Mag-na-porting a K9 ?

[Steve-$]

I am thinking about Mag-na-porting a K9 Elite which will be used as my daily carry piece, but have read that Mag-na-porting a carry piece is not a good idea due to the possibility of close proximity shooting, where the shooter is "shooting from the hip" or in close proximity to their body or face. Porting will expel the hot gasses directly into the body or face.

I like the idea of having my K9 Mag-na-ported but am still thinking about the reward to risk ratio.

Anybody carrying this set up, or have any thoughts on the subject?

[jocko]

Steve-5


PM sent..

[Longitude Zero]

A ported gun held in a close combat shooting situation can be less than pleasant for the shooter. I would advise against it. Magna Porting IMHO is for heavy recoiling longer barrelled weapons. Just my 2 cents worth.

LZ

[ripley16]

In a defensive situation, the advantages are outweighed by the negatives. Magna ported barrels often involve increased muzzle flash, just where you don't want it, just when you don't want it, especially at night.

[Steve-$]

Gents,
Thanks for the feedback.

[jocko]

In a defensive situation, the advantages are outweighed by the negatives. Magna ported barrels often involve increased muzzle flash, just where you don't want it, just when you don't want it, especially at night.

disagree. evidently you have not shot a magna ported gun at night over the same gun without magna porting. You cannot tell one bit of difference. Flame is gonna come out of both of them.

eash person has a right to their opinion though...... Advantages far out weigh the disadvantages IMO....

[jocko]

A ported gun held in a close combat shooting situation can be less than pleasant for the shooter. I would advise against it. Magna Porting IMHO is for heavy recoiling longer barrelled weapons. Just my 2 cents worth.

LZ

are u saying that a PM9 at night produces no flame out the end of the barrel??? A ported gun neither reduces nor increase flame out the end of the barrel. The ports are so close to the end of the barrel that one cannot tell where it is coming from. I have shot my PM9 before I ever ported it at night and now being ported, I can truthfully say I see no bit of different. I can still see my xs big dot sight at night, with my ported gun easily.. I no of no auto that produces no flame out the end of the barrel , unless it is a 30" barrel... No doubt the more powerful the gun is the better porting will feel, that is a given. Porting a PM40 to me is very advisable as it is a handfull to shoot. porting a PM9 is shooter decision, as recoil is not that bad, but for me certainly my ported PM9 is a real dream to shoot and that second shot is also just right there also, as felt recoil is reduced. A ported gun is actualy no louder ,just that the sound is now directed differently. My PM9 is an ear buster ported or non ported, so for me I do wear hearing protectors all the time at the range.. I do feel a true magna ported gun is much better than one with holes drilled right on the top of the slide. Any hole drilled can be called porting but that is not what magna port does either.. Course I have shot magna ported guns for over 30 years, so what do I know???

[ripley16]

disagree. evidently you have not shot a magna ported gun at night over the same gun without magna porting. You cannot tell one bit of difference. Flame is gonna come out of both of them.

eash person has a right to their opinion though...... Advantages far out weigh the disadvantages IMO....

We shall have to agree to disagree then.

The few I have shot did indeed have a more visible and pronounced muzzle flash and blast extending up, not out from the muzzle. A few were rather spectacular. These were large caliber duty weapons. I have not fired a K9 so equiped. However, the points made so far are quite valid. IMO, The benefit, if any, is out weighed by the undesired aspects, most notably the possibility of a close to the body shot and the resultant proximity of the muzzle blast to the shooters body and face. That alone is reason enough to limit the magna ported gun to range use only. I know no professional that carries one.

[jocko]

according to Magna port web site. "Law enforcement agencies and companies offering night sights have test our porting service finding no increase in muzzle blast or night blindness attributed to our porting service". I would guess that would be just advertisng hype with no bases for truthfullness... The big difference in magna porting vs most other porting jobs is that a magna ported gun is not dumping large volumes of gases through holes positioned across the center line...There is a difference...

[jwr]

my ported PM9 is a real dream to shoot and that second shot is also just right there also, as felt recoil is reduced.
Jocko, one of the reasons I chose a CW9 over the PM9 was just to have a little better grip and barrel weight to speed up followup shots. I know the PM9 is easily controllable but after shooting a pocket .380 for a while I've become accustomed to being able to get back on target *very* quickly.

How noticeable a difference was there for you on your PM9--before and after porting? And how expensive is the magna-porting process. This sounds like something I might be interested in trying.

Thanks!

[jeep45238]

A proposed question to those that say it's a negative or a positive - have you ever shot a target at 0 yards? I literally do mean you are directly contacting your target, and firing the gun from your hip.

The concussion blast you receive in your chest from a non-magnaported gun, and the blast at night, is impressive. You will not have any night vision, you will get a sharp thump in your chest (most from the concussion bouncing off the cardboard), and depending how close your muzzle is to the target, shredded paper if you have some stapled onto the cardboard. You'll probably be smelling burned gun powder less than 1/2 a second after the shot is fired. Your clothes will still be intact, and you will not be burned or hurt (unless shooting a high caliber revolver and you're holding it directly against your body).

Guess what happens with ported guns? THE SAME THING.

In all reality, I'll take ANY advantaged, perceived or real, in my guns, ESPECIALLY my defensive guns. They make you a better shooter, both mentally and the effect on target, and that will help you survive. If that's a laser, porting, shorter resets in my trigger, whatever - I'll take it.



“The 1911 pistol remains the service pistol of choice in the eyes of those who understand the problem. Back when we audited the FBI academy in 1947, I was told that I ought not to use my pistol in their training program because it was not fair. Maybe the first thing one should demand of his sidearm is that it be unfair.”



~Jeff Cooper


I'm not saying that the 1911 is a superior gun (ok, it is for me, in MOST circumstances, but it may not be for you). I'm saying you should have every single unfair advantage you possibly can have.

This starts with your skill sets, translates to your pistol, ammunition, and ends with your effect on target.

Spend less time debating about a modification, and spend more time training to fight with your gun. :)

[jwr]

Spend less time debating about a modification, and spend more time training to fight with your gun. :)
Learning about possible modifications and enhancements to your firearms is another way to possibly gain an advantage.

If a mod to a firearm allows faster and more accurate followups then I'm all for learning the pros and cons. :)

[jeep45238]

In all reality, I'll take ANY advantaged, perceived or real, in my guns, ESPECIALLY my defensive guns.

[clip]

This starts with your skill sets, translates to your pistol, ammunition, and ends with your effect on target.





Spend less time debating, and more time trying out different skill sets and modifications on the range. What works for me will not work for somebody else, though it may very well.

Example: some people here are grinding and sanding off the ridge on the front of the plastic bumpers on the Kahr factory mags. I refuse to do that. I don't care for the aesthetics, like those that take off the ridge, but that ridge provides a very vital area on the gun to grab the magazine and rip it out of the well if it refuses to drop free. If the grip panels on my T40 are tightened too much, the mag may drop 1/2 way out, or it may not drop at all.

Always have a way to defeat Mr. Murphy and his laws - and you can't do that without experimenting first hand. Just remember these are defensive handguns - a grouping of 24" or less at 15 feet is more likely the situation you'll find yourself in if you ever have to use your pistol on another human. You don't need a ton of technology or technique to perform that function - though it sure can't hurt :)

[jwr]

Example: some people here are grinding and sanding off the ridge on the front of the plastic bumpers on the Kahr factory mags. I refuse to do that. I don't care for the aesthetics, like those that take off the ridge, but that ridge provides a very vital area on the gun to grab the magazine and rip it out of the well if it refuses to drop free.
Uh oh, sounds like you're starting a debate on the usefulness of the stock baseplate ;)

As with just about everything else in life there are differences of opinion concerning countless aspects of firearms. Cordially discussing those different perspectives is one of the reasons I frequent gun forums. I like to hear what others think. I like to know possible outcomes *before* I invest money. I also realize that for many of us firearms are more than simple tools for self defense--they're a very enjoyable hobby and we like to tinker.

Fortunately, we're all free to decide for ourselves which conversations we join in on and which we ignore. Expressing in a thread about the need to debate less is stating an opinion and inviting a response--in other words debating.

BTW, just think of me reshaping my baseplate as "experimenting firsthand", as you put it.

Regards!

[jeep45238]

Not a debate at all - just going to show that there are different methods and tactics out there, and the importance as actually trying out those methods and tactics on the range with real ammo. It's very difficult to do that while on a forum asking the questions. Every commercial range I've gone to rents handguns, and they generally have a ported model to try out.

Porting does have real benefits, and if you haven't tried out one, then you don't know what you're missing - most of the negatives brought up would occur with either a ported gun or a non ported gun. Hence the need to experiment first hand. Debate is fine, but most debating the negatives of porting haven't tried it from what I'm reading ;)

[jocko]

end results, if in doubt, don't port, you can't fill the holes once done, course I have yet to read of a person hating his ported gun. I am sure there is a drawback on a ported gun in some situations, but IMO there is to many pluses to over ride that drawback, for me anyways. My defense gun is my PM9, it is ported,(it has over 25,000+ rounds out of it) my second shot is just alot faster, felt recoil is much less (never was really to much for me in the first place). I can tell the most difference in my G19, That gun hardly has any muzzle jump to it at all now. It just sits there right on target and with my TLR 2 light on the rail, I am not now looking all over hell again for the target either.

One can google up night shooting videos. I think they will surprise you. flame is everywhere and all these were with non ported guns. Not sure how one could realy tell any difference. there are they say some good ammo rounds that produce less muzzle flash in these short barrel guns. I am not sure of what mfg=er they are or how true that statement really is to. Naturally a faster buring powder should produce less flash, but in short barrel guns, it is very hard to get away from alot of flash. I do think Jeep 4538 had some excellent points on close shooting. Just not much difference and certainly the BG is going to see far more of any muzzle/porting flash than the shooter, which is not a bad thing either. He will not know whether u are shooting at him with a 22 or 50 cal. again, not trying to argue with anyone here. Porting may not be for everyone, certainly it is costly to do and if you believe everything u read or hear, then indeed don't do it. I chose to believe what I have tried, not what someone else states. For me MAGNA PORTING and I do not mean drilling holes in a barrel and slide either, is the cats nuts..

[jocko]

Jocko, one of the reasons I chose a CW9 over the PM9 was just to have a little better grip and barrel weight to speed up followup shots. I know the PM9 is easily controllable but after shooting a pocket .380 for a while I've become accustomed to being able to get back on target *very* quickly.

How noticeable a difference was there for you on your PM9--before and after porting? And how expensive is the magna-porting process. This sounds like something I might be interested in trying.

Thanks!

PM sent. enjoy ur cw9 it is a real dandy.

[jeep45238]

JWR - this video kind of gets my point across, though it's pretty dang humorous the way he does it (about technology vs skill sets). It's got some language that's not work or family friendly though ;)

YouTube - M1911A1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh_gY9eZByI)

[jocko]

this guy should be teaching safety with firearms. I think he broke every rule in the book, Humorous but so true in the saying " that some people should never be allowed to own fireamrs".

What a ****!!!!!

[Ratmando73]

I side with Jocko on this one.

I have a P40 Covert that I had Magna-ported. I have shot it at night and in the day and cannot tell the difference in muzzle flash between pre and post porting. With over 2000 rounds since porting I also have had no problem with fouling of the XS Big Dot Tritium sights.

I have also shot it next to my body and about 12 inches from my face(with protective lenses) with no side effects other than it is EXTREMELY manageable. Very easy to hold on target for double taps and Mozambique drills.

[Ratmando73]

I'll try this again. I don't think the first went through.

I own a P40 Covert that is Magna-ported. I have shot it day and night and have over 2000 rounds thru it since the porting.

I see no difference in muzzle blast, day or night, from the pre porting days.

I have shot it close to my body and within 12 inches of my face(with safety glasses) with no side effects. I am not saying muzzle blast won't hurt you, just I see no additional blast. A 40 puts out a lot of blast in a 3 or 3 1/2 inch barrel period.

I also have had no fouling of my XS Big Dot tritium sights.

What I can say, it makes the weapon a pleasure to shoot and much more manageable. Double taps and the Mozambique Drill are sooo much easier.

Each shooter has to make their own decision on what they want. It is a very personal decision when you are betting your life on a piece of hardware.
That is why I went from a PM40 to the Covert. 1/2 inch of barrel may not seem like much but to me the increase in the sight line helped my old eyes.

I personally recommend the Magna-Port option. I want every bit of help I can get.

[wyntrout]

Maybe I missed something, but did you totally dismiss a factory ported barrel?
4.0" Ported Barrel (K9 & E9) (http://www.kahrshop.com/cgi-bin/itemdetail.asp?itmid=85)
You could get one of these and try it. If you don't like it, you haven't altered your pistol and you can put the original barrel back in it and sell the 4" ported barrel. If you have it Magnaported and don't like it, I guess that you can sell the gun and get another.
A lot of people would like Kahr to give them that choice with their version.
Wynn:D

[jocko]

Maybe I missed something, but did you totally dismiss a factory ported barrel?
4.0" Ported Barrel (K9 & E9) (http://www.kahrshop.com/cgi-bin/itemdetail.asp?itmid=85)
You could get one of these and try it. If you don't like it, you haven't altered your pistol and you can put the original barrel back in it and sell the 4" ported barrel. If you have it Magnaported and don't like it, I guess that you can sell the gun and get another.
A lot of people would like Kahr to give them that choice with their version.
Wynn:D

just buy another factory barrel, as the slide ports will have no ill effect on the guns reliability. Not sure kahr even offers the ported extended barrels...

[jeep45238]

just buy another factory barrel, as the slide ports will have no ill effect on the guns reliability. Not sure kahr even offers the ported extended barrels...


Kahr does offer extended ported drop in barrels for select models.

I can tell you right now for dang sure that if somebody was trying to sell me a pistol that's been ported, but has a non ported barrel, I'd be expecting a heck of a discount on the pricing. Something obviously isn't jiving with the gun. I doubt I'd be willing to pay EXTRA on a used gun just because it's ported :D

[wyntrout]

Yes, they have for a long time... everything but the Ts, MKs, and PMs... darn it. You get an extra 1/2 inch of barrel, too, and it really doesn't add any more to conceal.:D
Wynn
4.0" Ported Barrel (K9 & E9) (http://www.kahrshop.com/cgi-bin/itemdetail.asp?itmid=85)


Ported Barrel
$154.99
Pistol Model
Compensator for reduced recoil. Drop-in Barrel. No special fitting required. K, P, CW Series & E9 only.

[jocko]

I've yet to read that first report from any porter that wishs he had never done it. No doubt there is one or two not happy out of the hundreds of thousands of ported guns floating around.

As I have stated before porting may not be for everyone, due to their own personal reasons. Like night sights some feel no need for them, most who have them swear by them.

[jocko]

Yes, they have for a long time... everything but the Ts and PMs... darn it. You get an extra 1/2 inch of barrel, too, and it really doesn't add any more to conceal.:D
Wynn
4.0" Ported Barrel (K9 & E9) (http://www.kahrshop.com/cgi-bin/itemdetail.asp?itmid=85)


Ported Barrel
$154.99
Pistol Model
Compensator for reduced recoil. Drop-in Barrel. No special fitting required. K, P, CW Series & E9 only.


why that barrel would not fit in a PM series. It would be more than 1/2" longer but it still IMO should work. Wouldn't it??????:confused::confused:

[jeep45238]

It should, but contact technical support to verify.

[Steve-$]

Anybody have a picture of a K9 Elite or K9 that has been Mag-na-ported ?

I talked with Mag-na-port a couple of days ago but they did not have any pictures of a K9.

I am still thinking about having this done but am still doing some research before making my final decision.

[wyntrout]

why that barrel would not fit in a PM series. It would be more than 1/2" longer but it still IMO should work. Wouldn't it??????:confused::confused:
I tried putting the K9 barrel into the PM9 slide -- it doesn't fit. The K9 barrel hood or the back inch of the barrel is thicker and won't fit. There are probably other differences as well, important in the Browning lockup system employed in Kahrs. It is NOT a simple blow-back system and the barrel is locked into the upper inside of the slide initially in firing. Pix of barrels side-by-side and other brochure pix:

[getsome]

I looked at a factory ported barrel but am so glad I sent my CW40 to Mag-na-Port to do the work....The factory barrel IMO is fugly and would vent upwards into your line of sight due to the ports being on top of the barrel... The Mag-na-Port vents are at a 45 degre angle to the sight line...I love my CW40 now and it shoots so much easier without the stout muzzle flip which made shooting it well a difficult task at best....It cost $140.00 total and took them 10 days...By far money well spent...the gun shoots like a dream now and I wouldn't hesitate to do it again...

[wyntrout]

Getsome, can you do what I did with a camera -- make a video of shooting the Magna-ported pistol and then get stills of the flashes? That would be cool -- to see the blast coming out of the top of the slide and the muzzle! My Canon's software was all I needed. I didn't even think about it until I had shot a few pix of the targets. It makes movies, too! Just a thought!:)
Wynn

[getsome]

Wyn, You gotta be kiddin...You are so far ahead of me on this photo download internet deal it aint funny....I'm doing good just to get a post in every now and then and get this, I'm one of the .0000005% of people that doesn't own a home computer...Heck i'm still trying to figure out how to make my vcr stop blinking 12:00 12:00 12:00....Let me go find my kodak instamatic and if I can find one of those flash bulb thingys I'll mail you a picture of the vcr so maybe you can figure it out....I'm afraid I am an analog man in a high speed digital world....Hope this helps explain why I'm computerely challenged...:crazy:

[jeep45238]

I'm afraid I am an analog man in a high speed digital world....Hope this helps explain why I'm computerely challenged...:crazy:


Partly. I still wear wind up watches if I'm not going to work with a vat of sulfuric acid that day, and I shave with a straight razor. Double edge razor if I'm in a hurry, and I use shaving soap and a brush too! :001_tt2:

You just need to find something in the analog that you understand that partly parallels to the digital to get a good grasp on it :)

[wyntrout]

Getsome, I'm sorry. I just assume that when you send email or chat like this, that you are computer and digital literate. Don't feel bad, though, that wasn't my intent and I'm sure there are more people online than we think that use computers and know nothing about them.
I use a cell phone now and then that could connect to the internet, but I've never set it up to be useful, but I do accidentally hit the one button that I couldn't reprogram and start connecting every once in a while -- aggravating, 'cause there's a minimum charge for just starting to do that -- only a penny, but it shouldn't do that or be that easy to do stuff you don't want to do.
I thought that everyone had a digital camera of some kind.:blushing:
I've always been into gadgets -- electric, electronic, and digital... and stuff that goes bang or BOOM.
Hey, a lot of those recorder thingies can set themselves these days, 'cause there were so many people who just left the things blinking 12:00.
All of my electric/electronics are on uninterruptable power supplies to prevent my clocks and other devices from losing the time setting. Also, I run a big generator during outtages and you shouldn't plan on running anything straight off one of those. Only my fridges and freezers are not protected. Most people don't even have one UPS, let alone 10 to 12 or so, as I do. I used to live in Maine and VCR fuses were always blowing and hard drives failing. I got my first UPS up there and had no more problems with my computer. As I said, I like gadgets and keeping them running. All DVRs have hard drives that run 24/7 and need protection.:)
Wynn

[getsome]

Hi wyn, na I dont feel bad at all...I work for at&! on high speed fiber rings so I do have a pretty good feel for the stuff...I have to use a computer all day and don't really want to go home and do it some more...I tried to get into cameras one time which was before digital took over...My ex mother in law bought us a nice Minolta 35mm and several lenses for Christmas one year...She was way big into photography then and thought she knew everything about it and was very quick to tell me what I was doing wrong:yell: which is probably why I never got into the hobby so much....My real hobby is hot rods....Now if it's LOUD, uses flamable liquid and is real FAST, now that hits my trigger!!!!!:cool: