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View Full Version : P45 Range Report...Don't know what to think.



In-Yo-Grill
02-25-2010, 05:55 AM
Well...after finishing in the break-in of the P380 I moved onto the big boy. I was using PMC 230gr FMJ ball ammo. My first box of 50rnds was smooth as silk. Not a FTF or FTE in the bunch. Half way through the second round of 50 I started to experience FTF's in the form of light primer strikes. I ended up with about 3-4 light primer strikes and was a little frustrated.

At the end I tried a couple of different types of SD ammo. I tried 5shot of the PMC Starfire ammo and got one light primer strike. Then I tried the Winchester Bonded ammo and got an FTF on 3 out of 5 shots. I'm thinking I should have tried the SD ammo before the gun got really dirty. Any thoughts from the brain trust here?

First pic was my first 10rnds of ball ammo. The second pic was after the first 50rnds. Still grouping to the right.

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll191/Fresh2Salt/My%20Guns/P2240006.jpg

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll191/Fresh2Salt/My%20Guns/P2240008.jpg

Here are a couple of pics of what the primer looked like. Seems like enough of a strike to me but I'm no expert.

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll191/Fresh2Salt/My%20Guns/P2240011.jpg

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll191/Fresh2Salt/My%20Guns/P2240013.jpg

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll191/Fresh2Salt/My%20Guns/P2240015.jpg

Vinikahr
02-25-2010, 06:01 AM
Weapons get really dirty after the first 50 rounds, it is expected that failure may happen. Clean, lube and repeat in 50 rounds intervals. That is what I do.

In-Yo-Grill
02-25-2010, 06:14 AM
Weapons get really dirty after the first 50 rounds, it is expected that failure may happen. Clean, lube and repeat in 50 rounds intervals. That is what I do.

Yeah I made a note to have a can of GunScrubber with me the next time I go to the range.

I really felt confident after the first 50rnds. Not a single hiccup. I should have shot the SD ammo first. Oh well...I guess I've got to go back...:cool:

getsome
02-25-2010, 08:17 AM
HI IYG, Thats some nice shooting there guy...Try Jocko's favorite 3M brake cleaner from NAPA which is the same stuff as Gun Scrubber but much cheaper, less than 5 bucks for a big can and it has a very powerful spray...Stick the tube in the clean out hole on the bottom of the slide (you may already know all this and if so forgive me) clean out that striker channel really good, you should see fluid flowing out both ends of the firing pin/striker channel and don't let any oil get in there and try again...If you still get light primer strikes then send it back and let Kahr correct the problem....Good luck with it....

ripley16
02-25-2010, 08:25 AM
Weapons get really dirty after the first 50 rounds, it is expected that failure may happen. Clean, lube and repeat in 50 rounds intervals. That is what I do.

Hmmmm...:confused:
That's not a very favorable outlook for reliability, especially in guns that are dedicated mainly for the purpose of being carried. Too many guns are available that are reliable and competent after going thousands of rounds between cleanings.

IMHO, a light strike is a mechanical failure unrelated to cleaning. Feed or ejection should not be compromised by as little as 50 rounds either...5000 maybe, but certainly not so few. If any gun is so close to the the edge of performance, it shouldn't be considered competent.

Having say all that... I don't believe the overall Kahr design is that persnickety. Something is wrong with your pistol.

Vinikahr
02-25-2010, 08:33 AM
Hmmmm...:confused:
That's not a very favorable outlook for reliability, especially in guns that are dedicated mainly for the purpose of being carried. Too many guns are available that are reliable and competent after going thousands of rounds between cleanings.

Kahrs are not Glocks even if we want them to be.


IMHO, a light strike is a mechanical failure unrelated to cleaning. Feed or ejection should not be compromised by as little as 50 rounds either...5000 maybe, but certainly not so few. If any gun is so close to the the edge of performance, it shouldn't be considered competent.
Not necessarily, you can have hard primers or the striker pin channel can be dirty which can hindrance the operation.

In-Yo-Grill
02-25-2010, 08:44 AM
I appreciate all the input. You guys know me...I'm gonna be patient and work with it a little longer before sending it in.

This time I'll shoot the SD ammo first to make sure it's not an ammo/striker channel problem. Process of elimination...

jocko
02-25-2010, 08:48 AM
that 50 round getting a gun dirty stuff is IMO pure b. S. Kahrs can take all the rounds you desire to put through it. Look at a kahr slide and a glock slide the similarity is there. They are very close to identical. Kahrs shoot clean, All guns get dirty. If I thought I had to clean my kahr every 50 rounds to make it reliable, i woud peddle it in a heart beat. Some ammo is cleaner than others, that is a given, but today most all american brand ammo is clean burning.

Definiltely do what someone mentioned about spray cleaning that striker channel. Also I have found when you insert that spray nozzle in that little clean out hole, that if you pull back on the striker at the rear and spray it helps clean also and then put the nozzle right up by the breech hole while holding that striker back and spray away and it will blow anything right out that clean out hole U need not take the slide all the way down to clean that striker channel. Your light strikes could indeed be some factory left over "crap" in the channel.

Just remember also you must let up on the trigger for it to comp[letely reset itself or you will get light primer strikers. More rounds down range and this gun and you will be OK. Your groupps are awesome. to correct for the rights being they are such tight groups,just move that rear sight a tad to the left. to me really great shooting. I wish I could duplicate that. You did not state at what distance that was either???That would help alot also.
Always check to make sure your recoil spring is on correctly to. Read and ReRead the manual.

500KV
02-25-2010, 08:51 AM
I would clean the striker and striker channel first.
If that didn't cure the problem, I'd call Kahr and have them send out a new striker and striker spring.

Had the same problem and the new striker and spring cured my CW40 light strike issue.
Good luck.

Vinikahr
02-25-2010, 09:02 AM
that 50 round getting a gun dirty stuff is IMO pure b. S. Kahrs can take all the rounds you desire to put through it. Look at a kahr slide and a glock slide the similarity is there. They are very close to identical. Kahrs shoot clean, All guns get dirty. If I thought I had to clean my kahr every 50 rounds to make it reliable, i woud peddle it in a heart beat. Some ammo is cleaner than others, that is a given, but today most all american brand ammo is clean burning.

Well he was shooting dirty ones, they are not Glocks, and after breaking in period, I will only devote 50 rounds and clean (I am not a rich man). This is not a range gun, repeat this is not a range gun, it is a self defense weapon. This is my own views and practices, everybody else can do whatever they want and or whatever works for them.


Definiltely do what someone mentioned about spray cleaning that striker channel. Also I have found when you insert that spray nozzle in that little clean out hole, that if you pull back on the striker at the rear and spray it helps clean also and then put the nozzle right up by the breech hole while holding that striker back and spray away and it will blow anything right out that clean out hole U need not take the slide all the way down to clean that striker channel. Your light strikes could indeed be some factory left over "crap" in the channel.In agreement! :third:

In-Yo-Grill
02-25-2010, 09:15 AM
that 50 round getting a gun dirty stuff is IMO pure b. S. Kahrs can take all the rounds you desire to put through it. Look at a kahr slide and a glock slide the similarity is there. They are very close to identical. Kahrs shoot clean, All guns get dirty. If I thought I had to clean my kahr every 50 rounds to make it reliable, i woud peddle it in a heart beat. Some ammo is cleaner than others, that is a given, but today most all american brand ammo is clean burning.

Definiltely do what someone mentioned about spray cleaning that striker channel. Also I have found when you insert that spray nozzle in that little clean out hole, that if you pull back on the striker at the rear and spray it helps clean also and then put the nozzle right up by the breech hole while holding that striker back and spray away and it will blow anything right out that clean out hole U need not take the slide all the way down to clean that striker channel. Your light strikes could indeed be some factory left over "crap" in the channel.

Just remember also you must let up on the trigger for it to comp[letely reset itself or you will get light primer strikers. More rounds down range and this gun and you will be OK. Your groupps are awesome. to correct for the rights being they are such tight groups,just move that rear sight a tad to the left. to me really great shooting. I wish I could duplicate that. You did not state at what distance that was either???That would help alot also.
Always check to make sure your recoil spring is on correctly to. Read and ReRead the manual.

I appreciate the kind words but don't be too impressed. My critical defense practice distance is 5-7yrds. This session was at 5yrds and I popped off a few rounds at 10yrds.

I think not letting the trigger reset was part of the problem when I was practicing rapid fire. I don't understand why I was having problems when shooting the SD ammo. Those shots were slow pull as I was trying to see if one brand grouped any better than another.

jocko
02-25-2010, 09:40 AM
Rapid fire can cause that, I have done it myself, Just takes more rounds down range to get the hang of it and used to the trigger. Only takes about a 1/4 of trigger reset to be good to go, but one must let up fully on the trigger to go through the entire firing process.

Still for 5 yards that is just still good shooting. Get good at that distance, I would not loose to much sleep beyond 15 yards either. I practice 95% of my shooting at `10 yards and under mostly 7 is my distance. I want to get good, and fast at that distance and basically just using POA shooting to. My groups with just trying to really sight carefully at 5 yards will be as good as yours but with POA shooting they will magnify alot but all will still be well within COM and 5X faster for shooting. I seriously doubt if a critcial situation arises that one will try to use the sights to its fullest, so I have always trained to make the front sight my "friend" and everything else will come into play by doing that Your groups will be good, maybe not hole touchers but your groups will be good but for sure with the POA at 5 to 7 yards you will be plenty fast in sight acquisition and that is what it is all about.

those groups to me anyhow show that you have decent trigger discipline and with a kahr that is a necessity for accuracy..

Just shoot it like you stole it...

ripley16
02-25-2010, 10:35 AM
Just remember also you must let up on the trigger for it to comp[letely reset itself or you will get light primer strikers.

:confused::confused:



I think not letting the trigger reset was part of the problem


Maybe, perhaps, I'll leave the door open, but...all of my pistols will reset only upon completely traveling forward again. At no point in the partial return travel does a Kahr reset, (as do many other pistol action), at least mine don't.

Not half way, not 3/4 way, but only after going all the way forward. Otherwise the trigger is limp and useless, thereby unable to cause a lightstrike, or anything else for that matter.

Color me thouroughly confused by the above statements. Correct me if wrong please.

In-Yo-Grill
02-25-2010, 01:47 PM
Rapid fire can cause that, I have done it myself, Just takes more rounds down range to get the hang of it and used to the trigger. Only takes about a 1/4 of trigger reset to be good to go, but one must let up fully on the trigger to go through the entire firing process.

Still for 5 yards that is just still good shooting. Get good at that distance, I would not loose to much sleep beyond 15 yards either. I practice 95% of my shooting at `10 yards and under mostly 7 is my distance. I want to get good, and fast at that distance and basically just using POA shooting to. My groups with just trying to really sight carefully at 5 yards will be as good as yours but with POA shooting they will magnify alot but all will still be well within COM and 5X faster for shooting. I seriously doubt if a critcial situation arises that one will try to use the sights to its fullest, so I have always trained to make the front sight my "friend" and everything else will come into play by doing that Your groups will be good, maybe not hole touchers but your groups will be good but for sure with the POA at 5 to 7 yards you will be plenty fast in sight acquisition and that is what it is all about.

those groups to me anyhow show that you have decent trigger discipline and with a kahr that is a necessity for accuracy..

Just shoot it like you stole it...

I'm trying to but I've already gone through 1000rnds of .45acp and that ain't cheap. Like I said I'm going to hit the range again soon and this time I'll shoot the SD ammo first and see what happens.

jocko
02-25-2010, 02:05 PM
:confused::confused:





Maybe, perhaps, I'll leave the door open, but...all of my pistols will reset only upon completely traveling forward again. At no point in the partial return travel does a Kahr reset, (as do many other pistol action), at least mine don't.

Not half way, not 3/4 way, but only after going all the way forward. Otherwise the trigger is limp and useless, thereby unable to cause a lightstrike, or anything else for that matter.

Color me thouroughly confused by the above statements. Correct me if wrong please.

indeed right. I did not explain it to well. But with a kahr you can let up about a 1/4" and reset the striker block, but yes indeed one must let up on the trigger completely to allow it to fire agan I guess that was confusing as it was to.

In practicing dry firing, one can just move the slide back a 1/4" to reset the striker bock and then letting up on the trigger for a full repull ofthe trigger., instead of totally racking the slide.

Ur right, sorry about that. If one does not let up on the trigger light strikes will occur.

gabell
03-02-2010, 04:51 PM
Good shooting!
What was your point-of-aim on your new P45 on these targets, and what was your distance?
My new P45 seams to shoot a little low of point-of-aim.

In-Yo-Grill
03-02-2010, 06:48 PM
Good shooting!
What was your point-of-aim on your new P45 on these targets, and what was your distance?
My new P45 seams to shoot a little low of point-of-aim.

I held my POA right over to just above "12 o'clock" the target and seemed to hit real well. Most of my practices are from 5-7yds.

WinstonRomeo
03-11-2010, 09:52 AM
Like you, I do the vast majority of my shooting at 7 - 10 yds. It just seems to make sense to shoot at the most common 'long' distance personal defense distances. I'm not a bullseye shooter so I do not practice at 25 yds. My P45 shoots below POA, but I have found that I am putting my shoulder into the shot, anticipating the recoil. That will push shots low every time. I will continue to work with dry firing and trigger control as well as not anticipating. It is satisfying to shoot 50 rounds of 4'' one ragged hole heartburn even at 5 - 7 yds!

natpro7420
03-15-2010, 06:07 AM
I might be able to help but it's just a speculation. I just put 100rnds through my P45 on Friday and probably could have fed several hundred more (my problem is when patting in a new mag the slide slams shut). I think I might be able to help with the light primer strikes if cleaning has not worked because I was having the same issue on a friends sig p238. The slide release on the P45 can be in the way for some holds and I know I feel it with every shot. Check your hold, bumping the slide release or the slide may be enough to keep it from fully closing and this will cause light primer strikes less than a mm can do this. I was actually rubbing my thumb on the slide of the sig which was enough to stop it, I don't think you could do that on a P45 but the slide stop does get bumped a lot in recoil and it could easily cause the same issue. If you get another light strike try pushing/bumping (being careful with the muzzlew pointed down range and finger off the trigger of course) the rear of the slide and you may or may not fell a little bit of movement. Kahrs are notorious for having issues until they hit that magical 200th round and then it's like something magic happened. Burrs in the slide rail may also cause premature slowing of the slide in battery.

johnatw
03-15-2010, 06:28 AM
One thing I noticed, on the picture of the spent cartridge the strike on the primer is a clean dent, on mine all strikes create a tear drop shaped dent. This may not be important.

wyntrout
03-15-2010, 10:03 AM
I'm right-handed and when I shoot my PM45, my right thumb is away from the slide release and pointed down range. My left thumb overlaps and holds down my right thumb and is also pointed down range or only a tad to the right. I consciously try to keep any part of my hand clear of the magazine release, not for fear of releasing the magazine, but it's rough and not pleasant during recoil.
Wynn:)

jocko
03-15-2010, 01:47 PM
Like you, I do the vast majority of my shooting at 7 - 10 yds. It just seems to make sense to shoot at the most common 'long' distance personal defense distances. I'm not a bullseye shooter so I do not practice at 25 yds. My P45 shoots below POA, but I have found that I am putting my shoulder into the shot, anticipating the recoil. That will push shots low every time. I will continue to work with dry firing and trigger control as well as not anticipating. It is satisfying to shoot 50 rounds of 4'' one ragged hole heartburn even at 5 - 7 yds!

you have analyzed your shooting and u have also discovered what is pulling shots low. Most will just blame the gun and not try tos ee what is causing it. My hat is off to you. Most don't want to admit shooter error. Kahrs as u know are not the easiest gun to shoot 4" ragged holes even at 7 yards. I know, from over 25.000 rounds I still cannot do it. it is me not the gun but I just have shooting issues that at my age are I guess to inbedded.....

Nice report:hungry: