What IS a Gun Belt, After All?

[OldLincoln]

We tell everybody how important a good gun belt is to their carry rig and say it needs to provide good support. I thought I knew what that means, but looks like I could be wrong.

I tried carrying on my work belt = fail. I saw a good deal at Costco for a 1.5" belt that was about1/4" thick and very stiff = fail. When I bought my 5.11 covert pants from LA Police Gear I got a free 5.11 Gun Belt with each pair. So now I have 5 gun belts and they are swell, right? Perhaps not. I admit I haven't really looked at the belt in the mirror until today.

When carrying my PM9 I always thought the belt holds up well and I still haven't looked at that. However, I knew I had a problem carrying my Colt Commander. My Perry's bounced when I walked like I needed a huge gun bra. So I bought the Perry's Construction model with non-stretch straps in the front and a stretch in the back. The bounce is solved but it just doesn't feel right, and that's how the mirror glance came about.

As you can see from the pics, we have a problem Huston.
http://kahrtalk.com/members/oldlincoln-albums-1911-picture360-gunbelt01.jpg

http://kahrtalk.com/members/oldlincoln-albums-1911-picture361-gunbelt02.jpg

http://kahrtalk.com/members/oldlincoln-albums-1911-picture362-gunbelt03.jpg

Well, maybe the last one is showing off Dad's gun a bit. But anyway....

What should one expect from a gun belt? I'd love it if it were flexible in the around part (horizontal) but not in the up and down (verticle). Like forcing a 1/4" aluminum strap around my waist. As it is, laying the belt flat, I cannot bend it vertically without it rolling as it is in the first picture.

The belts are very stiff even wrapping them around me and you can't buckle them like soft belts. Should I be able to hang my 64lb 1911 on the belt and hold it out away from me without bending?

Is the problem even in the belt? Am I not wearing it properly? I tried tightening it but almost need stitches where it cuts into me when I sit down. The thing with the Perry's is to wear the belt a bit looser and let them carry the weight. But as Dr. Phil would say, it sucks so far.

Just before I posted it occurred to me that perhaps it's the holster. I am crazy about the Silent Thunder and it is secure with the single clip, but do I need something that spreads the load across 2 clips? I just looked at the Tucker Answer that's similar to crossbreeds with a wider "stance" on the body that would help.

Edited to remove a bad attitude! I'm grateful for practical advice. Looking at other pics of carry rigs I see pants with more belt loops, maybe that's part of it. Enough parts might make it right.

[Tilos]

OldLincoln:
The same deal is going on for me.
I didn't want a big honking $80-$100 leather belt to carry a little dinky gun.
I wanted an 1.5 inch wide belt and found several nylon web belts reinforced for holsters.
Some of them were up there in price but I did find an Uncle Mike's 1.5 wide reinforced web belt for around $25.
It arrives tomorrow, so I'll see how it works out.
Here's a link where I bought it, but most mail order places have it.

REINFORCED INST.BELT LRG. 38-42 - Natchez Shooters Supplies (http://www.natchezss.com/brand.cfm?contentID=productDetail&brand=UM&prodID=UM87681&prodTitle=REINFORCED) INST.BELT LRG. 38-42

"Polymer reinforcement, sandwiched between two layers of rugged nylon, allows support for even the heaviest pistols •Perfect for the range, squad room or a casual day off"
Called the Inst. Belt.
just sayin'
Tilos

[jlottmc]

I use a riggers belt.

[slowpoke]

Most of the problems you are having are the very reasons I switched to a cw40.
I used to make gun belts and can at least solve one of your problems. The buckle.
If you'll take a look at the buckle at the bottom of this web page you'll see a heavy duty buckle that is easy to buckle. I no longer make belts or sell buckles so I don't feel I'm breaking any forum rules by posting this link.
ROG Holster Heavy Duty Belt (http://rogholsters.com/tmp/XX-belt.html)
You can purchase the buckle at:
Weaver Leather | Leather Manufacturing | Leather Manufacturers (http://www.weaverleather.com/)

[mikearc]

Yep, I need a good belt (buckle) as well, will be watching this thread with interest.

[500KV]

I just purchased one of these Amish belts and, without a doubt, it's the best I've seen, and I've tried several others.
Amish Belts - Black (http://www.hanksclothing.com/amish_belts_black_buy.html)
It's 1 1/2 inches wide and 1/4 inches thick with a great buckle.
I don't think you could wear one out in 2 lifetimes.
A great bargain for ~$25-$26.
Excellent service and shipping from this outfit as well.

I would caution one to be careful about ordering the correct size. The length shown is the actual length of the belt, not the waist size. For example: If your waist size is 34" you need to order a 38" belt.
Comes in black or brown.

If, for some reason, you don't like it it will make a great vehicle tow strap.

[Bawanna]

I don't think you have a belt problem myself. I find that most people who wear suspenders do so so they don't have to wear their belt snug to hold up their pants.
The belt needs to be snug around your waist or the holster is just hangin like the ole cowboys low ride rigs. You've mentioned your lack of waist before and this is another thing usually addressed with suspenders.
Take up a couple notches on the belt and see if the up and down don't go away. Probably along with a good mount of comfort unfortunately also.
If your dad's commander (what a sweetheart) gets to heavy for you, put me first in line to pack it for ya.
The riggers belt jlott mentions might be worth a try for you as it's stiff but still flexible. Size is critical with little margin for error, if you get bigger or smaller you need a new belt. Wilderness Tactical makes some nice nylon belts.
Another thing that might help is get the suspenders with two attachment points in the back instead of one in the middle. I know the middle is more comfy but less support on the sides.

[OldLincoln]

You do have a point Bawanna. I tightened my belt to the tightest notch I can muscle together and the gun hangs better. Am I supposed to see spots when I do that? I'm sitting with it now for a few minutes and can tell my upper internals are cut off from my lower. You know how you can tie a string tight around something and it will fall off after a few days? That's what it feels like.... Opps my left foot is starting to tingle. I better let it up a notch. Letting it off that 1 notch brought me full circle.

In my search for a belt like an leather hula hoop I found the "Liger" belt, sold by Maxpedition (http://www.opticsplanet.net/maxpedition-liger-gun-belt-black-lgb150b.html). It has a lot of great reviews that say it doesn't roll or flex vertically. Example here (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=148723&highlight=liger). The best pics are here (http://www.sniperworld.com/books/gear_11.html). Ever hear of it?

I've been looking at the 4-point suspenders. I even wrote perry's asking them to make that model. They sent a nice (kissoff) reply saying they are going to forward the email to their R&D department. That's the same email I got when I asked them to make a tuckable suspender belt clip.


http://kahrtalk.com/members/oldlincoln-albums-1911-picture364-firemans-beltoutlet.jpg
So how about something like this? If I could make the front look like the back that sucker wouldn't sag.

[wyntrout]

Here's where I posted on the Dickies Perry Suspenders. They clip under the belt and hold up the belt... check them out... pix:

http://kahrtalk.com/holsters-gear/1828-dickies-perry-suspenders-ccw.html#post18579

Wynn:D

[Bawanna]

"I'm sitting with it now for a few minutes and can tell my upper internals are cut off from my lower."

Gosh, wonder if that's what happened to me. I suddenly realized I can't feel my feet, I'm not wearing a belt:eek: Whats with that?
Now that I think about it my hands are tingly too, maybe my collar is too tight.
I think we need to find a happy medium on that belt. Somewhere between tourniquet tight and where you are now.


PS- my ammo search in your behalf is still a work in progress, I thought this would be easy, but apparently no so. But the chubby lady ain't ready to sing yet either.

[OldLincoln]

Wynn; Thanks, I have a few pair already and they are holding up where they connect but the belt is sagging in between. If you look at the pics, you can see how just off the back clip the belt makes a small twist allowing the belt to sag as Bawanna put it, like an old western gun slinger.

Bawanna, I was only 1 notch short of that blood stopping tight. And hell, I'd say go necked if that's all it took for you to feel your feet again! I sure wish it were so and know you do also.

I have a search set up that looks at 7 ammo provider sites and I hit it everyday. My friend Kyle said he can't even get what he was a few weeks ago so it must not be available.

Rob at Tuckers said he would exchange my ST for an Answer with 2 belt clips to spread the load. That sounds reasonable but he also said he has never had a good belt do what this one is. He carries his 1911 in a Silent Thunder without sag and it gets good reviews on the 1911 forum. Speaking of the 1911 forum, I'll post this over there and see what they have to say.

[wyntrout]

I just read about someone making gun belts with a center third layer of kydex for rigidity...Comp-Tac Kydex Reinforced Belt. Maybe that would help. Gun belts can sure be expensive though.:eek:
Wynn

[Bawanna]

Well I can see that Old Lincolns totally unhappy and has lost faith in that 20# Commander of his dads so I'm gonna graciously offer you my address in a PM (few around here might be gunnin for me). I'll take real good care of it and if my belt sags I'll just put a little block of styrofoam between the muzzle and the seat of the chair. I can adjust for drop and height every which way but loose. Don't thank me, I do this only as a public service.
I think I'm gonna build some pretty wood handles for that thing first chance I get. Something make ya cry pretty............

[Ol'coot]

I have finally found a belt that works great with jeans or other casual wear it is Cabela's version of the riggers belt.

Last Chance Belt (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0077208904856a&type=product&cmCat=SEARCH_all&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&No=234&Ntt=belts&Ntk=Products&sort=all&Go.y=0&N=0&Nty=1&hasJS=true&_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fsearch%2Fsearch-box.jsp.form1&Go.x=0). I also have a plain black Amish made dress belt that I wear daily with my docker style pants at works that also works well as it is very stiff.

[wyntrout]

How wide is the belt... 2"??

I just checked at Comp-Tac on the Kydex reinforced belts... HOO...BOY!!:eek:

Gun Belts & Apparel - products new home - Kydex Reinforced Contour Belts (http://www.comp-tac.com/product_info.php?products_id=43)

Too rich for my blood... or budget! I ain't saying it ain't worth that, but not to me!

Wynn:)

[jlottmc]

I don't think you have a belt problem myself. I find that most people who wear suspenders do so so they don't have to wear their belt snug to hold up their pants.
The belt needs to be snug around your waist or the holster is just hangin like the ole cowboys low ride rigs. You've mentioned your lack of waist before and this is another thing usually addressed with suspenders.
Take up a couple notches on the belt and see if the up and down don't go away. Probably along with a good mount of comfort unfortunately also.
If your dad's commander (what a sweetheart) gets to heavy for you, put me first in line to pack it for ya.
The riggers belt jlott mentions might be worth a try for you as it's stiff but still flexible. Size is critical with little margin for error, if you get bigger or smaller you need a new belt. Wilderness Tactical makes some nice nylon belts.
Another thing that might help is get the suspenders with two attachment points in the back instead of one in the middle. I know the middle is more comfy but less support on the sides.


Which is another reason I love the riggers belt, get it long and it is infinitely adjustable. No notches just an aluminum slide buck that is surprisingly secure, yet quick to release when it needs to come off.

[OldLincoln]

Cost is my main hangup. I'm looking at it in the overall picture of enabling me to carry that gun. I have about $175 in holster and mags and springs. Should I spend another $100 to be able to carry it? That's tough with the PM9 functioning so well and money tight. I ask myself how often I will carry it over the PM9. Difficult decisions for right now, so I may sit on it for a couple weeks.

I did write "The BeltMan" asking their advice. I spent several hours yesterday in the 1911 forum going over the 741 threads containing gun belt. I only read those where the subject was something about gun belts in particular and of course many asked which belt.

Seems a majority prefer the Beltman over the big holster makers and told a pretty convincing argument why. He uses 2 layers of bull leather that makes it exceptionally stiff. He does offer an additional stiffener but most don't need it. I wrote him I want a hula-hoop of a belt that I can support from suspenders. I laugh because I picture the old hoop skirts that had that.

I'm back to my PM9 in the meantime. For some reason I don't have the problem with it. Oh, and Bawanna, I know you'll take care of Dad's gun real well. Should arrive in the next day or so. Be sure to let me know when it does!

Thanks all for your input. I'll let you know what the Beltman has to say.

[Bawanna]

I'm severly bitten by the gotta have another 45 bug. I've lost 2 cbobs and a Doublestar in the last week. I got another I'm watching, lucky to even find another to watch. Maybe when your dads shows up it will alleviate my addiction for awhile.
I don't need another 45, but I want another 45 so does a want justify a need? I think there's no cure. Each time I'm lucky enough to get another gun I think now I've got em all covered, I'm done. The time period from that revelation till I want another seems to be getting shorter and shorter.

If anyone sees a reasonable spelled 1200 or less Dan Wesson Cbob, let me know. I'm on the prowl.

[OldLincoln]

Back so soon???? Yeah, you know I can't let a puzzle sit - used to stay up all night trying to find just one more inventory item in "Colossal Cavern" on my Kay Pro with the 4" amber screen. Then on the PC, it was Sim City - look at it grow. Today it is discovering if my issues is a belt or what, and how in the world am I going to pay for a good gun belt?

Problem solved and for only 47 cents American. See pics below (Damn, I forgot to suck it in!):

This is my 5.11 belt (a new one!):
http://kahrtalk.com/members/oldlincoln-albums-1911-picture371-gunbelt-5-11.jpg

This is my 5.11 belt on steroids! Actually 2 of them - a 10.22! Now THAT'S a gun belt! Can YOURS do that??
http://kahrtalk.com/members/oldlincoln-albums-1911-picture370-gunbelt-5-11-2.jpg

The following are with the 10.22 belt!
http://kahrtalk.com/members/oldlincoln-albums-1911-picture366-gunbelt06a.jpg

http://kahrtalk.com/members/oldlincoln-albums-1911-picture367-gunbelt07.jpg

http://kahrtalk.com/members/oldlincoln-albums-1911-picture368-gunbelt08.jpg

I can loosen the belt and the suspenders take the weight without sag, but I like it on the same notch. Since I have 5 of these belts, if I am of the same mind in a few days I'll take 2 of them to a shoe repair guy who is pretty good and have him stitch them together.

It's 3/8" thick but he can taper the thickness on the ends and leave them un-stitched where the holster, suspenders and phone case go. I'll form and clamp them round just a tad tighter than I am round so the load is better distributed between them.

I have these as a freeby with my 5.11 pants so this costs me the price of the sewing. If the sewing works out I can carry anything and I don't think people will shout out "look at that belt".

While I don't know if this will really work in the long term, but it's worth the shot for now. I have read about belts for several months and people say they gotta be stiff. Compared to my normal pant belt my 5.11 is stiff, so what does it look like? Well, it looks like my 10.22 Belt, not my 5.11.

So, what'a you think guys? Oh, BTW, I caught Dad's gun before it left town so I owe you one Bawanna. Sorry, but just as soon as I win the lotto you can have whatever you want (as long as I approve it).

Supprise.... I just got a reply from a nice guy in the 1911 Forum. He did a great review on the Tucker Answer 7 months ago so I asked him if he still feels the same. He just replied:

"I love the answer. Its sturdy, has a small profile, and the leather lining helps keep my DW bobtail's finish nice looking (still has some wear, but much less than with a kydex holster). I used to have a silent thunder as well, but I had lots of sag issues even with a sturdy gun belt. I had to cinch up my belt really tight to avoid them. The Answer does great as far as not sagging if you have a good gun belt, even with my all steel bobtail commander."

I may be getting The Answer AND my 10.22 belt!

[Bawanna]

Course he just had to have a Bobtail. My all steel bobtail. I hate that guy.

[jlottmc]

I've heard of the Liger gun belts, but haven't seen them, and I think they run high too.

[wyntrout]

Dang! I just had a flash... take a band saw blade... cut as desired and have it sewn between two belts... or use one of those straps they bind wooden crates or big cardboard boxes with for shipping... better... no teeth! Brilliant!
I knew I should have saved some of those straps. :rolleyes:
I did buy one of those awl/heavy duty sewing thingies, since I can't afford a heavier sewing machine.
Wynn:D

[OldLincoln]

""...use one of those straps they bind wooden crates or big cardboard boxes with for shipping..."

Great idea Wynn! As long as the strap is kept from rolling it should do well. Whatever I try has to wait the mandatory 4 weeks to get my new holster. Then I have to find the right position and mark the belt. Same for my PM9 Silent Thunder holster, phone and suspenders. If I do have the belts mated, they have to leave those locations untethered to slip in the clips. I'm actually looking forward to trying this, but I will meet with the sewing guy before locking it in. Last night I was wondering if he might have a rolling press to squeeze them a bit thinner as he sews.

Another thing I discovered on my way to the stadium. If you look at the top pic you can see how the belt rolled at the suspender clip. I found that if you reverse the clip so the body is sandwiched between the belt and pants, it doesn't roll.

I checked this out nearly to the breaking point of the clip and it's true. Since the visible part of the clip will be between the belt layers I intend to reverse them. The sewing guy can stitch the clips back on too. Cool huh?

[Garland]

I ran across what I thought was a pretty decent video on gun belts with a fairly low cost option:

YouTube - sootch00's Channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/sootch00#p/search/0/tASgeGdv-Do)

[OldLincoln]

I was quite unimpressed with his commercial. If I were doing a video on gun belts I would answer the title of this thread, "What is a gun belt after all?" I would talk about what traits are required and show what they look like. For example, in my pics I held my 5.11 belt straight out and you can see it goes a little bit then breaks and goes down. My putting 2 of them together with ties and holding it out and it goes straight all the way to the end. I'd like to see that guy compare his fancy $125 belt against the $30 one he is pushing.

I've only seen a couple, but I think I like the Tactical Tim videos where he doesn't appear (to me at first look) to be selling something, just showing what's good and bad about it.

[wyntrout]

As for that "ad", the belts were much higher at the site!:eek: I didn't see any $39.95 or whatever.
Wynn

[Warhammer]

OldLincoln:
The same deal is going on for me.
I didn't want a big honking $80-$100 leather belt to carry a little dinky gun.
I wanted an 1.5 inch wide belt and found several nylon web belts reinforced for holsters.
Some of them were up there in price but I did find an Uncle Mike's 1.5 wide reinforced web belt for around $25.
It arrives tomorrow, so I'll see how it works out.
Here's a link where I bought it, but most mail order places have it.

REINFORCED INST.BELT LRG. 38-42 - Natchez Shooters Supplies (http://www.natchezss.com/brand.cfm?contentID=productDetail&brand=UM&prodID=UM87681&prodTitle=REINFORCED) INST.BELT LRG. 38-42

"Polymer reinforcement, sandwiched between two layers of rugged nylon, allows support for even the heaviest pistols •Perfect for the range, squad room or a casual day off"
Called the Inst. Belt.
just sayin'
Tilos

I just ordered the same belt from Amazon.com for $18.65. All the reviews I've read about it are very positive. I should have it on Oct 1.

[Tilos]

Warhammer:

Thanks for reading my post.

Yes, I received that belt soon after posting the info and have been wearing it ever since.
I've worn it both ways, buckle left or right, and cannot find anything negative to say except the buckle is HEAVY steel.
Just the buckle could be considered a concealed weapon:eek:

The only down side for many here will be the made in china label.

All that doubling up of 2 belts with a metal band seems a long way to go when this belt is as good as any.
I can't wait to hear about someone's expensive sewing machine hitting that metal band:D

just sayin'
Tilos

[Bawanna]

Original Instructor Belt: Tactical Gear, Tactical Equipment, Duty Belts, Slings, USA (http://www.thewilderness.com/storepinnacle/index.php?p=product&id=2309&parent=142)

This place solves the Made in China problem. I've used these and they are great belts. I believe they also make what they call a 5 stitch version which is even more stable.
These do have to be ordered to fit. I've "outgrown" mine but I still have it in hopes that I may physically downsize at some point and be able to put it back into service.
Perhaps wishful thinking.

[OldLincoln]

Some folks responded in another forum thread (http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=286580) with their positive experiences with the Comp-Tac Kydex lined gun belt (http://www.comp-tac.com/product_info.php?products_id=43). It sounds like a good belt but is $80. I asked and was told it is .365" thick, the same as my planned 10.22 belt (2 5.11's sewn together).

I was concerned about such a stiff belt being uncomfortable but they say not at all, but do recommend narrowing it down for the buckle. I intend to taper from 2 to 1 thickness at the last loop each side of zipper and may narrow it down there also.

It does come pre-curved (waist) also. Probably should store it (and mine) round instead of hanging it up straight. I'll make a hanger for belt some day to accommodate this.

[Tilos]

I gave up on leather belts a long time a go, like a leather watch band, they will absorb sweat and over a length of time...will, well, STINK:eek:

Kind of like washing the dog, only to find out it is his COLLAR that stinks.

At least I can wash a nylon belt.
As a charter member of team hang belly, I too would like a belt to be narrower in the front, but have yet to find one made of nylon webbing.

just sayin'
Tilos

[Warhammer]

I, too, understand the issues faced my members of Team Hangbelly. I have converted all of my western belts over the ranger style, and they're much more comfortable. I've been loosing weight (and inches) pretty steadily, so this may not be as big (pun intended) of an issue for me in the future.

Tilos, I'll be sure to post my opinions of the Uncle Mike's belt, too. So far, I haven't found a single bad review on it. It's pretty much a direct copy of the Wilderness Instructor Belt with CSM that sells for $50. At $30 cheaper, I'm willing to give it a try. I'm not too concerned about it's country of origin, since even a lot of "US Made" products are assembled from parts made all over the world (Harleys being a notable example). If this one works out as well as I'm expecting, I might go ahead and get a tan colored Wilderness belt as well, since the Uncle Mike's version is only available in black.

[Tilos]

Warhammer:
I think that wilderness belt has an aluminum buckle and something I may look into.
I've tried to loose weight too, but decided to try and grow a few inches taller instead.

Oh, and nice holsters in your thread.
just sayin'
Tilos

[Warhammer]

Thanks, Tilos! I was a fun project and it's kind of adictive. I think the next one will be OWB.

From what I can tell, the standard Wilderness buckle is coated carbon steel, and I've read reviews that complain about how heavy they are (really the only complaint about these belts). There is also a titanium buckle available, but that belt costs $90! Then there are their Ring Belt with aluminum rings and the Frequent Flier with Delrin rings.Apparently, the belt construction is the same, but the double rings are kinda ugly, IMO.