TP9 vs S&W Shield 9MM

[CB3]

I carried my TP9 for about two years. I liked how flat it was, the slightly greater capacity than many other small nines, the longer sight radius and full length grip. I improved the trigger, including lightening.

I was always concerned about the limited capacity and the narrowness of the grip, making it a little harder to shoot well. I now carry a Beretta Storm PX4C full size with a very similar trigger.

I have two family members who recently got CCW permits and asked for advice on a carry gun. Both newbies are interested in easy carry and simplicity, which means Kahr.

However, there has been a huge amount of buzz about the S&W M&P Shield and especially it's short reset trigger. A few weeks ago I bought one to wring out in anticipation of letting family members try it as an option.

In short, it sucked. Crudely made, requiring as much fluffing and buffing as a Keltec. It is reliable and ergonomic, but I intensely dislike cheaply made guns. Worse, however, was how badly I was misled about the trigger.

My unit must have been unusually bad compared to what many others claim, or they are trigger idiots. It had a long gritty take up, a horrendous hitch at the beginning of the striker block contact, and a hard 7.5-8+ lb variable trigger pull that just didn't want to break, and then had over travel. Because of this lousy trigger, accuracy was really compromised.

I polished everything and smoothed it up a little, but the hitch was still there and the break was still heavy. I eliminated the overtravel with some epoxy in the trigger guard. I coughed up an additional $200 to get a sight pusher to remove the ridiculously tight rear sight for disassembly and an Apex trigger kit.

With the work done the trigger is now much better, breaking consistently at about 5.5 lbs. with no over travel. It still has a slight hitch as the trigger bar pushes up the striker block, and the break is not "like glass". It does have a short reset which makes it fairly fast to shoot, but accuracy still suffers.

Bottom line: I ended up paying as much or more than a Kahr costs, got a rough gun with a poorly designed striker firing system that required additional expense and time, and the trigger is nowhere near as good as my three Kahrs have been. I won't be recommending a Shield over a Kahr.

[hardluk1]

Do you have a CW or P series kahr?? Slightly smaller and lighter than the shield but basically the same class of handgun and in a platform you are already comfortable shooting and know well. Hard to keep a open minded review as you should have known going in about the trigger issues with all the owner reviews out there. And the TP series is a much close to commander 1911 in size and feel than a shield.

I got a shoot a shield a while back. Seem lots of guys will swap out handguns at a public range I visit if you ask them so trigger time is good behind many other makes and models I may never owny.

I liked the shield fine but it had some apex stuff in it. Different from a kahrs trigger very nice to me . Many reviews will till you about the typical stock shield trigger issues too.

I enjoy shooting many different handguns , just never liked to mix brands or model designs for carry . Now if it did not own a kahr?? maybe a shield. My wife has the larger m&p9c she bought as a house/range gun. It to is known to have trigger issues but she liked how it felt and I added a apex kit to it for her and I will say it is a great shooter with a glass smooth 4lb trigger and as accurate as any pistol should need to be. But if I shoot it to much I get the evil eye from the wife. Then is back to my kahrs.

Go easy on slamming other brands . Many hate our so favored kahrs and most other brands have haters when reality is they all work pretty well and some, like the m&p line with a little work can be darn fine shooters. Just different.

[chrish]

I think there a lot of trigger idiots out there... Well said!

It's hard, if not impossible, to beat a kahr trigger with any plastic trigger out there. Period. Not saying a glock mp xd/xdm or similar don't have their place or purpose. But the triggers on those firearms...even tuned...suck a big one.

Let the flames begin...

[jocko]

Once I had my G19 worked over by accurateIron. I can honestly sayt this is the most accurate semi I HAVE EVER OWNED. iT ACTUALLY MAKES OL JOCKO LOOK GOOD AT THE RANGE . None of my kahrs make me look good at the range. that being said my G19 is my home gun and range gun, never my carry gun. I think kahrs trigger system is by far the smoothest out there but also as many here know it is a trigger system that takes time to adjust to and some never adjust to it. I alwys felt that when I wanttohit a beer can at 25 yards, I would grab my G19 any day over any of my kahrs. Now to me tha tisnot taking anyting away from the kahrs, as they are what they are . IMO a pure defense gun that you will more than likely carry far more than a G19.. Never was a big fan of glocks SAS but again it is whatit is. When I bought my son a G19 who is not as gun savv as his dad, I had installed the siderlock safety in it . Supoer safety system and the trigger system is now all steel also.

[jeepster09]

All I can say is you must got a crappy Shield. I like my 40 Shield better than my Kahr PM. I own both and prefer carrying the Shield by far, it is one of my favorite carry guns.
Although lately I am liking my Beretta's, larger guns but very smooth.

[bonjorno2]

my shield 40 breaks clean for a stock gun... I like it

[CB3]

Do you have a CW or P series kahr??

Two P40's and the TP9. Bought a CW9 as a gift for my son. I did not have a problem with the size or ergonomics of the Shield. They are actually very good.

I know I got a substandard Shield compared to others out there, but after working on the trigger I can see why many people have problems. It is not a smooth design.

My assessment may be worthless to someone who has had a different experience, but it should be fair warning to those considering a Shield to really check out the trigger of the gun in the store before purchase. I didn't do that as it was the only one in the store and the only one that had been available in a six month period, so I grabbed it. My mistake. I don't know anything about the rest of the M&P series.

[hardluk1]

Yes s&w makes sub standard pistols just like all do . Kahr included . And I know you probably don't want to hear it but most of the m&p line will with rounds down range to be come better. Some guys will have s&w fix the grittiness and smooth up the trigger pull. cost nothing but some time gone. I drifted my sight with a small vise padded with some leather and a ground flaton one side brass punch. Never used a sight pusher. Even the screw came right loose on out m&p. Anyhow hope you get it the way you want it.

Oh well , to bad they all are not made to be at there best when they come out of the box.

[PM9OWNER]

I had my G34 before my kahr pistols and can say that I'm definitely more accurate with that style trigger, or maybe its just the huge barrell.. I'm getting much better with the khars, but my block allows me to shoot faster and keep shots on target. Still, lately my T9 gets most of the time at the range..

[jocko]

I had my G34 before my kahr pistols and can say that I'm definitely more accurate with that style trigger, or maybe its just the huge barrell.. I'm getting much better with the khars, but my block allows me to shoot faster and keep shots on target. Still, lately my T9 gets most of the time at the range..

I am very accurate with my tuned G19, far far better than any of my kahrs but that beingt said, my pMJ9 ridesin myfront pocket 24/7 for I know I can put um all in a "Q" type target at 7 yards and for me that is plenty good. In a SHTF swituation my broupls are gonna be even more terrible. G.ock trigger for me is great but IMOto hairyt for pocket carry6 That SAS to me sucks as a safety ..

I would think the T9 would be one hell of a sooter though, due tosize, and weight. . Trigger system stays the same but one can get damn good with kahrs trigger. We have seen some awsome groups of this forum. I would think kahrs are cvapable of shootin themin the same hole, it is just that I cannot.:Amflag2:

semper vulgare

[Chuck54]

Last time out I shot my T9 a bit better than my G19......just sayin

[7shot]

I carried my TP9 for about two years. I liked how flat it was, the slightly greater capacity than many other small nines, the longer sight radius and full length grip. I improved the trigger, including lightening.

I was always concerned about the limited capacity and the narrowness of the grip, making it a little harder to shoot well. I now carry a Beretta Storm PX4C full size with a very similar trigger.

I have two family members who recently got CCW permits and asked for advice on a carry gun. Both newbies are interested in easy carry and simplicity, which means Kahr.

However, there has been a huge amount of buzz about the S&W M&P Shield and especially it's short reset trigger. A few weeks ago I bought one to wring out in anticipation of letting family members try it as an option.

In short, it sucked. Crudely made, requiring as much fluffing and buffing as a Keltec. It is reliable and ergonomic, but I intensely dislike cheaply made guns. Worse, however, was how badly I was misled about the trigger.

My unit must have been unusually bad compared to what many others claim, or they are trigger idiots. It had a long gritty take up, a horrendous hitch at the beginning of the striker block contact, and a hard 7.5-8+ lb variable trigger pull that just didn't want to break, and then had over travel. Because of this lousy trigger, accuracy was really compromised.

I polished everything and smoothed it up a little, but the hitch was still there and the break was still heavy. I eliminated the overtravel with some epoxy in the trigger guard. I coughed up an additional $200 to get a sight pusher to remove the ridiculously tight rear sight for disassembly and an Apex trigger kit.

With the work done the trigger is now much better, breaking consistently at about 5.5 lbs. with no over travel. It still has a slight hitch as the trigger bar pushes up the striker block, and the break is not "like glass". It does have a short reset which makes it fairly fast to shoot, but accuracy still suffers.

Bottom line: I ended up paying as much or more than a Kahr costs, got a rough gun with a poorly designed striker firing system that required additional expense and time, and the trigger is nowhere near as good as my three Kahrs have been. I won't be recommending a Shield over a Kahr.

I must say this is the worst report I've ever read on the Shield, sorry to hear you got an unsatisfactory pistol. I've probably read over 50 reviews and a very high majority have been very favorable. My buddy bought one right when they were released and he loves it. I also have shot it and loved everything about it, trigger, ergonomics, price. Hopefully, over time, yours will work its way to favorite status.

[1911master]

My experience, the Shield is a fine pistol. I have owned Kahrs, Shields, Nano and a Rohrbaugh. I always come back to the Kahr. Currently owning a pair of CW 9s. Waiting to find another TP9 which I should have in the next few days.

[Rangemeister]

My Shield was also not good. I did not want to spend anymore money on the Apex, so off it went. I do like my MK9 as the trigger is very smooth. I don't really shoot a DAO all that well, as the 1911 is my favorite. Sometimes, it is necessary to carry something smaller. :amflag:

[CB3]

It's interesting that there is such a wide variance of opinions on this pistol. The majority of reports/reviews I read prior to my purchase were positive. I am sure I bought an unusually poor specimen, but I have to say I cannot understand how that trigger design could ever compete with Kahr's or others that are so smooth and break so clean. I will have to try someone else's with a good S&W Shield trigger.

Not trying to trash the company, their M&P line, or the 9MM Shield in particular. They are obviously doing well without my opinion. I like many of the gun's characteristics. I just can't deal with the trigger on mine, even with the Apex upgrade.

[jocko]

when I bought my M & P 9 when they first came out, it had the worst trigger of any semi I ever owned. Can't tell you how bad it felt. It took the fun out of shootin it. THEN I let Dave Bowie fo bowie tactical have a shot at giving it his finese.

That gun when I got it back was day and night from new. The trgger was the finest I think I ever put a finger into, super accurate..I SOLD IT. I just never mated up to that gun.

[muggsy]

All guns have their pluses and minuses. Different strokes for different folks. Aside from magazine capacity and cheese grater grips, I love my Kahrs. I don't see the quality of a Kahr in the M&P Shield, but the Shield makes a damn good rough and tumble concealed carry pistol and not one that I'd miss if the police took it from me. As RevRay would say to everything there is a season and a time for every purpose under heaven.

[hardluk1]

I can get to like most pistols ,with a little tuneing for some. Here that M&P ?? I like my kahrs and have three sizes of them but if m&p had the shield 6 years ago and a cm9 sized pistol to go with the larger double stacks I probably would not have bought more than one kahr. There just missing the cm9 size model. That's the size I carry the most. Never was a big fan of heavier double stacks and when a m&pc is loaded it falls into the at heavy group for me but with the apex kit installed it sure makes for a fine shooter. Just a little wide and heavy. Kinda like me.

To many good pistols out there to own or just shoot them all !!

[nimdabew]

I think there a lot of trigger idiots out there... Well said!

It's hard, if not impossible, to beat a kahr trigger with any plastic trigger out there. Period. Not saying a glock mp xd/xdm or similar don't have their place or purpose. But the triggers on those firearms...even tuned...suck a big one.

Let the flames begin...

I picked up my Glock 19 the other day after getting my MK9. I thought the trigger work I had done on it was amazing before I got the Kahr. Now it feels like a moist turd sliding on concrete...

[CB3]

Fired a friend's Glock 17 the other day. He was concerned his sights were off and wanted to see if the pistol's PoI was the same for me.

To try to reduce shooter error, I took a solid rest on the concrete bench, excellent sight alignment and sight picture.

I began pressing the trigger very slowly so as not to disturb the sight picture.

The first stage was light and smooth, just a little long.
Then I hit a hitch that required more pressure.
Next the pull lightened again but began stacking and became rough.
The trigger kept moving and getting heavier. It finally went off (@~7 lbs in my estimation) after about 8 seconds from starting the pull.

To me, that's a lousy trigger.

Dead center hit on the target, BTW.

Short reset for the follow up shots, no noticeable take up, and shorter pull, as is typical. Pretty good for the "second trigger" on the gun.

[hardluk1]

Quess the first pull on a glock could then be compared to a new kind of da followed by a sa??? Just not as long or heavy a pull is any of those type triggers . I have not shot any new glocks . the couple we had were used and well broke it . Liked the triggers on them just not that fat grip on my very average hand size.

Why compare a TP to a shield?? Much closer to the CW/P in size. Most people want to judge it to a cm/pm model.

[CB3]

Why compare a TP to a shield?? Much closer to the CW/P in size. Most people want to judge it to a cm/pm model.

Previously asked in post #2. Answered in posts 1 & 7.

[DT Guy]

I've owned three Kahr's (a K9 and two CW9's) and now own a .40 Shield.

Stock trigger on the Shield was so bad when I initially shot it that I actually thought it was 'broken' somehow...heavy (maybe 10+ pounds?) beyond my ability to manage it.

Did the Burwell trigger job on just the sear, and it was about like a stock Glock. Got the Apex sear ($37) and now it's an EXCELLENT trigger (for a striker gun) and around 4#, clean break and just a bit of grit in the takeup (haven't shot it yet, so expecting that will improve.)

So the Shield NEEDS the Apex sear (IMHO), but once it gets it, it's far easier to shoot than the Kahrs I've owned.

Larry

[garyb]

I'm still waiting to get my hands on a Shield to feel the trigger and compare it to my M&PPro's trigger...which I love. If I were to buy a Shield and sell my PM, the Shield's trigger would need to be very much like my Pro's. I could sacrifice the compact size of the PM because I carry mostly IWB and no longer carry it front pocket. Time will tell, but this report is not sounding good for the Shield. I too am surprised you compared it to the TP????

[gb6491]

I have to concur about the improvement of the Shield's trigger with the Apex sear. I sold my first Shield because of it's trigger and only purchased the second becuase of what Melissa wrote here about the Apex parts (and that could get the second Shield at substantially discounted price). That said: in 9mm, I still like my CW9 better than the Shield (or my now departed CM9).
Regards,
Greg

[garyb]

Does anyone know how the Shield's trigger compares to their M&P line? Particularly the Pro?

[CB3]

I too am surprised you compared it to the TP????

I own a TP9 and a P40. That's it. No other Kahrs. Just those two. Can't compare it to something I don't have.

The TP9 and Shield have similar capacities, which is why I compared them instead of my P40.

Size matters, but to me capacity and shootability are more important than minor differences in dimensions. The TP9 has greater capacity than other Kahrs, but all the same features-- trigger, controls, etc. Because it is slightly larger, it is easier to shoot well, which is why I have it. The Shield might replace my TP9. It can't replace a gun I don't have.

I have now shot and carried the Shield for a few months. With the Apex trigger and after taking care of the safety issue, it is a fine gun.

I still hear of people who like the stock trigger. I assume they got a much better example of S&W craftsmanship than I did, but I still think the stock trigger S&W design/execution is weak.

When properly tuned (Apex) the Shield trigger reset is much shorter than a Kahr, therefore faster to shoot. However, if the gun is small and lightweight and difficult to control, shooting faster may not be possible with acceptable accuracy. The Shield ergonomics are such that I can shoot it as well as my TP9 but faster. Edge to the Shield.

[TheTman]

The trigger on my M&P Pro is my favorite trigger of all my DAO guns. You take up a little slack, till you feel resistance, then apply about 5-6 lbs of pressure and it breaks very crisp. Closest thing to a SA trigger I've run across. I like being able to tell when the trigger is going to break. It's very difficult on a Kahr, so I just give it one firm squeeze and it breaks when it does.

[garyb]

The trigger on my M&P Pro is my favorite trigger of all my DAO guns. You take up a little slack, till you feel resistance, then apply about 5-6 lbs of pressure and it breaks very crisp. Closest thing to a SA trigger I've run across. I like being able to tell when the trigger is going to break. It's very difficult on a Kahr, so I just give it one firm squeeze and it breaks when it does.

I totally agree. I have found exactly the same thing. I wonder how the Shield compares to the Pro? I guess I will just have to wait until I get my hands on one. It appears that there are good ones and bad ones....or the folks that don't like them, simply don't like M&P triggers. My Glock buddy only likes his Glock trigger....he is used to it and anything different is no good. I don't rely on that kind of input. Some guys are stuck in the mud. Very personal issue.

[jocko]

My first andonly Smith M& P had the worst fokking trigger I have ever had on any semi. Gritty and just terrible. It wasnot the PRO or what ever that is supposed todesignate. but after I sent it to David Bowie for his TLC, when I get that gun back it was super scary. the trigger was just awesome and it seems very short in stroke. I shot it well but I din't like it at all and sold it to a fella in Texas and he worte me back after he had it awhile and said that was the finest gun he has ever owned. David Bowie did mygrip stipplying and instlled soe great sights. the gun was super match grade when he gotr done with it. Lost my fokkingass when I sold it to.

My G19 tuned,stippled and resigheed by Accurate Iron is my finest shooter.Fokkinggun just amazes me. It actully makes me look good on the range

[garyb]

My first andonly Smith M& P had the worst fokking trigger I have ever had on any semi. Gritty and just terrible. It wasnot the PRO or what ever that is supposed todesignate. but after I sent it to David Bowie for his TLC, when I get that gun back it was super scary. the trigger was just awesome and it seems very short in stroke. I shot it well but I din't like it at all and sold it to a fella in Texas and he worte me back after he had it awhile and said that was the finest gun he has ever owned. David Bowie did mygrip stipplying and instlled soe great sights. the gun was super match grade when he gotr done with it. Lost my fokkingass when I sold it to.

My G19 tuned,stippled and resigheed by Accurate Iron is my finest shooter.Fokkinggun just amazes me. It actully makes me look good on the range

If you go to the S&W sight and look up the Pro, you will see what it is. They do a little extra work on the Pro model for competition, to work out some of the kinks that may be found on other M&P line. It is still designated as a stock gun, but a refined one. That's about all I can tell you about it Jocko. It is a really nice shooter.

[Pointblank]

My wife and I have both owned 9mm Shields for about a year now and like them very much, however they don't work very well for pocket carry. That is why I got a PM9. I think it's a great little pistol and will be buying more Kahrs in the future.

[hardluk1]

With the shield filling the same size as the cw and p series you might as well buy a tp or the new ct series. I have a open bottom holster owb holster that was made for the cm9 but ended up carry'n the TP40 in it. My cm9 has never been in it. Shamefull.


Check out A&G mag sleeves for a full grip if that matters to you. I use a tp series 8 shoot mag as back up for my cm9
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/2-AGPM9

[smokersteve]

Here's the order of my favorite trigger of the guns I currently own: 1 being the best
1. S&W Shield 9mm
2. Glock 19 gen 4
3. S&W M&P22
4. Kahr CW380
5. Kahr CM9

I've also not had to do any prep work on any new S&W or Glock which I can't say for the Kahrs I own. Cool thing about Glocks is you make sure there is no obstructions in the barrel and then go shoot it.

[Pointblank]

Here's the order of my favorite trigger of the guns I currently own: 1 being the best
1. S&W Shield 9mm
2. Glock 19 gen 4
3. S&W M&P22
4. Kahr CW380
5. Kahr CM9

I've also not had to do any prep work on any new S&W or Glock which I can't say for the Kahrs I own. Cool thing about Glocks is you make sure there is no obstructions in the barrel and then go shoot it.



I think Glocks have the WORST trigger in the industry and I had to carry one on duty for a long time. My newly-acquired PM9 has the best I've owned, it edges out the Shield and we own two. As in most things, it's subjective.

[Purple Mountain Outdoors]

I shoot my shield 9 far better than I ever shot my pm9.

However I find the cw380 shoots MUCH better than a Glock 42, for me that is.


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[hardluk1]

Guys are always comparing how a shield to a cm or pm9. Different size pistols , hard to get a fair comparison. Now add the cw9 pr p9 to the comparison might change things . Same size and weight class as the shield.


Have you fired the glock 42 enough to be in tune with the tigger and have the pistol broke in well?? Might be different story if you have 500 rounds thru each then do a comparison.


To me if a trigger is smooth I don't care if its a sa , da or striker trigger , kahr, glock, m&p or 1911 , give me a few mags thru each and if there in the same class as far as weight and size goes I will shoot each one well.

[muggsy]

My first andonly Smith M& P had the worst fokking trigger I have ever had on any semi. Gritty and just terrible. It wasnot the PRO or what ever that is supposed todesignate. but after I sent it to David Bowie for his TLC, when I get that gun back it was super scary. the trigger was just awesome and it seems very short in stroke. I shot it well but I din't like it at all and sold it to a fella in Texas and he worte me back after he had it awhile and said that was the finest gun he has ever owned. David Bowie did mygrip stipplying and instlled soe great sights. the gun was super match grade when he gotr done with it. Lost my fokkingass when I sold it to.

My G19 tuned,stippled and resigheed by Accurate Iron is my finest shooter.Fokkinggun just amazes me. It actully makes me look good on the range

Jocko, an entire team of makeup artists couldn't make you look good on the range. The boy is butt ugly. I will agree that since we live in a litigious society that very few people under the age of fifty know what a really good trigger feels like. A good trigger is satin smooth with no stacking or creep. When a good trigger breaks it feels like the snapping of a glass rod. The over travel on a good trigger is damn near imperceptible. Damn, I just described the trigger on my Gold Cup. :)

[Pointblank]

My wife and I have has two 9mm Shields for over a year and they have been shot a lot. They are a bit too big for pocket carry, I use the PM9 and CM9 for that, but for belt carry they beat the little Kahrs. A very accurate, dependable pistol with a good trigger.

[Purple Mountain Outdoors]

My wife and I have has two 9mm Shields for over a year and they have been shot a lot. They are a bit too big for pocket carry, I use the PM9 and CM9 for that, but for belt carry they beat the little Kahrs. A very accurate, dependable pistol with a good trigger.

The shield is hard to beat for IWB carry. A cm9 has pushed my 442 out of my pocket and made itself a new home :)


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[hardluk1]

If you own and carry a cm or pm9 why buy a shield when the cw or P series kahr is in the same class is the shield. Just a little lighter. Mag ted to work the smaller kahr and holster if the smaller model gest carried out of the pocket.

[Purple Mountain Outdoors]

The shield is in a different class than the Kahr IMO. The kahr is a great ccw piece for daily carry. The shield is something that I would trust to hell and back. Know what I'm saying?


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[hardluk1]

Nope !! I feel the same way about my kahrs . I just don't like mixing brands for CC. Not like I have a few of bad guns just don't like to mix things up. If I did not have kahrs today I would carry a PT111G2 or the 40cal version.

[Purple Mountain Outdoors]

Nope !! I feel the same way about my kahrs . I just don't like mixing brands for CC. Not like I have a few of bad guns just don't like to mix things up. If I did not have kahrs today I would carry a PT111G2 or the 40cal version.

As much as I love Kahrs, I don't feel like they are brutish reliability mules like Glocks or M&Ps. They are a more refined piece. More accurate, better trigger, smoother contours, etc. Reliable yes, but I wouldn't expect them to work as well as some other choices after being submerged in mud, or heavily neglected for long periods of time. I could be totally wrong about that, it's just the impression I get between the two guns.

If your curious, it's the CM9 I have on my hip right now, and not the Shield.


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[hardluk1]

If tomorrow was the last day of normal life I would have a glock 19 on my hip with my dw357 in a back pack. NO small handguns is the best choice for a real fight BUT many makes and models do very well at it. I let one of my girls have my cw9 for her cc since I bought the tp40 only time I carry my cm9 is when mowing the yard or a quick run to the store down the street and general around the house . Pour little tang stay near home mostly. It is carried when we get away from the area as a back up if travel'n.

IlLike and shoot to many handguns and with a few great old revolvers and one M&P about to be joined by a pro core version. Those would be the -if things got bad handguns for sure.

[Purple Mountain Outdoors]

If tomorrow was the last day of normal life I would have a glock 19 on my hip with my dw357 in a back pack. NO small handguns is the best choice for a real fight BUT many makes and models do very well at it. I let one of my girls have my cw9 for her cc since I bought the tp40 only time I carry my cm9 is when mowing the yard or a quick run to the store down the street and general around the house . Pour little tang stay near home mostly. It is carried when we get away from the area as a back up if travel'n.

IlLike and shoot to many handguns and with a few great old revolvers and one M&P about to be joined by a pro core version. Those would be the -if things got bad handguns for sure.

Agreed


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