polymer parts & cleaning supplies

[aray]

I wanted to get people’s opinions on cleaning the Kahr guns and what products you use or stay away from. I’m coming from a Beretta 92F background and those guns are hard to kill no matter what ya throw at them. However the Kahrs have a polymer frame, and not all chemicals react well with plastics or polymers.

While waiting for my CW9 to arrive, I was perusing the gun cleaning supply shelf. Power Blast Gun Cleaner specifically warned about plastics. Smith & Wesson Bore Cleaner did the same, and suggested removing wood or plastic grips (for those guns that support removable grips). That got me to wondering what is safe and what to avoid on the Kahrs.

I read Jocko’s classic article on proper prep of a new kahr (http://kahrtalk.com/kahr-tech/1521-proper-prep-new-kahr.html#post14512 (http://kahrtalk.com/kahr-tech/1521-proper-prep-new-kahr.html#post14512)) but there were some things that confused me (I’m easily confused...)

Rotty37 liked M-Pro 7. However in the M-Pro7 FAQ (http://www.mpro7.com/MPro7-Faqs.htmL (http://www.mpro7.com/MPro7-Faqs.htmL)) it says:
> I got cleaner in the action and firing pin chamber. How can I remove it and properly lubricate so they don’t get “gummed” up?
> The gun cleaner can dry into a wax-like coating that is not a lubricant, so removal is important in those areas.
> Compressed air works well (i.e. keyboard cleaner/air in a can).
> You can also “over” oil the action.
> The “extra” oil will absorb the gun cleaner residue and drain off.

I don’t see how that squares with Jocko’s comments, re:
> #2 … Take that slide off and that little hole in the bottom of the slide, that is your clean out hole into the striker channel, Insert your spray cleaner nozzle in there and spray away.
> Fluids will come out both ends, Now with one finger pull back on the striker at the back of the slide and continue to spray in that hole and also spray clean from that breech hole also.
> You have now cleaned that striker channel without dissambly,
> DO NOT OIL THAT STRKER CHANNEL.

So if I use M-Pro7 to clean the gun, and I’m supposed to spray the cleaner into the striker channel hole, then M-Pro7 says it may gum up the works. Not gumming stuff up is the reason I think Jocko recommends not putting oil in the sticker channel. So I’m sorta hosed either way, if I understand this correctly. Are ya’ll depending just upon the compressed air to get rid of the cleaner to avoid this problem?

Jocko likes the 3M brake cleaner. I tried to find this (unsuccessfully) at Wal-Mart to take a look at the stuff. I’ll have to check it out at a real auto parts store I guess. But I gotta say on the face of it I’m sorta getting the heebee jeebees when I think of putting a harsh automobile brake cleaner on my gun with lots of precision tiny and intricate moving parts, and which will also inevitably wind up on the polymer frame. Is this stuff really safe? I hate to question the guru of all things Kahr, but as a newbie I must confess I have cold feet.

The tried and true Hoppe’s that I’ve been using on my Berettas doesn’t say one way or the other about its ability to tolerate plastic or polymers. So I’m, no pun intended, gun shy on that one for now.

Moving past the cleaners, what is your collective wisdom on oils? Are they all the same? Or is there some difference in viscosity, in extra lubricants (like silicon), in the propensity to attract dirt, gumming over time, etc. that might differentiate between the various options?

Thanks again to Jocko for http://kahrtalk.com/kahr-tech/1521-proper-prep-new-kahr.html#post14512 (http://kahrtalk.com/kahr-tech/1521-proper-prep-new-kahr.html#post14512), to John for http://kahrtalk.com/kahr-tech/308-kahr-lube-diagram.html#post2217 (http://kahrtalk.com/kahr-tech/308-kahr-lube-diagram.html#post2217), and to Cappy and Ripley16 for http://kahrtalk.com/kahr-tech/197-how-detail-strip-kahrs-upper.html#post1424 (http://kahrtalk.com/kahr-tech/197-how-detail-strip-kahrs-upper.html#post1424). Great articles, all.

[ripley16]

I'm out of my comfort range using certain harsh chemicals on my guns too. There are plenty of products available that do a great job of cleaning that do no harm. Some of the tried and true are safe on just about any surface.

Some Hoppes, some brushes, patches and a stock of clean rags are all that's really needed to maintain any gun. The Kahr requires nothing beyond the routine for maintenance...stick with what you know is my advice.


Moving past the cleaners, what is your collective wisdom on oils?.
What worked on your Beretta will work on your Kahr.

[jocko]

If it is non cholorinated it will not harm polymer one bit. If you google up( and some one did this awhile back even) the contents of most all of these gun cleaners and compare them to the non cholorinated brake cleaners or non cholorinated any cleaner, they are damn near the same. Some have some perfume smelly crap in them to make the owner happy with the smell.

My suggestion of the 3M non cholorinated brake cleaners is just mine based of a few eyars of using it only. It harms nothig. It is 4X cheaper than gun scrubber which is good stuff but basically the same stuff just labeled different to sell to us suckers, who think if we pay more we get more. When you call a brake cleaner harsh, I think most are unqualified to even make that statement. They are just assuming that all brake cleaners are harsh. brake cleaners clean like most other cleaners, with a decent cleansing spray with some pressure behind it. Get some electronic spray cleaner if that wording sounds better. It is not cheap either, just like that over price compressed air crap one buys to clean his key boards etc. A real rip off.

I have no financial interest in 3M products, I just got tired of paying 8 to 12 bucks for gun scrubber whent he ingredients were almost identical. It is non cholorinated and thatis the key to any spray telling you itis polymer/rubber friendly. The maibn thing that I loved about the 3M brand was that it was forme the most pwoerful pressure cleaner I had ever used. It blew crud and crap out of the way as much as it cleaned even, IMO>

But heh, don't take my word for it, use what ever floats ur boat. I will continue to pay $2.50 for 3M non cholrinated brake cleaner NAPA #08880.
I wish I could find that article that some poster awhile back put up with about 20 or so spray cleaners and the ingredients in all of them, were almost identical.

Surley one doesn't think that Gun Scrubber makes their own secret cleaning solution and cans it???

As long as you keep your weapon clean and u are happy with what u are using, then indeed stick with it.As we all read, there is no perfect agreed upon gun lubricants and there will never be any perfect agreed upon spray cleaners...

[aray]

Thanks, this is all helpful. I like to know the "why" behind the "what".

[getsome]

Hello aray, What jocko (The Oracle) said is correct...that 3M stuff has a very powerful spray and really cleans great...With any spray type cleaner always wear safety glasses, it stings if it gets in your eyes (ask me how I know)...:eek:...I tried the 3M spray and its good stuff but I didnt care for the strong chemical odor so I use CRC brand electronic spray cleaner available at any auto parts store for 5 bucks or so for a large can...the can says on it "will not harm plastics" It doesnt have much odor at all, cleans and dries fast and isn't quite so hard on your skin....I use the 3M high pressure stuff to clean out the striker channel (DO NOT get any oil or lube in the channel as it collects crud) and the electronic spray on everything else so the boss won't get mad at me about the smell, (she can out sniff a bloodhound any day)...Either way you won't go wrong and both products will not hurt the polymer one bit....I found that Gun Scrubber is pretty harsh stuff....I had a Walther PPK with plastic grip panels and that stuff melted the plastic....Had to go and buy some fancy wood ones I wanted anyway....As for lube everyone has a favorite brand and they all work good...I also dont like the smell of CLP and dont use it anymore but it's good stuff....I am on a bit of a budget and have found that 5W20 mobil 1 synthetic engine oil works just as good as any of the high price gun lubes and a quart is a lifetime supply...I use a dab of Mobil 1 synthetic grease on the slide and slide stop lever and it seems to cling and work just fine....Hope this helps...

[VAguy]

While on the topic of cleaning polymer parts, I have a question about cleaning polymer frames and the attached components.

Are you supposed to use a spray cleaner to clean the inside of the frame, the trigger bar, cocking cam, trigger, etc?

Seems like the only way to get those areas really clean.

It would seem that if a person did use a spray cleaner it would be best to use a cleaner that left a very small amount of lube behind. Yes|No?

How do you clean these parts on your Kahr?

[wyntrout]

I use the non-chlorinated brake spray outside the house, with eye protection and I pull the striker to the rear while spraying through that little hole. With a good grip on the slide I sling some of the excess out before going back inside. At least once, it's a good idea to take the slide apart and check the striker tunnel and assembly, as there are bits of copper and brass that seem to accumulate in there. While doing that feel and inspect the striker for any burrs or areas that would use really light sanding and/or polishing. There are excellent instructions with pictures and tips/hints on doing this, especially using the self-constructed "C" clamp(made of bent coat hanger, one for each size Kahr) to retain the striker assembly while removing the back plate. After doing it once with the P380 and my P45, I'm really confident with the procedure and it's easy. I wouldn't do it after EVERY range trip, but once you've done it, it's not a "scary" procedure.
The brake cleaner strips lubricant off so you'll need to re-lube those areas.

Don't use those canned "air" things to spray the frame. If you do it wrong and spray liquid whatever onto the plastic you could affect its resilience... some of those compressed gases go WAY below zero degrees when released!:eek: Cryogenic tempering isn't good for plastic.:D
Wynn

[Bawanna]

While on the topic of cleaning polymer parts, I have a question about cleaning polymer frames and the attached components.

Are you supposed to use a spray cleaner to clean the inside of the frame, the trigger bar, cocking cam, trigger, etc?

Seems like the only way to get those areas really clean.

It would seem that if a person did use a spray cleaner it would be best to use a cleaner that left a very small amount of lube behind. Yes|No?

How do you clean these parts on your Kahr?

That's basically what I do, I either use the spray cleaner or solvent and qtip to flush out the dirt and crude or a solvent tank. Unless I shoot a whole bunch of rounds or it's really dirty for some reason I don't do a total flush each time, sometimes I just get in there with patches and dental picks and get the worst of it. Then I put a drop of oil on the important spots, known wear areas trigger, trigger bar etc, then just a light spray of light oil on the rest to replace the oil that all got taken off. I like DuLite, I have a hard time finding it but it's what most of the mfg's spray on their guns before they go in the bag and get shipped out. It doesnt build up, when you spray it on, it takes off the old, great for guns in the safe. Good stuff, I gotta find some more. Rebluers use it alot, that's where I got my last cans but the guy moved.

[wyntrout]

Here are some pictures and there are other posts with more info after this, but these pictures lay out the assemblies as they come out of the gun.

Being careful not to throw the gun:eek:, I sling excess oil into a paper towel to keep it from dripping so much. The trigger and trigger bar assembly are hard to under-lube.:D

http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistols/2077-wynns-gunshow-pm45-p380-followup-range-report-2.html#post22349

Here are some long-winded explanations of these assemblies and how they go together:
http://kahrtalk.com/general-discussion/2065-pm9-cleaning-question.html

I hope this helps a bit.

Wynn

[jocko]

Normally a cleaner that supposably has a lubricant in it, does not do a good job of cleaning. Clean with a good cleaner and then just relube. One can spray pil the lower section of kahrs with ease. no dissasembly required..These are not rolex watchs.

[recoilguy]

I like weapon sheild.......because it smells real good. It cleans great and it is a nice slick lubricant. It is more then a giant can of stuff for 3 bucks but over the course of a year it barely matters. But thats just me.

RCG

[wyntrout]

Do you use it like a cologne... that armed and manly scent??
Wynn:D

[wyntrout]

That brings to mind the new "wipes" and "sniffers" they are going to be using in the airport screenings now. You don't want to wear "range" clothes or go from the range to flying without a complete shower and different clothes. This could be a real delay and aggravation at the airport.
My wife had extra scrutiny... not a body search... returning from her folks in Colorado. they burn their trash and she had been doing that to "help out" while outside smoking. That was about 2 1/2 years ago!
Of course, to avoid "profiling", they'll be doing these checks on EVERYONE... well, maybe not "Muslim-looking" people!
Where's Bawanna' and his new toy? I hope he doesn't get a ticket or have a wreck!
Wynn:D

[VAguy]

Thanks for all the responses.

I have seen the Kahr 10 point lube diagram. It only shows 1 lube point for the frame, that being the guide rails.

Are there any photos of where to lube on the frame, should I completely de-grease/lube it? I mean besides just spraying with a can of lube......what if I wanted to judiciously apply lube at specific points, what points would they be?

BTW, we got my wife's CW45 back from Kahr and they replaced the trigger bar this time. Hope to get to the range soon and back to the business of shooting holes in paper.....both of us.

[wyntrout]

The guide rails could use some kind of grease on them and in the little grooves at the front of the slide that engage the metal rails. I put some white lithium grease in those areas and in the grooves and on the plastic rails. I put a drop or so of oil on the trigger spring, the trigger bar and the upper outside right of the frame where part of the trigger bar or whatever shows... and on the cam/sear. I work the trigger a bit and then carefully sling the excess off into a paper towel, trying not to throw the pistol, and then wipe the everything down. Everyone has his own favorite lubes and procedures, so there are a lot of variations, but you want to lube everything that moves and rubs together, short of spraying anything into the striker housing that will capture crud and cause a jam there. I've sprayed Remington DriLube in there, but most agree that it should be pretty dry. There are a lot of tiny bits of copper and brass that wind up in that area and the non-chlorinated brake cleaner can blast most of that out of the front and back of the striker channel/tunnel.
Wynn:)

[ripley16]

I also use a daub a TW25b on both the two front and the two small rearmost rails. That along with a thin layer of Militec-1 oil in the four grooves seems to work well. The polymer rails need no lube.

[jocko]

Thanks for all the responses.

I have seen the Kahr 10 point lube diagram. It only shows 1 lube point for the frame, that being the guide rails.

Are there any photos of where to lube on the frame, should I completely de-grease/lube it? I mean besides just spraying with a can of lube......what if I wanted to judiciously apply lube at specific points, what points would they be?

BTW, we got my wife's CW45 back from Kahr and they replaced the trigger bar this time. Hope to get to the range soon and back to the business of shooting holes in paper.....both of us.

u pay attention to what Wyn just stated, you need go no further with the lower section of your kahr, You can spray clean every part of that gun without disasembly. One can avoid putting any grease ont eh polymer rails IMO as they serve no purpose other than guiding the slide ont he gun. Once on the slide should never touch those rails. If by chance there are some sliver on the polymer rails , you can take some very fine sand paper and just smooth that down, or the slide from firing it will also smooth out any high spots on those polymer rails. That lube diagrahm is the best, if you adhear to that you will be good to go with any semi,not just kahrs.

There are lots of great lubes out there, so find what floats your boat and just stick with it. My preference is TW25 (Mil-comm.com) as they sell that TW25 white grease in a syringe type applicator which allows me to run a small line of grease right down insdie the slide rails without making anymess. By doing that to the slide I really do not need to put any grease on the lower section at all. Also can do the same with the front rails inbedded in the frame/grip to. no mess at all..

You shold look at the kahr tech section and find the PROPPER PREPPING OFYOURNEW KAHR. there are some helpful tips there to.

[joshh]

so do you actually spray the polymer grip asm with the brake cleaner? i just am afraid of melting my new toy. never worried about melting the glock & had good luck with polymer safe cleaner but i recently melted a set of ruger grips with a "polymer safe" cleanser...

[gunmut]

News flash: Walmart brand Super Tech brake cleaner is offered in a non chlorinated formula (says so right on the can). Cost about $2 for a large can.

[jocko]

if it is non cholorinated, it is perfect for polymer. Most all spray cleaners today are non cholorinated. If you feel totaly uncomfortable using a spray cleaner that says for brakes etc, then indeed pay the $8+ bucks for a cleaner that is basically the same stuff that says for guns.

I advise with any spray cleaner to wear some rubber throw away gloves, as most clenaers will take the oil right out of your hands to. With any spray cleaner,I never get that stuff on wood grips either. as the finish used on wood grips won't hold up to most any cleaner. Course common sense should tell one that to.

I can only relate to what I have used the past 4+ years and that is the 3M non cholorinated high pressure brake claenr that one can buy at NAPA. part # 08880, it's a big black can with the most spray pressure of any cleaner I have ever used. Thats what sold me on the 3M product. Maybe most other brands have the same pressure to, I just know my GunScrubber never had this much pressure..

[mfcmb]

I used Eezox, a cleaner/lubricant/rust protector on my CW9 for years with no visible problems to the polymer. It uses trichoroethelene (spelling?) as the solvent.

Gunzilla is another cleaner/lubricant/rust protector that works well and claims to have only organic ingredients.

Both Eezox and Gunzilla are very low viscosity. Eezox leaves a "dry" film, and Gunzilla leaves a thin "wet" film.

Weapon Shield looks and pours like a low viscosity motor oil. If your gun feels a bit loose (like mine does after thousands of rounds) then using Weapon Shield can make the action feel tighter and smoother than using Eezox or Gunzilla.

[Tack]

I'm a Glock Armorer and have maintained 25 Glocks for the past 15 years using non clorinated brake cleaner from VIP and NAPA.

Plus my personal Glocks as well as friends guns and my CW45. I haven't melted a frame yet, so I really wouldn't worry about using non clorinated brake cleaner on your pistol.

YMMV, but that's what's worked for me.

[bamaman]

I have used non-chlorinated brake cleaner for about 7 years on all my pistols. (inside frame, slide, barrel, trigger, everywhere) makes for fast cleaning. Just be sure to re-lube properly after you clean with it. It wipes out all the dirt and grime as well as the grease and oil the pistol is lubed with.

I have no problem or worries with it. I spray inside polymer frames as well as aluminum frames to clean all the springs, pins, nooks and crannies. I agree with jocko, you can buy the gunscrubber stuff, but it costs an arm and a leg, and is the same stuff as the non-chlorinated brake cleaner. Wal-mart, Auto stores, and
Dollar general stores carry this product. $2.00-$3.00 a can

Definately cuts down on cleaning time.

[jocko]

kinda hard today even to find any sprays that are non cholorinated. all of the above names are good stuff. The only reason I have recommended the NAPA 3M brand is that although I have not tried alot of spray cleaners, this damn NAPA 3M stuff is so powerful coming out of the can, that is what sold me.Most all cleaners clean but I found this 3M stuff so powerful that it not only cleaned, it blowed the hell out of areas that one need not dissamble. the striker channel was one area where it not only will clean well but literally blow the crapola out of there.. Hell none of these gun makers make their cleaners, probably very few speciality companies make these chemical sprays, but they will no doubt can their stuff for under your label and call it anything u want. Gun Scrubber comes too mind. Really a good name when your looking for a good cleaner, but just for me to to expensive for what it is . It does make me feel kinda good that some others have come here and stated they have used non cholorinated brake cleaners for many many years, actually longer than I even have for sure.

I recommend with any of the above cleaners to wear rubber gloves or for sure keep that spray off your hands for it will take the oil out ofyour skin real fast. lubricate your hands after cleaning if no gloves are worn. error on the side of caution. no cleaner can clean and yet be gentle to ones skin..

[jocko]

Thanks for all the responses.

I have seen the Kahr 10 point lube diagram. It only shows 1 lube point for the frame, that being the guide rails.

Are there any photos of where to lube on the frame, should I completely de-grease/lube it? I mean besides just spraying with a can of lube......what if I wanted to judiciously apply lube at specific points, what points would they be?

BTW, we got my wife's CW45 back from Kahr and they replaced the trigger bar this time. Hope to get to the range soon and back to the business of shooting holes in paper.....both of us.

spray clean my lower on my kahr, it will clean right down to the bare metal, so one must reoil/relube, what ever is ur choice My method is tw25 on the front dust cover rails and a tad bit of it onthe cocking cam.and some on that half moon part of the trigger bar that is located at the right side back. That half moon comes into contact with the slide when the slide moves backward... a drop of oil on the trigger spring and a drop of oil on the trigger where that curly cue spring hooks over the top of the trigger bar. I always put a drop of oil on one side of the cocking cam and let it run where ever it wants. Mind you when I say a drop of oil I mean a drop of opil. It only takes a drop to get into alot of places. I may even overdue some of these lube spots but that is what I do