Tell me again it's not the dems trying to take our guns?

[Chief Joseph]

Voting dem and believing in gun rights. How big the disconnect is.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/iowa-house-dems-walk-out-in-protest-of-gun-bills/

[TriggerMan]

Voting dem and believing in gun rights. How big the disconnect is.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/iowa-house-dems-walk-out-in-protest-of-gun-bills/

While it may be that, in general, more Dems are anti-gun, this is a piss poor example. In fact, its no example at all. This is a tiff over a procedural matter. Pure politics about partisanship.

Fail for you Chief.

[muggsy]

Chief, any gun owner who would vote for a liberal progressive democrat deserves to lose his guns.

[muggsy]

While it may be that, in general, more Dems are anti-gun, this is a piss poor example. In fact, its no example at all. This is a tiff over a procedural matter. Pure politics about partisanship.

Fail for you Chief.

Did you ever stop to think that they may have walked out over a procedural matter to show their solidarity in opposition to the bills? It's an old political trick that placates the base. Democrats are very good a feigning outrage.

[chrish]

not gonna comment about the dem vs gun control issue.

but glad i don't live in that state, or any state where either party pulls this garbage. it may well have happened at some point here in VA, not sure and hope i don't find out about it when it does.

i walk into work EVERY FREAKIN DAY and i end up having to work on something that wasn't on the agenda for the day. it's called WORK. and we are paying these peoples salaries and they don't WORK. it's about all i can stand to sit here and type this. our government is so out of control it's not even funny anymore, i can't even joke about it and laugh at the sheer stupidity anymore.

[TriggerMan]

not gonna comment about the dem vs gun control issue.

but glad i don't live in that state, or any state where either party pulls this garbage. it may well have happened at some point here in VA, not sure and hope i don't find out about it when it does.

i walk into work EVERY FREAKIN DAY and i end up having to work on something that wasn't on the agenda for the day. it's called WORK. and we are paying these peoples salaries and they don't WORK. it's about all i can stand to sit here and type this. our government is so out of control it's not even funny anymore, i can't even joke about it and laugh at the sheer stupidity anymore.Amen, brother, amen.

[popgoestheweasel]

Voting dem and believing in gun rights. How big the disconnect is.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/iowa-house-dems-walk-out-in-protest-of-gun-bills/

What if gun rights are NOT the biggest, or even a big concern for a voter? What if a voter feels there are MUCH more important concerns such as having a good paying job, paying the bills, owning a home with all the comforts and conveniences, feeding the family (try eating a gun), educating and keeping the children/family healthy, etc. etc? What if a voter has lived a long life, still has his/her guns, and doesn't sense any realistic fear of ever having someone take away their guns? IF their guns were taken, life would go on. BTW, what guns has the Government taken from you, your parents, grandparents?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the RKBA and upholding our Constitutional rights. Guns are great, but, could there possibly be something more important?

[TheTman]

There used to be conservative Democrats, mostly from the South, they called them Dixiecrats, that would uphold your RKBA, but I believe most have either been driven from the party or left on their own after the left wingers got control of it. I have a friend down South that voted Democrat his whole life until the 08 election, and then had to rethink his values. He's torn between the RKBA, and his labour union ties, he is a big union supporter.
There are a lot of important issues, as popgoestheweasel suggests, but I think the republicans have better ideas than just to tax the rich more and dole out the money to no good bums that want to make more babies so they get more from welfare. I've been told that small business create a majority of the jobs across the nation, and that if govt. would get out of the way with all the red tape, and OSHA and EPA concerns, and everything they have to go through to run their business, and not tax them to death because on paper they are "rich" then our economy would improve a great deal.

[Chief Joseph]

There used to be conservative Democrats, mostly from the South, they called them Dixiecrats, that would uphold your RKBA, but I believe most have either been driven from the party or left on their own after the left wingers got control of it. I have a friend down South that voted Democrat his whole life until the 08 election, and then had to rethink his values. He's torn between the RKBA, and his labour union ties, he is a big union supporter.
There are a lot of important issues, as popgoestheweasel suggests, but I think the republicans have better ideas than just to tax the rich more and dole out the money to no good bums that want to make more babies so they get more from welfare. I've been told that small business create a majority of the jobs across the nation, and that if govt. would get out of the way with all the red tape, and OSHA and EPA concerns, and everything they have to go through to run their business, and not tax them to death because on paper they are "rich" then our economy would improve a great deal.

Well said. I remember when I started my business with 500 dollars and a dream. By the time the city, county, state and feds got done with me, it was a nightmare. Unfortunately, all those "fees" and regulations "aka hoops" they made me jump through I wasn't sure I would make it. All this is hidden from the public, they think you start a business and you're rich. So sad, I think everyone should have to start a business, just for the education alone. But then again, if they were actually educated about how the real world works, the dems would lose their base.

[Chief Joseph]

What if gun rights are NOT the biggest, or even a big concern for a voter? What if a voter feels there are MUCH more important concerns such as having a good paying job, paying the bills, owning a home with all the comforts and conveniences, feeding the family (try eating a gun), educating and keeping the children/family healthy, etc. etc? What if a voter has lived a long life, still has his/her guns, and doesn't sense any realistic fear of ever having someone take away their guns? IF their guns were taken, life would go on. BTW, what guns has the Government taken from you, your parents, grandparents?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the RKBA and upholding our Constitutional rights. Guns are great, but, could there possibly be something more important?

For the sake of this forum, gun rights come first. If the other bother you, nobamas man chu has ONCE AGAIN stated this presidents party's policy on fuel, they WANT HIGH PRICES. They have no intention to try to reduce them. Add in his statements to shut down coal and good luck getting any of those things you want. I'd sure like to know how his "fundamental change" of America into a communist nation will supply any of that. My business partner had the good fortune to visit East Berlin before the wall fell. Loved telling the tale of how they made efforts to make it look appealing, but to a westerner it was incredibly economically depressed. You want to see our future under nobama? Look at europe, all the collapsing countries like greece, spain, the rest. And as far as education, private schools do a much better job at a far lower cost than the public option. At my childs school they used to have summer school through teachers donating time. The UNION shut it down. That's how liberals "work" for our kids.

[U.S. Patriot]

Democrats, Republicans, they are all big Government crooks! Or as I like to call them, Demopublicans.

[muggsy]

What if gun rights are NOT the biggest, or even a big concern for a voter? What if a voter feels there are MUCH more important concerns such as having a good paying job, paying the bills, owning a home with all the comforts and conveniences, feeding the family (try eating a gun), educating and keeping the children/family healthy, etc. etc? What if a voter has lived a long life, still has his/her guns, and doesn't sense any realistic fear of ever having someone take away their guns? IF their guns were taken, life would go on. BTW, what guns has the Government taken from you, your parents, grandparents?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the RKBA and upholding our Constitutional rights. Guns are great, but, could there possibly be something more important?

The right to keep and bear arms is the right that safeguards all others. There is no more important issue.

[muggsy]

I don't vote republican or democrat. I vote conservative. Find me a conservative democrat and I'll vote for him or her in a heartbeat. The problem with the democrat party is that it has been taken over by the extreme progressive socialist left. Anyone who doesn't toe the line gets thrown out of the party. A prime example was their former vice presidential candidate Joe Lieberman who is now an independent.

[Chief Joseph]

Democrats, Republicans, they are all big Government crooks! Or as I like to call them, Demopublicans.

Don't confuse the Conservative side of the Republicans with the progressive side. W., mccain, unfortunately romney too, are progressive. Actively working to NOT elect the progressive R's within the party will save us. Although, the progressive R's are still better than dems, the dems have completely become the communist revolutionary party.

[Chief Joseph]

I don't vote republican or democrat. I vote conservative. Find me a conservative democrat and I'll vote for him or her in a heartbeat. The problem with the democrat party is that it has been taken over by the extreme progressive socialist left. Anyone who doesn't toe the line gets thrown out of the party. A prime example was their former vice presidential candidate Joe Lieberman who is now an independent.

Absolutely agree.

[popgoestheweasel]

There used to be conservative Democrats, mostly from the South, they called them Dixiecrats, that would uphold your RKBA, but I believe most have either been driven from the party or left on their own after the left wingers got control of it. I have a friend down South that voted Democrat his whole life until the 08 election, and then had to rethink his values. He's torn between the RKBA, and his labour union ties, he is a big union supporter.
There are a lot of important issues, as popgoestheweasel suggests, but I think the republicans have better ideas than just to tax the rich more and dole out the money to no good bums that want to make more babies so they get more from welfare. I've been told that small business create a majority of the jobs across the nation, and that if govt. would get out of the way with all the red tape, and OSHA and EPA concerns, and everything they have to go through to run their business, and not tax them to death because on paper they are "rich" then our economy would improve a great deal.

I am not a small business owner nor have I tried to start one, so I ask the following question for the simple purpose of learning. -- Could you be more specific (perhaps add some examples) of ALL the "red tape, OSHA, EPA, and everything they have to go through" to run a business? The "tax the rich more" idea is clear, tyvm. I would also like to know how these "red tape" hinderances are directly and solely the result of the Democrats. Also, where can we find common ground and agree OSHA and the EPA provide a necessary service?


Well said. I remember when I started my business with 500 dollars and a dream. By the time the city, county, state and feds got done with me, it was a nightmare. Unfortunately, all those "fees" and regulations "aka hoops" they made me jump through I wasn't sure I would make it. All this is hidden from the public, they think you start a business and you're rich. So sad, I think everyone should have to start a business, just for the education alone. But then again, if they were actually educated about how the real world works, the dems would lose their base.

Again, specifics on ALL THOSE "fees and regulations". Are the "hoops" in play solely because of the Democrats? Can you mention WHY they might be in place and HOW they might actually be looked at as a good thing for 'average Joe' trying to make a good/honest/safe living? Also, does the city, county, state, or feds offer business owners some advantages or incentives for starting a business? Can we talk about them?

[jocko]

I can say this as a small busineman for over 40 years in a 69 year old family owned business. We sold Mobil gas for 69 years and when the epa and government regulated that all tanks under ground that were a cerain age, in years, basically had to come out of the ground or tested at a hell of a cost yearly for any leakages. #1 why would any businesman sell gas when he had a leak in the tanks, kinda defeated the purpose of makeing any profits, but that is besides the point. Our little business had 3 1000 gallon tanks under cement, They would not allow me to fill the tanks with sand and basicaly just go out of the gas business, and not tear up a perfectly good cement drive way no not good enough, I had to pull my 3 tanks out of the ground, by state and epa certified removal people. Not allowed to have John Doe down he street with a back hoe to do this for minimual charge. have the hole tested for any contaminants etc. This governmental cost at that time total to me was $5000. JUST TO GO OUT OF THE GAS BUSINESS..

No political party to blame here, just bureatcratic bull sh-t.

[Chief Joseph]

I am not a small business owner nor have I tried to start one, so I ask the following question for the simple purpose of learning. -- Could you be more specific (perhaps add some examples) of ALL the "red tape, OSHA, EPA, and everything they have to go through" to run a business? The "tax the rich more" idea is clear, tyvm. I would also like to know how these "red tape" hinderances are directly and solely the result of the Democrats. Also, where can we find common ground and agree OSHA and the EPA provide a necessary service?



Again, specifics on ALL THOSE "fees and regulations". Are the "hoops" in play solely because of the Democrats? Can you mention WHY they might be in place and HOW they might actually be looked at as a good thing for 'average Joe' trying to make a good/honest/safe living? Also, does the city, county, state, or feds offer business owners some advantages or incentives for starting a business? Can we talk about them?

When I started, I was in the city of portland oregon. If you know anything about my area, it's completely controlled by democrats and their public unions. So ya, all democrats here. To start, first thing was city business license, back then it was 100 up front, now I believe they charge based on gross sales, not profit and I believe they've added a county tax too, also based on gross sales, not profit. Then the health dept., had to pay them 250 up front and submit for permission, 250 non refundable regardless if permission was given or not. Plans approved, 1 week after opening, dept of ag showed up, stating that we were supposed to be under their control, not health, charged us 250, the health fee was NON REFUNDABLE. Dept of ag charges us 360/year and inspects 2 times a year, fee is based on gross sales, not profits. Fire dept started regular inspections, every time they came in 60 dollar fee. The county charges us a personal property tax, things like office supplys etc. Last 2 years, they charged us 450 per year, informing us our returns we filled out for less were "incorrect". We also pay a trimet tax, and I pay a separate self employment tax. All these are for a small business and are not based on profits, I could lose money and these would still be due. Want an idea? Go to the portland city web page.

[Chief Joseph]

I can say this as a small busineman for over 40 years in a 69 year old family owned business. We sold Mobil gas for 69 years and when the epa and government regulated that all tanks under ground that were a cerain age, in years, basically had to come out of the ground or tested at a hell of a cost yearly for any leakages. #1 why would any businesman sell gas when he had a leak in the tanks, kinda defeated the purpose of makeing any profits, but that is besides the point. Our little business had 3 1000 gallon tanks under cement, They would not allow me to fill the tanks with sand and basicaly just go out of the gas business, and not tear up a perfectly good cement drive way no not good enough, I had to pull my 3 tanks out of the ground, by state and epa certified removal people. Not allowed to have John Doe down he street with a back hoe to do this for minimual charge. have the hole tested for any contaminants etc. This governmental cost at that time total to me was $5000. JUST TO GO OUT OF THE GAS BUSINESS..

No political party to blame here, just bureatcratic bull sh-t.

Yep, that's why almost all stations now are big corp stations. It's all part of the crony capitalism. Big business using liberal government to drive out their competition. Right now ge is making billions on this whole light bulb bs. Add in all the billions lost on the solar companies. And guess who gets all that fed money donated right back into their reelection campaigns, democRATS.

[carkarrier]

I am a proud South Carolinian for one reason. That reason is Senator Jim DeMint. We need a congress full of men like him. You may not agree. That is your right, and your right depends on the 2nd Amendment. They cannot be seperated!!!

[popgoestheweasel]

I think I get it now. The RKBA is most important. In trying to keep this thread on topic, once again, what guns have been taken as a result of the Democrats?

[muggsy]

The Democrats don't want to take our guns. They only want to get rid of the Saturday night specials, saw off shotguns, guns with high capacity magazines, assault weapons, fully automatic weapons and cop killer bullets for your own safety. They only want us to register our guns so that they can determine how many free public shooting ranges that they need provide us. Gun registration has never led to gun confiscation. They didn't order all of those surplus M-1s and M-14 destroyed so that you couldn't own one. They just wanted to keep them out of the hands of criminals. You people who fear the all caring benign, liberal, progressive, socialist democrats make me sick. It's those heartless right wing conservative republicans who want you to accidentally shoot yourselves. Shame on you for besmirching the character of the democrat party. (If it walks like, talks like and smells like a gun grabber, it's a democrat)

P.S. Limiting gun purchases to one per month helps to stabilize the economy.

[JFootin]

The Democrats don't want to take our guns. They only want to get rid of the Saturday night specials, saw off shotguns, guns with high capacity magazines, assault weapons, fully automatic weapons and cop killer bullets for your own safety. They only want us to register our guns so that they can determine how many free public shooting ranges that they need provide us. Gun registration has never led to gun confiscation. They didn't order all of those surplus M-1s and M-14 destroyed so that you couldn't own one. They just wanted to keep them out of the hands of criminals. You people who fear the all caring benign, liberal, progressive, socialist democrats make me sick. It's those heartless right wing conservative republicans who want you to accidentally shoot yourselves. Shame on you for besmirching the character of the democrat party. (If it walks like, talks like and smells like a gun grabber, it's a democrat)

P.S. Limiting gun purchases to one per month helps to stabilize the economy.

Got that tongue stuck way over in your cheek today, huh Muggsy? :D

I think their thinking with the one gun a week thing is to stymie straw buyers that buy guns for illegal sale in other places such as New York City. But they just need to figure out a different way of stopping the straw buyers without hindering the 2A rights of law abiding citizens.

[popgoestheweasel]

Yep, that is ridiculous.

[jlottmc]

One gun a month gets expensive. FYI, Muggsy just used a literary element call sarcasm and the thing about that is the truth is shown through snark. The dems really do think like that. Maybe some day them and the people who follow them will open their eyes. Back to my regularly scheduled :popcorn:.

[tv_racin_fan]

Open their eyes?

Shucks I just wish I could get one to explain why an AR 15 with more than a certain number of defined features is an evil assault weapon and an AR 15 with less than that number is simply a sporting rifle. I wish I could get one to explain how an SKS from one country is apparently inherently more dangerous to society than an SKS from any other country on earth.

On a much happier note I am learning how to build a suppressor for less than $100. Alas and of course, you still get to remit that $200 for the tax stamp.