TPP-Trans Pacific Partnership. Secret trade bill, can't be good

[TheTman]

There is some Trade agreement called the Trans Pacific Partnership being looked at by congress, that I think we should be aware of. The secrecy surrounding this agreement tells me that it can't be good for the public. From what I hear it's an agreement by corporations for corporations which means it will probably screw over the general public and probably pretty bad they way they are hiding it from us. It's so secret, that congressmen, have to view it privately, after being sworn to secrecy, not to reveal anything about it. They aren't allowed any cameras, they can't take notes, or tape recordings, and can only view part of it at a time. If it did ANYTHING to benefit the public, then there wouldn't be all this secrecy around it. I think it's basically a way for corporations to increase their profits at the publics expense. Worse, is they want to put this on the "Fast Track" so that when it does come up for a vote, only a yes or no vote is allowed, with no debate, and no amendments allowed. Some are calling it NAFTA on steroids, and NAFTA cost us quite a few jobs, one can only guess how bad this TPP is going to screw us over. I'm sick of Congress ramming crap down our throats without us even having a chance to look it over. I think people should be aware of this, find out what little you can about it. And probably contact your congressmen and tell them to vote no, or at least get it off the fast track, and to let the public have a look so we can see what all is hidden in this thing. There is a pretty wide consensus among the talking heads that anything this secret can't be good for the public. I don't see how they can even do such a thing as keep it locked away and limit access to it like they are doing. Who has the power to keep something like this locked away like it is? The President? State Department? Speaker of the House and President of the Senate?
That just doesn't sound legal. Sounds like something that would go on in Russia or something. Everything I've heard about it seems bad; things like extending prescription patents so it takes longer for generics to be available, not being able to label GMO food as such. Not being able to label things as possibly unhealthy like say, catfish from Viet Nam raised in the Mekong Sewer of a river. Plus I think there are 24 chapters to the deal, and only 5 are being made available for the secret viewing. And supposedly, if our laws conflict with the provisions of this agreement, then some corporation can sue us, and not for just profits lost, but POTENTIAL lost profits, and even force us to change our laws somehow, or maybe just keep getting sued if we don't change the law. Hard to say since no one knows much about it.
This sounds like totally un-American corporate BS they want to ram down our throats. Rand Paul is demanding that it be made public, but I don't know how much support he has. If you google it, there are a lot of short videos about it on YouTube, and some articles discussing what little is known about it.
I think we need to find out as much as we can about this. And probably hound congress to make it public, and to vote no on it.
This is government by the corporations for the corporations. I've not run across ONE article or video that has anything positive to say about this thing.
I wish I could tell you more, but there's not much info available on it. Knowing Obama, there's probably some gun control BS hidden in there somewhere that nobody has seen.

[Armybrat]

If your congresscritter votes in favor of this secret bill, then he/she should be voted out of office. Same goes for those who voted to pass Obamacare.

This is not how our government was set up to function.

[JohnR]

It will be passed, by the LibDems and the LibReps. Some of us will shake our heads, most people will never hear about it. Too busy talking about Caitlyn Jenner and Tweeting on their Chinese-Made smartphones. There's really nothing we can do but sit back and watch the sun set on this nation. No one will be voted out of office for supporting this. I'm not being a doom-monger, just applying the past six years' events to current affairs and extrapolating forward.

[marcinstl]

now what part of "global economy" don't you understand? after WW2, the British Empire was failing, did the rich English whine about that? yes. then they started buying farmland in Illinois, etc. got to deploy your funds in places where it will continue to grow. US industry moved from union north, to scab south, to Mexico, then on to Asia. see the curve, stay ahead of the curve. "Globalization" was a buzz word from before Nixon, running thru Reagan, Clinton, Bush, Obama and beyond.
http://www.goldmansachs.com/our-thinking/archive/2015/index.html
and here is supreme leader--- http://www.goldmansachs.com/our-thinking/podcasts/episodes/5-20-2015-lloyd-blankfein.html
forget any and all news, political or religious views, go straight to the source, this is the Wall St.

[b4uqzme]

A quick internet search and there's a lot of biased and maybe unreliable information. It's hard to tell. I'm not anti-corporation. I cash one of their paychecks every other week. But Tman is correct, this doesn't smell right. Where's all that transparency we were promised? I know --- stupid question. :(

[marcinstl]

just read the market analysis (it's free) from the goldmansacks and listen to podcast by ruler of the universe and that's about as close to the truth as your ever going to get. in that analysis and backup from other sources, make your investment decisions, watch the charts, don't panic. buy low, sell high, not the other way around. if you don't have money in the market, then use coupons and watch sales, work on the books to cover Soc. Sec. and FICA, then go to your off books, cash job. good luck. stay busy.

[TheTman]

I've found out a few things over the last few days that make me sick. The only reason we went to war with Libya, was they were trying to make their gold dinar the currency of Africa and the muslim nations, and the Rothchilds and Co. didn't want any competition for their Central banks they've set up in most countries. http://libyanwarthetruth.com/ So the powers that be had us attack them, and made sure we killed Qudaffi. A married couple, The Moriartys were in Libya from 2003 until Feb 2011 working on oil wells, and got to know the people and tribes very well. Most everything said about Libya, the Lockerbie bombing and all, was a setup. Quadaffi had cooperated fully with all the conditions that were put on him, yet they still needed to take him out. Libya was the most modern country in North Africa, all religions were welcome, and radical islamists were not.
You can catch the Moriarty's story on the Hagmann and Hagmann report http://www.hagmannandhagmann.com/ It's long, but worth the listen if you want to know how our govt. get's manipulated by the Elite.
I would encourage everyone to listen to that interview. It really gives a lot of insight into the way the world is run these days. I think you can download an MP3 of it, so you can listen to it as you have time. They tell how the US imported radical islamists into the country to destabilize it, and to attack Benghazi. I guess Ambassador Stevens was on Hillary's hit list, hence the stand down orders.
It really makes me sick to hear how the Elite snaps their fingers and we send troops to do their bidding. I wonder how many American lives have been lost over this Illuminati power trip. I know this is pretty far out there, and may be hard to believe, but with our current administration I don't find it totally unbelievable at all.
And that they make up all kinds of lies for the news channels to tell us so they can justify it to the American People.

Obama now wants to ban all technical talk and information about guns from the internet, how to manuals, technical gun forums, anything that tells how to keep a gun running. Forums included. Goodbye Kahrtalk, GlockTalk, The 1911 forum, etc. http://www.americasfreedomfighters.com/2015/06/08/alert-obama-writes-new-laws-to-throw-people-in-prison-for-talking-about-guns-on-the-internet-2a-nra/ and http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/nra-gun-blogs-videos-web-forums-threatened-by-new-obama-regulation/article/2565762
with an executive order of course, I doubt this would make it through congress.

Ike warned us about the industrial military complex and the messes they would get us into, and we've been warned by many against forming a central bank. Our leaders should have paid closer attention. It's too late now, even if we voted every congressmen out of office, they would just be replaced by a new bunch that would be corrupted quickly.
Knowing some of these things that go on behind our backs, and that we're sold fake news stories to get us behind these wars that only benefit the Elite, make me not so proud to be an American, or rather an American living under the govt. we are stuck with. I feel like we're not much more than just another arm of the Elite/Globalist Empire. They just haven't assumed public power yet, and stay in the shadows. About a dozen or so families control 70% of the free worlds corporations and wealth, robbing us blind with their Central banks and controlling the governments of the free world. Call em the Elite, the Illuminati, Zionists, New World Order, Banksters, Bilderbergers, whatever. But they could care less about anyone but themselves. They control all the major media, so you'll never hear anything they don't want you too on the major news networks. They control all aspects of entertainment, TV, Movies, and Music. They hate Christians and worship Lucifer. And pity the country that doesn't have one of their central banking systems. Libya Iraq and Afghanistan were countries that didn't have a central bank. Iran doesn't have one, and is next on the list.
When the Elite do decide to drop the hammer, it's going to drop hard. I hope everyone's stocked up on the necessities they need to get by for a year or so. There's not going to be any grocery stores, gas stations, hospitals, or anything else we've come to rely on. The FEMA camps will open, and some will live (they will need the slave labor) and many will die. Don't take my word for it, do some investigation of your own if you want to survive the next few years, outside of a FEMA camp. Although I imagine at some point we'll either be dead or in a camp somewhere, if we can't put up a strong defense. And it's going to be too late when you see the SWAT team close off your block for the house to house search, or pull in your driveway. About all you can do then is go out in a blaze of glory. Hopefully we will have enough people in the armed forces that will defend the constitution instead of blind obedience to Obama, but they are trying to weed those types out of the service, at least in the upper levels.
God bless the American Patriots, and may we be able to stand up against whatever evil comes our way.

[JohnR]

So many conspiracy theories, so little time...

I just read an article on Castro brokering drug trafficking to the US as part of his (and Moscow's) plan to destabilize our culture. The KGB was quite active in South America, too, spreading Liberation Theology (see Pope Francis and Obama's Black Liberation Theology) and I'm sure they helped the drug cartels along.

There's another news story the other day saying that Disney was firing Americans and replacing them with furriners even as they show all-time record profits as a company. It's not about the money. My honest guess, it's about the work ethic. The libtards have bred a full generation of brain-dead zombies not worth hiring, who think they're entitled to the moon and the stars just for showing up.

[JohnR]

And don't forget the Russians are still trying to manipulate global events. They want to sell oil and gas. http://www.aim.org/aim-column/the-secret-russian-role-in-global-conflict/?utm_source=AIM+-+Daily+Email&utm_campaign=email060915&utm_medium=email

[b4uqzme]

So many conspiracy theories, so little time...

I just read an article on Castro brokering drug trafficking to the US as part of his (and Moscow's) plan to destabilize our culture. The KGB was quite active in South America, too, spreading Liberation Theology (see Pope Francis and Obama's Black Liberation Theology) and I'm sure they helped the drug cartels along.

There's another news story the other day saying that Disney was firing Americans and replacing them with furriners even as they show all-time record profits as a company. It's not about the money. My honest guess, it's about the work ethic. The libtards have bred a full generation of brain-dead zombies not worth hiring, who think they're entitled to the moon and the stars just for showing up.

Or not showing up in my experience. You couldn't pay me to have a staff again.

[Armybrat]

And don't forget the Russians are still trying to manipulate global events. They want to sell oil and gas. http://www.aim.org/aim-column/the-secret-russian-role-in-global-conflict/?utm_source=AIM+-+Daily+Email&utm_campaign=email060915&utm_medium=email

Hillary allowed the rooskies to get control of 20% of the US uranium market in return for millions of $$ in "donations" to the Clinton Foundation, which primarily exists as their slush fund.

[b4uqzme]

^^^ funny how most politicians can't seem to understand a simple supply and demand graph but they sure know how to cash in on their positions.

[TheTman]

I should have said I'm ashamed of the govt. not that I'm ashamed to be an American living under this govt. I'm still proud of the things that previous generations did, just saddened at the way things have turned out.

I saw a ad asking if you are on Hillary's mailing list and about 3500 libtards were quick to declare that Hillary has their vote. I wanted to comment that their lobotomies were working out well, if they are going to vote for this murdering lying beyotch, but figured it would just get deleted.

The thing is that their is too often more truth in the conspiracy theories, than there is in the nightly news on about any channel. I'm glad that al least some of us have our eyes open.
My main reason for watching the alternate news, is I want to have some idea when the hammer is going to drop. And there will most likely be leaks, warning its going to drop before it actually drops. And I'm also looking for other signs of major importance that could have a big impact on our lives. I've been pretty sick the last couple of weeks, so this gives me something to do. It seems like there are other countries enacting tolitarian laws, and doing crazy stuff, that has their citizens in an uproar, so it's not just us. I think it's the New World Order shadow governments flexing their muscle to see what they can get away with.

[Exiledviking]

Well put, sir! This "treaty" stinks badly. I still have hope that we can right this ship.

[marcinstl]

" I still have hope that we can right this ship."
who is this "we"? some kind of tech. workers down on deck 1130? the stealth starship(disguised as a mud ball, we call "earth") is hurtling thru space and making money for the people who run it. with millions and millions of people who all want to be happy, the hardest working or the sharpest are some times rewarded. the world economy is cyclical and the people up on the bridge, start, stop and control the trends and bubbles. right now it looks like the US has to suck it up a little as the Chinese become more prosperous, the Japanese and Europeans have had their day. as long as the ship stays in a controllable orbit, most of the people believe in some kind of god and fiat money, entertain themselves with porn, wrastling and conspiracy theories, it'll be ok. as long as there's bbq and ammo, I'm good.

[getsome]

This "Fast Track" trade bill kinda sounds like another recent wool pullin....Remember when Nancy Pisslosi said "We have to pass it to find out what's in it" Hummmmmmm, that one didn't work out quite like it was being sold, did it?....Any trade bill done up in a back room in total secrecy with very few having seen the full text of the draft can't be good....Every single line should be openly discussed and subject to public debate and oversight...There is no question that this ramrod Trans Pacific trade agreement will benefit few if any working Americans and will most likely lead to more outsourced jobs and shuttered domestic manufacturing plants here in the states.....

[JohnR]

One word: BOHICA.

[TheTman]

You might get to keep the bbq, I doubt if you get to keep the ammo or anything to shoot it with. Probably won't be much to bbq in a FEMA camp, if they let you live.
Here is one of the better articles on the TPP that I have come across: http://www.hagmannandhagmann.com/archives/1966

I think if "we" are going to right this ship, it's probably not going to be done through the voting booth. We keep voting in the same old corrupt congressmen, because we think it's not our congressmen that are corrupt, it's the ones from the other states. We need to vote out ALL incumbents. ALL of them are corrupt in one way or another. ALL of them are owned by some corporation or organization. Even if it means voting against the party you've voted for all your life. Hopefully the incumbent can be defeated in the primaries and you can still vote your preferred party.

The presidential candidates are selected for us. They make different promises and then break them once they win the election. Then the winner takes orders from the puppet masters that have been pulling the strings for I don't know how long. Point in case: Hillary had a pretty good head of steam built up and looked to be headed to win the nomination, then one of her top advisors got murdered as a warning to her, and she backed off and practically gave the nomination to Obama. If Hillary gets the nomination, you can count on massive election fraud to put her in office. Hopefully Bernie Sanders will run as an independent and split the Democratic vote enough that the voter fraud won't be enough for her to win. For whatever that is worth, depending on who the Republican nominee is. But even if we do get a Republican in office, will he do the people's building, or be another puppet?

I found another article that sheds a little more light on this monstrosity: http://www.rosieontheright.com/the-terrible-truth-about-the-trans-pacific-partners-agreement/

[getsome]

I hate to break it to you Tman but Hill & Bill have already been selected to be the next administration by whoever or whatever is really running this country....I think that elections have been fixed for quite some time now and we are only going through the motions when we go to the polls because the outcome has already been determined....

HillBillary will be the perfect fit for the shadow corporate government that is really in control of America and the sheeple....While Hillbabes was Secretary of State the Swedish giant global corporatioin Erickson wanted to sell some equipment to Iran which was on the no go list and with a simple extremely large charitable donation to the Clinton Foundation it was magically determined that the equipment was suddenly ok and the deal was approved by the State Department....Imagaine that....What better administration could the corporate gangsters want in office....It's perfect...

[Bawanna]

While this makes me throw up a little bit in my mouth, I firmly believe it's true. Extremely sad and dissapointing but true.

I'm not a smart man but I also believe the IQ of the average american voter isn't helping anything either.

In real life I know a lady wouldn't vote for Bush cause his eyes are too close together.

The presidential election is an excellent political grand stand for candidates to make their name or endorse their beliefs or ideals, many knowing from the start they have no chance whatsoever of winning.
Just muddies the waters for real candidates, haven't seen any yet but still have hope.

I don't think the polls alone is gonna get it done.

[TheTman]

I think that depends on how popular Hillary is in the primaries. She has a lot of hard core backers, but plenty of democrats are tired of her crap. The shadow govt. has to keep up the illusion that we are actually accomplishing something by voting to keep the peasants happy. And with Obama be so unpopular, it would be strange that another Democrat would be voted in to follow him. I would think they'd pick a like minded Republican, I thought it might have been Jeb Bush at one point, but no so sure who it might be now. And this is assuming that Obama actually does leave office. A lot could happen in the next year and a half. We could get nuked or EMP'd or something. A civil war or race war could erupt. Hillary could be convicted for using that email server. (fat chance, but it COULD happen) It's still too early to really tell in my opinion. You could be right though. Who knows? Henry Kissinger could probably tell us.

[JohnR]

It doesn't matter who's elected, the shadow government will do whatever it wants anyway, as long as they can get away with it, and they will figure out a way. Speaking of which, the Bilderbergs are meeting next week.

This thread reminds me of the blind men standing around an elephant, touching whatever's nearest. Each one has a totally different concept of what the animal is. I guess a psychologist would have a field day analyzing each of us based on who we think is really running the world!

[TheTman]

http://www.kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12669&stc=1

The small print says William Blum Former US State Department Employee.

Some of the stories I've heard are pretty horrible. I hate to imagine what actually might be going on in some of those secret labs.

[muggsy]

What, me worry? Why is it that most people fear things that they don't understand? Since no one really knows what's in the bill, why all the panic? I'm hearing that the bill was designed to level the playing field on foreign trade and that it was designed to protect IP (intellectual property) Our intellectual property. Since I don't know exactly what's in the bill, I'll reserve comment. I'll will only say that not everything done behind closed doors is done to harm us. I have all of the confidence in the world that if it's a bad bill that it will be defeated.

https://ustr.gov/tpp

[JohnR]

What, me worry? Why is it that most people fear things that they don't understand? Since no one really knows what's in the bill, why all the panic? I'm hearing that the bill was designed to level the playing field on foreign trade and that it was designed to protect IP (intellectual property) Our intellectual property. Since I don't know exactly what's in the bill, I'll reserve comment. I'll will only say that not everything done behind closed doors is done to harm us. I have all of the confidence in the world that if it's a bad bill that it will be defeated.

https://ustr.gov/tpp
When did they legalize pot in Ohio? :confused:

http://d2iersgu5ufeir.cloudfront.net/cdn/farfuture/KmTIuj1nk01h9Xr_ty_kRf74nWV63HiUMIPJgy1o5Sc/mtime:1391628334/storage_bin/imagecache/product_thumb/products/plastisol/2012/15916-12x14-sure-you-can-trust-government-just-ask-indian.png

[TheTman]

Nuggs, if there was anything good for the public in it, why would it be kept so secret? If it was good for the public it would be out there for us to see and they would be telling us all the good points of the treaty. No this is strictly to benefit corporations and the Elite. One thing it does is extend the life of medicine patents, so generics will take longer to hit the shelf. A friend of mine just got some new medicine for a very serious condition, and the stuff costs $1000 per day, and he has to take it for 30 days. I wonder if Obamacare would have allowed that, or since he is over 60, told him that his life isn't worth saving. Medicare sure wouldn't pay for any of it. He was lucky that he qualified for some program to get it at a HUGE discount.
I see you get your information from a government website of course they are going to say how wonderful it is. I notice it didn't mention any of the gun control measures that are thought to be buried in the bill. Your link to the govt. website is the only thing I've run across that has anything positive to say about the treaty. I don't think anyone is "panicked" about it, concerned would be a better term. Some things done is secret have helped us, like the Manhattan Project. But we are not at war with any of the countries in the agreement, so why all the secrecy? And why the push to "fast track" it, where there will be no debate over it, no chance to amend it, just a yes or no vote. Is that how you think our govt. should operate? I'd like to know what ever happened to this being the most transparent administration ever, with all bills put out on the Internet for two weeks prior to them being voted on for public review. Instead we get laws crammed down our throats with no one even knowing what's in them.

JohnR. I think that the average citizens are today's Indians. And FEMA camps will be our Reservations.

[getsome]

I look at it this way, if Obummer is so much for the fast track shove it through without anyone knowing what it's all about deal then it must be a terrible thing for America since his only ambition seems to be to destroy what little is left of our economy before he FINALLY leaves office!!!....Look for more of the same in the coming months with half of the Republicans running for President and throwing muck and mud at each other it will give Hussein more room to play his little "I Hate America" games and finish the job of bringing this country to it's financial knees and into par with the other 3rd world Muslim countries he loves so much....

[JohnR]

gun control measures that are thought to be buried in the bill
Wait, what???

[Armybrat]

You might get to keep the bbq, I doubt if you get to keep the ammo or anything to shoot it with. Probably won't be much to bbq in a FEMA camp, if they let you live.


Speakin' of BBQ, check out this $12 beef short rib (weighed in at 20 ounces) - smoked for 15 hours by one of Texas' best cooks.
It was juicy & falling off the bone, yet the fat was rendered out for the most part, and the bark was outstanding:

http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/a68352934580ddcf1a4fbac603d6630fa20b3a6.jpg

[Bawanna]

Looks like lunch to me. Ooops, nope peanut butter and jelly again today.

[TheTman]

That rib looks mighty good. Better be for $12. ($9.00/LB) That was the price after it was smoked right? You can get a whole slab of pork ribs for about that down the road a bit.

JohnR, I've only heard/read this gun control part a couple of times, but they said they thought that there was some kind of small arms treaty in the thing, which could mean about any type of gun control legislation, from import tariffs or outright bans or bans on ammo imports or exports, to whatever they want to sneak into it. Obama's already tried making lead unobtainable by shutting down the lead smelting plant in MO. to buying up all that ammo to create shortages and every trick he can think of to make ammo hard to get. I wouldn't put it past him to sneak some kind of gun control into this treaty, or too ban lead trade or whatever he might have dreamed up.
But I can't say for certain whether or not any gun control is actually in the deal, since I've only seen or heard it mentioned a couple of times, both referencing some kind of small arms treaty, and neither had much more info other than it was in the thing. I saw an interview with Mitch McConnell on Fox or CNN, and when asked why the secrecy, he assured the interviewer that once it was ready to be voted on, all the details would be made known. Which I highly doubt, or if they are, it would probably be right before the vote, so no one could contact their congressmen and give any input on it. If they are keeping it so secret now, why would they make it public? Unless it was so big it would take weeks to wade through it, and by that time it would have been voted on. I've heard there are 26-29 chapters of it, and only 5 of them have been made available. The whole thing may not even be written yet.
If this had something to do with secret weapons, or spy stuff, I could see a reason for the secrecy, but if it is just a trade agreement, why the need for secrecy, unless it's going to really screw over the public, with higher prices, and more taxes. Almost everything I've been able to find out about points to bigger corporate profits, more protection for copyrighted entertainment, and international courts that would somehow be able to override our Supreme Courts rulings. I guess you could take a look at NAFTA, and kind of get an idea of what a watered down version of this treaty might look like.

[JohnR]

We the people (the few who still care) can't keep sitting on our lazy butts about crap like this. But the politicians won't listen. That narrows our options.

[muggsy]

When did they legalize pot in Ohio? :confused:

http://d2iersgu5ufeir.cloudfront.net/cdn/farfuture/KmTIuj1nk01h9Xr_ty_kRf74nWV63HiUMIPJgy1o5Sc/mtime:1391628334/storage_bin/imagecache/product_thumb/products/plastisol/2012/15916-12x14-sure-you-can-trust-government-just-ask-indian.png

They didn't and they won't.

[muggsy]

Anything that benefits the corporations and so called elite also benefits us peons. A rising tide floats all boats. Bringing the corporations down won't benefit you in the least. Thinking that bringing down the corporations will make you richer is how the liberals think, or don't think. I don't know if this bill is worth a fiddlers tune, but if it isn't it probably won't pass. Remember, deals are made to be broken.

[JohnR]

Ever stop to consider that the news media is trying to discourage us by only reporting bad news? Silly question, I know.

Sure, close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, but...


​A whopping 34 courageous conservative Republicans shocked the political world on Thursday by severely wounding—and nearly killing—Obamatrade on a purely procedural vote (http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2015/roll359.xml).


http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/06/11/blood-in-the-water-34-conservatives-wound-obamatrade-on-way-to-final-house-vote/

[muggsy]

Now old Muggsy is not the type of guy to say I told you so, but if he were do you know what he'd say? I told you so. The TPP bill went down in flames by a three to one margin in the House of Representatives. Obama got it stuck in his arse by his own party. Today is the tomorrow that you worried about yesterday and all's well. Oh ye of little faith, when will you learn to trust old Muggsy's judgement? I thought that I had made a mistake once, but I was wrong. I'm making a crow pie and I'm saving a slice for TheTman and JohnR. :) (I hope that these guys have a sense of humor, Bawanna.)

[JohnR]

Hey, crow tastes like chicken! Add some pesto sauce and garlic bread, mashed potatoes, good stuff!

[TheTman]

Well Muggs I doubt if was people like you sitting on their arses doing nothing that got this bill defeated. It was due to concerned citizens taking action and badgering their congressmen. How many petitions did you sign? How many times did you contact your congressmen? You can eat your own damn pie. I made the calls and wrote the emails and signed the petitions. What did you do to get it stopped?

[TheTman]

This is a stange turn of politics you got the RINO's and other Republicans in Obama's corner, and the Democrats lined up against him. I guess that's another sign that the corporations would have made out like bandits, and the common people would have been screwed. If you believe the crap about Republicans being for the Corporations, and Democrats being for the common people. Which I never really bought into, but who knows? Oh Muggsy does, I forgot.

[muggsy]

This is a stange turn of politics you got the RINO's and other Republicans in Obama's corner, and the Democrats lined up against him. I guess that's another sign that the corporations would have made out like bandits, and the common people would have been screwed. If you believe the crap about Republicans being for the Corporations, and Democrats being for the common people. Which I never really bought into, but who knows? Oh Muggsy does, I forgot.

JohnR took my kidding the right way. I didn't do a damn thing, because I knew that the trade bill didn't have a snowballs chance in hell of passing. I never sign a petition, because petitions are meaningless. Individual hand written letters are meaningful. I knew how my representative would vote, because he's a conservative.

[TheTman]

Muggs, I'm totally sorry that I jumped ugly on you. I was tired and hurting and something else had been frustrating me and I took it out on you.
You are a good man Muggs, sometimes I just take your kidding wrong, and sometimes we don't see eye to eye. But that is no reason to jump ugly on you like I did.

[JohnR]

Is this the global government framework the elites want to shove down our throat?

http://mobile.wnd.com/2015/06/no-wonder-obama-wont-let-us-read-tpp/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+quicksnailsfeed+%28quicksnail sfeed%29

[TheTman]

Yes, that is exactly what they want to keep hidden from us until after it passes. The house did pass some component of it this week. I'm mystified by the Republicans backing Obama on this, and the Democrats being the hold outs. This is a trade bill for pete's sake, not some secret weapon or something, so why does it have to be shrouded in such secrecy? Because it's gonna screw the average American is my guess.

[JohnR]

They have to be extorting the people who voted for it. Google "The Finders" to see one example.

[TheTman]

I've been running across stories of that nature for quite awhile. Some more horrifying than others. They seem too bizarre to be real, so most just brush them off as conspiracy theories. But is it? People do get arrested for that kind of crap all the time.

[TheTman]

Muggsy, you need to tell us again there is nothing to worry about, the Senate didn't get your message. (just kidding) They just voted for the last bill to clear the way for the vote on the TPP. It's expected to be passed and awaiting the Obummer's signature within the week. I don't think we are going to like one bit what is in this bill once we see it. Look for more GMO food to appear on the grocery shelves, higher taxes on some items, and some form of gun control, Possibly the UN Small Arms treaty, Difficult to say other than it was said to have some gun control measures. And who knows what other bits of crap thrown in that are going to be widely unpopular. When a government has to resort to the shroud of secrecy, that surrounded this bill, I don't think that bill should be obeyed. If this had something to do with national security and needed secrecy, that would be one thing, but a supposed trade bill, (only 5 of the 26 or so chapters deals with trade) a bill that is going to enrich corporations and screw the American citizen shouldn't be allowed to be hidden away like this is. I did see where certain higher ups in several food corporations were allowed to possess a draft of the bill.
The states should pass there own bills now to counteract anything in it they don't like. And the rest of us should ignore any of it we can. Someone needs to sponsor legislation so this can't happen again. Too late for this bill, it's all set now for a straight yea or nay vote, no discussion, no amendments.
If this is how they are going to get things done, perhaps it's time to water a certain tree that our forefathers said would need watered from time to time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=336&v=6eoX2Ti0pGU

[marcinstl]

60 for, 38 against.
"The vote to approve TPA, also known as "fast-track," was virtually guaranteed on Tuesday, after Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) secured (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/23/senate-fast-track_n_7645348.html)the 60 votes necessary to clear a Democratic filibuster. The final approval of the legislation comes after weeks of legislative maneuvering during which Democrats nearly derailed the bill."

well, don't ask me, ask Mitch or some other southern conservative Republican.

[JohnR]

well, don't ask me, ask Mitch or some other southern conservative Republican.
That term, my friend, is now an oxymoron. Might as well say, ask a unicorn.