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View Full Version : Undercover LEO carrying in his waist, no holster?



Price
01-25-2010, 04:57 PM
I don't know how many of you have seen the show First 48 but I watch it from time to time. It is a show where cameras do a short documentary on real investigators in real cases. Anyway I just finished watching an episode where a veteran detective went undercover, he got all dressed up like a bum and put his service pistol ( a glock not sure which model) in his waist band in the small of his back. No holster just right in the waist band. I first will say I am prior military and have absolutely zero leo expirience. That said this stil seems very wrong to me. Maybe its for tv or something I dont know but I was just wondering if any of you that may have leo expirience would ever do this or have seen it done ro anything like that. I try no to be too critical when watching tv or movies on these subjects but this seems very wrong to me. Am I being too critical?

jeep45238
01-25-2010, 05:09 PM
Ask the cops you know when the last time they arrested a criminal with a gun that had a holster?

If you're going undercover, a holster will be a dead give away. An old cop trick was to wrap rubberbands around the grip, which would keep it in place in yourr pants, but not give yourself away.

Bawanna
01-25-2010, 05:35 PM
Ask the cops you know when the last time they arrested a criminal with a gun that had a holster?

If you're going undercover, a holster will be a dead give away. An old cop trick was to wrap rubberbands around the grip, which would keep it in place in yourr pants, but not give yourself away.

This is pretty much true. That being said, I'm a civilian employee but our guys never go without a holster of some sort. We're just a small town and a long way from California so maybe in the future we'll have to look at the rubber band trick.
Keep in mind it's only television and has no connection to reality. I watch CSI regularly (mostly to watch the gals looking for clues outside with their flashlights at high noon but with cleavage comparable to the grand canyon. Jocko I know "pervert".) I don't believe there a crime lab like theirs anywhere in the world.

jeep45238
01-25-2010, 05:55 PM
Rubber bands is a 1970's trick ;)

Price
01-25-2010, 06:24 PM
Well it is tv but its not one of those crime dramas its an actual detective that cameras follow around while he investigates a murder. I get the idea of blending in if he was trying to look like a criminal but he was dressed up like a bum sitting on the ground against a building observing an area. So I think maybe this wasnt the best move, he also pulled his pistol out a couple times on some drug addicts wtih a needle and he was waving it around all over the place with one hand like an 80s cop movie so maybe this guy just plays it up for the documentary crew cameras.

CeltKnight
01-26-2010, 03:32 PM
A friend of mine worked undercover a lot during his career. He seldom used a holster "because bad guys never use one" and he didn't want to get "made." The habit just carried over into real life.

When I first got into law enforcement back in the late '80s it was not at all uncommon to see off duty LEOs carrying with their piece just stuck in their waistbands. IWB holsters can get really uncomfortable in this subtropical climate here on the Gulf. I carried that way myself for several years off duty, and on low profile assignments, and once UC ... then I wisened up. Rather we got a new policy that forbade carrying w/o a holster. Nothing like the phrase "diciplinary action" and "review of one's fitness to be a police officer" to change one's paradigm, eh? :eek:

It's not necissarily dumb to carry w/o one .. if you know what you're doing. I had an instructor demo to me how he could carry a J-frame S&W tucked into his waistband (appendix style) and do jumping jacks without it loosening (... but, yeah, there's always that what if, and that ONE time, isnt' there?). I think a holster is always best, though.

That said, toting a Glock w/o a holster and with a round chambered might not be the smartest thing ever done. Safety on the trigger and all that. Back when my backup/offduty piece was a Glock 26 I ... um ... might have partaken of such foolishness a time or two. But now ... um ... no, I'm older and I'll take a holster, thank you. ;)

PETE14
02-05-2010, 09:39 AM
I bought a $85 holster and thought it was the right thing to do so i didn't Plaxico myself but I recently bought a soft armor holster that is much thinner and way more comfortable and very safe. It has a rubbery type finish and when I draw will always remain in my pants. I am going to start using it all of the time. It only cost $10-12 if I remember right.

jocko
02-25-2010, 04:31 PM
when making films such as we see on tV supposably depicint real life stuff, I have no doubt some of the LEO's dress to impress. It's the movies, remember that. There seems to be so many inside waist band great rigs around that I would think one would not have to carry "bareback". or broke back?????

jeepster09
03-10-2010, 04:03 PM
when making films such as we see on tV supposably depicint real life stuff, I have no doubt some of the LEO's dress to impress. It's the movies, remember that. There seems to be so many inside waist band great rigs around that I would think one would not have to carry "bareback". or broke back?????

As a former LEO I always used a holster :), like said earlier to many good ones not to.:eek:

CCcop
03-21-2010, 12:40 AM
New to the forum but thought I'd post on this topic first.

I'm a 15 year service LEO. Most of that, including current assignment, has been plane clothes narc or uc work. Most often I carry without a holster inside the pants. I have used rubber bands as mentioned or tire tubes to keep the gun from slipping down my pants.

The requirements of this type of work are far different than most. You may have a great $150 plus holster but if you back me up on a deal, you look like a cop and I can't have that. It's not that the bad guys don't want you to have guns, they expect them. It's just they want them to be guns they see alot on the street carried the way they see them. A nice holster is not that. Neither are those nice cop belts we often use to secure that holster. But that's another topic.

When I'm in the office on paperwork I often find that my chair or leg position cause problems with most holsters. Easier to slide the pistol around for comfort. Readjust when you get up to leave.

I carry a Glock 30, Glock 22, Kahr pm 45, and a J frame smith this way. Don't get me wrong, a holster is nice and probably the safest and only way some people should go. But for those with the experience, eye for safety, and necessity dictated by the job; no holster is a viable option.

Anyway, that's my little 2 pennies worth of input. Nice to be hear.

Vinikahr
03-21-2010, 12:48 AM
Welcome to the forum and thanks for sharing!

CCcop
03-23-2010, 10:58 PM
Good lord! I should not type on ambien. Spelling, grammar, and proper word usage severely suffer!

jbaker
03-23-2010, 11:11 PM
Good lord! I should not type on ambien. Spelling, grammar, and proper word usage severely suffer!
i didn't notice anyhting , i read it just fine, what does that say;)

jlottmc
04-09-2010, 08:26 AM
I go either way on this, I used to say not without mt holster, but then gave my good one for my 357 to my mother in law. I don't use one for that, and only about half the time do I use one with my 380, or anything but my 1911. The 1911 is ALWAYS in a holster.

Roadblock
05-25-2010, 09:46 AM
Good friend of mine is a 30 year detective. He said he has never carried without a holster, even undercover.

He also said he has busted plenty of homeboys with holsters. He was telling me this one time he busted this 17 year old kid a GLOCK 19 in a Milt Sparks holster snagging off his ass. He said the gun actual popped out of his waist band, still attached to his belt, flipped upside down and was hanging outside of his pants when he was given chase.

Threw questioning and checking he found the gun to be stolen but the holster was not the gun owners, the kid had bought it himself so he wouldnt shoot himself.

jlottmc
05-25-2010, 10:24 AM
Well truth be told the BG's are smarter than we generally give them credit for. I knew a kid that had stolen a G17, and had it in an old school clamshell holster that he carried about 1 o'clock. At least he had enough forethought to holster that. I still carry about half the time with out a holster, except for the 1911, though I find that I tend to gravitate towards holsters in cycles.

GregD
05-25-2010, 10:40 AM
I remember carrying a Colt 1911 (detectives), condition one, shoved in the waist band of my Sansbelts, back in the early 70's . --------Sweet memories -------- LOL

I might add, that we also had a leather slapper shoved in the waistband, the flat side to get their attention and the edge to knock'em down. Policing was less complicated back then.

jlottmc
05-25-2010, 11:16 AM
Ahhh yes back in the days when one could role through the ware house district at dark stupid, see some one and say something like "There's only two kinds of people out at this time. The good guys and the bad guys, I'm a good guy and I don't recognize you, guess that pretty much narrows it down (as he puts the cuffs on)." There have been people arrested just like that and for that reason, nothing too suspicious just out too late.

pappy42
01-28-2011, 02:05 PM
25 years working plain wrapper. When I was younger and thinner, I would carry IWB sans holster and always regretted it. Carried in a boot top, sans holster and got big chunks of skin worn off. Wound up using ankle holsters and belly bands for deep cover.

If holster spells LEO, then my bad guys missed that class. All of the SOB carry folks must have never driven a Crown Vic or any vehicles made in the 60's and 70's.

Toward the end of my career, I looked mature enough to get away with concealing in a Depends adult diaper. If you want see a mope get his hands off of you fast; watch when it dawns on him that his pat/grope may be handling a guy with incontinence problems.

It's almost as funny as asking the rookie if he/she wants to have ribs for lunch right after the first post mortem exam.

deuce
01-28-2011, 06:19 PM
Ohio makes it an easy decision, if you carry it has to be holstered.

kahrking
03-10-2011, 10:57 PM
All the guys at one of my local gun shop carry thier Glocks between thier belt and jeans with no holster, belt covers the trigger. I think its kinda crazy but he said he has been carring that way for the last almost 20yrs day in, day out.

MikeyKahr
03-10-2011, 11:34 PM
All the guys at one of my local gun shop carry thier Glocks between thier belt and jeans with no holster, belt covers the trigger. I think its kinda crazy but he said he has been carring that way for the last almost 20yrs day in, day out.

I'm with you, kahrking. Definitely crazy. I don't care if they have done it 20 years or 50 years, all it takes is one mistake for serious consequences. Welcome to the Kahr party, looks like you've got quite a few great "entrance passes".

kahrking
03-10-2011, 11:56 PM
I'm with you, kahrking. Definitely crazy. I don't care if they have done it 20 years or 50 years, all it takes is one mistake for serious consequences. Welcome to the Kahr party, looks like you've got quite a few great "entrance passes".


Glad to join the party.

jocko
03-11-2011, 05:20 AM
All the guys at one of my local gun shop carry thier Glocks between thier belt and jeans with no holster, belt covers the trigger. I think its kinda crazy but he said he has been carring that way for the last almost 20yrs day in, day out.

most of them now speak with a very very HIGH PITCH voice:p

skater4790
03-11-2011, 06:17 AM
I worked 20 years in the NYPD and most of that time I worked plainclothes. Most officers who work plainclothes wear holsters because you are not doing deep undercover work like someone who works in Narcotics or Organized Crime. These officers (Narcotics and OCCB) most of the time do not use holster or a department issued weapons because sometimes they are searched by the drug dealers and if the dealers see a holster and a copís gun (department issued weapon) it can cause them their lives. The Sergeant on First 48 hours show didnít have to go undercover because they have special unit that can perform these operations and are better trained. I think he just wanted to show off for the show. I think in the show the Sergeant goes home and tells his wife I have to go undercover and risk my life baby. Like he doesnít have a choice, heís a Sergeant, tell someone else to do it (BS).

jlottmc
03-12-2011, 08:05 AM
All the guys at one of my local gun shop carry thier Glocks between thier belt and jeans with no holster, belt covers the trigger. I think its kinda crazy but he said he has been carring that way for the last almost 20yrs day in, day out.

That is known as Mexican Carry. It is actually about as secure as a Yaqui slide holster, more so if you crank that belt down. I have and do carry that way on occasion. If you really want to be freaked out by a "holster" then google the OSS string holster. That is a method for carrying a 1911 with a holster made from a piece of string. If memory serves, you take about an 8" piece of string, tie it so that it's a loop, then put your belt over it so that you know have two smaller loops. The pistol goes in the top, and through the bottom like a rod connector. It was supposed to have worked well enough, with of course the added benefit of being able to ditch both weapon and "holster" quickly. I tried it once, and just didn't cotton to it. Maybe with a shorter string, made from 550 cord, and a non-1911 pistol, I would consider it it a pinch, maybe.

LSP972
04-07-2011, 07:00 AM
Mexican carry (IWB without a holster) has been around as long as firearms. No, its not a good idea. But with certain caveats, it isn't any more "dangerous" than any other activity involving handguns.

I'm a retired LEO; I carried professionally for 30 years. I continue to carry daily under the auspices of HR 218. I am a firm believer in proper holsters, etc. That said, I have (and still do) carry mexican on occasion. The reasons are detailed and beyond the scope of this post, but my point is that many knowledgeable folks "do" mexican carry for one reason or another.

The Kahr pistols are ideal for this. A real danger when carrying mexican is activating the trigger when sticking the pistol in your waistband. The long stroke of the Kahr trigger, similar to a DA revolver, leaves less opportunity to shoot oneself in the thigh or ass. You still must be careful, though...;)

BTW, the rubber band "trick" was used on revolvers. I date back to those days; the method was to wrap a couple of #64 bands around the grip frame just below the recoil shoulder. This kept the revolver from slipping down inside one's pants. It didn't always work, because the bulge of the cylinder sometimes "stretched" the trousers enough to let the gun slip through.

I really don't see how this would work (or even be necessary) with a semi-auto. Aside from probably interfering with the magazine release, it seems to me it would just be in the way...

.

DeaconKC
02-07-2012, 08:47 PM
Another old trick was to take a loop of string run it through your belt where it hung over both sides and then run the gun through both loops, It actually works pretty well and disappears instantly. Also, yeah, the holster is usually a dead give away you're a LEO.

jlottmc
02-08-2012, 09:36 AM
Deacon, wasn't that pioneered by the OSS and they called it an OSS string holster? I thought my memory was pretty up to the task the day I posted that. I do remember reading about some of the unconventional weapons and carry methods of the OSS, I would be interested to know if that method would be period correct for you Zoot suit shooters though.

Retops
02-10-2012, 09:54 PM
I was recently working with agents from several departments in the Caribbean. Many carried "Mexican style", mostly on/near their hip. Definitely surprised me to see that. Guy I was partnered with most of the time had a Beretta he carried stuffed in his waist band in the small of his back.

I carried my MK9 in my pocket or IWB with a simple clip holster.

DeaconKC
02-12-2012, 05:22 PM
jlott, the OSS was the first I heard associated with the string loop, but i don't know if they invented it. Col. Applegate's writings had a lot of clever stuff in them. I especially remember hearing of him whipping a couple of young thugs in Mexico who thought taking on a 70 year old man with a cane would easy.

JimC
02-13-2012, 08:31 AM
An old cop trick was to wrap rubberbands around the grip, which would keep it in place in yourr pants, but not give yourself away.

Back in the mid '70's, I carried a Colt DS this way for a long time until my department mandated that a holster be used which was a good idea.

1R26
10-28-2012, 07:04 PM
Iv'e been utilizing a "clip draw" for several years and it has worked great. I just purchased first Kahr a CM9. Ive orddered a PJ holster to try. I may go back to a clip draw if I dont like holster. Clip draw does a great job of keeping weapn in place, can move the weapon to any position and is great as far as concealability!

1R26
10-28-2012, 07:07 PM
Iv'e been utilizing a "clip draw" for several years and it has worked great. I just purchased first Kahr a CM9. Ive orddered a PJ holster to try. I may go back to a clip draw if I dont like holster. Clip draw does a great job of keeping weapn in place, can move the weapon to any position and is great as far as concealability!

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