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View Full Version : Interested to hear about CT on PM9



Mr. Happy
04-10-2010, 12:00 PM
If you have the Crimson Trace laser on the front of the PM9, please discuss the good, bad, and ugly for concealed carry. At personal defense distances, does a semi-auto benefit?

I have the CT grips on my snubby revolver because I may need to defend myself with the revolver held at waist level, due to injury or struggle. But a semi-auto would be limp-wristed in those positions and won't function anyway, right? In other words, doesn't a semi-auto need to be held firmly enough to point shoot at self defense distances (0 to 10 feet or so)?

So, does a laser earn its way (weight-wise) onto a pocket semi-auto pistol for personal defense?

Thanks for your help!

jeepster09
04-13-2010, 08:44 PM
Well........my opinion is it defeats the SMALL size of a PM and makes the pistol less concealable. The Kahr's are made to be the smallest 9's [and 40's] made. I also feel at the distance this pistol is designed for "concealed carry", a lasor is not needed. For personal protection you normally are looking at the ten foot range, if you need a lasor at that range things are not looking good for you to be even carrying a gun. Also consider that if you shoot a bad guy much beyond that, the courts would frown at you and probably charge you for being the agressor and maybe let the poor sweet defensless bad guy go free.:confused:

recoilguy
04-14-2010, 08:41 AM
I can not agree with the previous poster in any way. I have a Kahr and it is equiped with the CT laser. To assume it hinders concealablity is wrong. My gun conceals perfect and with no interferance from the laser what so ever. There are many holster mfgs. who build holsters specifically for this setup. I can shot this weapon very accurately without the laser and with it the bullet will hit the red dot at 6 yards.

If I were to use the laser at 10 feet because I needed it, say I was knocked over or poked in the eye or it was darker then my eyes can focus quickly in, I would be very happy I have it equiped on the gun. In that case "things would look very good for anyone who has it to be carrying a weapon". The laser is a tool that when used properly is very effective, when relied upon soley is then misused. I would not say it is a must or that everyone should have one but I would not be bold enough to imply anyone without one somehow is less capable or qualified to carry a weapon. I think it is effective and well worth it for me. I would suggest it but not consider it manditory.

RCG

jeepster09
04-14-2010, 06:18 PM
Well I had one and found very LIMITED holster selection. I also feel the Crimson Trace is rather fragile. Every one has an opinion. I know I am happier without it. You may like it. Some people likes lots of chrome, some people only need function.;)
Heaven forbid if you ever by accident drop your gun, I think the Crimson would be a casuality.:75:

recoilguy
04-14-2010, 08:38 PM
Point taken!!! I know what you mean......some people like function, some people have the dexterity to simultaiously do more then one thing effectively.:D

If the crimson did break I could still make a hole right were I want with my gun. You need to practice for every situation.

Like I said I suggest it, I don't hink anyone has to have it.

Want to get together and shot some time, I am in the cities about 3 times a month......

RCG

jeepster09
04-22-2010, 06:43 AM
Instead of laser for close encounter carry gun.....carry this.

rogerthedodger
04-25-2010, 06:10 AM
Well........my opinion is it defeats the SMALL size of a PM and makes the pistol less concealable. The Kahr's are made to be the smallest 9's [and 40's] made. I also feel at the distance this pistol is designed for "concealed carry", a lasor is not needed. For personal protection you normally are looking at the ten foot range, if you need a lasor at that range things are not looking good for you to be even carrying a gun. Also consider that if you shoot a bad guy much beyond that, the courts would frown at you and probably charge you for being the agressor and maybe let the poor sweet defensless bad guy go free.:confused:
One point to remember, not everyone has perfect vision. The CT Laserguard gives you another tool in the event your glasses are knocked off. People with less than perfect eyesite have trouble seeing the sight, or target, and wear bi-focals. The CT gives them the ability to place the gun on target.:D

In-Yo-Grill
04-25-2010, 09:34 AM
Being familiar and accurate with the gun is first and foremost. There are enough holsters out there to choose and keep the PM9 concealed well. Like night sites I think it's important not to get dependent on the laser. I'm sure they can/have proved to be a useful tool in quick situations.

I've personally listened to stories where the laser alone was enough to ward off an attacker. That being the case it would be money well spent and the hassle of not having to make a statement to the 50.

Smoke Eater
06-16-2010, 02:42 PM
I have to agree with recoil and in-yo-grill, first and foremost is to be skilled and knowledgible of the firearm BUT there are situations that a CT would/could be very useful beside the fore mentioned eyesight and being knocked on your butt, what about in an automobile or just seated in general when you can't extend to a proper shooting position. The deterent factor is something to think about, SOME people are smart enough to stop what they are doing when the red dot appears on their chest!
As for concealing it the CT doesn't make much difference, I carry mine in my front pocket, there are plenty of great pocket holsters out there!

Bottom line is DO WHATS RIGHT AND COMFORTABLE FOR YOU!
Cheers,

Bawanna
06-16-2010, 02:57 PM
Where ya been Smoke Eater, haven't been around for awhile. Glad your back.

medezyner
06-16-2010, 04:44 PM
+2 for In-Yo-Grill. The deterent factor alone is worth the money, never mine what it will do for tied eyes. I cant speak for the CT on a PM9, but I put one on the kel-tec P3at and I couldnt believe the groups I was getting at 40'. That laser doubled the effective sight range. BTW, I unstitched the Desantis pocket holsetr and restiched to accomodate the CT and you cant tell the difference. Maybe the same can be done with the PM9 for pocket carry. I've been seriously considering the CT for my. PM9

capriaz
08-27-2010, 07:41 PM
BTW, I unstitched the Desantis pocket holsetr and restiched to accomodate the CT and you cant tell the difference.

I did the same thing with a desantis superfly for my CW9 CT equipted. I also have been using the CT for dry fire practice getting used to the DAO trigger. I also found a Uncle Mike's inside the pant size 15 fits quite nice. It isn't the easiest for reholstering but it is very comfortable.

SCUBASLOW
09-09-2010, 12:55 PM
Love my PM9 with the Laser sight LG-437. Basically, the gun is in one of three places, in my pants, in my car or on my night stand. I'm 65 and need reading galsses. Even with the night sight, would be hard pressed to shoot an intruder from the bed to the door without glasses. BUT, with the CTC the red dot is all I need. Hell, My wife can even do it.
Bought it for PP and every little bit helps.
Drop it, well at the price she would probably kick me in the a--.

Mdubtech
09-24-2010, 10:24 PM
All I have to say is just buy them! No more fussing with lining up the sights. Many self defense and tactical advantages. Just look at the pics, they speak for themselves.

BroncoAZ
09-28-2010, 10:29 PM
Like capriaz, I am interested in one for mastering the DAO trigger. I love the PM9 and shoot it well with the night sights, but firing on a snap cap with the laser to tell me how much I'm moving sounds like a good way to get better.

OldLincoln
09-29-2010, 12:45 AM
I wanted a laser for dry fire point shooting in the house. Problem is the laser doesn't stop when you shoot and is a permanent attachment I don't want.

I read about the LaserLyte Pro (http://www.laserlyte.com/Laser_Training_System/LT-PRO/LT-PRO.html) barrel laser insert that is sound activated by the striker firing for a 100 milliseconds so you can see where you shot. Being in the barrel means nothing else is (a good thing) and it removes very easily and quickly. Consider this if you want a laser for practice. It's $100 which you could save on ammunition.

I confess that based on what I know so far, I want one, but don't have it yet (perhaps for Christmas). My thinking is to do home drills using furniture as barriers, etc. I could work on draw and shoot, etc which I cannot at the range.

If anyone has one please tell us your experience with it.

BroncoAZ
09-30-2010, 08:41 PM
I don't like the idea of dry firing the gun all the time for practice with that sound activated training laser.

I found the LG-437 on google shopping for $152 shipped.

garyb
10-17-2010, 10:31 AM
Having read all the posts on CTL, having watched the CTL CD a couple of times, having seen the compact size, light weight and all the carry options (pocketholster; gould and goodrich; mitch rosen, etc....) which accomodate the PM40 with CTL installed; I see more advantages than disadvantages and will be picking mine up tomorrow. I'll let you know how it works out when I have time to get things going.

BillC
10-18-2010, 08:25 AM
I'm a newbe to this site. I just read all your comments in this post. I carry a CZ-CPR in Crossbreed or Smart Carry when clothing and activity permits, but a clothing print often prevents carry. After considering many other options, I have decided to purchase a Kahr for pocket and IWB carry. I'm thinking either a CW9. P9 covert or PM9. The CT is a consideration. What is your thinking on this?

BroncoAZ
10-18-2010, 09:18 AM
Any of those are a good choice for IWB carry, but unless you have some big pockets I'd go smaller than the CW9/P9 size. The PM9 is great for some people, but in dress slacks it looks like I have a heavy fat wallet. Casual or cargo pants are no problem, but I wear slacks 5 days a week. I had been using a Ruger LCP, but I recently got a P380 which works great for me.

BillC
10-18-2010, 10:01 AM
BroncoAZ, thanks for your input, I agree that this may be a problem. I have put a Kel Tec 9 in my pocket, seems to be O.K. Are you saying the PM print will be significantly more noticeable than the Kel Tec 9 print? I usually wear pleated kackies, work jeans or sometimes Lee boot jeans.

BroncoAZ
10-18-2010, 10:21 AM
I have owned the P9, CW9, and PM9. All three shot great with the P9/CW9 size being the more comfortable to shoot because of the 3 finger grip. I kept the PM9 because of the small size, it is great in an IWB holster. If you're paying the "penalty" of the PM9/P9 Covert only having 2 fingers on the grip with the flush magazine I couldn't keeping the .6" longer slide and barrel. Kahr must have agreed, they don't offer the P9 Covert on their web site anymore. There are a couple threads on here where people have cut the grip on a CW9 to match the P9 Covert size:

http://kahrtalk.com/p-cw-series-pistols/937-cw9-covert.html

Since this discussion is off topic for the CT forum, we should take this discussion to the P or PM series pistols forum.

PM Series Pistols - KahrTalk Forums (http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistols/)

jlottmc
10-18-2010, 10:59 AM
Since when do we get wrapped around the axle over off topic? I happen to know for a fact that most threads get hijacked on a regular basis. It's like a conversation between two people that know each other. No one starts at the beginning, then a piece of the topic will be discussed, and then move on to another piece of a topic. It's good like that.

BroncoAZ
10-18-2010, 11:04 AM
I'm not worried about off topic, but I think BillC will get a lot more input from other members if he posted in one of the pistol forums rather than this Crimson Trace laser forum where not too many people read it.

jlottmc
10-18-2010, 11:08 AM
Good point. I'll shut it now.

BillC
10-18-2010, 08:05 PM
Thanks fellas, I appreciate your candor. I was going to get around to the CT, but I thought the 1st issue would be which gun and then pros and cons of the CT.
anyway I appreciate your comments. Bill

earle8888
10-19-2010, 01:19 PM
Pocket carry PM40W/CT carry's great. Dryfireing with laser got to help. I have been using it /them for weak hand carry and use. only complaint--- cleaning laser after cleaning Kahr-- end up with -tios and 70% rubbiunbg alcohol.
way back at the funnyfarm, point/instinct shooting was practice by putting grease pencil/lipstick circle on room dressing mirror and while staring at mark draw and point EMPTY weapon. Laser is much much better

earle8888
10-23-2010, 06:45 PM
PS just read the CT manual. It says to remove laser when cleaning gun!!!!!
Anybody doing that? That would mean re-alignment every time you clean. If you clean after every shooting, like me, You would be constantly removing it!!

garyb
10-28-2010, 08:03 AM
On my PM40 the CTL is lined up perfectly with the sights at 15-20 yrds from a bench. It is useful for quick aim from point blank back to 20 yards. Everytime I have removed the CTL, when I replace it, it is in the same spot. I never need to readjust it. Sometimes I remove it for cleaning and sometimes I do not. It depends on the extent of the cleaning I do. The CTL is well under an ounce and size is not an issue. You simply need a holster that fits it www.pocketholsters.com (http://www.pocketholsters.com) and the gould and goodrich offered by Kahr, both work very well with and without the CTL installed. The CTL on the PM40 makes a fine pocket carry piece. The CTL is very visible on bright days at 10 yrds and under, but not very effective at greater distances. It is simply not bright enough due to regulations on the brightness. However, inside a building it is effective to far greater distances than are probably practical to shoot. It is amazing. Overall, the CTL makes a tremendous addition to the PM40 and would do the same on a PM9. It is an excellent tool for dry fire practice as you get a very good picture for how steady you held. The battery seems to hold up fantastic too. I was originally like most guys that felt the iron sights were all you need and change comes hard. I had my doubts originally when I purchased it, but now I am sold. It is an excellent tool and for ME, it is far faster to be on target with, especially when you are moving or the target is moving. It may not be for everyone because it is another gadget. I just don't leave home without it.

dirty_sanchez
10-28-2010, 07:10 PM
I'm a believer in these Crimson Trace Laser Sights.

I have them installed on a Glock 26, a G27, a G22, an LCP, and just installed them on a PM9 and PM40.

If you're on the fence on stacking the deck in your favor in just about every defensive situation you might encounter, just do it. Get it.

The PM40 carries just the same in my front pocket as it always did.

Dirty

joshh
11-03-2010, 08:23 AM
ive been considering the crimson trace for when i carry my pm9 in my weak front pocket for faster targeting. i have been shooting the pm9 weak hand and havent had any issues. i was born left handed anyway. ive always been concerned that the laser could easily be knocked out of position while carrying and would only expect it to be accurate out to around 15' or so.

garyb
11-05-2010, 09:07 AM
Josh, you won't regret putting a CTL on your handgun. It is good outdoors on a bright day to about 10 yrds. Indoors, low light or at night it is good way out there 25yrds+ . Light, compact, holds it aim well, rugged.... I have one on my PM40 trigger guard mode. Fantastic. Free batteries for life if you call 1-800-442-2406. I can not say enought positive. I don't understand those that talk it down and can only thing they don't have one, or have not tried it, or have not given it a good chance. Good trigger practice device too. A good tool that will give you a good edge. I rate it 5 stars out of 5.

rhd04
02-18-2013, 06:50 AM
IMO they are great! If you're like me you will want every advantage possible if a bad situation were to arise. I have the laser and I'm putting the xs big dots on my pm9 as soon as the get here.

MikeyKahr
02-18-2013, 08:48 AM
Love the CT on my PM9. Rock solid and has stayed aligned through my every day carry.

garyb
04-10-2013, 03:21 PM
If you have the Crimson Trace laser on the front of the PM9, please discuss the good, bad, and ugly for concealed carry. At personal defense distances, does a semi-auto benefit?

I have the CT grips on my snubby revolver because I may need to defend myself with the revolver held at waist level, due to injury or struggle. But a semi-auto would be limp-wristed in those positions and won't function anyway, right? In other words, doesn't a semi-auto need to be held firmly enough to point shoot at self defense distances (0 to 10 feet or so)?

So, does a laser earn its way (weight-wise) onto a pocket semi-auto pistol for personal defense?

Thanks for your help!

Have had my CTL on my PM40 for 3 yrs and have been very happy. In no way does it effect concealability. Wonderful in low light situations, but limited performance in bright sun. Does require holsters which fit it and there are several on market. I have 3 different styles, belt, IWB and pocket. Very reliable. Free batteries for life. Not fragile at all. Very stable and has maintained zero with no adjustments even with daily carry (pocket, IWB and belt). I highly recommend them on at least one carry gun, especially for night SD at home. Well worth the value. Give it a try for yourself and if you are not happy, send it back.

RevRay
04-10-2013, 04:44 PM
This has been a very interesting thread. Thanks everyone. I got a great deal (I think) on my CM9, with a CTL & 3 extra mags for $550. So far I have only been able to dry fire it, but I have to say I definitely like the CT for that. It is so easy to see if you're on target or not ... and I have pretty thick glasses, so I can use all the help I can get.

WLEEP
09-12-2013, 12:21 AM
Lovin' that Serbu Shortie!

Ugly_Dog
12-22-2013, 07:11 PM
had my crimson trace on my CM9 for several months now,love it more all the time! Easy target acquisition in all but bright sunlight, great for dry firing practice.

garyb
12-27-2013, 06:45 AM
This has been a very interesting thread. Thanks everyone. I got a great deal (I think) on my CM9, with a CTL & 3 extra mags for $550. So far I have only been able to dry fire it, but I have to say I definitely like the CT for that. It is so easy to see if you're on target or not ... and I have pretty thick glasses, so I can use all the help I can get.



Great applications for the CTL. You will find that it will quickly improve your instinctive point and shoot ability too. Just grip the gun (strong hand, weak hand or both hands) and point it at an object without gripping the laser. Then apply a little pressure on the laser button and you can see where you were aiming. With practice you will find that using the laser this way, increases your accuracy to point your gun quickly without using the sights. When guys talk about practicing instinctive point and shoot at the range, I always think about how easy it is to practice this at home without firing a shot. Then when you go to the range, you can test your ability with live fire without going through a box of ammo.

dustnchips
07-19-2016, 06:49 AM
If I decide to go with a laser it will probably be a green one for better bright light visibility. I practice and shoot with and without my glasses just because you never know. I feel I need to master my carry guns before I think about a laser. I would only buy a laser thar turned on with the grip or automaticly when drawn from the holster. If you need it you wont want to spend time hitting a button out in front somewhere. Just my opinions as a non laser owner but someone who is interested.