P380 Return to Battery Problem

[mattroach]

I am having a new problem with my P380 returning to battery;
The history for this is as follows:

1st trip to range:
Ran 250 rounds through the gun in one trip.
150 WWB
100 Remington UMC FMJ
12 Speer Gold Dot
Had 3 FTF in the first 100 rounds (2 wwb and 1 rem umc) and 1 FTRTB
Next 150 rounds were flawless and the gun was pretty nasty when I got done.

2nd trip:
1 clip of Federal Hydra Shok
1 stovepipe

At this point I was pretty happy with the gun. Wasn't gonna carry the Hydra Shoks so I didn't worry about the stovepipe.
Then my troubles began.

3rd trip yesterday;
I had 50 rds of wwb, 50 rds of Remington JHP and 1 box of Speer Gold dot.
Had no problems with the first 15-20 rounds.
Then started getting a failure to return to battery.
After 40-50 more rounds, it progressively got worse and wouldn't lock up with any of the ammo I brought . Needless to say, I was getting pretty aggravated.
At the time I thought the gun might just be getting really dirty, but I ran more rounds through it on my first trip with this only happening 1 time.
I cleaned the gun this morning and lubed the rails and contact points on the barrel up good and am still having the problem when locking the slide back and feeding a round.
With a full clip of Speer Gold Dot, it might completely lock up 2 times feeding 6 rounds in this way.
I polished the exterior of the barrel before this trip, but I would think that would help this issue instead of hurt.
I am pretty confident the recoil springs are in right and don't think the springs would be getting weak already.

I do plan on trying to polish the feed ramp and throat on the barrel and shoot the rest of the ammo I have to see if that helps.
Anyone else have this problem or have any suggestions?
Thanks

[hedgehog]

your feed ramp should have came polished. what type of cleaner/lube are you using? the winchester white box is pretty load shooting sometimes and doesn't always eject nicely.

[jocko]

outter recoil spring goes on with the open end towards the front of the slide.Give it a good cleaning and lubing per lube chart on the kahr tech section. Try again but bring along anotgher good shooter with you. If you have the issues, then hand the gun over to him and let himn try it. If he duplicates, then we can assume it is gun related and not the shooter. U must eliminate the possables first. I see nothing wrong with your ammo choice. That little gun is not ammo sensitive. You are past the break in point, the gun should function perfectly. I would not think it is recoil spring related but if it persists, give kahr a call and ask if they will send you a new recoil spring to test out. Again u are eliminating a possable. If that fails to get you going then it might need a trip back to kahr..

Polishing the feed ramp and chamber certainly won't hurt a thing, again u are eliminating a possable. I am not saying it is your grip either but eliminate that possable by being more aware of your grip and stance during this next test session.

[mattroach]

Thanks for the advice guys.
I will try everything you all said.
What is confusing me is that I had no problems like this through the first 250 rounds.
And now I cant even get the clean gun to lock up with the first round out of the magazine while dropping a locked back slide on the round.
I guess I will try the polish first,

[mattroach]

Started playing with the gun again,
With the gun empty, I can pull the slide back up to about a half inch and let it go and the gun wont lock back up. If it is pulled back much further than that, it will go back to battery. After I got to thinking about this it just didn't seem right to me, the slide could get bumped on the muzzle end and not return to battery, so I called Kahr CS.
Got ahold of Ian, and after I told him about this, he seemed to think it was a recoil spring issue.
Hope this fixes it.
Jocko,
Ive seen your other posts about your pm9 and all the rounds you have shot through it.
How long did your recoil springs last?

[jocko]

they certainly lasted alot longer than 250 rounds. I have over 1250 rounds through my P380. and have replaced the recoil spring once, just because I felt like it. the P380 should go 1500 rounds easily. Just could be though and I say could be, you just got a bad recoil spring. I want to doubt that, but eliminate the possable first.

what I would do with the recoil springs off the gun and the magazine out of the gun is to slowly pull the slide back and try to get a feel if something is catching somewhere. check the slide rails for any possable burrs. check to see that some of the polymer guide rails on the top portion of the frame is not binding on the slide itself.You might be able to feel this draggin sensation with no recoil springs in the gun.

the fact that it was OK at first should indicate a change has happened and in this case the first thing to replace would be the recoil spring, remember open end towards the front of the slide.

I always run a small line of gun grease right down the full length of the slide rails and then rack the gun about 50 times to remove any excess grease and I wipe it off and I am good to go. Alittle grease inside the barrel lug is also good. U should go to the kahr tech section and hit on the lube chart. It is simply the best for any semi, IMO

the half inch thing, is IMO quite normal. that slide needs the full velocity of the recoil springs doing their thing. It was not really made to work from a half inch pull, if u get my drift, not that some won't do it and I would bet after you get a 1000 good rounds down range, it will more than likely close from the 1/2" position, but again that is not how to properly rack the gun either.

Use the slide stop lever to load that first round for sure, don't try hand racking until you can safely use the slide stop lever and get the results you want. Then work on the hand racking. I can tell you when I got my P380, I had zero luck in hand racking. I had complained on the P380 forum about the difficulty of my hand racking this gun. perfect.

today with over 1250 round sthrough it, I can hand rack it with ease and I do feel the gun itself has just totally smoothed out and I have also gotten the hang of hand racking this little gun.

RECOIL SPRINGS ARE THE CHEAPEST THINGS TO REPLACE ON A GUN TO INSURE RELIABILITY Everything works off of proper timing of a semi auto and recoil springs pay a very very important part in that event occurring...

[Bawanna]

What he said to a "T".
I'd not waste any time polishing that feed ramp unless your bored and have nothing else to do. I don't think that's your issue. It worked and then it don't. It does as Jocko said sound like a recoil spring but I'm skeptical of that. Something is just not right. I like the working it without the spring to feel for hangups.
I'd not give up or get frustrated at this point. It'll come together, we just gotta wrap our heads around this thing and figure it out. Worse case scenario is a trip back to kahr on their dime and that while not good is not the end of the world.

[mattroach]

Yea, I am kind of skeptical of that the recoil spring too, but like you all said, its the easiest and cheapest to try first.
Ill keep you all posted.

[mattroach]

OK,
While waiting for my new recoil spring from Kahr, I have been investigating to see if I can see any thing else wrong with the gun.

The only thing I can come up with is this:
When inserting a magazine, some of the speer gold dot rounds hit the slide stop.
I have never had a problem with the slide locking back prematurely, maybe 1 time in 300 rounds.
could the rounds be hitting the slide stop as they are being chambered and 'slowing' the momentum of the slide down enough to keep them from being chambered all the way.

I thought of filing the slide stop down, but was wondering what everyone else thought.


The only other thing that has me puzzled is that sometimes when the slide stops about 1/4'' from battery, the slide has some resistance when pushing it into battery completely. I have checked where the takedown pin and the barrel meet and they seem to be okay. I am confused on that one.

Any help would be appreciated.

[Bawanna]

If your theory on the slide lock slowing things down a bit is correct the recoil spring should help that. What happens when you chamber the first round? Do you use the slide lock lever to release the slide or sling shot?

I looked back in the post an if I'm reading right it's failing to return to battery in the middle of the mag, so not just a first round misfeed or anything.

You might be on to it my taking a tad bit off that slide lock spring if the bullets are touching it, could try different ammo to confirm your theory then tweak the spring to make yours work.

[jocko]

first of all do this. Go to another brand of ammo to see if it duplicates your issues. Shoot some fmj ammo. that ammo for some reason feeds perfect in these guns. If you don't get those issues, then you can assume your findings are correct and you can adjust accordingly. Either by changing ammo defense rounds, or calling kahr and asking for a replacement slide stop lever. If they accomadate, then indeed take a file and slowly reduce the part that is interfering with the speer rounds.
My personal thoughts on this is that it would cause ftf more than slide not locking up but every gun is different..

keep records of everything yo have tried on this gun, in case it has to go back , make sure kahr cs people read your report. It willgive them some insight as to where to start looking. Don't just say it fails to lock up, but tell them wha t you have done to try to rectify it...Please keep us posted as ur issues are some that pop up now and then and we would like to know how it was cured....

[mattroach]

The FTRTB happens on the first round as well as while shooting.
I use the slide lock lever to load the first round.
The first two rounds in a mag seem to be the worst.
The 3rd and 4th seem to be the best.

[jocko]

The FTRTB happens on the first round as well as while shooting.
I use the slide lock lever to load the first round.
The first two rounds in a mag seem to be the worst.
The 3rd and 4th seem to be the best.

both magazines produce the same results???. How about giving the feed lips on the underside of the magazine a nice polish job with some 600+ grip paper wrapped aroudn a small dowel. Can't hurt a darn thing. It sure looks like it is going to have to go back to kahr for proper fitment of something. They have the ability to do things that we cannot do or shoud not have to do, such as they can just replace the slide and or barrel combination and test out. If it works back it will come. Now to me that is their quck fix to, for they don't want to take the time to maybe have to fine tune your existing slide and barrel combination .

But the bottom line is u don't care how they fix it jsut as long as THEY FIX IT...

If the recoil spring and any suggestions above do't get you going, indeed call kahr and have them pick up the gun. No use getting frustrated over it. they made it, they will fix it right.....

[mattroach]

Update:
Got my p380 back from Kahr with various parts being polished and the recoil spring and guide rod replaced. Ran 125 rounds through the gun this weekend. Had 1 stovepipe, which was probably my fault. There seems to be a noticeable difference with the new recoil spring