PM45 Trigger Reset problem

[Rob Longenecker]

First thing - the gun feeds, fires and extracts 100% reliably and has 400 plus rounds through it, however......................

This is my 4th Kahr pistol and I noticed something different while dry firing it. The trigger won't reset if I hold the trigger to the rear and then cycle the slide. I have to release the trigger and then cycle the slide to reset the trigger.

All my other Kahrs (and all my other semi-autos) reset the trigger with a little rearward slide motion while holding the trigger to the rear. There's a noticeable "click" when this happens.

I did not take it to the range after discovering this - I emailed Kahr last night and got a phone call this morning to send it in for service. Something is definitely not working right.

I had to pony up the $62 for Fedex Priority to Kahr. They'll fix it free and ship it back for free.
Let's see - 200 rounds to break it in - $80 and change. $62 to ship it back. Should I be upset?

It's just what's so - unless I make it mean something. It's just what's so.

I like the gun a lot; sometimes you have to "pay to play."

Anyone else ever have the same trigger reset issue?

[Bigcube]

I had never tried to cycle the slide without releasing the trigger first until I saw your post. I tried my PM9 and the slide will reset without releasing the trigger. I'm not sure why it would matter, you need to fully release the trigger anyway or it won't release the pin anyway.

[Rob Longenecker]

I had never tried to cycle the slide without releasing the trigger first until I saw your post. I tried my PM9 and the slide will reset without releasing the trigger. I'm not sure why it would matter, you need to fully release the trigger anyway or it won't release the pin anyway.

There is a method of shooting (notably with Glocks) that involves holding the trigger back, releasing it and firing again as soon as the trigger resets. It works well for the second shot of a double tap. It limits trigger travel and some prefer the method.

Obviously my trigger was resetting during firing or the gun would not have fired again. I just noticed, reported and complied with knowing advice to return the gun for service.

[ripley16]

I have to admit that I didn't know a Kahr trigger could be reset without a full stroke. As far as I know, your PM45 was operating as designed and had no problem. The slide must be cycled, yes, but the trigger stroke is still a full stroke...isn't it?? :confused: This as opposed to my DA/SA triggers, some of which reset after as little as 1/8" return travel (provided the slide cycles).

[lv2tinker]

Did you buy it from a local dealer? If you did, then I'd return it and ask them to replace it or return it to the factory for repair at "their" expense as a Kahr representative has said that it is obviously defective.

[Bigcube]

There is a method of shooting (notably with Glocks) that involves holding the trigger back, releasing it and firing again as soon as the trigger resets. It works well for the second shot of a double tap. It limits trigger travel and some prefer the method.

Obviously my trigger was resetting during firing or the gun would not have fired again. I just noticed, reported and complied with knowing advice to return the gun for service.
I had a G-19 before the kahr. I did notice you could short stroke the trigger and the gun would fire the next round. The Kahr the trigger must must be fully released or it won't fire. But now I do see your point for dry fire checking since your finger won't be releasing the trigger as fast as the slide cycles. Thanks for the clarification.

[Rob Longenecker]

I have to admit that I didn't know a Kahr trigger could be reset without a full stroke. As far as I know, your PM45 was operating as designed and had no problem. The slide must be cycled, yes, but the trigger stroke is still a full stroke...isn't it?? :confused: This as opposed to my DA/SA triggers, some of which reset after as little as 1/8" return travel (provided the slide cycles).

Sorry, you don't see what I was talking about. I'll have to sharpen my communication skills.

[Rob Longenecker]

OK, guys. Try this.

Make sure your gun is unloaded and clear.

Pull the trigger and hold the trigger all the way to the rear. Holding the trigger all the way to the rear, cycle the slide back and forth.

Release the trigger and you'll feel and hear the "click" as the trigger resets.

When I do it to the gun in question, the trigger remains slack, unable to fire, after that evolution.

I can reset the trigger only by NOT holding the trigger back while cycling the slide. Then it will reset as the slide is cycled.

(During live firing, the slide has completed a full cycle before you release the trigger. My gun must be resetting normally during live fire or it wouldn't go bang, but it's not doing so with hand cycling.)

The issue is handled, so we can move on.

Thanks for your input.

[500KV]

At the risk of belaboring a point; I just have to ask: How does the gun know it's being cycled by hand, as opposed to being fired?
Doesn't the same set of things happen either way?
Maybe I'm missing something.

I'm probably too inquisitive but things like this really catch my interest.
Thanks..Now I'll shut up.

[Rob Longenecker]

At the risk of belaboring a point; I just have to ask: How does the gun know it's being cycled by hand, as opposed to being fired?
Doesn't the same set of things happen either way?
Maybe I'm missing something.

I'm probably too inquisitive but things like this really catch my interest.
Thanks..Now I'll shut up.

Good question. By all rights, the gun shouldn't fire.
I don't know the answer.

[kpm9]

If I dry fire my PM45, then while holding the trigger back, rack the slide, it is harder to move the slide than on my 2 other Kahr pistols. It feels like the firing pin safety/plunger is hanging up slightly on the trigger cams.

It still functions properly, but it is rougher.

[Rob Longenecker]

Good question. By all rights, the gun shouldn't fire.
I don't know the answer.

I sent the gun to Kahr on Monday and got it back today (Friday).
The pistol works perfectly and the trigger resets now. They replaced the trigger bar and test fired the pistol.

I'm pleased with the quick turnaround.

Now it works as it should. :)

[jocko]

If I dry fire my PM45, then while holding the trigger back, rack the slide, it is harder to move the slide than on my 2 other Kahr pistols. It feels like the firing pin safety/plunger is hanging up slightly on the trigger cams.

It still functions properly, but it is rougher.

u have to let up on the trigger somewhat for it to reset itself. If it functions properly just keep shooting it but my guess is that u are not letting the gun reset itself and u must let up on the trigger for everything to reset itself properly. Whether it is harder or easier than your other kahrs also is something that again more rounds down range will work out.

I guess I have not tried to experiment with the method you stated as to me it goes against all the things the gun was designed for.

[jocko]

I sent the gun to Kahr on Monday and got it back today.
The pistol works perfectly and the trigger resets now. They replaced the trigger bar and test fired the pistol.

I'm pleased with the quick turnaround.

Now it works as it should. :)

is absolutely great turn around service. Normally they will replace the trigger bar for what ur issues were. It had to be out of specs somewhat...Glad it is working as it should. great guns IMO. crap happens but kahr's service is getting to be unbelievalbe. They told me awhile back that once a gun hits their place it is normally a 6 day maximum turn around. I had kel tecs that took 8 weeks to get back, mostly were 4 weeks but never under that.

Ihad pretty decent return service from Para also but again not that fast, but acceptable..sometimes I also think that when a gun goes back it also gets that tlc that normally a production run gun does not,... Just my 2 cents on that to..

[Rob Longenecker]

Yes, they replaced the trigger bar.

I'm very happy with all my Kahrs and the good service I received.

[kpm9]

u have to let up on the trigger somewhat for it to reset itself. If it functions properly just keep shooting it but my guess is that u are not letting the gun reset itself and u must let up on the trigger for everything to reset itself properly. Whether it is harder or easier than your other kahrs also is something that again more rounds down range will work out.

I guess I have not tried to experiment with the method you stated as to me it goes against all the things the gun was designed for.


I'm stating the difference between the PM9 and PM45. In other words, I'm doing the same thing with each pistol and the PM45 hangs slightly.

How does it do against all the things the gun was designed for? When you're firing the gun and pull the trigger, you're not going to be able to release the trigger slightly before the slide starts it's reward travel?

Makes no sense and hsa nothing to do with trigger reset.

[jocko]

u stated u are dry firing it and it is doing it, Is it doing it when you fire the gun???? If ur dry firing and then hand racking the slide, , IMO the slide is not working as fast as when firing it and it going through it normal sequence of events... I'm not trying to argue with you either, actualy trying to figure out actually what is happening..

[VetteUSA1]

I see this thread is a few monthes old but I just bought a New pm45 & after 12 rounds fired, my trigger didn't reset. I cleared the round & cycled it & it reset, so I put the clip back in & fired it 3 more times & it did it again. I got it reset fired 2 more times & it did it again.

I was at range of the place I bought it at so I cleared it & took it to the front, the guy there tried to figure it out & duplicate the problem pulling the slide back, it did it again.... so now I left it for the gunsmith to look at.

He told me if he could'nt figure it out they would refund my money or send it back to Kahr. At least I got to shoot it 17 times :eek:

[Rob Longenecker]

I see this thread is a few monthes old but I just bought a New pm45 & after 12 rounds fired, my trigger didn't reset. I cleared the round & cycled it & it reset, so I put the clip back in & fired it 3 more times & it did it again. I got it reset fired 2 more times & it did it again.

I was at range of the place I bought it at so I cleared it & took it to the front, the guy there tried to figure it out & duplicate the problem pulling the slide back, it did it again.... so now I left it for the gunsmith to look at.

He told me if he could'nt figure it out they would refund my money or send it back to Kahr. At least I got to shoot it 17 times :eek:

Should be an easy fix, either for the gunsmith or the factory.

[JustinN]

I took my P45 for the first time today, and after 25 rounds, it just didn't reset. I was in the middle of a mag, so I made the gun safe and racked the slide all the way back...about 15 times. Nothing. Guys at the range racked it, and nothing. Called Kahr and I'm sending it back to them....

[jocko]

it's sure out of time somewhere. Has to be a bad trigger bar or a complete bad slide. A a shame. Hope you will report back to us what they did to make it well...

[Rob Longenecker]

it's sure out of time somewhere. Has to be a bad trigger bar or a complete bad slide. A a shame. Hope you will report back to us what they did to make it well...

That's a post from a while back. Sent the pistol to Kahr and got it back ASAP.
Works perfectly now.

I love the pistol.

[garyb]

I did not read all the posts and I understand the problem with the 45 is different from my question. I also understand trigger reset and its value for the follow up shots. However, as I understand it, the Kahr - or at least my PM40 has such a long reset, that for all practical purposes, there is effectively no real reset. The trigger must be released all the way forward to hear the click for reset. It is not like a Glock where the trigger is released slightly to get the reset click. Kahr (PM40) have a LONNNNGGG reset just like they have a long trigger pull. Something to get used to.

I am just checking to be certain this is a fact for PM40's. I'd be interested to hear from others. Thanks.

[Bawanna]

Your exactly right in my opinion. There virtually is no reset. You gotta let it all the way out and start over. Try to short cut and it's game over. Both my K40 and my PM45 are the same. You just have to deal with it.

Come to think of it I'd love to see what Jerry Miculek could do with a Kahr. I bet he could make it sing.

[garyb]

Thanks Bawanna45cal. I'd love to hear him play the tunes off a Kahr too. It can be done.

[robmcd]

Some observations.

A Glock or M&P is fully cocked each time the slide cycles. As long as the connector is just forward of the striker block, it will reset when the striker dogleg re-engages the sear. The connectors on my Glocks and M&P's are reworked so the trigger does not need to move forward very far to release the striker block and sear to allow reset, thus allowing rapid follow-up shots.

The Kahr is "mostly" cocked by the slide. The connector activates a dual lobe cam instead of a conventional sear. The first lobe depresses the striker block, then the second lobe pushes the striker dogleg rearward until it rotates out of the way and releases the striker. An ingenius idea, but the length of travel required to accomplish it is much greater than conventional striker fired designs. I do like the fact that there is a very tactile reset, even though it requires the trigger to return forward about 90% of travel to accomplish it. It's rather like a very smooth, light, double action revolver. It becomes a muscle memory excercise which, as Jerry Miculek says, requires 1000 repetitions to accomplish.

The more I shoot my PM9, the more it grows on me. Mine is the MA compliant model with manual safety. The safety is also quite simple and effective - rotating it pushes the connector away from the cam so it can't fire.

It sounds like Kahr product support came through OK on Rob's PM45.

Nice holsters Rob. That's next on my list.

[JustinN]

Well, I got my .45 back yesterday. Fixed and, well, better than new. One week from the day I sent it until it was back in my hands (shipped it Friday and had it back Friday). They replaced the cocking cam spring. Seems all good now!

A+ for customer service.