Showing your gun

[AIRret]

If you show your gun to discourage an attack is that brandishing?

Does "stand your ground" allow you to show your gun without legal consequence?

[mr surveyor]

if you "show your gun" and stop the "attack", be the first to call 911 and give a full report...and follow every instruction given to you by leo

[K.C.]

If you show your gun to discourage an attack is that branding?

If the situation dictates that you absolutely feel you have to pull your firearm to stop an attack than so be it, if they digress and leave so do you.


if you "show your gun" and stop the "attack", be the first to call 911 and give a full report...and follow every instruction given to you by leo

Call 911 and make a recorded confession of a situation that I can handle myself? No thanks!

[OldLincoln]

If you don't call 911 & report that you were approached, feared for your life and drew your gun which scared the guy off, you will likely find they called and reported some fool draw a gun on them and they ran for their life, giving your description. Guess who the police will believe. If you said the first call they get you win.

[JFootin]

If you don't call 911 & report that you were approached, feared for your life and drew your gun which scared the guy off, you will likely find they called and reported some fool draw a gun on them and they ran for their life, giving your description. Guess who the police will believe. If you said the first call they get you win.

I'd say this would most likely be the case if the person you scared away was some hot head or road rager. Less likely if he was a mugger, car jacker or something.

[ptoemmes]

I have this nagging question if there is a - legal - different in showing your firearm while holstered versus drawn - and to be anal - versus drawn and aimed at the subject BG.

Based on my read of the Florida Statute and subsections it appears that if you have a proper CCP you can either accidentally or even purposefully display/show your (holstered) firearm even in a non self defense situation as long as ...well repeated below.

Needless to say, if I read correctly, you are on good legal ground if you display/show your (holstered) firearm in a self defense situation.

Note that the ordinance does not say anything about holstered (so I used parens above) so my further interpretation is that you might be ok even if you unholster/draw the firearm.

In any case you may be subject to the - rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner - caveats, but I assume that the situation - true self defense versus any other situation - will have a bearing on any post event determination.

I have not - yet - found any definition of "self defense situation" though I believe that may depend on your belief (and the reasonable persons belief test) of fear of loss of life most notably including yours.

So, I believe the answers to the OP's questions are No and Yes if showing means while holstered and perhaps even drawn and not aimed. If drawn, aimed, and not fired I think the answers should be the same in a self defense situation, but that is apparently not at all 100% clear in Florida based on the statute. Of course without legal consequence may be the end result of a very long and stressful legal process.


"
790.053 Open carrying of weapons.—
(1) Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm or electric weapon or device. It is not a violation of this section for a person licensed to carry a concealed firearm as provided in s. 790.06(1), and who is lawfully carrying a firearm in a concealed manner, to briefly and openly display the firearm to the ordinary sight of another person, unless the firearm is intentionally displayed in an angry or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense.
(2) A person may openly carry, for purposes of lawful self-defense:
(a) A self-defense chemical spray.
(b) A nonlethal stun gun or dart-firing stun gun or other nonlethal electric weapon or device that is designed solely for defensive purposes.
(3) Any person violating this section commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
History.—s. 1, ch. 87-537; s. 173, ch. 91-224; s. 3, ch. 97-72; s. 1205, ch. 97-102; s. 3, ch. 2006-298; s. 1, ch. 2011-145.

...

790.10 Improper exhibition of dangerous weapons or firearms.—If any person having or carrying any dirk, sword, sword cane, firearm, electric weapon or device, or other weapon shall, in the presence of one or more persons, exhibit the same in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense, the person so offending shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
History.—s. 1, ch. 4532, 1897; GS 3272; RGS 5105; CGL 7207; s. 5, ch. 69-306; s. 743, ch. 71-136; s. 2, ch. 76-165; s. 174, ch. 91-224.
"

[AIRret]

hey ptoemmes, When I posted I meant to say "what if you show your gun without drawing" is that brandishing?

I just finished the post when I was called away from the computer so I missed my mistake.

[ripley16]

If recent events have shown anything, it is that if you use your gun, regardless of circumstance, you are in deep poo. Brandishing depends more on local attitudes by LEO, prosecutors and of course who you are or who you "flashed". The law and it's administration is purposefully vague and unpredictable. Much of the law enforcement attidudes today reflect anti-gun bias. Better to err on the side of caution in all things regarding use of your gun. Defending your life is one thing... scaring someone is viewed with entirely different eyes.

[K.C.]

If recent events have shown anything, it is that if you use your gun, regardless of circumstance, you are in deep poo.

(Using your quote as a spring board to support my previous post) "Recent events" illustrate the folly of calling 911 and recording a confession that can and will be used against you.

[ptoemmes]

hey ptoemmes, When I posted I meant to say "what if you show your gun without drawing" is that brandishing?

I just finished the post when I was called away from the computer so I missed my mistake.

IMHO - and that's all cause my opinion does not legally count - I do not think so. But, it's all about the situation and circumstances and - if and how - the splainin' goes down with the authorities.

I think ripley is spot on.

I stumbled across this from Florida: http://www.floridashootersnetwork.com/first-brandishing-lesson-t93384.html

Pete

[Bawanna]

I don't agree that most LE leans towards anti gun, certainly some do and that's undoubtedly a regional thing.

Far as showing your gun it would have to be viewed in the context of the situation. A covering garment pushed aside with no intent of trying to access the weapon I would not see as brandishing.

Sweeping your jacket aside during a conversation to put a hand on the gun, they'd almost certainly consider brandishing. But not drawing would be several points in your favor.

Now days it's pretty hard to predict what will happen over the most innocent little slip.

[MikeyKahr]

I agree with the fair gentleman from the Wet & Wild Pacific NW. It is about context and unfortunately is very subjective. Grand juries sure can be subjective!! ;) To the OP, check your local and state regulations for laws regarding showing/brandishing.

Here in Ohio, we don't have "Stand Your Ground" and our "Castle Doctrine" only applies to our homes, residences and vehicles. Even if we step foot outside on the porch, the rules change. Therefore, I wouldn't even think of showing (or brandishing) unless 1) I'm in fear for my life or the life of one of my loved ones and 2) I intend to use it to stop the threat. And I'll be very thankful if I never have to use it.


I don't agree that most LE leans towards anti gun, certainly some do and that's undoubtedly a regional thing.

Far as showing your gun it would have to be viewed in the context of the situation. A covering garment pushed aside with no intent of trying to access the weapon I would not see as brandishing.

Sweeping your jacket aside during a conversation to put a hand on the gun, they'd almost certainly consider brandishing. But not drawing would be several points in your favor.

Now days it's pretty hard to predict what will happen over the most innocent little slip.

[muggsy]

If you show your gun to discourage an attack is that brandishing?

Does "stand your ground" allow you to show your gun without legal consequence?

As it applies in CA.

http://www.shouselaw.com/brandishing-weapon-pc417.html

[AIRret]

Muggsy thanks for that web site. My husband and I are planning to visit CA in our RV this summer and CA laws are very different from Michigan. Do you know if the "castle doctrine applies to a RV? Also, is carrying bear pepper spray on a hike ok? Thanks!

[muggsy]

Muggsy thanks for that web site. My husband and I are planning to visit CA in our RV this summer and CA laws are very different from Michigan. Do you know if the "castle doctrine applies to a RV? Also, is carrying bear pepper spray on a hike ok? Thanks!

Don't know if castle doctrine applies to a motor home, but it should. I'm a Buckeye, no offense intended. As far as bear pepper spray is concerned, I'd feel more comfortable carrying a .44 mag. :)

[jimbar]

I've read the laws for Wa state, and as I understand it, according to part c of subsection 3, I am legal to show, or draw my weapon, without firing, and not be guilty of "brandishing". I certainly hope I'm never in a situation to make this choice, but hope if so, I do not take a life when just the drawing of a weapon will repel the threat.Everyone should be familiar with your states laws,...just in case.


RCW 9.41.270
Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm — Unlawful carrying or handling — Penalty — Exceptions.

(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

(2) Any person violating the provisions of subsection (1) above shall be guilty of a gross misdemeanor. If any person is convicted of a violation of subsection (1) of this section, the person shall lose his or her concealed pistol license, if any. The court shall send notice of the revocation to the department of licensing, and the city, town, or county which issued the license.

(3) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to or affect the following:

(a) Any act committed by a person while in his or her place of abode or fixed place of business;

(b) Any person who by virtue of his or her office or public employment is vested by law with a duty to preserve public safety, maintain public order, or to make arrests for offenses, while in the performance of such duty;

(c) Any person acting for the purpose of protecting himself or herself against the use of presently threatened unlawful force by another, or for the purpose of protecting another against the use of such unlawful force by a third person;

(d) Any person making or assisting in making a lawful arrest for the commission of a felony; or

(e) Any person engaged in military activities sponsored by the federal or state governments.
__________________

[wyntrout]

Accidental exposure is NOT "brandishing". All dictionaries define brandishing as waving an object in the air menacingly or threateningly. I think that lifting your shirt to expose your weapon purposefully to influence a situation might be considered brandishing, but it is a PURPOSEFUL exhibition... and intentional.

Wynn

[muggsy]

Dictionary definitions do not always equate to legal definitions. You have to check the laws in the jurisdiction that you're in if you want to be sure.

[U.S. Patriot]

Not calling the police and leaving the scene, will be considered leaving the scene of a crime. Yes, drawing is a felony. Unless there is a threat of bodily injury or death. Unless you want to go to jail, I do not advise it. If I feel like I'm in emanate danger of bodily injury and or death, and I can not retreat. Damn right I'm going to draw.

[CrabbyAzz]

From past experience I have noticed that the cops always work for the person who called them first. I've had this happen twice where a road rager called the cops on me and I ended up in front of a magistrate (with witnesses to back up my story of innocence). Both times the the person who called failed to show up for the hearing. When I tried to file charges against the people in question, the police where completely disinterested. These were two different occasions and different people. So my take would be, call the cops before he does.....

[wyntrout]

If you display your weapon... in any way... to influence a situation, it's the same as drawing the weapon... illegal, unless this was in self defense. This is an intentional display. If you did this because you felt threatened, it was in self defense, but if the other person reports you FIRST, then it could be construed as brandishing, and you would be at fault. This is something you don't do lightly... without thought.

Wynn:)