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View Full Version : Pic Link Now: PM9 - Missed the barrel lug, now back to the factory? - Not!!



hopkins92
01-11-2013, 01:01 PM
I bought a PM9 in 2006, but have never fired it. I thought now would be a good time to break it in, so I field stripped it for a little lubrication. When I reassembled it, I managed to get the slide stop pin in forward of the barrel lug. Now the slide won't go forward far enough to get the slide stop out.

According to the owner's manual, I get to enjoy sending it back to the factory for repair. How about that for a gun that's never been fired!

Comments, criticism, etc. will be greatly appreciated.

P.S. I'm a new member, so I posted here because I figure only newbies do this to their guns.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/22290867@N05/8385728596/15 January 2013: Here's a link to photos taken of the pistol several days after the incident. No photos were taken when the problem happened and a re-enactment is too painful to consider. http://flic.kr/s/aHsjDCVrCA
http://www.flickr.com/photos/22290867@N05/8385728596/

wyntrout
01-11-2013, 01:10 PM
Sorry, but that's the usual thing to do. One guy drilled out the pin and replaced it, but you risk damaging the pistol even more.

Everyone should watch the take down video for their series of Kahr and then pay close attention to re-assembling the pistol, BEFORE taking it apart and trying to put it back together. Then attention to detail is a must. Springs can be installed the wrong way and the slide lock pin MUST go through the barrel lug hole... and the slide lock pin must be inserted carefully to NOT damage the very important slide lock spring. This is a CRITICAL area and more people do what you did because they know better, but got complacent in the re-assembly.

The instructions are covered in the manual, too, with pictures(downloadable from Kahr.com). I know this isn't what you wanted to hear and I'm not trying to admonish you, but this happens a lot... even to "experienced" Kahr owners.

Wynn

hopkins92
01-11-2013, 01:16 PM
This is only the third time in 6+ years that I have taken it down. I guess I was lucky the first two times. Anyway, I tried to watch the videos using the links here, but they won't open for me. I'll have to see if they are somewhere else on the web.

I have field stripped M1 rifles, M14 rifles, M16 rifles, and M1911 Colts in the field and never had a problem. Maybe GI weapons are more idiot-proof.

wyntrout
01-11-2013, 01:28 PM
Yeah, I think they HAD to make them like that. The Kahrs are a compact pistol with many close tolerances and new designs... NOT really idiot proof.

Kahr.com:

http://www.kahr.com/

Downloadable manual:

http://www.kahr.com/PDF/kahrmanual.pdf

Take down video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=G2cZgVg_SwA

And the Frequently Asked Questions FAQ's:

http://www.kahr.com/faq.asp

Some of the Site Map links are circular... taking you back to the Site Map... not very helpful. Maybe they'll sort that out some day.

Wynn

dkmatthews
01-11-2013, 01:32 PM
Sorry for your luck, hopkins!

hopkins92
01-11-2013, 01:47 PM
Thanks, guys, the YouTube video worked. I'm going to go look at the gun again. It doesn't seem physically possible to get the slide stop pin in front of the barrel lug. The recoil spring on the gun in the video looks like it takes up all the room in front of the barrel lug.

One reason I joined this forum today is because other members remark on how fast they get replies. Well, they got that right!

wyntrout
01-11-2013, 01:53 PM
Welcome to the forum. I'm sorry that you are having this experience, and I hope that you get it corrected and find that your Kahr is a valuable tool for fun shooting and defense.

Wynn:)

hopkins92
01-11-2013, 02:42 PM
Okay, thanks again. Upon further inspection, the slide stop pin is definitely forward of the barrel lug. I'll be shipping the pistol back to Mother on Monday.

hopkins92
01-11-2013, 08:12 PM
I decided to work with this deal a little more before sending it to Kahr. After 12 hours on and off, I found that by inserting an empty magazine, the slide would move back far enough to tap the slide stop out through the forward slide stop cutout. It came apart with no apparent damage. Now I can plan a trip to the range for break-in.

dkmatthews
01-11-2013, 08:30 PM
I decided to work with this deal a little more before sending it to Kahr. After 12 hours on and off, I found that by inserting an empty magazine, the slide would move back far enough to tap the slide stop out through the forward slide stop cutout. It came apart with no apparent damage. Now I can plan a trip to the range for break-in.

That's awesome news! Congrats on your perseverance and determination. The more you use it, clean it and use it some more, the more familiar you will become with it until you can strip and reassemble it without looking.

Enjoy!

pineappleshooter
01-11-2013, 10:48 PM
That's awesome news! Congrats on your perseverance and determination. The more you use it, clean it and use it some more, the more familiar you will become with it until you can strip and reassemble it without looking.

Enjoy!

He wasn't looking the first time - that was the problem!:D

zamboni
01-12-2013, 12:29 AM
Now I can plan a trip to the range for break-in.

This is a very friendly forum and I don't mean to ruffle any feathers, but this scenario really irks me. You bought the gun 6 or 7 years ago. Why would you not break it in and make sure it was reliable then?

This reminds me of a buddy of mine who "has a shotgun for home defense". upon further inspection, the gun is in a sock in the back of his closet without a single shotgun shell in his house. When I found this out (about 4 months ago) I gave him a box of shells. As of a week ago the shells were still on the kitchen counter on the oposite side of the house as the shotgun. He feels safe because he has a shotgun, but in reality he has no idea or ability to use it.

My point is that guns are tools. As tools we need to know that they work and how they work if we really ever need to use them.

yqtszhj
01-12-2013, 07:14 AM
Good job fixing it. Now go shoot that thing and have some fun. :D

CJB
01-12-2013, 07:18 AM
This is sort of like a woman and shoes..... Vast arrays of footwear.... Entire wings of the domicile, warehouse inventories.... and, of the 6,468,331 pair of shoes the woman has, she wears the same three or four pair for everything.

But she sleeps much better at night knowing there are 6.468,327 more pair "just in case".

JFootin
01-12-2013, 08:44 AM
This solution needs to be stickied.

wyntrout
01-12-2013, 12:54 PM
That's great news, Hopkins. I just logged into the forum and saw a new sticky post by moderator Justin about inserting the magazine. That's a good fix and will save you a bundle!

I'm sure no one wanted to purposefully try getting a pin inserted like that to see if they could figure out a solution. It's nice to know that there is a fix that we can pass along now. Be sure and post exactly what you did so we can help others, because this happens way too often.

Wynn:)

muggsy
01-12-2013, 08:55 PM
This is only the third time in 6+ years that I have taken it down. I guess I was lucky the first two times. Anyway, I tried to watch the videos using the links here, but they won't open for me. I'll have to see if they are somewhere else on the web.

I have field stripped M1 rifles, M14 rifles, M16 rifles, and M1911 Colts in the field and never had a problem. Maybe GI weapons are more idiot-proof.

You can also find the videos on you tube.

warbird1
01-12-2013, 10:21 PM
hopkins92...that's good info!

addictedhealer
01-12-2013, 10:31 PM
I'm not really sure how you did it in the first place. Can you explain the mistake?

hopkins92
01-13-2013, 01:09 PM
I'm not really sure how you did it in the first place. Can you explain the mistake?

I guess I had the slide too far rearward when I pushed the slide pin in. I didn't notice anything wrong, so I cycled it a couple times and it jammed with the witness mark on the slide about 1/8 inch behind the mark on the frame. That trapped the slide stop pin in between the two cutouts on the slide. The slide would absolutely not go forward and would not move back far enough to use the stop cutout, either. Looking up the magazine well, I could see that the stop pin was not in the barrel lug. I tried everything under the sun to move it without undue force. Finally, I inserted an empty magazine and that let the slide move back far enough to let the crescent shaped bit on the slide stop pin clear the stop cutout. I was able to pry it out with my fingers and get the slide off.

I don't know anthing about the internal workings of the slide and the relationship with the magazine. I'm just glad it worked! I want to add that I did all this without using any tools on the gun. The gun is undamaged, but my hands are shredded.

muggsy
01-13-2013, 02:39 PM
Some of us learn the easy way and some of us learn the hard way, but most of us learn. Experience, both good and bad, is a good teacher. I prefer the easy way. :)

wyntrout
01-13-2013, 02:59 PM
Well, we learn things by others' mistakes... and sometimes... that person comes up with a fix... as hopkins92 did. BRAVO!

If everyone watched the Kahr take down video, they would see how to do it correctly, but you have to pay attention. You don't want to move the slide to the rear so that you miss the danged hole in the barrel lug. When I put my slides back on, I usually have to wiggle the trigger a bit... lightly pull it... then I rack the slide a few times and let it go back to the forward position. Then I make sure the hole in the barrel lug is lined up, before inserting the pin. I tilt the pin to the rear a bit to clear the front loop of the slide lock spring and then insert it partially. I rotate the slide lock around to the 3 o'clock position and line up the actuator on the right rear of the slide lock lever with the slide cutout and push the pin in vertically with a tiny bit of wiggle until the slide lock is flush. Then I pull the slide back until the slide lock notch is in place to engage the slide lock, but just test the SL by pushing the SL up and releasing it to see if the spring is engaged correctly on the rear of the slide lock to force the SL back down. I don't really use the "witness marks" as I'm watching the slide lock lever and trying to not bend the right part of the slide lock spring or scratch the polymer with the SL actuator.

This is all covered in the take down video... emphasized... as it is in the manual, because this is a very critical part of re-assembly and if you're not paying attention you can do a lot of damage to your pistol... and or cause malfunctions!

I check the tightness of the screw holding down the washer over the SL spring a lot, especially the P40, which is really prone to loosening. Careful here, though, because of the steel screw and plastic threads that are easily stripped. I wouldn't want to be charged for a new frame because I stripped those plastic threads!

Wynn:)

warbird1
01-13-2013, 04:23 PM
Much appreciated info for just in case!

hopkins92
01-13-2013, 08:33 PM
Well, thanks for the interest and the positive feedback. I didn't mean to start a 3 page thread on kahrtalk with my first post.

wyntrout
01-13-2013, 08:59 PM
This has been a great thread. You came here for help, but wound up helping US!

This problem comes up every once in a while and now we have a fix without sending it back to the factory. That's a great thing about this forum... we learn from each other!

Wynn:)

kerby9mm
01-14-2013, 01:42 AM
There is a u-tube called K9 Trick about inserting an empty mag then pulling the slide back while putting pressure on the slide stop. I tried it on my mk9 & mk40 and it works on both. The slide stop pops out with a noticeable click. I posted my results after watching the video but some said it didn't work on their guns. Anyway it works on mine and obviously in this thread also.

gb6491
01-14-2013, 10:25 AM
hopkins92,
Good job fixing that!
Would it be possible for you to post some photos of your barrel's lug and the inside of the frame where it sits?
I ask because on my two poly Kahrs, the barrel cannot be moved into a position where the stop can be inserted ahead of the lug. I believe there must be some barrel/frame variation that allows this to happen on some guns and I would like to see what that is.
Thanks again for posting your solution.
Regards,
Greg

wyntrout
01-14-2013, 10:47 AM
Yes! Please do it again... on video!

On the bright side, you're getting closer to enough posts to have an avatar!

Wynn:D

hopkins92
01-14-2013, 11:47 AM
hopkins92,
Good job fixing that!
Would it be possible for you to post some photos of your barrel's lug and the inside of the frame where it sits?
I ask because on my two poly Kahrs, the barrel cannot be moved into a position where the stop can be inserted ahead of the lug. I believe there must be some barrel/frame variation that allows this to happen on some guns and I would like to see what that is.
Thanks again for posting your solution.
Regards,
Greg

My close-up camera skills are hit-or-miss, but I'll try some still photos. I don't have a video camera. Anyway, I sure don't want to recreate the whole mess.

gulfwarvet
01-14-2013, 07:34 PM
Great info... glad we have another option before sending it back. Thanks

Sticky it!

Geobob
01-14-2013, 10:00 PM
Hello, Hopkins, and welcome from Missouri to a really great forum. Good people and info here!

Best wishes for a safe, prosperous New Year to you and yours, and hope you get your slide stop issue resolved quickly.

hopkins92
01-15-2013, 12:56 PM
Hello, Hopkins, and welcome from Missouri to a really great forum. Good people and info here!

Best wishes for a safe, prosperous New Year to you and yours, and hope you get your slide stop issue resolved quickly.


Thanks for the welcome and thanks for your service, Bob.

hopkins92
01-15-2013, 08:07 PM
hopkins92,
Good job fixing that!
Would it be possible for you to post some photos of your barrel's lug and the inside of the frame where it sits?
I ask because on my two poly Kahrs, the barrel cannot be moved into a position where the stop can be inserted ahead of the lug. I believe there must be some barrel/frame variation that allows this to happen on some guns and I would like to see what that is.
Thanks again for posting your solution.
Regards,
Greg

Well, Greg, I got a few pictures, but it's hard to get good ones inside the frame.

Here's a link to photos taken of the pistol several days after the incident. No photos were taken when the problem happened and a re-enactment is too painful to consider.
http://flic.kr/s/aHsjDCVrCA

:7:

gb6491
01-16-2013, 08:27 AM
Well, Greg, I got a few pictures, but it's hard to get good ones inside the frame.

Here's a link to photos taken of the pistol several days after the incident. No photos were taken when the problem happened and a re-enactment is too painful to consider.
http://flic.kr/s/aHsjDCVrCA

:7:
Hey,thanks for the photos!:)
After looking at them, it's pretty apparent why the slide stop pin can be inserted in front of the barrel lug on some guns and not on others.
The barrel on my CW9 (and CW45, all the following applies to it as well) is machined differently than your PM9's barrel. There is an area where the lug is thicker (side to side) on the CW9 barrel; plus the area in front of the lug hole is thicker (front to back). The CW9's frame is molded to accommodate the larger cross section of the barrel lug. It's also molded in a way that limits how far back the barrel can sit in the frame during assembly.
http://i45.tinypic.com/2re0bw5.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/2wqu8tt.jpg
Regards,
Greg

hopkins92
01-16-2013, 08:26 PM
Nice editing on the photos, Greg. My conclusion is, the smaller the pistol, the bigger the problem. I will have a heightened state of awareness from now on when I strip the PM9.

:nerd: