considering a j frame for ccw

[Russ]

I am considering either a S&W 642 or a Ruger LCR in either a 38 plus p or 357 for CCW.

I would like to hear feedback on which gun and caliber you would buy and why you feel your choices is best.

I currently have a Beretta Nano which I really like but I have had 4/550 FTE.

I expect 100% reliable rate in a CCW and neither my Kahr or Beretta have been able to achieve that rate. I am beginning to think it may be unrealistic to have a small semi auto reach perfection and that is why I am thinking about a revolver for CCW. I own a Ruger single six from ny childhood and it has never failed in the 36 years I have owned the gun.

Thanks

Russ

[Barth]

S&W M642 38 1 7/8 No Lock Stainless - Bud's $375
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=70713
Short Barrel FBI Protocol test results from snub nose revolver -
http://www.speer-ammo.com/products/bullet_tests.htm
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/images/Smith%20642.JPGhttp://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/large/493/493508.jpg

[Bawanna]

I hate to bad mouth any gun and with all the glowing reviews I've read about the LCR I figure there has to be something wrong with me. I rented one to try out with my son who was convinced he wanted one real bad.

I was happy to give it back, it blasted me in the face every shot, felt like my trigger finger was smacked with a ball peen hammer every shot and I couldn't hit anything consistently even at 4 or 5 yards. I intend to try it again as I figure I must have just gotten a really bad one to rent.

I've had no such issues with any of the multitude of J frame options and get along with them fine. For myself I'd stick with 38's and while I always used to prefer to get a 357 for both options I think I'd get a 38 since I would doubtful ever shoot 357 through it. +P 38's would be far as I'd ever go in that small package.

I still have my first new store bought Ruger Single Six as well. Still going strong and looking fine after over 40+ years too.

[Barth]

If pocket carry is your intent, as it appears by the gun options, air weights are the way to go.
But if belt carry is your game?
Then an all stainless steel 357 is in order.
My pocket gun is an 11.1 oz S&W 342 ti J-Frame 38 +P.
Belt gun is a 25.0 oz S&W 640-1 J-Frame 357 Magnum (that I love).

The 640-1 is on my belt as I type - LOL!
Probably the most comfortable belt gun I've got!
https://www.t-mobilepictures.com/myalbum/photos/photo29/4e/18/3c5b3cc39f1f__1321654061000.jpg

[Russ]

Ti
If pocket carry is your intent, as it appears by the gun options, air weights are the way to go.
But if belt carry is your game?
Then an all stainless steel 357 is in order.
My pocket gun is an 11.1 oz S&W 342 ti J-Frame 38 +P.
Belt gun is a 25.0 oz S&W 640-1 J-Frame 357 Magnum (that I love).

The 640-1 is on my belt as I type - LOL!
Probably the most comfortable belt gun I've got!
https://www.t-mobilepictures.com/myalbum/photos/photo29/4e/18/3c5b3cc39f1f__1321654061000.jpg

Barth

I would pocket conceal in dress pants. The Nano is pushing it for weight at 23 oz loaded. If I go revolver I would like to get it down around 18 oz max loaded. It really makes a big differene 18 vs 23 oz for all day pocket carry.

Russ

[Thunder71]

I have the 642 and it's a great gun. A little larger than my PM9 but very thin. You'll never have a failure to feed or failure to eject with a revolver. :D

It's my car gun at the moment as I enjoy carrying my Kahrs more. Granted all I have for a holster for the snubbie is a pocket holster and Smartcarry.

I debated between the 642 and LCR for months. Neither are range guns so I went with the smaller of the two, no regrets.

Sent using Tapatalk, thanks for supporting it on this site.

[onegun]

Everyone should own a J frame, just on general principle. It seems like I have owned one, or more, forever. However, I am one of the people that do not like them as a primary EDC. I have owned my current one
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t201/IkenI_photo/640-1001.jpg
for a long time and have also owned several of the lightweight ones. For me, they are a backup gun to my primary piece. Having said that, I would much prefer to have a P9, PM9, CW9, or Nano for that role. (Note I did not mention .380) All of the small autos are easier to shoot, have more firepower, and are more accurate than the little 5 shot revolver. I have shot a friends Ruger LCR and found it to be the same as the little Smiths. The smallest gun I would carry as a primary is the size of the K9 or P9. Usually mine is a SIG P239 IWB or a SIG P220 Carry IWB, backed by the P9 or the Smith 640-1 above. Maybe my Nano will also be a backup when it gets back from Beretta and proves itself reliable.

They are great little last chance guns (and I do like Speer GDHP) but they are not an ideal primary CCW (for me).

[jocko]

if u buy a air weight j frame u will never ever reret that purchase. No doubt the nicest looking snubbie out there and indeed one that will go bang every time.

[340pd]

I am sorry you are having issues with your semi auto's. Ultra compacts can be fussy. Not the least of which can be the individual shooter. I don't know that I would be that excited about 4/550 round failure. It should be faster to clear a jam than reload a cylinder of 38's.

Revolvers can also have issues. Bullet creep among them. Five rounds vs. 7. More difficulty reloading. Better sights on the semi. You may want to research a slightly larger semi for better reliability.

Overall, the revolver will have much fewer issues when you put in all the factors into play.

I do carry a S&W 340pd from time to time. Light weight and a good shooter but, for me, my Kahr is far more accurate at 30' than my snubbie. That is why my PM9 has taken the primary position in my personal carry lineup.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t320/gnystrom_photos/340pd.jpg

[Barth]

Ti

Barth

I would pocket conceal in dress pants. The Nano is pushing it for weight at 23 oz loaded. If I go revolver I would like to get it down around 18 oz max loaded. It really makes a big differene 18 vs 23 oz for all day pocket carry.

Russ

I'm right there with you.
My 342 with Hogue Bantams weighs 11.1 empty and 13.5
loaded with 135 gr SB bullets.

The 642 would be about 15.0 empty, 17.4 loaded.
Maybe .5 oz less with Bantem grips?

BTW I've got XS Big Dots on the nose of both J-Frames.
Super fast target acquisition.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31Akm7RRbTL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

[ltxi]

I hate to bad mouth any gun and with all the glowing reviews I've read about the LCR I figure there has to be something wrong with me. I rented one to try out with my son who was convinced he wanted one real bad.

I was happy to give it back, it blasted me in the face every shot, felt like my trigger finger was smacked with a ball peen hammer every shot and I couldn't hit anything consistently even at 4 or 5 yards. I intend to try it again as I figure I must have just gotten a really bad one to rent.

I've had no such issues with any of the multitude of J frame options and get along with them fine. For myself I'd stick with 38's and while I always used to prefer to get a 357 for both options I think I'd get a 38 since I would doubtful ever shoot 357 through it. +P 38's would be far as I'd ever go in that small package.

I still have my first new store bought Ruger Single Six as well. Still going strong and looking fine after over 40+ years too.

I completely agree....get a J-Frame Smith in whatever variation best suits you purpose....and there ane many. Imo, the LCR is a rare Ruger misstep...a marketing answer to a question no one ever asked. Ruger makes excellent guns. I think I have maybe ten at the moment, including the Super Single Six I bought new in late '70 or early '71. Just had to have both cylinders, Bawanna.

[mr surveyor]

I have spent many years searching for the "right" small framed revolver for my needs, and went through several just in the last 10 years. The last one weeded out of the running was the S&W Airweight 637 (.38 spl). Sure it carried well, and didn't suffer much from the elements (my revo is my daily "field gun", and work conditions are whatever nature dishes out), but I just could not shoot it well. Might get one shot COM on a target, but quick follow ups were much less than desireable. Last Fall one of my buddies expressed a desire for it at the same time my ffl buddy had a Ruger SP101 in .357 mag on consignment. Being on a mission for the Holy Grail of surveyor's sidearms, I decided what the heck. I don't pocket carry a handgun, especially the one I need quick access too, and a few extra ounces on my waist band (actually I carry the SP in a LoboLeather high ride pancake OWB under a cover shirt) can be offset by me losing 10-15 pounds of "me". I've fallen in love with the solid stainless construction and total ease of detail stripping for complete cleaning, and the accuracy for me is a huge improvement over the lightweights. The stainless SP101 handles hot .357 mag loads much better than the Airweight could ever handle .38+p rounds.

And, this one was the handgun that forced me over the edge to roll my own. I started (basic) reloading the .357 mag about 3-4 months after getting the SP101. Although I do still have a "few" other handguns, the SP101 is my daily workhorse, and a CW9 is my "leisure carry".

surv

oh, just to add, the solid steel Smiths and Colts (if you can score one) are fine handguns as well, although I ain't gonna take off the side plate of one to detail clean.

[JFootin]

S&W M642 38 1 7/8 No Lock Stainless - Bud's $375
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=70713
Short Barrel FBI Protocol test results from snub nose revolver -
http://www.speer-ammo.com/products/bullet_tests.htm
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/images/Smith%20642.JPGhttp://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/large/493/493508.jpg

+1 on the gun and the deal at Bud's. Get a trigger job done on it and you will be very pleased!

[Bawanna]

I completely agree....get a J-Frame Smith in whatever variation best suits you purpose....and there ane many. Imo, the LCR is a rare Ruger misstep...a marketing answer to a question no one ever asked. Ruger makes excellent guns. I think I have maybe ten at the moment, including the Super Single Six I bought new in late '70 or early '71. Just had to have both cylinders, Bawanna.

I got both cylinders with mine too. The magnum 22 is fun to play with sometimes.
I bought mine right about that same time at a Ernst hardware store, you get yours there too?
I love Ruger revolvers and have several also. Never did click too go with their autos but they work well. Many swear by them, just didn't gel with me.

[TheTman]

I prefer ole humback, the 638 or 649, the latter shoots .357 magnum and is a tad is heavier. I like the option of being able to shoot single action that the shrouded hammer affords, yet doesn't stick out much to get caught up in clothing.
.http://kartalk.pccomps.com/sw649.jpg

[bonjorno2]

Like mentioned before j frame is great for pocket carry, 342 next to my sig p238, j frame is also supporting the xs big dot as previously mentioned.

http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac309/bonjorno2/1324260725.jpg

[Scoundrel]

Interesting that nobody has even mentioned a Rhino. What are your thoughts on those?

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd222/505Erich/Handguns/17dec10Rhino004.jpg

[Armybrat]

I prefer ole humback, the 638 or 649, the latter shoots .357 magnum and is a tad is heavier. I like the option of being able to shoot single action that the shrouded hammer affords, yet doesn't stick out much to get caught up in clothing.
.http://kartalk.pccomps.com/sw649.jpg

I keep my Model 38 Airweight in the bedside table:

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w349/ScoPro/SWrevolver002.jpg

And still love to shoot the first Ruger I bought new in 1960...

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w349/ScoPro/Guns022.jpg

[jeepster09]

Interesting that nobody has even mentioned a Rhino. What are your thoughts on those?

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd222/505Erich/Handguns/17dec10Rhino004.jpg


I had one and sold it. Many failure to fires and ZERO customer service. They don'tanswer phone or e-mail. I finally did get a holdof them and they just whined that they only had staff of 20 and were overwhelmed. Great gun when it worked, no recoil and accurate.


http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/IMG_1005.jpg

[jeepster09]

I highly reccomend a J frame. I would say I switch between my 640 357 and my 360PD. Both guns are magnaported and have trigger jobs and XS Big dot sights. I prefer the 360PD because of light weight, you don't even know you have it with you and the magnaporting tames 357 recoil. I also use BLAZER hollowpoint Aluminum ammo for light weight.

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/IMG_1253.jpg


http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/IMG_1262.jpg


http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/IMG_0974.jpg

[Scoundrel]

I had one and sold it. Many failure to fires and ZERO customer service. They don'tanswer phone or e-mail. I finally did get a holdof them and they just whined that they only had staff of 20 and were overwhelmed. Great gun when it worked, no recoil and accurate.


Many failures to fire in a centerfire revolver? Whoah.

Coupled with poor customer service, small company, and overwhelmed (presumably because of all of the issues with their guns)?

OK, that's good enough for me. 'nuff said. Thanks!

[Bawanna]

I keep my Model 38 Airweight in the bedside table:

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w349/ScoPro/SWrevolver002.jpg

And still love to shoot the first Ruger I bought new in 1960...

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w349/ScoPro/Guns022.jpg

Wow, that's an old 3 screw too. Did you send it in for the transfer bar conversion or is it still unmessed with?

[CJB]

Happy with my Ruger SP101 in .38 3" bbl... lots of shots thru that, smooth as glass.
Bigger than a J frame tho... but not really much.

[ltxi]

I got both cylinders with mine too. The magnum 22 is fun to play with sometimes.
I bought mine right about that same time at a Ernst hardware store, you get yours there too?
I love Ruger revolvers and have several also. Never did click too go with their autos but they work well. Many swear by them, just didn't gel with me.

Bought mine in a gun store in Sacramento, where I was living at the time. Also bought a .357 Blackhawk from them right about the same time. My first new, personal, handguns. Still have and treasure both. I also still have the Hunter gun leather I bought along with them...although the drop loop cartridge belt doesn't exactly fit me well (at all) anymore.

[ltxi]

Happy with my Ruger SP101 in .38 3" bbl... lots of shots thru that, smooth as glass.
Bigger than a J frame tho... but not really much.

Old Colt "Detective Special" size. Fits in the same, my old, Colt snub holsters.

[Russ]

Everyone:

I had no idea a J Frame question would take us all down memory lane.

Russ

[TriggerMan]

I hate to bad mouth any gun and with all the glowing reviews I've read about the LCR I figure there has to be something wrong with me. I rented one to try out with my son who was convinced he wanted one real bad.

I was happy to give it back, it blasted me in the face every shot, felt like my trigger finger was smacked with a ball peen hammer every shot and I couldn't hit anything consistently even at 4 or 5 yards. I intend to try it again as I figure I must have just gotten a really bad one to rent.

I've had no such issues with any of the multitude of J frame options and get along with them fine. For myself I'd stick with 38's and while I always used to prefer to get a 357 for both options I think I'd get a 38 since I would doubtful ever shoot 357 through it. +P 38's would be far as I'd ever go in that small package.

I still have my first new store bought Ruger Single Six as well. Still going strong and looking fine after over 40+ years too.I've read the Ruger trigger is superior to the comparable Smith.

[Bawanna]

I've read the Ruger trigger is superior to the comparable Smith.

I read that too and was anxious to shoot it. It may have been a bad one. It was painful, major trigger slap and rough and hard too.

From all I've read I suspect I should withhold judgement until I sample another one. Only sharing my 1 box experience. Fact is I only shot 10 and didn't want to shoot it anymore. My son really wanted to love it and suffered through the other 40.

[TriggerMan]

What can I expect from a trigger job on a J frame? The last one I fondled had a 12-14 # pull...and, of course, it was a long pull. Typical cost of a trigger job? Thanks

[340pd]

I did a little work on my 640. Trigger jobs on a J frame are very tricky. Light springs produce light primer strikes. Polishing helps, but the heavy trigger is what it is. If you do one, get a great smith and make sure it has a long firing pin installed in it. I pulled out the light weight springs and opted for 100% reliability. I figured in a needed situation one or two pounds of trigger pull weight would not make a difference. I did not want to hear a "click".

[Armybrat]

Wow, that's an old 3 screw too. Did you send it in for the transfer bar conversion or is it still unmessed with?

Never had it converted. :)

Neither was it's big brother, the Blackhawk .357 I bought new in 1968...

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w349/ScoPro/guns003.jpg

[JFootin]

What can I expect from a trigger job on a J frame? The last one I fondled had a 12-14 # pull...and, of course, it was a long pull. Typical cost of a trigger job? Thanks

I just bought a J frame and I'm going to send it to Ahlman's (http://www.ahlmans.com/) in MN. Very large store with many gunsmiths and a great reputation. They do trigger jobs for $70. Mike Ahlman says they can get the DA trigger down to about 7-8 lbs with positive firing (no light primer strikes).

[muggsy]

I'd go with the J frame S&W in .38 spcl. Less recoil, muzzle flash and it won't over penetrate. A pleasure to shoot.

[CJB]

Old Colt "Detective Special" size. Fits in the same, my old, Colt snub holsters.

Yup - thats what I got for it - one of the first IWB designs from back when, called a "Pistol Pocket" model 3 I think from Bianchi

[CJB]

I read that too and was anxious to shoot it. It may have been a bad one. It was painful, major trigger slap and rough and hard too.

Ohhh Bawanna... The 2nd knuckle on my right middle finger remembers a certain 2-1/2 inch model 29 that I owned, just about this time every year when the cold weather gets here... and the gun was not a bad one, and it got ported, and everyone who owned it, ended up owning it for about a month, then passing it on to its next victem....

Ruger does some silly stuff. For instance, they still finish the sides of most of their triggers in a way that makes a rather sharp and abrupt transition to the curved "finger" area. Well thats fine if you got a finger with no skin on it. Us hammy fisted blokes feel the rub from them things! Every Ruger I've had, except maybe that nice Super Blackhawk I once owned... I've had to pull out the trigger, round out the sharp edges, buff'em a little and reinstall. I think its part of the Ruger lore.... kind of like "paying the Harley Tax", except with Rugers.

[jeepster09]

I just bought a J frame and I'm going to send it to Ahlman's (http://www.ahlmans.com/) in MN. Very large store with many gunsmiths and a great reputation. They do trigger jobs for $70. Mike Ahlman says they can get the DA trigger down to about 7-8 lbs with positive firing (no light primer strikes).


They are great to deal with. I highly reccommend them. They have done all of my work.:)

[gb6491]

One quick thing about "J" frames, all current production models are built on the Magnum frame. It's a little bigger than the old guns, so if you are looking for the smallest form factor in a .38 the old guns are the way to go.
Stainless steel model 60 (Magnum frame). Model 36 square butt (older frame)
http://i48.tinypic.com/2h83ek5.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/15xwh2h.jpg
Regards,
Greg

[Armybrat]

So is the Model 60 magnum frame about the same as a Ruger SP101?

[hss.strat]

I just picked up a Taurus 85 (S&W Chief's Special knockoff) for $100 off a local guy. The DA is horribly heavy. There is a respring kit in the mail for it right now, so we'll see how much work I can do.

Being raised on semi-auto's I never cared for the big round cylinder and odd grip of a revolver. In principle anyway, as I'd only ever held a few and shot even less. But hell, I'll buy anything that works for $100 and boy was I surprised. On the first trip to the range I was pretty much convinced that I was going to have my hand burned by venting gases around the cylinder, that the gun would explode or that I would instantly grow a big 70's 'stache from the shear retro-ness of it all. Once I got over having to use way more finger in the trigger than I should, and got a feeling for staging the trigger I was shocked with the accuracy I was getting out of the tiny barrel. Not to mention that recoil was non-existant. Granted, I did get one of the older all steel models. I was very happy with my purchase. And wouldn't you know it, this little 5 shot wheel gun has actually replaced my K9 as an EDC... Well, only until my new K9 holster gets here, but still not a bad purchase.

[JFootin]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JFootin http://kahrtalk.com/images/tigra/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?p=119932#post119932)
I just bought a J frame and I'm going to send it to Ahlman's (http://www.ahlmans.com/) in MN. Very large store with many gunsmiths and a great reputation. They do trigger jobs for $70. Mike Ahlman says they can get the DA trigger down to about 7-8 lbs with positive firing (no light primer strikes).


They are great to deal with. I highly reccommend them. They have done all of my work.:)

I think your business alone covers their overhead!

The only thing I don't like is trying to communicate with Mike Ahlman by email about some custom work I want done. He doesn't really put any effort into it and sends little one sentence replies that ignore most of my questions. If I send the gun to them and then he decides to jack up the price he told me, I'm going to be mad.

[Barth]

For the m 642 is the best deal.
If money is no object? Then you may want to consider
a used 342 ti ( if you can find one) or a S&W 340.

They are considerably more expensive.
But the titanium guns are about three oz lighter.
I wouldn't dare fire a 357 out of a 340PD.
But 38 +P in the 11/12 oz gun is like a 357 Magnum in 25 oz gun to me.

I personally believe the pre-lock 342 ti is the very best J-frame pocket pistol.
Got mine for $577 when they were first released.
I've seen them for as much as $800 NIB on the net.

With a trigger job and XS Big Dot front sight - Oh My....
Mine shoots dead on POA with Speer SB 135 gr +P at close range.

[Russ]

For the m 642 is the best deal.
If money is no object? Then you may want to consider
a used 342 ti ( if you can find one) or a S&W 340.

They are considerably more expensive.
But the titanium guns are about three oz lighter.
I wouldn't dare fire a 357 out of a 340PD.
But 38 +P in the 11/12 oz gun is like a 357 Magnum in 25 oz gun to me.

I personally believe the pre-lock 342 ti is the very best J-frame pocket pistol.
Got mine for $577 when they were first released.
I've seen them for as much as $800 NIB on the net.

With a trigger job and XS Big Dot front sight - Oh My....
Mine shoots dead on POA with Speer SB 135 gr +P at close range.


Barth:

The titanium guns are very nice. I found a local gun dealer selling new S&W 642 for $357. You did well getting your S&W 342 ti for $577. Buds guns have some S&W titanium over $900.

I really appreciate everyone's help. I think if I do get a J Frame I will go for the S&W 642 for $357.

I have fired 550 rounds through my Nano with 4 FTE. When I get my gun back from Beretta if I can fire another 500 rounds with zero FTE it will be my CCW. If it produces a FTE I will send it back to Beretta demanding a refund which I think they will honor based on another Nano owner post I read. The Nano owner claims Beretta will refund his money if they can't fix the FTE issue after the second attempt.

I really hope I don't need to ask for a refund because I like the Nano and I still believe if the FTE issue is fixed the gun will be an excellent value at $429. It really is built very well and is amazingly accurate especially for a pocket gun. However, the whole reason I own a pocket gun is for CCW and unlike a range gun a CCW must be 100% reliable and a revolver may be the only CCW that can provide that dependability I expect in a CCW.

I read from Triggerman he felt the Nano extractor was easy to move and I agree. If you lock the slid open you can move the extractor with very little effort with your finger. I compared it against my 45 caliber XD and there was a noticeable difference. I am not an expert on the mechanics of a Semi auto and possibly the extractor for a 45 needs to be stiffer than a 9mm but the difference is very noticeable. I just hope Beretta is actually reading the posts on their forum. It really would be unfortunate if the extractor is all that is preventing the Nano form being a great CCW.

My fingers are crossed

Russ

[jocko]

I had a prelock 342, and what an idiot I sold it on line and eviidently sold it to damn cheap for when I placed the add I must have had a dozen people wanting it. Not sure if it was because of the pre lock thing or the price, probably both. Dumb mistake on my part. Nice shooter My 342 had a pair of CT grips on it and I still have in my garage a 40 shot 3" group at 12 yards with those ct grips. Something that I could never had done with straight sights. (Indoor range on a rest)

Beretta will get the nano right if the extractor area is the issue. Seems as much as in house testing these companies do, it is not the same as John Q citizen shooting it like he stole it. Sad thing is though what bad publcity is out there is probably less than 1% like most kahrs issues were to but they can cause 50% of public confidence damage, and then take into account that SOME PEOPLE SHOULD NOT OWN SMALL ASS GUNS.
and if ur new to the internet, just remember I can post on any gun forum (exept glock talk, those bastards won't let me on) any damn thing I want about issues with any gun, whehter they be true or not. And then a newbie comes on looking for information about a certain gun that he might be interested in and hits on this sh-t asnd it drives him somewhere else. If u like it, if u want it buy the fokker and just shoot it, if the gun gives issues, Beretta, Smith, Ruger, Kahr, Sig, THEY WILL MAKE IT RIGHT. I just bought son for Christmas an Ipad, it is back at the factory now for warranty. Just the nature of the beast. I know it is a good product, we just got one the day some installercaught his wife with the janitor in the maintenance shed, get lubed!!!!

[jocko]

wow russ:I have fired 550 rounds through my Nano with 4 FTE. When I get my gun back from Beretta if I can fire another 500 rounds with zero FTE it will be my CCW. If it produces a FTE I will send it back to Beretta demanding a refund which I think they will honor based on another Nano owner post I read. The Nano owner claims Beretta will refund his money if they can't fix the FTE issue after the second attempt

I would not bank alot of what another owner posted about that refund thing. They are under no obligation to do anything but fix the gun. That certainbly to my knowledge has never been a Beretta policy, I would bet the second time back will produce results. If they can't fixt that partrucular gun they like kahr have the option of replacing the gun (which makes sense)..

Not sure I would panic if I had one FTE in the next 500 rounds without throughaly analysising what possable could have been the issuue. beretta cannot make a bad round go bang. I know I know we never make shooting errors either, but again one round could be shooter error,. It is very hard for any gun maker to reporduce a bad round issue or shooter error issues. Bad extractor system is another topic. If they target in on that they will get it right.

But I guess my point from the git go with thge intro oif the NANO was to wait awhile to see how the owners do with it, not professionally trained shooters etc. They are not the ones who put food in the table for the Beretta employees, It is u and I.. A polsitve attitude when you get the nano back goes a long way towards success to.:third:

[jeepster09]

For the m 642 is the best deal.
If money is no object? Then you may want to consider
a used 342 ti ( if you can find one) or a S&W 340.

They are considerably more expensive.
But the titanium guns are about three oz lighter.
I wouldn't dare fire a 357 out of a 340PD.
But 38 +P in the 11/12 oz gun is like a 357 Magnum in 25 oz gun to me.

I personally believe the pre-lock 342 ti is the very best J-frame pocket pistol.
Got mine for $577 when they were first released.
I've seen them for as much as $800 NIB on the net.

With a trigger job and XS Big Dot front sight - Oh My....
Mine shoots dead on POA with Speer SB 135 gr +P at close range.


Wow......I have no problem firing 357's out of my 360 PD, titanium light weight.....must be because of the magnaporting.

[onegun]

Russ, I agree with Jocko:D

When mine gets back from Accokeek I'll shoot the heck out of it and if it doesn't work right back it will go. In the meantime I'm cool just shooting my P9 and SIGs (like I stole 'em;))

[Lobo_79]

I am considering either a S&W 642 or a Ruger LCR in either a 38 plus p or 357 for CCW.

I would like to hear feedback on which gun and caliber you would buy and why you feel your choices is best...

I've owned several S&W J-frames. I also own a 431PD in .32H&R Mag. It has the advantage of 6 rounds over 5. My problem with this class of firearm is that their recoil can be brutal even with .38Spcl loads (in the .357 Mag). I like to shoot my carry guns a lot so I abandoned the S&W J-frame in favor of the Ruger SP101 in .357 Mag. It's a compromise in terms of its weight but it is very comfortable to shoot.
http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz154/Lobo_79/Ruger_SP101/L1000887.jpg

[jocko]

If I couldnot own a J frame I wouldown the Ruger sp models. Great guns , they just don''t bend my crank like a Smith J frame.

[ltxi]

What can I expect from a trigger job on a J frame? The last one I fondled had a 12-14 # pull...and, of course, it was a long pull. Typical cost of a trigger job? Thanks

Around 8 pounds with complete reliability....but don't let a hack try for that. Correct stoning/polish and spring balance can get critical down in that range. Don't really know about cost these days. I've long done my own Smith revolver and all 1911 work.

[Russ]

wow russ:I have fired 550 rounds through my Nano with 4 FTE. When I get my gun back from Beretta if I can fire another 500 rounds with zero FTE it will be my CCW. If it produces a FTE I will send it back to Beretta demanding a refund which I think they will honor based on another Nano owner post I read. The Nano owner claims Beretta will refund his money if they can't fix the FTE issue after the second attempt

I would not bank alot of what another owner posted about that refund thing. They are under no obligation to do anything but fix the gun. That certainbly to my knowledge has never been a Beretta policy, I would bet the second time back will produce results. If they can't fixt that partrucular gun they like kahr have the option of replacing the gun (which makes sense)..

Not sure I would panic if I had one FTE in the next 500 rounds without throughaly analysising what possable could have been the issuue. beretta cannot make a bad round go bang. I know I know we never make shooting errors either, but again one round could be shooter error,. It is very hard for any gun maker to reporduce a bad round issue or shooter error issues. Bad extractor system is another topic. If they target in on that they will get it right.

But I guess my point from the git go with thge intro oif the NANO was to wait awhile to see how the owners do with it, not professionally trained shooters etc. They are not the ones who put food in the table for the Beretta employees, It is u and I.. A polsitve attitude when you get the nano back goes a long way towards success to.:third:

Jocko

Thanks for the advise. I am not to proud to admit I am not the most skilled shooter and there can be an element of human error in my Kahr and Beretta saga. That is one reason for joining this forum. I am trying to learn as much as possible and I really appreciate everyone's wisdom. I will try and remain patient as Beretta makes it right. I feel for the contracted gunsmith Bolsa Gunsmith out of California they have got to hate these gun forums. I sent them a boat load of forum posts from Nano owners who may and I emphasize may know something about what the heck may be going on with these FTE. It really can get overwhelming the volume of differing opinions regarding just this one Nano issue.

Russ

[Barth]

Jocko

Thanks for the advise. I am not to proud to admit I am not the most skilled shooter and there can be an element of human error in my Kahr and Beretta saga. That is one reason for joining this forum. I am trying to learn as much as possible and I really appreciate everyone's wisdom. I will try and remain patient as Beretta makes it right. I feel for the contracted gunsmith Bolsa Gunsmith out of California they have got to hate these gun forums. I sent them a boat load of forum posts from Nano owners who may and I emphasize may know something about what the heck may be going on with these FTE. It really can get overwhelming the volume of differing opinions regarding just this one Nano issue.

Russ

I don't mean to be a stinker on new years eve. But - LOL!

Any spanking new design is going to have those proverbial growing pains.
Sig Sauer's P238, (I guess they bought the Colt Mustang design?),
has certainly had it's issues on first release.
Beretta is a large reputable company.
I'm sure they will work through these problems.

My recommendation is to stay patient and work with Beretta.
Things will work out in the end...

try to have a happy new years holiday

[jocko]

like some kahrs they don['t work out for an owner, best to peddle it and move on. I would treat a Nano the same way. Just to many other good guns out there to choose from..

[jocko]

I have a good friend who is a real bowhunter butnever a handgun shooter. Awhile back he bought a used PM9 and never knew jack sh-t about it opther thanthe price was good. I went over to his home when hge got it and showed him some things to do and to not todo. We went outside as he lives in the country and has has a 215 yard archer lane which we put on targets and walked up to about 10 yards. I had my trusty PM9 and he for the first time shot his used PM9. he outshot me terribly, just made me sick to my stomach.

His comment to me was, wow this is really a nice gun. I said yea, go fokk ur self *******..

[LMT42]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JFootin http://kahrtalk.com/images/tigra/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?p=119932#post119932)
I just bought a J frame and I'm going to send it to Ahlman's (http://www.ahlmans.com/) in MN. Very large store with many gunsmiths and a great reputation. They do trigger jobs for $70. Mike Ahlman says they can get the DA trigger down to about 7-8 lbs with positive firing (no light primer strikes).



I think your business alone covers their overhead!

The only thing I don't like is trying to communicate with Mike Ahlman by email about some custom work I want done. He doesn't really put any effort into it and sends little one sentence replies that ignore most of my questions. If I send the gun to them and then he decides to jack up the price he told me, I'm going to be mad.

Anyone considering a trigger job should consider the new drop in kit from Apex Tactical. It drops the pull from a stock 12lb to 9lb, is simple to install (they have a video to follow), and well worth the money.

I believe these have sold well since being introduced and I've not heard of any issues.

https://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid49.html

[kayl]

Anyone considering a trigger job should consider the new drop in kit from Apex Tactical. It drops the pull from a stock 12lb to 9lb, is simple to install (they have a video to follow), and well worth the money.

I believe these have sold well since being introduced and I've not heard of any issues.

https://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid49.html

I got one when they first came out and it is great! :)

[340pd]

Anyone considering a trigger job should consider the new drop in kit from Apex Tactical. It drops the pull from a stock 12lb to 9lb, is simple to install (they have a video to follow), and well worth the money.

I believe these have sold well since being introduced and I've not heard of any issues.

https://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid49.html

Apex does make good kits but they do NOT drop in all j frames. Some guns will need fitting by someone who really knows what they are doing. My Apex kit did not produce reliable ignition every time. Apex was very easy to work with and I returned most of the parts and we split the costs of what I kept and what I returned. They are a good company to do business with.

[muggsy]

I am considering either a S&W 642 or a Ruger LCR in either a 38 plus p or 357 for CCW.

I would like to hear feedback on which gun and caliber you would buy and why you feel your choices is best.

I currently have a Beretta Nano which I really like but I have had 4/550 FTE.

I expect 100% reliable rate in a CCW and neither my Kahr or Beretta have been able to achieve that rate. I am beginning to think it may be unrealistic to have a small semi auto reach perfection and that is why I am thinking about a revolver for CCW. I own a Ruger single six from ny childhood and it has never failed in the 36 years I have owned the gun.

Thanks

Russ

Russ,
If I was going J frame I'd go with the S&W. The only draw backs to a revolver is that you only have 5 shots and they are slow to reload. If I were carrying a J frame I'd also carry a bug for back-up. I'm currently carrying a CM9 IWB with a P3AT in pocket as a back up.

[340pd]

Better yet, carry the j frame as a BUG.

[JFootin]

I am looking at carrying my J-frame lefty AIWB (GutIWB?) using a low riding holster with a slight negative cant and a metal clip for easy on and off. The negative cant makes the grip lay horizontally just above my belt, and keeps the muzzle end inside my thigh for comfort when sitting. My middle aged (fat :p) belly expands above it, making any shirt drape in front of the gun with no printing.

BTW, has anyone noticed that the spell checker is turned off? A Christmas present for jocko?

[Gatordave]

Russ,

It looks like I am not the only person who floats back and forth between the Beretta and Kahr sites.....I told you before IF you do it the SW 642 is the way to go. Beware though a .38 spcl in a 2" barrel aluminum frame is a handfull. Makes your NANO feel like a .22.

Hang in there with the NANO...but if you want a wheel gun too try the 642CT nice grips for the gun and the laser is accurate....don't need no stinkin' sights.

[jocko]

I am looking at carrying my J-frame lefty AIWB (GutIWB?) using a low riding holster with a slight negative cant and a metal clip for easy on and off. The negative cant makes the grip lay horizontally just above my belt, and keeps the muzzle end inside my thigh for comfort when sitting. My middle aged (fat :p) belly expands above it, making any shirt drape in front of the gun with no printing.

BTW, has anyone noticed that the spell checker is turned off? A Christmas present for jocko?

wtf is that????:banplease:

[jeepster09]

Russ,

It looks like I am not the only person who floats back and forth between the Beretta and Kahr sites.....I told you before IF you do it the SW 642 is the way to go. Beware though a .38 spcl in a 2" barrel aluminum frame is a handfull. Makes your NANO feel like a .22.

Hang in there with the NANO...but if you want a wheel gun too try the 642CT nice grips for the gun and the laser is accurate....don't need no stinkin' sights.


SIMPLE FIX FOR THAT.....


http://www.magnaport.com/hgun.html

[les strat]

wtf is that????:banplease:

LOL jocko, I think it is appendix IWB maybe :nerd:

[JFootin]

wtf is that????:banplease:

Doesn't the spell checker bother you, popping up on almost every word? :behindsofa:

[LaP]

Coincidence? I decided to carry my S&W 642 the past two days.... going "Retro".

Now as I read all these posts, it reminds me why I like j-frames in the first place. Packed with Gold-Dot 135 +P ammo, riding in a Galco pocket holster, and sporting a Crimson Trace laser grip,.....What's not to like?

Maybe I should start researching my "need" for S&W .357 j-frame.
Afterall, my birthday is sometime this year.;)

[wyntrout]

Speer makes Short Barrel performance defense ammo designed specifically for the 2" barrels. They even make .22 magnum short barrel stuff for the tiny derringers now.

http://www.speer-ammo.com/products/short_brl.aspx

Wynn:)

[kayl]

Coincidence? I decided to carry my S&W 642 the past two days.... going "Retro".

Now as I read all these posts, it reminds me why I like j-frames in the first place. Packed with Gold-Dot 135 +P ammo, riding in a Galco pocket holster, and sporting a Crimson Trace laser grip,.....What's not to like?

Maybe I should start researching my "need" for S&W .357 j-frame.
Afterall, my birthday is sometime this year.;)

I haven't been carrying my 442 since I bought the CM9, but this thread inspired me to get the 442 out to the range and put 60 rounds through it :) Time to drop the 442 in a pocket again :)

[LaP]

I haven't been carrying my 442 since I bought the CM9, but this thread inspired me to get the 442 out to the range and put 60 rounds through it :) Time to drop the 442 in a pocket again :)

Drop that potent little pocket pardner in your jeans. :D

Mine's been walking around with me for the past week. No telling how long it'll stay there.