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apheod
02-27-2012, 04:36 PM
ever since the elections went electronic, i've had zero faith in them. election fraud probably went on before with the paper ballots, but i was about 20 when they went electronic, and just starting to wake up.

i still vote, mainly so that when people ask me if i voted, they don't get to tell me i have no right to ***** about how ****ed up this country is if i say no. but i have no illusions of my (or anyone's) vote making any difference.

S7R1_ixtlyc

as far as i know, this was never covered by the mainstream media. this testimony was given about 10 years ago. remember the 2000 florida count debacle? yeah...

before you say it, i think al gore is at LEAST as big a ********* as george bush.

mprxd4ggpm4

shameful.

discuss.

JohnR
02-27-2012, 05:07 PM
Here's a dose of reality that few know about. I didn't.

U5ut6yPrObw

apheod
02-27-2012, 05:26 PM
http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o542/tinman507/Tin-Foil-Hat.jpg

not very funny, and lacking substance. i have a massive library of funny pictures, but generally i tend to not use them to try and discredit an argument i do not believe in a serious discussion.

i believe you're supposed to try and actually discredit my sources and provide your own showing why my view is incorrect. that is how discussions work.

or we could just have some moron call me a liberal, tell me checks and balances will sort everything out, and turn this into a funny picture thread.

TheTman
02-27-2012, 05:31 PM
Voter fraud unfortunately is a firmly entrenched in a lot of places, Remember the old saying, Vote early and vote often. It doesn't matter if it's paper ballots, electronic or whatever, there will always be a means to manipulate the vote. That is a big part of the reason that I don't expect Obama to get voted out, I'm sure he has his cronies working on it already. Some of the founding fathers wanted to restrict voting to property owners, but it was voted down, so we are stuck with this mess of uninformed voters voting for the guy that looks prettier, or promises them things they'll never see, or in the last election, we had many that voted based on skin color. I listened to a segment on the radio about how some group took McCain's platform, and said it was Obama's and asked people in the inner cities if they approved of it, and almost every person they asked agreed with it, because it was attributed to Obama. When they did the reverse, putting Obama's platform under McCain's name, The same people were totally against it. To vote for someone because of his skin color is just as racist as voting against someone because of it. Obama himself is even playing the race card with his African Americans for Obama campaign. I don't disapprove of him because he is 1/2 black, I just don't care for his Chicago style gangsta government and the people like Eric Holder he has appointed to high places, and most of all his policy of trying to turn us into a socialist nation.

crazymailman
02-27-2012, 06:00 PM
Here's a dose of reality that few know about. I didn't.

U5ut6yPrObw

Really interesting. Had no idea, but it really doesn't surprise me. Now I've got to see the movie!

OldLincoln
02-27-2012, 06:02 PM
The first video alarms me, the others not so much. I have yet to search out the facts around the testimony of the programmer, but if true, all should be alarmed as the nation is mandated by the federal government to move to electronic voting by the "Help America Vote Act of 2002".

I admit to personal bias and want to be fair, but find an awful lot of power residing in the incumbency, while the opportunity, means and motivation does exist at many levels for electronic fraud. Some are very eloquently declaring their impending success with an unusually undeserved confidence that has me concerned for the sanctity of the ballot.

Ikeo74
02-27-2012, 07:01 PM
I will always believe George W Bush was elected by electronic voter fraud. Not just once but twice. I wish it could be proved. He started a war in Iraq so he could go down in history as a "War President". The problem was it lasted longer than the 2 weeks his advisors told him it would last.

wyntrout
02-27-2012, 07:44 PM
Wow, Ike', I can't believe YOU're conservative. George Bush wasn't as conservative and as staunch a believer in the U.S. Constitution as I thought he was, but I'm sure glad he was at the helm when 9/11 occurred. If that fat a$$ windbag Gore had been POTUS he wouldn't have done squat about the attack and we would have shut down the economy to give the rest of the world some kind of "break" with respect to the "Global Warming" hysteria he manufactured and made 100's of millions of dollars promoting. When the news broke about the doctored figures so important in their "proof", the media played it down and somehow we still are hearing that doom and gloom about the increase in global temperatures... something MAN only could only cause about 3% of the "problem" greenhouse gases. Nature produces much of those and our very breath has been declared pollution... CO2.
Obama said during his run for the Democratic candidacy for the presidency that energy costs must NECESSARILY SKYROCKET and that he wanted to get away from use of coal and fossil fuels... jump right into alternative energy sources, though none is advanced or mature enough to make much of a difference, especially in necessary transportation. As president he threw BILLIONS of dollars at alternative energy sources that quickly folded as they couldn't compete with the Chinese production of windmills and solar panels, in particular.
He is so out of touch with reality... hasn't had a REAL job, nor competed in the real world, BUT he's HALF BLACK and that's all most people cared about... it's the Black Man's turn and let's give him/them a chance. people who paid attention to what WAS known about his upbringing... and his background and associations... what LITTLE the press would allow to get by his promoters... KNEW what his agenda was really about. A lot of us aren't surprised at his actions and inactions, but many still say give him a chance... a CHANCE FOR WHAT... to COMPLETELY DESTROY our way of life and turn our country into a tyrannical, government run economy and "Nanny State" that can only fail as the productive people are persecuted and the welfare cheaters and parasites drag down our economy past any possible recovery!

When this scheme fails, as it must, Draconian measures will be enacted and we WILL see the DEATH PANELS as the government necessarily cuts the "deadwood" and cuts medical care and resources to the old and infirm, though they may have "earned" the retirement benefits and care through long hard work and sacrifice in the military or the government services.

We might comfort ourselves with cuddling our weapons and our cherished "God-Given" rights such as the Bill of Rights and our freedom, but Obama criticizes that kind of thought and would get rid of the U.S. Constitution and declare himself "Great Leader For Life".

Wynn:(

Ikeo74
02-27-2012, 08:23 PM
Wow Wyn, I must have stepped on a nerve there. If it makes you feel any better, I don't like Obama either. I think it's a shame that we can't get better canadates for President. :blushing:

tv_racin_fan
02-27-2012, 09:32 PM
Did you seriously pay attention to the first video? A computer programmer seriously said one could NOT write a program to do something? Moreso while arguing that as a programmer he could write a program to make a computer do something. As an idiot I know better than that. A computer programmer can write a program that will have a computer do virtually anything.

wyntrout
02-27-2012, 10:03 PM
I kinda liked Bush... voted for him twice for Governor and twice for President... we could have done a LOT worse!

I voted for Jeb twice here in Florida, too. I think he would have been the better "Bush" president.

The future... not really funny if you think about it:eek:

To help save the economy, the Government will announce
next month that the Immigration Department will start deporting
seniors (instead of illegal’s) in order to lower Social Security
and Medicare costs.
Older people are easier to catch and will not remember
how to get back home.
I started to cry when I thought of you.
Then it dawned on me ... oh, crap ...
I'll see you on the bus!

Wynn:)

JFootin
02-27-2012, 10:26 PM
Harry Reid was showing very negatively in polls in Nevada, yet he won reelection with the hugely favorable vote tally in the county where Las Vegas is. A recent example of massive voter fraud and a stolen election that has never even been looked at.

wyntrout
02-27-2012, 10:46 PM
Look at Minnesota and their last Senatorial election... what a joke that was... tell me that wasn't "fixed"... elected a bad liberal comedian!

Washington State has elected people to the Senate that weren't as smart as some of the people that Jay Leno interviews and asks "real hard questions" on Jaywalking.

Wynn:)

OldLincoln
02-28-2012, 12:00 AM
Did you seriously pay attention to the first video? A computer programmer seriously said one could NOT write a program to do something? Moreso while arguing that as a programmer he could write a program to make a computer do something. As an idiot I know better than that. A computer programmer can write a program that will have a computer do virtually anything.

What the programmer said was that unless one can see the original source code (the stuff the programmer types) before it is compiled (turned into machine language that cannot be read directly) you cannot absolutely determine if the code changing the outcome exists.

Experienced programmers will agree as a) decompiling code is not exact (not like translating English into French and back) and b) a malicious programmer would write the malicious code as a separate module and drop a line into the base code telling it to destroy the module after it completes execution.

Programmers can do a lot of things starting from scratch, but they cannot always detect or undo what others have done after the fact or even before the dirty part is done but after the code is compiled. What can and should be done is have the source code examined by experts and certified BEFORE compiled and allow only that code be installed in the tally machines prior to the elections.

muggsy
02-28-2012, 05:50 AM
ever since the elections went electronic, i've had zero faith in them. election fraud probably went on before with the paper ballots, but i was about 20 when they went electronic, and just starting to wake up.

i still vote, mainly so that when people ask me if i voted, they don't get to tell me i have no right to ***** about how ****ed up this country is if i say no. but i have no illusions of my (or anyone's) vote making any difference.

S7R1_ixtlyc

as far as i know, this was never covered by the mainstream media. this testimony was given about 10 years ago. remember the 2000 florida count debacle? yeah...

before you say it, i think al gore is at LEAST as big a ********* as george bush.

mprxd4ggpm4

shameful.

discuss.

And the point of this post is to discourage people from voting? I can't believe how easily that some people can be duped. People can testify to anything particularly when they have been given immunity from prosecution. Well, Apheod, you sit home. I'm going to the polls. I don't believe anything that is put out by the liberal media. Particularly from MSNBC.

apheod
02-28-2012, 06:37 AM
again, that is not how you argue your side of a discussion. you forgot to call me a leftist and tell me that i hate the constitution and the united states. you're supposed to discredit my side with facts rather than scoffing and saying that's liberal BS and present your own facts. i understand that is simply not how you roll though.

i made it clear that i DO vote, i just have no faith in the honesty of the count.

the point of this post is not to discourage people from voting, it's to draw attention to something that should outrage anyone who loves what this country is SUPPOSED to represent.

apheod
02-28-2012, 09:08 AM
here, let me give you a good starting point to research and attempt to discredit this man.

again, with that evil, leftist, commie rag wikipedia. all liberal lies, to be sure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_Eugene_Curtis


On March 3, 2005, Curtis passed a polygraph (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygraph) test given by Tim Robinson, the retired chief polygraph operator and 20-year veteran of the Florida Department of Law Enforcement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Department_of_Law_Enforcement). The polygraph was paid for by Kevin Walsh, a private investigator from Washington, D.C. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington,_D.C.), who told the St. Petersburg Times that he had been hired to prove election fraud. Walsh refused to identify the client.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_Eugene_Curtis#cite_note-Morgan-2) Curtis has stated that the test was based on all the allegations in the affidavit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affidavit) that was provided to Conyers' Voting Forum.

TheTman
02-28-2012, 09:29 AM
I don't get the point apheod, are you wanting someone to argue against? I don't think anyone has any ammunition with which to argue with. Vote fraud is a way of life for some places, New York, Chicago, other big cities, especially when you have ACORN or whoever they are now, registering dead people to vote. Doing anything they can to keep the Democrat machine running. Or people standing outside the polling places with billy clubs telling you to vote for the right candidate. And of course our justice department looks the other way.

Tinman507
02-28-2012, 09:47 AM
Ok, I posted a questionably funny picture and was rightfully called on it. I apologized and deleted the posts in question. But I honestly cannot sit back and watch this thread. All I can resopond with is don't take the bait. The OP's only intent is to begin an argument. There will be no discussion, it will degenerate into a name calling, personal attack thread. So here is my response, right, wrong or indifferent:
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTY4I9NW3pTYtBlRiQ39wytyWdLAFTKf 8rh09qDNZIbM-O0G8MNcqKuW8if

Ok, I'm done and I feel better.

LaP
02-28-2012, 10:01 AM
Rally the democrats:

Vote early and vote often.

Free vote!!!!? Nobody in my family for the last 4 generations has voted for free.

tv_racin_fan
02-28-2012, 10:20 AM
What the programmer said was that unless one can see the original source code (the stuff the programmer types) before it is compiled (turned into machine language that cannot be read directly) you cannot absolutely determine if the code changing the outcome exists.

Experienced programmers will agree as a) decompiling code is not exact (not like translating English into French and back) and b) a malicious programmer would write the malicious code as a separate module and drop a line into the base code telling it to destroy the module after it completes execution.

Programmers can do a lot of things starting from scratch, but they cannot always detect or undo what others have done after the fact or even before the dirty part is done but after the code is compiled. What can and should be done is have the source code examined by experts and certified BEFORE compiled and allow only that code be installed in the tally machines prior to the elections.

Of what use would a program be that deletes itself after doing the job when said program needs to run more than once? Kinda hard to run once it has deleted itself isn't it?

Guess I need to call my mom since she was a programmer who to my knowledge did exactly what you seem to claim can't be done and apparently did it pretty well.

I am not trying to claim that a programmer could not program a machine to "cheat" since in fact that is possible. What I am trying to say is that it is not possible to do anything that someone else can not detect.

popgoestheweasel
02-28-2012, 10:57 AM
Voter fraud unfortunately is a firmly entrenched in a lot of places, Remember the old saying, Vote early and vote often. It doesn't matter if it's paper ballots, electronic or whatever, there will always be a means to manipulate the vote. That is a big part of the reason that I don't expect Obama to get voted out, I'm sure he has his cronies working on it already. Some of the founding fathers wanted to restrict voting to property owners, but it was voted down, so we are stuck with this mess of uninformed voters voting for the guy that looks prettier, or promises them things they'll never see, or in the last election, we had many that voted based on skin color. I listened to a segment on the radio about how some group took McCain's platform, and said it was Obama's and asked people in the inner cities if they approved of it, and almost every person they asked agreed with it, because it was attributed to Obama. When they did the reverse, putting Obama's platform under McCain's name, The same people were totally against it. To vote for someone because of his skin color is just as racist as voting against someone because of it. Obama himself is even playing the race card with his African Americans for Obama campaign. I don't disapprove of him because he is 1/2 black, I just don't care for his Chicago style gangsta government and the people like Eric Holder he has appointed to high places, and most of all his policy of trying to turn us into a socialist nation.

"chicago style gangsta government" ??????? sounds racist to me

TheTman
02-28-2012, 10:59 AM
I am a computer programmer, and of course it's possible to find out what a program is doing as long as you have the source code. Once the program is compiled and turned into machine language, it looks something like this 1AG9FE3058ABD38900 for lines and lines, and there's no reliable way to turn it back into source code, for example look at the garbage printed out when you get the "Blue Screen of Death" on your PC, it usually prints off some machine language, those are usually addresses of called modules that the programmer can follow to see what is going on.
If the source has been destroyed, there's no way to know what's really going on inside the beast. A module wouldn't really have to delete itself to avoid detection if the source is gone. It's very hard to tell from machine language what the heck it's doing.

OldLincoln
02-28-2012, 11:12 AM
>>Of what use would a program be that deletes itself after doing the job when said program needs to run more than once? Kinda hard to run once it has deleted itself isn't it?<<

In the full electronic environment the voting machines are networked to a few tally machines which hold the code. Each local poll machines would accurately record the vote then either real time or periodically upload results to the tally machines over an ordinary internet connection.

The tally machine receives and adjusts the numbers then and saves to the hard drives. This proceeds throughout the day and the adjustment factor is slewed by the running totals.

The deletion code can be triggered by factors such as the number of total votes or the time of day. Since the results are already on the drives they are the permanent record. The module that is deleted is written is a way that it's absence doesn't affect the next operation. It's something like "if the module exists, run the adjustment routing, otherwise continue."

It is not at all difficult to write and while that "IF" statement remains in the base code, being compiled it's very difficult to discover. Like the guy said, an MIT or equivalent could probably find it but not not most analysts.

Sorry for the geek, Bawanna. The bottom line is it can be done and according to the testimony has been done.

tv_racin_fan
02-28-2012, 11:28 AM
I am a computer programmer, and of course it's possible to find out what a program is doing as long as you have the source code. Once the program is compiled and turned into machine language, it looks something like this 1AG9FE3058ABD38900 for lines and lines, and there's no reliable way to turn it back into source code, for example look at the garbage printed out when you get the "Blue Screen of Death" on your PC, it usually prints off some machine language, those are usually addresses of called modules that the programmer can follow to see what is going on.
If the source has been destroyed, there's no way to know what's really going on inside the beast. A module wouldn't really have to delete itself to avoid detection if the source is gone. It's very hard to tell from machine language what the heck it's doing.

IF this is as you claim how does one go into said program and fix issues with said program? When said program does not do as the programmer intended how does it get fixed by someone other than the original programmer?

JFootin
02-28-2012, 12:05 PM
IF this is as you claim how does one go into said program and fix issues with said program? When said program does not do as the programmer intended how does it get fixed by someone other than the original programmer?

You make the fixes in the source code, not in machine language. He is clearly talking about not being able to change it without having access to the source code.

muggsy
02-28-2012, 12:22 PM
I will always believe George W Bush was elected by electronic voter fraud. Not just once but twice. I wish it could be proved. He started a war in Iraq so he could go down in history as a "War President". The problem was it lasted longer than the 2 weeks his advisors told him it would last.

DIdn't you hear, Ikeo, Bush wasn't elected at all. He was appointed President by the Supreme Court of the United states. :) The fix was in.

muggsy
02-28-2012, 12:30 PM
Question to all. Which political party steadfastly refuses to support voter picture ID requirements at the polling places? Hint which political party was associated with Acorn's fraudulent voter registration in the last election?

JFootin
02-28-2012, 01:26 PM
Early on, there was no popular vote for president. I think the founding fathers knew better than allowing this populist attrocity to decide who would occupy the office. And look what it has finally produced!

http://www.crestock.com/images/contest2008/7685-2-obama-propaganda.jpg

popgoestheweasel
02-28-2012, 01:30 PM
DIdn't you hear, Ikeo, Bush wasn't elected at all. He was appointed President by the Supreme Court of the United states. :) The fix was in.

Ikeo knows you're just funnin'...the Supreme Court isn't THAT stupid. To appoint a puppet who seldom if EVER had an original thought??? Besides, the Supreme Court would have found a zillion other candidates who wouldn't have caused nearly as much damage to our Country.

wyntrout
02-28-2012, 02:59 PM
DIdn't you hear, Ikeo, Bush wasn't elected at all. He was appointed President by the Supreme Court of the United states. :) The fix was in.

Gore was trying to "fix" the vote... cherrypicking the votes from Democratic precincts and cities... not a total state recount... with "interpretive ballot card examinations"... AND the PRESS gave Gore the state before the polls were closed in the Panhandle... a high military population and more Conservative part of the state.

Gore wanted to "STEAL" the vote. It was good that the SCOTUS made a ruling, since Gore didn't want to "play fair".

It was close, but Bush did and should have won the race... and we're damned lucky that he did... 4 years or more of Gore milking the "Global Warming Hysteria" that he pretty much DID invent... with a lot of subterfuge. It's still being touted as "science" after the Internet disclosure of faked and altered data concerning their "pivotal Hockey Stick Charts".

And we really dodged a bullet not getting "war Hero" and extreme liberal traitor John Kerry as POTUS. That B@ST@RD went to Paris and aided the North Vietnamese before he was fully discharged from the Navy... and we WERE STILL AT WAR with them!! It's a good thing he had the money and power to keep his military records from being released.

Wynn:rolleyes:

JFootin
02-28-2012, 04:10 PM
Gore was trying to "fix" the vote... cherrypicking the votes from Democratic precincts and cities... not a total state recount... with "interpretive ballot card examinations"... AND the the PRESS gave Gore the state before the polls were closed in the Panhandle... a high military population and more Conservative part of the state.

Gore wanted to "STEAL" the vote. It was good that the SCOTUS made a ruling, since Gore didn't want to "play fair".

It was close, but Bush did and should have won the race... and we're damned lucky that he did... 4 years or more of Gore milking the "Global Warming Hysteria" that he pretty much DID invent... with a lot of subterfuge. It's still being touted as "science" after the Internet disclosure of faked and altered data concerning their "pivotal Hockey Stick Charts".

And we really dodged a bullet not getting "war Hero" and extreme liberal traitor John Kerry as POTUS. That B@ST@RD went to Paris and aided the North Vietnamese before he was fully discharged from the Navy... and we WERE STILL AT WAR with them!! It's a good thing he had the money and power to keep his military records from being released.

Wynn:rolleyes:

+++! John Kerry and Hanoi Jane should have been hung as traitors back in the 70s! And they need to pass a special tax to take 100% of everything Al Gore has ever made pushing the global warming lie!

TriggerMan
02-28-2012, 05:58 PM
Question to all. Which political party steadfastly refuses to support voter picture ID requirements at the polling places? Hint which political party was associated with Acorn's fraudulent voter registration in the last election? I voted this morning in the Michigan Primary. Had to show picture ID.

muggsy
02-28-2012, 10:00 PM
I voted this morning in the Michigan Primary. Had to show picture ID.

I wish that was the case in every state, but it's not.

muggsy
02-28-2012, 10:07 PM
again, that is not how you argue your side of a discussion. you forgot to call me a leftist and tell me that i hate the constitution and the united states. you're supposed to discredit my side with facts rather than scoffing and saying that's liberal BS and present your own facts. i understand that is simply not how you roll though.

i made it clear that i DO vote, i just have no faith in the honesty of the count.

the point of this post is not to discourage people from voting, it's to draw attention to something that should outrage anyone who loves what this country is SUPPOSED to represent.

If you have no faith in the honesty of the count then why do you bother to vote? Do you enjoy engaging in exercises of futility? Apheod, I don't have to call you a liberal. You illustrate your leanings with every post. I'm not in the habit of being redundant.

TriggerMan
02-28-2012, 11:16 PM
I wish that was the case in every state, but it's not.Who makes the call on this?

tv_racin_fan
02-29-2012, 02:03 AM
Who makes the call on this?

The individual states do. However take note of the states trying to implement a voter ID law and who is railing against such bills.

tv_racin_fan
02-29-2012, 02:33 AM
Did you guys seriously pay attention to the guys testimony? First he claims that such a program could be written, which indeed a program could be written that could do such a thing. BUT then he claims that no such program could be written to detect or prevent such a thing, which I know to be a flat out lie. Anti virus software is written and re written all the time. You trying to tell me that that can not be done? He is saying pretty much exactly that.

A bit later someone asked him when and who asked him to create such a program. The questioning them came around as if it was intended to show that the Presidential election was rigged in Florida. UUMM yeah they somehow used a software program to rig an election using paper ballots... which by the way he points out more than once that having a receipt is one of the ways to detect this cheating or voting fraud.

He also claimed that if he wrote this program that it would fix the voting machines to reflect what the tabulating machines saw in his cheating scheme. But that only someone from like MIT could detect it. Yet he could write it? Now maybe HE couldn't detect such so that he claims no one else could. Yet my mother, without any college, could write and detect such and more or less did for a living. She was what I like to call a mainframe software mechanic. She went in the programs and fixed other peoples mistakes, spome times mistakes that the original programmer couldn't or maybe more correctly the original programmer couldn't detect the issue and fix it as fast as she could.

Of course some dufus like me couldn't detect anything and in general election officials couldn't. They couldn't seem to understand that those punch style voting machines needed to be cleaned out now and again. They couldn't seem to understand that one must BY LAW follow the voting regulations that were in place BEFORE the voting took place. Of course maybe it wasn't the election officials who didn't seem to understand that but perhaps it was those who wished Mr Gore won the election, they did take the election board of Palm Beach to court twice in an effort to change the standard by which ballots were looked at per voter intent.

Ikeo74
02-29-2012, 06:42 AM
Looking at the Florida recount vote from the outside, and it comes down to recounting the close vote. Who do you think Jeb will give the highest number of votes to? Legitimately or otherwise, brother George will always come out ahead 100% of the time. Florida should not have been the deciding State.

muggsy
02-29-2012, 06:53 AM
Who makes the call on this?

Currently the State Board of Elections makes the call. The republicans have been pushing for a nation requirement for photo IDs at the polls and the democrats feel that it is an unfair burden on minorities to require a photo ID.

JFootin
02-29-2012, 08:15 AM
Currently the State Board of Elections makes the call. The republicans have been pushing for a nation requirement for photo IDs at the polls and the democrats feel that it is an unfair burden on minorities to require a photo ID.

That whole story about it being a burden on mnorities and Republicans trying to disenfranchise voters is a huge crock of **it! Their real motive is only one thing: to preserve their ability to commit massive voter fraud. Always has beenm. Bunch of crooks!

apheod
02-29-2012, 09:23 AM
I don't get the point apheod, are you wanting someone to argue against? I don't think anyone has any ammunition with which to argue with. Vote fraud is a way of life for some places, New York, Chicago, other big cities, especially when you have ACORN or whoever they are now, registering dead people to vote. Doing anything they can to keep the Democrat machine running. Or people standing outside the polling places with billy clubs telling you to vote for the right candidate. And of course our justice department looks the other way.

i stated the point already, it's to draw attention to the corruption of the system as a whole. apparently the... rightists? have plenty of ammunition, although it consists almost entirely of calling me a democrat and dismissing any evidence i present as liberal lies.

i'm not seeking an argument, but i speak my mind. speaking my mind often pisses folks off. nature of the game, i suppose.


Ok, I posted a questionably funny picture and was rightfully called on it. I apologized and deleted the posts in question. But I honestly cannot sit back and watch this thread. All I can resopond with is don't take the bait. The OP's only intent is to begin an argument. There will be no discussion, it will degenerate into a name calling, personal attack thread. So here is my response, right, wrong or indifferent:
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTY4I9NW3pTYtBlRiQ39wytyWdLAFTKf 8rh09qDNZIbM-O0G8MNcqKuW8if

Ok, I'm done and I feel better.

again, i'm not looking for an argument, i'm trying to get people to open their minds and showing them information they possibly not see otherwise.


If you have no faith in the honesty of the count then why do you bother to vote? Do you enjoy engaging in exercises of futility? Apheod, I don't have to call you a liberal. You illustrate your leanings with every post. I'm not in the habit of being redundant.

if you would read my posts you would see that in the first post i stated why i still vote. it's so that morons can't tell me i have no right to complain if i don't vote. so i go cast my worthless vote, although i generally try to vote FOR someone rather than against the lesser evil of the 2 corporate shills with a reasonable chance of winning. if you buy into the 2 party system, i suppose you could say that my vote is wasted and only helps put people like obama in office. thats your right, but i personally refuse to vote for someone who i absolutely despise. bush/gore? couldn't stand either. bush/kerry? same. obama/mccain? same.


Currently the State Board of Elections makes the call. The republicans have been pushing for a nation requirement for photo IDs at the polls and the democrats feel that it is an unfair burden on minorities to require a photo ID.

wake up. this is not a republican/democrat issue. you seem to see all of the corruption i complain about, as long as its on the other side of the fence. look at how bad you slam obama at every chance. i agree with most of what your type posts on that scumbag, although i do feel some of it (not you in particular) is for the wrong reason, and based in racism. i hate obama just as much, if not more than you do.

i feel the way you feel about democrats about almost every politician. they're all full of it.

you guys slamming obama for shredding the constitution and praising bush as the greatest war president of all time seem to forget the fact that bush did more to mitigate the constitution than obama has, he paved the way. obama is simply continuing down the same path, the same as romney, santorum, or whatever other status quo GOP puppet will likely defeat obama. romney is all for big business, big banks, and the ultra rich. santorum wants to set up a religious dictatorship. the "conservative" GOP movement lately has been little more than a bunch of extremely rich clowns trying to out-christian each other. they're completely out of touch with regular people, and they don't care about regular people.

i'm not a republican and certainly not a democrat. i'm somewhere in between a constitutionalist and a libertarian.

as far as his testimony being given before the electronic machines went active... right, but it wasnt very long before they went active. you think they wouldnt have the system tested and ready to go in advance?

tv_racin_fan
02-29-2012, 09:53 AM
Looking at the Florida recount vote from the outside, and it comes down to recounting the close vote. Who do you think Jeb will give the highest number of votes to? Legitimately or otherwise, brother George will always come out ahead 100% of the time. Florida should not have been the deciding State.

Ya gotta love that one. Jeb...

According to some media outlets that did an independant recount of all of the ballots in Florida in all but the count using the very most liberal standard as per intent Bush won.

Which state should have been the deciding state in your opinion? And why?

muggsy
02-29-2012, 10:02 AM
Bush did nothing that was unconstitutional. If he had done something unconstitutional he would have been impeached. Everything that Bush did in office was either supported by congress, the U.N., or fell under the provisions of the War Powers Act. Nothing that Bush was accused of doing was ever adjudicated as being unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. Once again, Aphoed, you allow your liberal bias to show. As far as me being racist is concerned, you never heard me refer to myself as a white American. I criticize Obama for his actions, not his skin color.

apheod
02-29-2012, 10:16 AM
Bush did nothing that was unconstitutional. If he had done something unconstitutional he would have been impeached. Everything that Bush did in office was either supported by congress, the U.N., or fell under the provisions of the War Powers Act. Nothing that Bush was accused of doing was ever adjudicated as being unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. Once again, Aphoed, you allow your liberal bias to show. As far as me being racist is concerned, you never heard me refer to myself as a white American. I criticize Obama for his actions, not his skin color.

you're making this far too easy.

bush did nothing unconstitutional? riiiiight. by your own logic, and your own statements of all of the unconstitutional acts by obama, why hasn't he been impeached, since the system works as intended and any president acting outside of the law is immedietely impeached? oh that's right, because that only happens in fantasy land.

i didn't call you a racist, in fact i specifically said that i wasn't talking about you in particular when i said some of the criticism against obama is based in racism, whether the person doing it realizes it or not.

once again you allow your lack of reason, lack of ability to read my posts, and determination to accuse those who disagree with you as being liberal shows. could you point out SPECIFICALLY what it is about me that you think makes me a liberal? don't say it's that i attack republicans, because i attack democrats just as much, if not more. don't try to tell me that by looking at both parties unfavorably that i'm some type of anarchist or communist, i simply believe the constitution should be followed, which makes me appear pretty radical in todays world.

OldLincoln
02-29-2012, 10:33 AM
There is an apparent confusion regarding writing computer programs. The easiest explanation I can offer is that the writing is in an known language base and anybody who understands the language can read it like a book. However that language is very inefficient at the speeds computers runs, so it is compiled into machine language which computers love. This compiled version is like the toughest top level encryption being applied and not "breakable" by non-experts. The trick is the base code of dictionary sized document will contain only a few words of direction telling the computer to execute a function residing in another module (like the dll files in Windows) IF it still exists, otherwise don't worry about it. The cheating module has in itself code a suicide pill to wipe itself out based on some factor.

In operation, the cheating module would read the results to date and apply a fudge factor to the new votes. You don't want a lopsided victory but just enough to win.

It may be hard to accept if you haven't programmed or studied it, but yes it is very possible.

apheod
02-29-2012, 10:35 AM
By the way, I thought we were supposed to avoid each other? I haven't been posting in any of your threads even though I've been highly tempted to. Are you trying to bait me and get the thread closed or something?

Ikeo74
02-29-2012, 10:37 AM
Ya gotta love that one. Jeb...

According to some media outlets that did an independant recount of all of the ballots in Florida in all but the count using the very most liberal standard as per intent Bush won.

Which state should have been the deciding state in your opinion? And why?
There was a lot more to behind the scenes than just counting the votes! Remember that ballots were thrown out long before counting beause of the controversal ballot form that was used by Florida. So the swaying of the vote count began way before the recount. How can you get a fair trial if the brother of the accused is the judge? I stand by my belief that George Bush was the worst President of all our Presidents, bar none.

tv_racin_fan
02-29-2012, 01:23 PM
There is an apparent confusion regarding writing computer programs. The easiest explanation I can offer is that the writing is in an known language base and anybody who understands the language can read it like a book. However that language is very inefficient at the speeds computers runs, so it is compiled into machine language which computers love. This compiled version is like the toughest top level encryption being applied and not "breakable" by non-experts. The trick is the base code of dictionary sized document will contain only a few words of direction telling the computer to execute a function residing in another module (like the dll files in Windows) IF it still exists, otherwise don't worry about it. The cheating module has in itself code a suicide pill to wipe itself out based on some factor.

In operation, the cheating module would read the results to date and apply a fudge factor to the new votes. You don't want a lopsided victory but just enough to win.

It may be hard to accept if you haven't programmed or studied it, but yes it is very possible.

IF this is indeed the case how does someone other than the programmer go back into the machine and fix the original program? Months and even years later when an issue is discovered.

muggsy
02-29-2012, 03:54 PM
you're making this far too easy.

bush did nothing unconstitutional? riiiiight. by your own logic, and your own statements of all of the unconstitutional acts by obama, why hasn't he been impeached, since the system works as intended and any president acting outside of the law is immedietely impeached? oh that's right, because that only happens in fantasy land.

i didn't call you a racist, in fact i specifically said that i wasn't talking about you in particular when i said some of the criticism against obama is based in racism, whether the person doing it realizes it or not.

once again you allow your lack of reason, lack of ability to read my posts, and determination to accuse those who disagree with you as being liberal shows. could you point out SPECIFICALLY what it is about me that you think makes me a liberal? don't say it's that i attack republicans, because i attack democrats just as much, if not more. don't try to tell me that by looking at both parties unfavorably that i'm some type of anarchist or communist, i simply believe the constitution should be followed, which makes me appear pretty radical in todays world.

The constitutionality of the individual mandate in Obamacare is being challenged in the courts and several courts have already ruled it unconstitutional. We'll have to wait and see what the Supreme Court rules. Your defense of Obama and links to liberal websites leads me and others to believe that you lean left. Perhaps if you could learn to capitalize and use proper punctuation I'd have less trouble following your posts. Jocko told me that you look and sound a lot like Rachel Maddow. :)

apheod
02-29-2012, 04:02 PM
how many courts ruled that the patriot act is unconstitutional? more than just a couple.

i'm almost enjoying this, you make yourself look even more ridiculous than i make you look by destroying your logic and arguments. i may have to take a look through some of your other posts and point out your incorrect facts and bias since you insist on doing it to me.

i don't expect you to do so, since you have made a point of ignoring every question i pose to you and resorted to inconsequential accusations attempting to paint me as a democrat, but could you quote where i have defended obama? possibly in between me calling him a scumbag, a communist, a gun grabber, a liar, and the worst president we've ever had?

go right ahead and do that... while you're at it, how about answering all of the other questions i've posed to you in this thread?

muggsy
02-29-2012, 04:09 PM
There was a lot more to behind the scenes than just counting the votes! Remember that ballots were thrown out long before counting beause of the controversal ballot form that was used by Florida. So the swaying of the vote count began way before the recount. How can you get a fair trial if the brother of the accused is the judge? I stand by my belief that George Bush was the worst President of all our Presidents, bar none.

I seem to recall that the were counting hanging and dimpled chads. How did they do that if the ballots were thrown out? George W. Bush was the Best President since Ronald Reagan. Carter sucked, Clinton was sucked and Obama sucks the most.

apheod
02-29-2012, 04:33 PM
way to stay true to form and completely ignore the questions posed to you. well played sir, well played.

mr surveyor
02-29-2012, 05:22 PM
I seem to recall that the were counting hanging and dimpled chads. How did they do that if the ballots were thrown out? George W. Bush was the Best President since Ronald Reagan. Carter sucked, Clinton was sucked and Obama sucks the most.




I agree:)

muggsy
03-01-2012, 09:17 AM
way to stay true to form and completely ignore the questions posed to you. well played sir, well played.

I can't help myself Apheod, you're easy to ignore. Did the Supreme Court rule the Patriot Act unconstitutional? The Patriot Act was passed by congress, not by President Bush. Bush simply signed the Act into law. The Patriot Act is still in place long after president Bush left office. Guantanamo is still open for business. Makes you want to smile, doesn't it? Feeling a little owned?

muggsy
03-01-2012, 09:37 AM
By the way, I thought we were supposed to avoid each other? I haven't been posting in any of your threads even though I've been highly tempted to. Are you trying to bait me and get the thread closed or something?

If that comment was addressed to me, I offered a truce on several occasions. You are the one who chooses to continue the war. You are the one who believes that he is always right and feels the need to own people. Blame it on your supposed superior intellect and high IQ. Believe me, I can be every bit as anal as you. I've given you the opportunity to make the choice. Choose well, grasshopper.

apheod
03-01-2012, 02:34 PM
I can't help myself Apheod, you're easy to ignore. Did the Supreme Court rule the Patriot Act unconstitutional? The Patriot Act was passed by congress, not by President Bush. Bush simply signed the Act into law. The Patriot Act is still in place long after president Bush left office. Guantanamo is still open for business. Makes you want to smile, doesn't it? Feeling a little owned?

i imagine it must be easy to ignore questions that you have no answer for, or questions that would make you look even more silly to answer. no, the supreme court did not rule the patriot act unconstitional. yes, i'm well aware that congress passed the patriot act. yes, i'm aware it's still in place. yes, i'm aware guantanamo is still up and running. no, it doesn't make me want to smile. no, i don't feel owned since you just told me a bunch of things i already know, while avoiding responding to anything i've said. if stating well known facts that have no relation to the topic at hand (election fraud) makes you feel like you've owned someone, i'm glad for you.

however, it doesn't change the fact that anyone with a basic understanding of the english language can look up the US constitution online, and the patriot act, compare them, and see that the several of the bill of rights are violated by it. most any constitutional law professor (except for obama, who likely only studied it so thoroughly to find all of the loopholes) will tell you flat out that it is not constitutional.

here is a quick (and incomplete... it doesn't even mention warrantless wiretaps outside of prison and several other powers granted under the act) breakdown of the constitutional violations.

http://www.scn.org/ccapa/pa-vs-const.html

what part of "the entire system is corrupt" do you not understand? i'm not here to say that george bush drafted up and single handedly passed the patriot act, because he wasn't that intelligent. that moron could barely form a coherent sentence, possibly a result of his cocaine use in the past. i submit the following into evidence...

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eKgPY1adc0A

once again, i ask you if the supreme court actually does keep unconstitutional acts in check, why haven't they done something about obama? not that i expect you to answer, since for you to answer that would assist my ownage of you.


If that comment was addressed to me, I offered a truce on several occasions. You are the one who chooses to continue the war. You are the one who believes that he is always right and feels the need to own people. Blame it on your supposed superior intellect and high IQ. Believe me, I can be every bit as anal as you. I've given you the opportunity to make the choice. Choose well, grasshopper.

that comment was addressed to you. i never saw you "offer a truce." i choose to continue the war by staying out of your threads and not responding to your posts? or am i continuing the war by responding to you coming into my thread and trolling the hell out of it? seems to me that YOU broke the truce and invited me to lay into you. i would have no problem here if you were here to discuss things and address the issue at hand, but the only argument you've made is that i'm a liberal (i'm not) and that bush was an amazing president (he wasn't)

i do not believe i'm always right. i welcome mature discussion on controversial subjects, such as the government as a whole not having our best interests at heart. note that i said MATURE discussion, not the childish antics you've displayed here. i do not feel the need to own people, although i can't really help but own those who do what you've done in this thread.

now that that's done... i'm going to be the bigger man and ignore what you have to say from now on, since you obviously have no interest in logical discussion. why should i keep trying to argue with someone who refuses to address any question posed to him? i guess the old saying is right... never argue with an idiot, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

and to quote your hero... "FOOL ME CAN'T GET FOOLED AGAIN!!"

JFootin
03-01-2012, 03:08 PM
Muggsy and Apheod, I have a suggestion. Why don't you put each other on your ignore lists? That way, you would have to do an override to see what the other has written, and any posts by the ignored one will not display as you are reading threads. You can still post anywhere, but your antagonist won't see it.

apheod
03-01-2012, 03:43 PM
Done.

Tinman507
03-01-2012, 03:48 PM
Pastry
· 2 cups Gold Medal® all-purpose flour
· 1 teaspoon salt
· 2/3 cup plus 2 tablespoons shortening
· 4 to 6 tablespoons cold water
Filling
· 1/3 to 1/2 cup sugar
· 1/4 cup Gold Medal® all-purpose flour
· 1/2 teaspoon ground cinnamon
· 1/2 teaspoon ground nutmeg
· 1/8 teaspoon salt
· 8 cups thinly sliced peeled tart apples (8 medium)
· 2 tablespoons butter or margarine

In medium bowl, mix 2 cups flour and 1 teaspoon salt. Cut in shortening, using pastry blender (or pulling 2 table knives through ingredients in opposite directions), until particles are size of small peas. Sprinkle with cold water, 1 tablespoon at a time, tossing with fork until all flour is moistened and pastry almost cleans side of bowl (1 to 2 teaspoons more water can be added if necessary).
Gather pastry into a ball. Divide in half; shape into 2 flattened rounds on lightly floured surface. Wrap in plastic wrap; refrigerate about 45 minutes or until dough is firm and cold, yet pliable. This allows the shortening to become slightly firm, which helps make the baked pastry more flaky. If refrigerated longer, let pastry soften slightly before rolling.
Heat oven to 425°F. With floured rolling pin, roll one pastry round into round 2 inches larger than upside-down 9-inch glass pie plate. Fold pastry into fourths; place in pie plate. Unfold and ease into plate, pressing firmly against bottom and side.
In large bowl, mix sugar, 1/4 cup flour, the cinnamon, nutmeg and 1/8 teaspoon salt. Stir in apples until well mixed. Spoon into pastry-lined pie plate. Cut butter into small pieces; sprinkle over filling. Trim overhanging edge of pastry 1/2 inch from rim of plate.
Roll other round of pastry into 10-inch round. Fold into fourths and cut slits so steam can escape. Unfold top pastry over filling; trim overhanging edge 1 inch from rim of plate. Fold and roll top edge under lower edge, pressing on rim to seal; flute as desired. Cover edge with 2- to 3-inch strip of foil to prevent excessive browning.
Bake 40 to 50 minutes or until crust is brown and juice begins to bubble through slits in crust, removing foil for last 15 minutes of baking. Serve warm if desired.

Bawanna
03-01-2012, 03:59 PM
I apologize for ignoring these political threads. I keep telling myself I have to look no matter how much they get my blood boiling.
Be nice if would could come up with good topics of discussion without resorting to politics. The people here on the forum pretty much know what they need to know. So ugly discussion doesn't help anything really.

Anyhow when it gets to the point where Tinman is sharing his pastry recipes I think we've bottomed out.

Chao.