Sights off really bad

[CW40]

I recently purchased a LNIB CW40 and it shoots about 4-5 inches to the right of where I am aiming at 10 yards. This seems excessive. I have not attempted to move the rear sight because it seems that it would have to be moved too far. Is this typical of Kahr pistols?

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[paintwerk]

Try shooting with your opposite hand, and see how it shoots. It may just take some getting used to the long DA trigger.

[Roadblock]

I see about two dozen of these threads over on the GLOCKTALK forum weekly. With about 99.999999999999% of them, it's the shooter, not the gun.

Most of the shooters will argue that they shoot dead on with all there other pistols etc, it normally still turns out to be the shooter.

I had a local friend who was bitching about his GLOCK shooting a few inches to the left. He hands it to me and I put all 16 (15+1) rounds smack dab in the center in about a two inch group.

I actually picked up my GLOCK 22 with nightsights for $375.00 that was only a month old because the guy who bought it kept saying it was a pos and it shot to the left. He even had the rear sight shifted as far as it would go to the right without sticking out. Before I even shot it, I centered the rear right and guess what happened when I fired it? Dead nuts on.

[Bawanna]

I see about two dozen of these threads over on the GLOCKTALK forum weekly. With about 99.999999999999% of them, it's the shooter, not the gun.

Most of the shooters will argue that they shoot dead on with all there other pistols etc, it normally still turns out to be the shooter.

I had a local friend who was bitching about his GLOCK shooting a few inches to the left. He hands it to me and I put all 16 (15+1) rounds smack dab in the center in about a two inch group.

I actually picked up my GLOCK 22 with nightsights for $375.00 that was only a month old because the guy who bought it kept saying it was a pos and it shot to the left. He even had the rear sight shifted as far as it would go to the right without sticking out. Before I even shot it, I centered the rear right and guess what happened when I fired it? Dead nuts on.

Agreed, exactly what you said.

[wyntrout]

I'm no expert, but if you work on your trigger pull, you can probably get the POI to move over to your POA. I consistently shot my PM9 about 4 inches to the left at about 7:30 to 8:00 o'clock. After I got my PM45 and shot it really well, and then later my P380... great, as well, I recently tried out the PM9 again and got much better results.
I can jerk the shots all over the place, but if I concentrate on squeezing the trigger and not the whole gun, the bullet goes where I'm pointing, even rapid fire.
When I got my K9 over 12 years ago, I shot it at the gun store range. I didn't know where the bullets were going and went and asked one of the store employees to try it. Bang, dead center... okay... it's me... embarrassing!:blushing: It was my first DAO pistol... different.
Wynn:D

[deadhead1971]

CW40--are you left handed? :)

I am right handed. When I first got the PM9, I shot 4" to the left. After some practice, I can hit almost dead center most of the time and dead center some of the time.

[jocko]

ur all dead right, I am left handed and for me kahrs are not the easiest to master and my shots are always right and low. Thought like most, ,,, Humm had to be the gun, I screwed with those sights so much that when I looked at them sometime they just autoamtically moved. IT WAS NOT THE SIGHTS. It was me 100%. the more I shot the more the shots started to come back towards the left. I would not move those sights, first of all your gonna have one hell of a time probabaly even trying to move that rear sight with out a good sight pusher. They are in that tight for some damn reason.

Let another good shooter try the gun and see what happens. Kahrs looooong but smooth trigger system is not like a glock or most other semi's. kahrs are as close to shooting a double action revolver as you will ever get. If you can't shoot a revolver good in DA mode, then you won't do much better with a kahr either. Practice does tend to make "almost perfect".

Although with 25,900 rounds out of my PM9 I am still not to proud of my shooting accuracy with my PM9.

If you really wanna see how bad I think and others think you are doing something wrong, but a half dozen snap caps and throw them in with about 30 loose rounds and let someone load your magazine so you don't know if u have one or 4 snap caps in the magazine. Trust me, this will show wha tis going on big time.

[jlottmc]

Thats about right. Most guns will shoot better than the shooter and very very few need those fixed sights adjusted off of center. Work on your grip and trigger pull.

[CW40]

Thanks for the replies but I don't think that the problem is my shooting ability. I have been shooting for more than 50 years. I don't have this problem with any of my other handguns when firing them DA. I am not unfamiliar with DAO handguns, I have a Kel-Tec P3AT that is very accurate and shoots to POA.

I am assuming that no one here has had a problem with their Kahr's POI being excessively off from their POA. If that is the case I may consider getting another Kahr.


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[at_liberty]

I recently purchased a LNIB CW40 and it shoots about 4-5 inches to the right of where I am aiming at 10 yards. This seems excessive. I have not attempted to move the rear sight because it seems that it would have to be moved too far. Is this typical of Kahr pistols?

.Assuming the gun is actually sighted in, the NRA book indicates a pattern to the right being a sign of "thumbing" the pistol at the end of the trigger pull cycle. That would be closing the hand instead of coming straight back and following through with the trigger finger. Anticipating recoil could be part of it too.

I would suggest dry firing and carefully watching that those front sights are steady. Then try to maintain sight picture as long as you can as the gun actually goes off with live rounds. The flinch, or jerk, or homing the trigger too hard are all signs of being intimidated by the gun going off. Concentrating on follow through should help, thinking through the shot, past the gun going off.

I find this in contrasting how I shoot so well with my .22 and then can be all over the place with the snappier calibers until I settle in, having warmed up on the .22. Thinking through the shot process and dry firing a few rounds as I switch guns can save some ammo, I find.

[CW40]

Assuming the gun is actually sighted in, the NRA book indicates a pattern to the right being a sign of "thumbing" the pistol at the end of the trigger pull cycle. That would be closing the hand instead of coming straight back and following through with the trigger finger. Anticipating recoil could be part of it too.

I would suggest dry firing and carefully watching that those front sights are steady. Then try to maintain sight picture as long as you can as the gun actually goes off with live rounds. The flinch, or jerk, or homing the trigger too hard are all signs of being intimidated by the gun going off. Concentrating on follow through should help, thinking through the shot, past the gun going off.

I find this in contrasting how I shoot so well with my .22 and then can be all over the place with the snappier calibers until I settle in, having warmed up on the .22. Thinking through the shot process and dry firing a few rounds as I switch guns can save some ammo, I find.

The gun is NOT sighted in, that is the problem. I was asking if it is typical of Kahr pistols for the sights to be that far off. If this is typical I won't buy another one without shooting it first.

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[at_liberty]

I have been shooting for more than 50 years.

The test will be to let another competent shooter have a go at it and see what results they get.

[at_liberty]

The gun is NOT sighted in, that is the problem. I was asking if it is typical of Kahr pistols for the sights to be that far off. If this is typical I won't buy another one without shooting it first.

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If determined that the gun is defective, I think you should just be arranging to return it for repair. It is not common, to my knowledge, for Kahr pistols to shoot poorly.

[jocko]

GET SOME SNAP CAPS. Mix them with outher orunds. this will tell you alot...

[jlottmc]

Listen to jocko. He is called the oracle for a reason. That will tell you what you need to know.

[CW40]

I have done the snap cap exercise many times, at one time it was part of almost all of my practice sessions and I still do it occasionally.

I tried the snap cap excercise today in my CW40. It showed that it is a problem with the gun. So now that we have proven that is actually a problem with the gun as I stated in my OP I will again ask the question: Is it typical for the sights to be that far off on Kahr pistols?

[paintwerk]

I havent heard any reports of the sights being off. Doesnt mean it couldnt happen though.

Do the sights look to be centered on the slide?

Did you actually shoot the gun again, and see if it performs any better after practicing with the snap caps?

[jocko]

I have done the snap cap exercise many times, at one time it was part of almost all of my practice sessions and I still do it occasionally.

I tried the snap cap excercise today in my CW40. It showed that it is a problem with the gun. So now that we have proven that is actually a problem with the gun as I stated in my OP I will again ask the question: Is it typical for the sights to be that far off on Kahr pistols?

kahr sights their guns with 124 grain ammo, at what distance I do not know. I would say those sights should be very close out of the box. If u definitely feel it is gun related, u best send it back and let kahr have a look at it . All we can do here is give advice and tips on what to check for, Not having the gun in hand takes away alot of options to. You have shot it, u feel it is the gun and not the shooter, then u need to address this with kahr or let the dealer you bought it from handle it also. Did u by any chance let another person who u feels is knowledgeable try to shoot it to see if he can duplicate??

I would hate to see u waste alot of down time sending back the gun only to get it back with a message that the gun tested and shot OK. The rear site is adjustable tuff to move but with a sight pusher a breeze. My PM9 rear sight I have moved it and one can tell also and I being a lefty never let a rightie shoot it as for sure it willbe way off for a rightie. I just attributed my having to move my sight to correct was due to form or should I say lack of form, not really a gun related thing, IMO.

[jlottmc]

Try this: take a caliper and measure both sides of the sights themselves, then measure the difference in the dovetail on both sides. Of course we are trying to eliminate the simple solutions first is all.

[Bawanna]

I'm curious if it was shooting consistent definite groups. Tight groups even off target would indicate that the barrel is ok and the sight picture is just off. The little MK9 that we recovered from Puget Sound and sent in for overhaul we discovered shot poorly. I could not hit a paper plate at 10 ft. I'd hit holding a foot right, then hit holding a foot left. On close inspection I determined that the barrel had corroded (45 days in salt water duh?), it didn't look bad but it was there. Replaced the barrel and it's a tack driver seriously. You mention LNIB, have to assume it hasn't had any abuse like this but guess one never knows. If it's grouping, this probably isn't applicable either.........

[CW40]

kahr sights their guns with 124 grain ammo, at what distance I do not know. I would say those sights should be very close out of the box. If u definitely feel it is gun related, u best send it back and let kahr have a look at it .

124 grain .40 S&W ammo?


All we can do here is give advice and tips on what to check for, Not having the gun in hand takes away alot of options to. You have shot it, u feel it is the gun and not the shooter, then u need to address this with kahr or let the dealer you bought it from handle it also. Did u by any chance let another person who u feels is knowledgeable try to shoot it to see if he can duplicate??

I did not ask for advice, I merely asked if it was typical for the sights to be that far off on Kahr pistols.


I would hate to see u waste alot of down time sending back the gun only to get it back with a message that the gun tested and shot OK. The rear site is adjustable tuff to move but with a sight pusher a breeze. My PM9 rear sight I have moved it and one can tell also and I being a lefty never let a rightie shoot it as for sure it willbe way off for a rightie. I just attributed my having to move my sight to correct was due to form or should I say lack of form, not really a gun related thing, IMO.


I won't be wasting a lot of time sending the gun back to Kahr since I am not the original owner it would not be covered under warranty and I will not be putting any more money into it.

If a gun is sighted correctly it makes no difference if the shooter is right handed or left handed. You might want to do the snap cap exercise, it will tell you a lot. And if the snap cap exercise shows that you are flinching when you pull the trigger I would suggest that you do a lot of practicing. When you yourself learn to shoot then you can come back and give advice to others.

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[CW40]

I'm curious if it was shooting consistent definite groups. Tight groups even off target would indicate that the barrel is ok and the sight picture is just off. The little MK9 that we recovered from Puget Sound and sent in for overhaul we discovered shot poorly. I could not hit a paper plate at 10 ft. I'd hit holding a foot right, then hit holding a foot left. On close inspection I determined that the barrel had corroded (45 days in salt water duh?), it didn't look bad but it was there. Replaced the barrel and it's a tack driver seriously. You mention LNIB, have to assume it hasn't had any abuse like this but guess one never knows. If it's grouping, this probably isn't applicable either.........

Yes, it is shooting consistent groups about 4-5 inches to the left at 10 yards.

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[jocko]

ur hostile cw40. one can see it in your messages. I for one wish I had never even tried to respond to your original question. no problem though, thats why we have delete buttons for on this forum.

[Bawanna]

I tried to stop myself but I have to be bold and maybe even out of line here and express my dismay at your deliberate disrespect for a highly respected and long time member of this forum (jocko). We've been PMing each other most of today discussing possible issues with your gun trying to determine how best to cure it. We determined by your post that you are an experienced shooter, as we discussed you can be very experienced in 1 year. 50 years means little. We also discussed that the 40 is bucking so much your afraid of it and your flinching. This happens alot even to experienced shooters. My own K40 just got back from Magna Port for this same reason. Basically we and he specifically were and maybe still are trying to help you.
Apparently peoples ideas that don't match up to your own theories are discredited without thought. If that's the case that's perfectly fine but don't be disrespecting long time members of a fun and enjoyable forum.

My apologies to the mods if I'm out of line here but I just lost it.

[Bawanna]

My apologies again in advance to fellow members and the mods but I got my fire suit on and I'm impatient.

Come on out CW40 lets finish this.

[Bawanna]

Come out, come out where ever you are. It's baseball season and we're in the big leagues now. HARDBALL! Didn't have my Wheaties this morning. I'm a tiny little overweight guy in a wheelchair. You got a chance. Slim but a chance. Take your time, I'll be here for ya.

[CW40]

I tried to stop myself but I have to be bold and maybe even out of line here and express my dismay at your deliberate disrespect for a highly respected and long time member of this forum (jocko). We've been PMing each other most of today discussing possible issues with your gun trying to determine how best to cure it. We determined by your post that you are an experienced shooter, as we discussed you can be very experienced in 1 year. 50 years means little. We also discussed that the 40 is bucking so much your afraid of it and your flinching. This happens alot even to experienced shooters. My own K40 just got back from Magna Port for this same reason. Basically we and he specifically were and maybe still are trying to help you.
Apparently peoples ideas that don't match up to your own theories are discredited without thought. If that's the case that's perfectly fine but don't be disrespecting long time members of a fun and enjoyable forum.

My apologies to the mods if I'm out of line here but I just lost it.


The "highly respected and long time member of this forum (jocko)" admitted that he does not shoot well and apparently he thinks no one else can either. I did not come here to be told over and over that the problem that I described is my shooting ability, even after I made it clear that it was a problem with the gun. I merely wanted to know if it is typical for the sights to be that far off on Kahr pistols. It is apparent that no one here can, or is willing to, answer that simple question and that is fine.

.

[Bawanna]

The "highly respected and long time member of this forum (jocko)" admitted that he does not shoot well and apparently he thinks no one else can either. I did not come here to be told over and over that the problem that I described is my shooting ability, even after I made it clear that it was a problem with the gun. I merely wanted to know if it is typical for the sights to be that far off on Kahr pistols. It is apparent that no one here can, or is willing to, answer that simple question and that is fine.

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We're trying to help. Answer in my own opinion of course. NO, this is highly non typical in Kahr firearms.

I still think you owe jocko an apology for your total lack of respect. He tries to help, he's honest as the day is long, he helps so many that he occasionally get his guns mixed up. He admits that he doesn't shoot his Kahr as well as his glock. He's old, lot of us are old. Maybe our shooting prowess is on the down slide. All that being said he don't deserve disrespect. No one here new or old deserves your hostile attitude especially when we're trying to help. I'm more than willing to start all over with a few attitude adjustments or I can put you on ignore. No matter to me.

[jocko]

bawanna:



We're trying to help. Answer in my own opinion of course. NO, this is highly non typical in Kahr firearms

He was told that earlier to bawanna

My post: I would say those sights should be very close out of the box. If u definitely feel it is gun related, u best send it back and let kahr have a look at it .