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Ljutic
04-15-2012, 01:26 AM
My Boberg arrived this week and I've had the chance to finish my review. It's pretty flippin' awesome.

http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2012/04/wish-list-update-boberg-xr9-s-review.html

jocko
04-15-2012, 05:52 AM
nice review,and"fair and balanced I don't know whatI was thinking but I thought the Bobeg wasgonna be ultrasmall over all the other small9's out thereand ur photo comparison of the XR9 and PM9 looks almost identical, certainly IMO not alot to get excited about either way.

Nice review, glad to see it performed as desgned to.

kerby9mm
04-15-2012, 07:37 AM
Seems like a quality gun. Small but strong. I personally like new ideas when they work and this one works.

wyntrout
04-15-2012, 08:41 AM
Great review! Those first shots with the reactive targets were awesome.

Thanks!

Wynn:)

JFootin
04-15-2012, 09:44 AM
Very, very thorough and pofessional review. It seems that Arne doesn't believe in using customers as beta testers. Very commendable that he took all of those months to test and refine the design so that we see these guns working properly in customer's hands.

I personally think that, like the PM9, the gun is too big and thick for pocket carry. JMO, YMMV. But a very neat package for carry on the waist.

I would like to see the original, longer barreled design, which would still be very concealable and would produce considerably higher velocity to enhance the performance of 9mm ammo.

Longitude Zero
04-15-2012, 10:03 AM
Excellent review and interesting gun. I too applaud the designer for taking the time to get it right before letting it out on the market unlike DB and the kool aid drinking following with it.

This has the possibility of a niche firearm. Due to the cost I doubt it will ever be cosidered mainstream.

jocko
04-15-2012, 10:55 AM
probably not alot of these guns out yet to get a IMO real reliability opinion. Shooters seem to bring the best and the worst out in any gun.. I remain skeptical only because it is a totally new design with alot of moving parts. The fact that it took him some years to get it out could also be finances to. this has to be a very expensive adventure on his part. What kind of warranty does he give with this gun??? That will also tell one alot IMO.

TheTman
04-15-2012, 11:11 AM
He only gives a 3 year warranty in writing. I have a feeling he'll work with you after the warranty is up if you have any problems that are the guns fault. I hadn't the chance to compare mine to a pm9. The overlays they do on the Boberg site made it look closer in size to a p380. I think I did publish a pic of it next to my CW40. It's much smaller than the CW40 is of course. The PM9 looked a little shorter probably due to it's 6 round mag compared to the Bobergs 7rd standard mag.

jocko
04-15-2012, 11:14 AM
3 years seems long enough.

TheTman
04-15-2012, 11:22 AM
I thought it should be lifetime warranty for first owner at least, being such a new design. But if a pistol would fail after 3 years, I bet he'd pay to have a look at it and fix it, that's kind of how Arne Boberg comes across when he deals with the public on his forum. He really wants this gun to work out and be dependable and considered a high quality firearm.

TheTman
04-15-2012, 11:28 AM
I've been carrying the Boberg more as the weather gets nicer and it conceals very well in a front pocket with an untucked t shirt.

Longitude Zero
04-15-2012, 11:36 AM
3 Years...OK
5 Years...Better
Lifetime...Best

TheTman
04-15-2012, 11:54 AM
I was surprised to see the price go UP once they started producing them. Their just under the $1k mark now. I bet if he could add more machinery, and produce more and get them down to around $600-700 that he'd have a real winner on his hands. I think now he just has one assembly line and is only producing around 200 a month. He's been very active on his forum, requesting anyone with the slightest problem to send the gun in so he can see what's going on. I think his curiosity will effectively extend the warranty period. I've had a chance to speak with him on the phone and he comes across as a very concerned engineer that wants to see his baby do well. He's also comes across as one hell of a decent guy both on the phone and on his forum. We spent probably 20 minutes on the phone talking guns and stuff. I was impressed he'd take that much time to visit with one customer buying one gun.

TucsonMTB
04-15-2012, 01:08 PM
Nice review! It's almost like having one in hand. Thank you for the in person exposure.

During the take down video, it sounds and looks like the pistol is very dry. I wonder if (along with the newness that you mention) the lack of lubrication made it harder to take apart and reassemble?

Thanks for the great photos too. It might be fun to destroy one or two of my extra magazine springs by trying to fashion a spring for my PM40 that doesn't need a follower. In addition to increasing the round count in the magazine, it might be possible to eliminate some of the goofy behavior of the current plastic follower. That would be nice.

Anyway, as unlikely as it is that I will ever own one of these, I really appreciate your sharing your fun! :)

muggsy
04-15-2012, 01:47 PM
That gun is as ugly and chunky as my little sister, but like my little sister I think that I could come to love her. The price is a bit high though, so I think that I'll stay with my CM9.

TheTman
04-15-2012, 02:58 PM
The looks grow on you, I think it kind of has a futuristic look to it. It's a handy little package to toss in your pocket and make a quick run down to the market. The high price is certainly an issue, but he is selling all he can make at the moment. I think Ljutic says they only have around 450 sold at the moment, probably according to his serial number, and there is still a waiting list to fill before they go on sale to the public. I think they are set up to only make 200 a month or so. Some were buying 2 and selling one on Gunbroker for close to twice the price they paid. I saw one guy on the forum had bought 4 or 5 and was keeping them all, must be nice to be able to do that.

?'s for Ljutic:
Did your gun come with a warning not to use Federal's cheap practice ammo from Walmart due to the bullets separating from the cases?
Have you decided on a carry ammo for it? I'm going with 124gr Hydra Shoks due to accuracy and availability.
Did you get any rounds hung up when chambering the first round. I found if you don't cycle the slide vigourously on that first round it can hang up and is kind of a bear to get unhung.
I've only run WWB, Sellier & Beloit and Hydra Shoks through mine, and all have performed well.

I took mine right out of the box and fired a couple hundred rounds through it, it seemed to be lubed well enough for that, after that I broke it down and put some TW25 on the rails and remoil on the other lube points. Arne told me he was shooting for the "out of the box" reliability so I took him at his word and tried it and it shot great.
it seems to me the trigger smooths out some the more you fire/dry fire it. Still not as smooth as Kahr's but not far from it either, I think that can be attributed to it being hammer fired, rather than striker fired.
I hope they get enough sold so that one of the laser makers will make a grip with a laser in it, like the 1911 laser grips.

Ljutic
04-15-2012, 03:29 PM
?'s for Ljutic:
Did your gun come with a warning not to use Federal's cheap practice ammo from Walmart due to the bullets separating from the cases?
Have you decided on a carry ammo for it? I'm going with 124gr Hydra Shoks due to accuracy and availability.
Did you get any rounds hung up when chambering the first round. I found if you don't cycle the slide vigourously on that first round it can hang up and is kind of a bear to get unhung.
I've only run WWB, Sellier & Beloit and Hydra Shoks through mine, and all have performed well.



I've got some answers for you.

Yes, the documentation did include a warning to avoid Federal bulk pack ammo. The strange thing is that American Eagle is a Federal product and it worked great.

I'd like to use Federal HST 124 grain +P in mine, but I have not decided that yet.

I read the comments on the Boberg forum about the need to let the slide go and really let it slingshot the round into the chamber. I read this before heading out the range so I only had one issue with charging the empty pistol from a full mag. I dropped the mag, tried to wiggle the round out, ended up putting the mag back in and pulling back fully and letting go fully. The round did chamber.

I had so much ammo that I wanted to shoot yesterday, but if you watched the video you know how difficult it was for me to keep a target in place. I guess I could have just dumped rounds into the berm without a target, but I'd rather not waste the ammo. I really didn't like wasting the chronograph rounds, but I had to do it to see if the velocity claims were accurate.

Micha2u
04-15-2012, 03:37 PM
Good review...I'm interested in maybe getting one.

Something that bothers me is the ammo requirements.

Here's what I found on the Boberg Forum regarding problematic ammo:

__________________________________________________ ______

Known Incompatible:

Bitterroot Valley Ammunition (BVAC reloads) 115gr (2 separations in 150 rounds)
Blazer Brass (5 separations in 6 magazines)
Blazer Aluminum Case (2 separations in 9 shots)
Federal Champion (made prior to summer of 2010)
Independence 115gr FMJ (2 separations in 2 magazines)
Independence 124gr FMJ (1 separation in a case of 50)
MFS Russian Zinc Plated Steel Case 115gr (extra rounds ejected)
Sellier and Bellot 115gr and 124gr (Hard Primers but works well with 7.5lb trigger spring)
Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P (1 separation in 85 rounds)
Speer Lawman FMJ (2 separations in a case of 50)
Tula Steelcase 115gr (Hard Primers)
Winchester Silver Tips 115gr (1 separation malfunction in a case of 50)
__________________________________________________ __________

That's a lot of ammo that's a problem some of which I use on a regular basis in my Kahr CM9 with no problems (such asd the S&B 115 gr FMJ).

I wonder if a hand loader could run some of these through a Lee Factory Crimp Die with a taper crimp to be able to utilize some of this problematic ammo?

Longitude Zero
04-15-2012, 04:21 PM
I wonder why it is so finicky with ammo?

Bill K
04-15-2012, 04:22 PM
What a an awesome review you put together. Thanks for sharing it with us here at KahrTalk.

It amazes me that such a different, may I suggest complex design, performed without a hicup out of the box.

jocko
04-15-2012, 04:44 PM
I wonder why it is so finicky with ammo?

opinion: it is because it is pulling theround out of the magazine backwards instead of pushing it in forward. no way to get ammo separation going the regular magazine way b u I can see how this could be an issue with the boberg mags. and u wll never know it until it does it.

It is alot like round set back, u load and unload a rond enough and ur gonna push the bullet ion, the opposite here. Jst my two cents as never seeing one.

TheTman
04-15-2012, 05:11 PM
LZ, The Boberg yanks the cartridge from the back of the magazine, subjecting the cartridge to forces it does not usually encounter (I think I read it puts about 2-3 g's of force while pulling them back from the mag). It yanks them back with such force that occasionally the bullet separates from the case. A good crimp eliminates this problem. As Micha2u suggests, I suppose you could put a crimp on suspect loads and make them more reliable. I'm not sure I'd try that with steel or aluminum cased ammo, but I wouldn't think there would be a problem with brass cased ammo. Arne Boberg also says that some manufacturers use an adhesive instead of a crimp and that can also fail. I'd never heard of using an adhesive before, not sure what companies use that method. Of the brands mentioned, the ones that concern me most are the Speer and the Silvertip. I didn't have any problem with the Sellier & Beloit while shooting a box of 50. I'm not a fan of aluminum or steel cased ammo and don't use them often anyway, maybe a box of Blazer here and there in my 1911's.

BTW that was a very good review Ljutic!

HDoc
04-15-2012, 06:48 PM
Good review...I'm interested in maybe getting one.

SKnown Incompatible:
Bitterroot Valley Ammunition (BVAC reloads) 115gr (2 separations in 150 rounds)
Blazer Brass (5 separations in 6 magazines)
Blazer Aluminum Case (2 separations in 9 shots)
Federal Champion (made prior to summer of 2010)
Independence 115gr FMJ (2 separations in 2 magazines)
Independence 124gr FMJ (1 separation in a case of 50)
MFS Russian Zinc Plated Steel Case 115gr (extra rounds ejected)
Sellier and Bellot 115gr and 124gr (Hard Primers but works well with 7.5lb trigger spring)
Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P (1 separation in 85 rounds)
Speer Lawman FMJ (2 separations in a case of 50)
Tula Steelcase 115gr (Hard Primers)
Winchester Silver Tips 115gr (1 separation malfunction in a case of 50)
__________________________________________________ __________



Is that separation, as in the bullet detaching from the casing ? Never had that happen before!

Ljutic
04-15-2012, 09:26 PM
If the bullet isn't taper crimped properly, there is a possibility that the inertia caused by yanking the butt end of the case could leave the bullet in the magazine and an empty brass case moving through the loading process. This is not caused by the magazine grabbing the bullet in any way. If you are familiar with revolvers, the same thing can happen if revolver loads aren't crimped properly. The rearward recoil can pull the remaining bullets from their cases and end up binding up the cylinder.

The real downside is the powder goes everywhere inside the gun and has to be cleaned up. I read the forum and had plenty of available ammo options. The compatible list is much longer than the incompatible list. I even added the 147 Winchester Personal Protection to the compatible list by using it for part of my break in.

Jocko is right on that this is like bullet set back, but in reverse.

Ljutic
04-15-2012, 09:31 PM
FYI. This is the compatible list.

Known Compatible:
Aguila
115gr FMJ
American Eagle
115gr and 124gr and 147gr FMJ
Flat Point 115gr and 147gr FMJ
Black Hills
124gr JHP
+P 115gr and 124gr
Subsonic 147gr JHP
Brown Bear
115gr FMJ
Buffalo Bore
+P 147gr
Corbon
+P 115gr JHP
+P 115gr DPX
+P 125gr JHP
Federal
Classic Hi Shok 115gr JHP (3 separations from an old 1990's batch)
Guard Dog 105gr
Premium HST +P 124gr
Premium Hydra-Shok 147gr JHP
Premium Personal Defense 124gr and 147gr
Fiocci
147gr JHP
115gr FMJ
Hornandy
Critical Defense 115gr
TAP FPD 124gr and 147gr
XTP 115gr
Magtech
147gr Flat FMC
115gr FMJ
PMC
115gr JHP
Bronze 115gr FMJ
ProLoad
+P 124gr JHP
Prvi Partizan
158gr FMJ
RBCD
Performance Plus Platinum 60gr Total Fragmenting Soft Point
Remington
Golden Saber 124gr and 147gr JHP
UMC 115gr MC
UMC Leadless 147gr
UMC Target 115gr and 124gr MC
RWS
124gr RN
Speer
Gold Dot 124gr JHP or 147gr
Gold Dot +P 147gr JHP
Gold Dot GDHP 124gr
Gold Dot Short Barrel 124gr GDHP

Winchester:
NATO 124gr FMJ
Personal Protection 115gr and 147gr JHP
Ranger 124gr, 127 +P
Ranger Bonded 124gr +P
SXT HP
White Box 115gr Bulk FMJ

Wolf
115gr FMJ
Gold

Longitude Zero
04-16-2012, 08:18 AM
If the bullet isn't taper crimped properly, there is a possibility that the inertia caused by yanking the butt end of the case could leave the bullet in the magazine and an empty brass case moving through the loading process. This is not caused by the magazine grabbing the bullet in any way. If you are familiar with revolvers, the same thing can happen if revolver loads aren't crimped properly. The rearward recoil can pull the remaining bullets from their cases and end up binding up the cylinder.

Make sense to me. I have expierenced that in revolvers many times.

xRUSTYx
04-16-2012, 05:07 PM
I have one of my Boberg's for sale locally in Tennessee if anyone is interested!

Brand New - Never Fired. Asking MSRP ($1000) with No Wait! I will not ship, must be FTF!

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/46616-bnib-boberg-arms-xr9s/page__p__737058#entry737058

jocko
04-16-2012, 05:10 PM
Make sense to me. I have expierenced that in revolvers many times.

manhy back in the reloading days used the "inertia bullet puller" which was a hammer type object that u put the round in and banged it hard on a solid object and out popped the bullet.