New Reloader Education [Archive]

OldLincoln

11-21-2010, 09:24 PM

Since I'm BRAND new to reloading (equipment still in the box) I'll start off.

Getting Started:

What I have:
Thanks to Bawanna and my son, I have
1. RCBS Rockchucker press with spent primer tray
2. RCBS Powder measure.
3. A case mouth inner and outer reamer and a primer pocket cleaner tool.
4. A bullet puller.
5. A balance beam scale (RCBS 5-0-5).
6. Speer and Hornady reloading manuals.
7. A wood loading block and 2 MTM universal trays.
8. A digital caliper.
9. Set of carbide dies for .45.
10. Shell holder for .45.
11. 45 RN/SWC Seater Pak (whatever that is).

I will add more essentials before I actually get to reloading so no pressure for a while. I have to learn about this stuff before I get anything more.

My objective is to reload target ammo only and have no need to 'tune' ammo or anything. I just want an inexpensive round with one formula that works well. Nothing fancy for a target 7yds out.

First: Education
I have spent most of today reading articles, watching videos and generally being shotgunned with information. There's just too much for all of it to be helpful. So first off, I need some links to what you consider excellent sources of education someone who just today learned what the press dies are for.

Second: Work Space
I perused a thread but can't remember where that had lots of pictures of reloading setups. Some have very elaborate reloading offices with powder safes, etc.; some moderate corners of a room, and some portable setups mounted on boards they would put on top of the kitchen table.

I need some idea of what is really needed for a work space. How do you store powder and primers (we're both a bit timid about this one).

How sturdy does the press mount need to be? I have a 12" x 24" corner of my desk that I can clear off and use when needed. Is it reasonable to mount the press to a padded board (Plywood, etc.) and c-clamp that to a finished desk top? I would put a corresponding support under the desk top to spread the clamp load.

Third: Don't know what's third yet, just haven't got that far.

jeep45238

11-21-2010, 11:16 PM

I store my powder in the 8 pound jug, laying on the ground. Primers on a shelf above them (about 1500 worth).

The sturdier the mount the better, otherwise you'll be holding the press with one hand and working the handle with the other. I need to redo mine. The heavier it is, the better. It is reasonable to c clamp to a desk top as long as the desk top can handle the stress.

I do almost all of my work in a 4x3 foot area, that's components, dies, brass to be sorted, etc.

jfrey

11-22-2010, 09:44 AM

Lincoln, take your time and set the stuff up and then enjoy loading like many of us do. It may look a little confusing at first but it ain't rocket science.
Get a can of Unique or 231 powder to start with and read the manual for loads in the medium power range for the bullets you select. Load a few and shoot them. If your pistol likes the load, then continue. If there are small loading or ejection problems then adjust the load and try again. That is part of the fun. Good luck and stay with it.

Bawanna

11-22-2010, 10:05 AM

Both them guys are on the money. Doesn't take alot of room although I try to avoid clutter. Like Jeep said the solider that press is the better. Mine was half arse for years and then I beefed it up with a leg under the bench and some reinforcement. It's alot better to work with.
Unique and Winchester 231 are the 2 powders I would start with too. I've been using the 231 mostly, seems to be a little cleaner than the Unique but I've burned a ton of Unique and its good all around pistol powder.
Them reload manuals are a few years old so double checking with someone with a new manual might be advisable.
Like jfrey said, just ease into it. Right now you got enough to go thru and deprime and size all your cases. Clean em, look em over. 1st step. Need go no further till your ready to move on.

Tilos

11-22-2010, 04:22 PM

OL:
Here's the thread about benches..1500+ postings!!
Show us a picture of your reloading bench - THR (http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=218720)

Some small portable designs, but a lot of stuff to wade through.
Some very knowledgable people "over there" that will help with anything re-loading.

And like you, most start out just wanting to make a few plinking rounds.
It is another science that will quickly start eating up your time but rewards you with something you "made" yourself.
Just sayin'
Hi, My name is Tilos...and I'm a re-loader:o

Tilos

11-22-2010, 06:15 PM

OL:
With a single stage press you might want to consider hand priming with a Lee or RCBS tool.
That takes the priming operation away from the press and can be done while watching TV, etc.
I've used the Lee Auto prime tool and it cost 50% of the RCBS tool.
With the Lee auto prime you will need a set of shell holders as they are different from the shell holders for the press.
Even with the added cost of the shell holders, the LEE Auto Prime is much cheaper than the RCBS.
The newest Lee tool has a square tray for primers that now come in a square trays!

just sayin'
Tilos

OldLincoln

11-22-2010, 06:34 PM

Tilos, thanks - that's the one I was thinking of. Reviewing that again I started going through other sources.

What the heck, maybe I should just cut to the case and buy this press that can reload up to 4400 rounds per HOUR:
http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx269/OldLincoln/Misc/CamdexReloadMachine.jpg

Ain't that a hoot? You can find all kinds of stuff out there.

OldLincoln

11-22-2010, 06:44 PM

Steve-$

11-22-2010, 06:53 PM

I am in the process of making my want/wish list and will run it past the group to see if I am on the right track before purchasing anything.

Bawanna

11-22-2010, 06:57 PM

I was planning to hold off a while on additional equipment until Bawanna and I put together a plan. Then today I find that Midway has the "Frankford Arsenal Case Tumbler with Rotary-7 Media Separator Kit" (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=616153) for half price at $40. That seems like a good price as most web sites show it in the $60's. Optics Planet has it for $50 with free shipping so shipping will be considered.

What do you all think?

Other items on the list that can wait include the Lee Auto-Prime XR ($25), and Lee carbide factory crimp die ($16).

The Lee Auto Prime which I mentioned prior to the package and that Tilos wisely brought up again is a great tool and I'd put that ahead of the tumbler priority wise. The factory crimp die is a nice thing but you can get by without if you want to. I didn't send down any primer tubes because I like the Lee Auto Prime so well I'd not bother with anything else.
Far as the media separator, look in your wifes kitchen drawer, I found a gently curved spatula kind of looking thing that works great for dipping cases out of the media. Still have to dump them and pour the media back. I use a tupperward pan for that.
Look late at night and maybe the missus will never notice.

OldLincoln

11-22-2010, 07:10 PM

The Lee Auto Prime which I mentioned prior to the package and that Tilos wisely brought up again is a great tool and I'd put that ahead of the tumbler priority wise. The factory crimp die is a nice thing but you can get by without if you want to. I didn't send down any primer tubes because I like the Lee Auto Prime so well I'd not bother with anything else.
Far as the media separator, look in your wifes kitchen drawer, I found a gently curved spatula kind of looking thing that works great for dipping cases out of the media. Still have to dump them and pour the media back. I use a tupperward pan for that.
Look late at night and maybe the missus will never notice.

I can wait on it all until I get the desk thing built, but I'm wondering if the price on the tumbler is too good to pass up. The range guy told me to look at Harbor Freight for their rock tumbler which I did and found them at $99 for the small one.

I'm probably going to make the desk top mounting board then a bracket for the powder dispenser to put it at working height. Everything else can go on my desk while working. I did see in the setup pics everybody has a fire extinguisher very handy, so I need one of those.

Bawanna, you sure that "gently curved spatula kind of looking thing" isn't for dipping cat poo out of the litter box?

As for the wife not noticing, I found long ago that if I buy her a newer better one, I get the old worser one for free.

I really need some quick feedback on the tumbler kit. Even though it can wait, is the price too good to pass up or is it something that happens often?

Bawanna

11-22-2010, 07:13 PM

Go for the tumbler. don't use the cat scooper, thats just nasty.

wyntrout

11-22-2010, 07:21 PM

I would stay clear of any plastic, especially the clear plastic, tumblers. Polyethylene is okay... it gives and won't wear out too fast. There are tumblers that tumble and the vibratory/not-quite ultrasonic ones that are pretty good. You just need something that will hold up to the brass and the media. Some of those rock tumblers are not built to last... or be used often and long... or with much capacity.
I've been out of reloading too long to give you any advice on brands and prices, though.

Wynn:)

OldLincoln

11-22-2010, 08:30 PM

Well I was too late..... They must have run out, ended the sale, or had mismarked the price, because they now want $74 for it like everybody else. They have the tumbler alone for the $40 I saw for the kit before. At least it can wait now like the other stuff.

jfrey

11-22-2010, 09:13 PM

OL just bite the bullet and get the tumbler. Then go to Petsmart and get lizzard bedding for media. I got 40 pounds(I think it was) for $10.00. Now the media seperator: go to Wally World and look in the kitchen section. Get a large plastic bowl and a cheap collender(plastic). Works like a charm. Shake the collender over the bowl for most of the media and then roll the cases with your hand to get out the rest. That's all I've ever used and it works. Luckily, my wife had 2 bowls and 2 collenders so I appropriated one of each. Get a cheap bottle of car polish and put a little in the media and mix it up real good before you start. After a couple hours in the tumbler them cases will look better than new.

You're gonna get all kinds of advise on bullits but I shoot the 200 gr. Berry's plated bullets for plinking and they work well. Cost direct includes shipping. I laugh when I order bullets because I see our mail lady huffing that 27# box up to the porch. She finally figured out what was in the box after about the third one.

Keep up the good work and you're gonna be there before you know it. Keep us up on your progress.
jfrey

Bawanna

11-22-2010, 09:31 PM

The collander or the scoop work just fine. The separator takes up a lot of room for what little you use it. The tumbler alone is all you need.

OldLincoln

11-22-2010, 09:43 PM

Okay, since you all insist! :) I just found out "Your services for jury duty are no longer required" so my day tomorrow is clear. That means a trip to the hardware store to see what might make a good table top Rock Chucker base plate, etc. I'll also swing by the gun shop that sells reloading stuff and check prices - just in case.

If I order it from Midway, I'll get the primer tool and #2 shell holder to combine shipping. I suspect I'll be ordering other stuff on-line later and will consider the crimp die then.

Bawanna

11-22-2010, 09:45 PM

OldLincoln

11-22-2010, 10:16 PM

Oh, heck, I'll make it up in other areas, I need to loose weight anyway. I'd tell her it's my Christmas present, but I'm already up to Christmas 2012 and we all know the world will end by then anyway.

OldLincoln

11-22-2010, 10:58 PM

UPDATE:

Midway has the primer tool on back order and charges shipping as a new order just for that, while still charging the original shipping amount on the in stock items. This negates the advantage of ordering all together so I pulled the plug on ordering now.

Midways sale price on the tumbler alone is $40 and close to others regular pricing so I'm not risking anything.

Tilos

11-23-2010, 07:12 AM

Bawanna

11-23-2010, 12:28 PM

Tumbler here, best deal going, and it's a relabeled Berry's
Cabela's: Cabela's Case Tumbler Kit (http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=731769&categoryId=0&parentCategoryId=0&subCategoryId=0&indexId=0&productVariantId=)
It's at Cabelas if the linc doesn't work.

Here's the priming tool, it the old round tray though:

Cabela's: Lee Auto Prime With Shell Holder Set (http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=740057&categoryId=0&parentCategoryId=0&subCategoryId=0&indexId=0&productVariantId=1375977&quantity=1&itemGUID)

Why do I know these things??
I'm 3000 miles from my "stuff" and gearing up here, for loading and shooting.
just sayin'
Tilos

I use the old round tray and never seen the new square one yet but it works perfect. Set a few primers with it over the years, that's for sure. And it comes with a shell holder, pretty cool. Dont know how many times I've went to load something different and forgot the shellholder for either the press or the primer tool. Can't remember everything I guess. Would be nice once in a while though.

OldLincoln

11-23-2010, 07:03 PM

I hadn't planned on it. It just sorta happened. Coulda been anybody but it was me today. I went into the most expensive gun shop in town just to see what they carried, not to buy, then I walk out with a Lyman Vibrator.

How could I let this happen? Well, I had gotten down to the last shelf scrunched way over to see the price of another vibrator, and there it was. All shoved to the back of the shelf with dust piled high, no box, no sticker, just the machine. I picked it up and said uh oh, this is broken, as parts rattled around inside. With closer inspection I could tell someone had taken it apart and didn't get it back together right.

I rattled the loose parts out and figured where they went and my engineer brain kicked in. I can fix this! So without knocking too much dust off I carried it up to the counter as told the guy look what I found. It's broken pretty bad and there's no sticker, but I'll give you $10 for it. He said he didn't remember having it and looked it up in inventory. It had been sitting there since 2005 so he said he'd take $10.

Now it's sorta fixed. I need to add some super glue and probably replace a screw, but it seems to work well. I need to drill and install a patch plate or 2 but it will run just fine. Here's pics:

http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx269/OldLincoln/Misc/Vibrator1.jpg

http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx269/OldLincoln/Misc/Vibrator3.jpg

http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx269/OldLincoln/Misc/Vibrator2.jpg

Now you didn't really think I got one of those big ones for $10 did you? I have been scratching my head over units that hold 500 shells. That's a bit over kill for me so I think this is fine as a starter unit. If the day comes that I 'need' a bigtger one I won't have spent too much already. Cheapest I've seen was $40 + $11 shipping so I saved $40 on this one.

I'll continue fixing the unit before getting media. I want it sturdy before running it for a long period of time so it won't fall apart on me.

jfrey

11-23-2010, 08:44 PM

That's interesting, I've never seen one of those. For $10.00 you got a good deal if it works. If it holds 50 to 100 .45 cases that's all you need most of the time. Good find.

OldLincoln

11-23-2010, 09:03 PM

I'm hoping that somebody has seen one and will give me the info and opinions. It looks fragile and may be as manufactured, but I know how to make weak products solid and I'll use it like I stole it (right Jocko?).

Surprising, the motor is really small and looks exactly like a bathroom vent motor with an offset weight on the shaft.

Speaking of CASE TUMBLERS, today's reading taught me:

1. many have had good results from tossing in a "cut into 1 inch strips USED drier sheet" AFTER the unit has run a while (mixing up the polish if you added any). It supposedly picks up media dust making the taking stuff out cleaner.

2. Put a timer on your tumbler cord so you can set it and forget it. Now I like that one because I'll set mine in the garage and forget it whether I want to or not!

3. If you buy the expensive media, the brown stuff makes brass shiny, but takes a lot longer than the green stuff. Today at the expensive store, I found the Lyman's media in a 6lb big mouth container for $18. Too pricey for this guy.

4. One guy says he washes his corncob over and over in a big tub with detergent. Says when it dries it's bigger than when new so you gain media. I suppose at $3/lb I might look into that.

jfrey

11-24-2010, 08:46 AM

Check out the lizard bedding at the pet store. Same stuff and a lot cheaper. I never have washed mine, don't know why you would. If it gets dirty, throw it on the lawn and get new media. I use a new dryer sheet cut up and it does work.

Btw: HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO EVERYONE
jfrey

Bawanna

11-24-2010, 10:48 AM

I gotta try that dryer sheet trick, never heard of that.

Tilos

11-24-2010, 04:57 PM

...And if you prefer walnut media instead of corn cob;

Kaytee Walnut Bird Litter - Litter - Bird - PetSmart (http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753590)

That's a 7 pound bag for $9.99

I've bought the corn cob stuff at WalleyWorld, that should be cheap enough for you, OL.

just sayin

OldLincoln

11-24-2010, 05:58 PM

Somebody else ID's the tumbler as a Lyman Tubby Tumbler circa 1992. That and the fact it was supposed to have a clear plastic cover was all I got so far. I'll make a cover of sorts - how hard can that be.

PS: I forgot he said the screws tend to vibrate loose. Good thing I got Locktite!

OldLincoln

11-24-2010, 06:01 PM

Tilos.... Thanks, I'll be checking out the bird litter as soon as I get this contraption finished.

OldLincoln

11-24-2010, 11:50 PM

Let the record show, as of 10:30 PM, 11/24/2010 OL is an official resizer and de-primer!!!! I may not be a reloader yet but and tickled to get this far.

After looking at ridiculously priced pieces pf plywood, I mounted the Rockchucker on the end of a 2 X 8 with inset Garage Bolts from the underside and snugged down on the topside. Set on the limited desk space and securred with 2 4" C Clamps. There is very little strain on the mount - much to my surprise. Nice thing about just a board is I can simply carry it out to the garage when not in use.

I looked but no directions on adjusting the die other than don't bend the pin, so I did a logical installation. I backed out the priner pin all the way, adjusted the die itself until it just clears the brass base, then adjusted the primer pin down until it just popped the primers. Took a couple times as one brass (nickle plated?) took a deeper shot.

SO I now have 29 brass in Bawanna's wooden shell board resized and missing primers.

I may make a quick trip to Wally in the AM to get some walnut shell. The Tubby is put together and runs fine. I may just put a little masking tape over it until I make the lid. I wish I had thought faster and put a dab of gun grease in the motor sleeves when I had it apart. That poor little motor takes quite a licking.

Bawanna

11-25-2010, 12:14 AM

Sounds like your cooking down there. That deprimer die is also a sizer die so you want to lower the handle so the ram is all the way up, then screw the die down until it touches the shell holder. You can do this without a case. Lower the ram and screw the die down just a bit more, 1/8 of a turn or so. When you size a case you'll feel it cam over, long as it's touch your good to go. You did perfect on the deprimer, just enough to punch em out. If you break a pin they are easily replaced.
Make sure you clean out the primer pockets if you tumble them. I usually tumble first thing so I'm not feeding dirt and debri into my dies, also the media doesn't get into the primer pocket. I use a screw driver or that little primer pocket tool I sent you to do a quick clean of the pocket.

The expander die, next in the scenario I put a nickel on top of the shell holder and screw the die down to touch the nickel. Then adjust the expander plug down to just bell the case enough to start a bullet. The less you bell the longer the brass will last. Generally have to bell lead bullets a bit more than jacketed.

earle8888

11-25-2010, 11:47 AM

Bawanna

11-25-2010, 12:22 PM

You have been given a lot of good advice. I support a separate priming tool, not the press, I use the RCBS one. I have found that mounting the powder measure and of course the scales on a separate location, not subject to being shook by the press or priming tool. Just go slow, recheck yourself a lot, learn good habits, and enjoy!!!

Excellent point earle, the powder measure ain't so sensitive to vibration and it might even help to keep the powder settled down, but the scale needs to go someplace off the work surface. I use an old bar stool that I can just put conveniently close by. This is even more the case if you go to a digital scale. Somebody walking by or if I bump that stool will tilt the scale and have to rezero. If I dont notice it, of course I will get bad readings and think my measure is off so I go to readjust only to learn later I was wasting my time.
There's a million little things, hope more of the guys and gals here keep reminding us of them. Sometimes we get so accustomed to stuff that we don't even think about what we do, so it's hard to remember to tell a new guy learning all this stuff.
Still is ain't rocket science and once you get a grasp on what your actually doing its as you said just check yourself and make sure your getting it all done.

earle8888

11-25-2010, 04:12 PM

FYI, Have acquired a Hollywod Press. It is a vertical action. Thus does not need to overhang the table/bench top. Can make a good deal 4 some one wanting a use arockchucker. Hollywood mounted to block can be c-clamped to top. Mine is a very old one but is great!!!! turret top with 10 7/8 holes. another rop for 50BMG's. I don't have difficulties with bullet seating 378 Wthby. Has about 12" travel.
Also, The old black powder measure, Lyman #55 I think, is great for small weight loads, such as Bullseye, 231, etc. Pick em up at shows for $25 or so, have one set for 3.5 grains Bullseye, 45ACP, 230 Lead Target, 2.7 gr for 38spl hbwc, for S&W 52-2, etc.

Tilos

11-25-2010, 05:14 PM

OL:
Just to clarify corn cob at Walley's
Walnut for sure at Petsmart...possible at Walley's.
A CAP full of Nu-Finish liquid car wax (orange bottle) added to the media makes real shiney brass, $9 at Walley's.

Don't ever add all this stuff up, hey you CAN wax the car with it too.
Remember, you're doing this to save money on ammo:lie: (that's wifespeak reason for reloading).

Just sayin'
Tilos

OK BW, he's on, set the hook and real him in.

jfrey

11-25-2010, 08:10 PM

Bawanna

11-25-2010, 09:54 PM

This thread is getting so interesting I think Bawanna should make it a "sticky:. I find myself checking it a couple times a day to see what new has happened. OL is going to be stuffin bullits before you know it. Next thing you know he'll turn into a brass scrounger like the rest of us.

Keep it up Ol you're doin good so far.

Never thought of it, not sure I have the power of the sticky or not. That might be a upper level management task. If I do have the power I dont know how to work my magic wand to make it happen so it would be the same result.
I do agree this is gonna be a good one.

OldLincoln

11-25-2010, 09:56 PM

Orange wax, got it. I don't know for sure which is better, corn or walnut. Read that corn is shinier but walnut faster. Anybody have opinions on this?

I planned to go to Wallys today to avoid the Friday thing, but didn't get moving about in time. Some days I'm a springer other days I don't have a pulse before 10AM.

About scrounging for brass.... I've been pretty careful to only pick up my own so far. Is there much risk in picking up something you don't know? I don't want to bring something really bad home you know! I've seen some pictures of bad stuff and sure don't want to get that. Wife already told me that if I get killed doing this stuff that will end our marriage for sure.

On a serious note, IF I asked and the range guy said okay just this time to get started, do you just grab all you can get of everything or pick through it. I'm thinking they don't want others seeing someone picking it up so grab it all quickly. I know they sell it so moderation is key. But I won't go shoot a couple hundred rounds just to have some to reload.

Also, what's with only finding half of what you shoot? For some reason I don't know, my 45 sends brass in all directions, even hitting me now and then. I've found it to my right, left and in front of me to the right. At 14 cents each for new brass, reloading can get expensive. I found 29 of about 60 rounds even when I shot the last stall on the right and it bounces off the wall.

What about making a brass catcher. I've already engineered one but don't want to be laughed out of the place. One design is a pair of those spring loaded shower curtain rods that I would put above my head front and back with a net boxing in the right half of the stall down to the shelf. The brass would not bounce much hitting the soft net and feed into a gym bag that would store the net & brass. Wouldn't take much brass to pay for such a contraption.

Oh the web we weave when we first decide to reload. Only a few rounds my dear. But why then do you need ALL that stuff, my love? It's going to pay for itself in time, sweetness. Then don't buy it all at once, lover boy. I can't reload even one shell without it all, passion princess. So you do HAVE to get it all, right now, father of my children? Yes, I want, no have, to have it all, but I'll make it up to you, giggle. Right now? Pant, yes... right NOW!! And so ends another saga of "How the Boys reload!"

Bawanna

11-25-2010, 10:06 PM

Your getting the hang of this stuff passion prince.

I pick up everything in my area and surrounding area if the neighbor don't mind. Some guys will see me picking it up and bring me their brass too if they don't reload. Darn nice of em. I sort it out at home. I get frustrated too, I shoot 50 I want 50 cases, I always got that with revolvers, never with an auto. Sometimes I come out ahead, sometimes not. Our ranges let us pickup up our brass, no problem.

I just inspect the cartridges when I sort them and then I look at em again out of the tumbler. This is gonna be a pain but I try to keep the same brand of cases together so everything is consistant. Check the case mouth for splits, and the cases for buldges etc. Should be ok.

I'm learning here too, I'm gonna add a little wax to my media after I run a cut up dryer sheet. Wife said she don't use a dryer sheets with a clothes line so guess a freakin dryer is on the list. (just yanking your chain, we got a dryer, I think?)

OldLincoln

11-25-2010, 10:13 PM

One of the guys said a new dryer sheet made the brass a bit messy to work with, that's why he preferred a used one. I know when I load the dryer I don't like the stuff on my fingers after tossing one in, and that stuff is gone when I take them out.

I'll have that chat with my range guy. He's been a help and like you guys wants to get me hooked. I suspect he'll be sneaking me out to his car and try to sell me brass out of his trunk someday. You know, give me some to get me started then charge when I can't stop.

Bawanna

11-25-2010, 10:22 PM

I had a range boy (think thats what you called em) they throw the birds back before voice activated throwers and picked up hulls and stuff. I shot every week end sometimes both days and nearly every weekend he'd bring me a couple grocery sacks full of Peters Blue magic hulls. Everybody wanted the AA's but I found the Peters loaded exactly the same and worked. I still gotta lot of hulls, I gotta knock the dust off that press and shoot some more of that, haven't done that since BC. (before chair)

earle8888

11-25-2010, 10:25 PM

OldLincoln

11-25-2010, 10:31 PM

Bawanna

11-25-2010, 10:32 PM

My 2.5 cents-- I use a cap of BRASSO in my tumbler/vibrator, its the big blue one. Have nut shells. Heard about the used dryer sheets used to clean the media, I'll hav 2 give it a try. U guys me thinking, I always decap then clean, and I always have to cleanout media from primer flash hole. UMMM

I clean first. Don't introduce stuff into your die and I clean the primer pockets after depriming. That is before I went progressive. If I don't get it figured out pretty soon I may go back to my Rockchucker. I know it's me, I just gotta get it dialed in. It's a great press, just smarter than me.

OldLincoln

11-25-2010, 10:40 PM

Bawanna

11-25-2010, 10:52 PM

Yeah Earle, other forums have come up with a variety of stuff to add. I may have an old can of Brasso around to try after I get so nut shells. Do they come out really shiny using nut shells? Ever try corn? I may have to clean 10 at a time to try different things.

Hey, Mr B, speaking of the chair, did you have any luck getting your van fixed?

Not so far. I'm gonna try it again tomorrow since it's suppose to be a bit warmer, and see if the hydraulic fluid is up if I can find where it is. If not I'll see if the repair place has anyone around and make the 1 1/2 hr drive to leave it down there.
Wife even mentioned new van last night, I hate the thought of payments again (other than CC payments for Kahrs and bullets) but I guess it's a walk or make payments scenario.
I'm sure they will get it, just at the point where maybe it's time to move on.
I'd really like a 4x4 accessible truck. I'm a pickup kind of guy in a cub scout moms van.

Bawanna

11-25-2010, 10:57 PM

I intended to clean first, but as soon as I fitted the RCBS to the mount I just had to do one. Well, to adjust the die I needed to do another, then that one wasn't quite right, but after 6 or 7 things just went so well that I had to finish all 29.

These brass were only shot once and the inside didn't look bad. I am certain I'll clean and inspect as my first step. Hmmm, me thinks I need one of those lighted magnifiers for my desk top. In my case I really do as I have a nice halogen light and magnifying glass now and use it a lot. They make finer print much finer than in the past.

The tumbling won't do alot inside the case. You just need to make sure the primer hole isn't plugged with media or debri. I use an Opti visor, the deal that goes on your head with a head band. You can get different magnification. I use it for lots of stuff, checkering, working on guns, doing my fishing lure night job. The bad thing about the desk top is you have to move what you want to look at to it. The head band looks where you look.
You've got the bug buddy, just had to pull the handle a few times. That's a good thing.

jfrey

11-25-2010, 11:27 PM

Bawanna, OL is hooked and with only 29 cases. Wait until he actually loads 'em and shoots 'em. When he finds those empty cases on the ground and realizes he has to load 'em again....... You know where it goes from there.
Welcome OL to our little club. You're gonna enjoy it.

OldLincoln

11-25-2010, 11:34 PM

The tumbling won't do alot inside the case. You just need to make sure the primer hole isn't plugged with media or debri. I use an Opti visor, the deal that goes on your head with a head band. You can get different magnification. I use it for lots of stuff, checkering, working on guns, doing my fishing lure night job. The bad thing about the desk top is you have to move what you want to look at to it. The head band looks where you look.
You've got the bug buddy, just had to pull the handle a few times. That's a good thing.
Does the visor work well over glasses? What strength do you use?

Naw, don't got no bug! I can quit anytime. Bacon, bacon, I smell bacon, where's the bacon, gotta have bacon! I've polished the guns, then carved model grips, now pushed out a few primers. Something tells me I better not have a drink! Maybe I have that addictive personality I saw on TV.

Bawanna

11-25-2010, 11:53 PM

Does the visor work well over glasses? What strength do you use?

Naw, don't got no bug! I can quit anytime. Bacon, bacon, I smell bacon, where's the bacon, gotta have bacon! I've polished the guns, then carved model grips, now pushed out a few primers. Something tells me I better not have a drink! Maybe I have that addictive personality I saw on TV.

The visor works great over glasses. I think I have the 3x or maybe 3.5. I just wear reading glasses that are like 1.5 or 1.75. I use both when I wanna really see stuff.

You can buy different lenses also if you find you need more or less magnification.

OldLincoln

11-26-2010, 12:36 AM

You guys are bad, just really bad!

Our Thanksgiving dinner was early, so I had to munch an hour or so ago, and went for the few remaining nuts we buy at Costco. As I was munching it hit me that the clear plastic very solid square sided container with the very large tight fitting lid would make an excellent brass storage container. I've now spent the last half hour carefully peeling off the labels and washing it out.

See how you influence a young innocent man like me. Next you'll have me riding Harley's and hanging out with other men my age with long gray pony tails and wearing dirty leather jackets with patches all over them. Heck if I could grow a beard you might get me to doing that too.

Bad, just really bad, you are!

jeep45238

11-26-2010, 01:34 AM

Do it - I dare ya :D

(yes, that's me, fresh from getting off of work with my "I don't give a %^&* beard." Rifle Qualification badge (Marksman) and Signal service pin are my Grandfather's from WW2 when he was 43, I earned the patch)

Tilos

11-26-2010, 05:49 AM

OL:
You have that wifespeak down!!
I've reduced my dialog to: Yes Dear, I know Dear, I'm sorry Dear.

Yes, Brasso's good, use it until it's gone............
But the wax makes sizing easier and the brass won't tarnish from finger prints.
I know, kind of anal.

just sayin'
Tilos

Bawanna

11-26-2010, 04:12 PM

I use the Folgers plastic coffee can. The lids don't screw on but snap on and off. I go thru way too much of the java. I've seen the little mini cans too that would be nice for alot of things but those wouldn't last 3 days for me.

I checked my optivisor and I have a 3x lense and an opti loop which acts like a jewelers loop, you have to get really close to use it. Great for plucking slivers and tiny little stuff.
I wear it over my reading glasses. You really do see alot more with the magnification and good light.

I just finished pulling the rest of a box of 50 reloads that were not working. Didn't find any other powder misses or double charges, all looked ok. but I'm starting over very slowly and methodically with the progressive. I'm gonna get this.

OldLincoln

11-26-2010, 04:33 PM

My little tumbler buddy just finished putting a shine on the 26 casings I have. Cute little thing, takes about a pound of corn and a single squeeze of Brasso and runs just like the big boys do. Nice and quiet and doesn't shake itself like I pictured but does shake the media rolling it over and over. I suppose if I started with real dirty brass it would take longer, but I just shot these and only once.

I had a bunch of the Folgers plastic tubs, but used them over time to much out sprinkler repair holes, etc. The handle thing is good for that. I don't like not seeing what's in them, though. Now I'm looking at my 26 shiny cases through the clear plastic jar. Wife wanted them for handing out nuts & bolts at Christmas, but we'll share - 1 for her 1 for me (only she starts out with 8 in the garage).

I'm glad you are giving your progressive another shot. There's thousands of folks that use and love them and you are just as good as they are. I looked at a mfg video showing how they work and they do seem like a good thing for bulk processing.

Bawanna

11-26-2010, 09:05 PM

I'm far from giving up. The machine is just smarter than I am. I just now went and reset all the dies. I just used it like a single stage at each die and made sure everything was right. I think I might not have had the size/deprime die quite down close enough to the shell holder, and I lowered the factory crimp die down quite a bit too.
I'm seating the bullets a tad deeper just to be safe but I don't think that was the issue.
I double charged a couple cases just to see what that looks like and I should easily be able to tell as it hits bottom out of the powder die if it's double charged. Not as easy to see if there was no charge but once I'm running them thru that shouldn't happen unless I let the hopper run dry. I'm pretty careful about checking the primer feed and powder. They make a powder cop die that has a little flag that goes up when you lower the dies, if it don't go up you know you missed one but you have to then use a powder thru flaring die or give up the factory crimp die, I shall ponder that one.

The powder measure seemed to be set right and is throwing consistant so maybe thats smoothing out a bit and gonna work fine.
I'm gonna load 15 or 20 more kind of slow and triple check and then let her run for the rest of a box, go try em and see if it all works.

I know it's me, I know I can do this.

Bawanna

11-27-2010, 01:34 PM

Well boys and girls, here's the latest in my attempts to get right with my progressive and making my free Hornady 185gr XTP's run thru my guns.

As stated earlier I loaded just one case thru the whole system and made about 15. I checked every powder charge, I measured OAL (overall length) on each and every one. I put each one in my Wilson chamber gauge, very meticulous thru out the whole process.

The Hornady reloading manual states OAL should be 1.230. I sensed the length was an issue so made them 1.220.

So I think to myself I hand cycle some of these thru the nearest gun which as usual was my PM45 on my ankle. Hand cycling is a little challenging for me, polished slide, slightly oily hands but it didn't seem right. So I took the gun apart, wanted to look inside anyhow and just dropped the rounds into the chamber, I thought we're good! Thought I'll just check even further and pushed the back of the case as hard as I could with my thumb. STUCK! WTF.
Couldn't pull it out with my fingers, had to poke a dowel down the barrel. SO I grab some of the carry Gold Dots which run fine, shove hard as I can, tip the barrel up and they fall out. Measured the Gold Dot's OAL, measured 1.200. Hmmm. So I seat my bullets a little deeper until they can be pushed hard and still fall out. Ended up very close at 1.205.
Moral of this story in my small mind is sometimes you have to remember the loading manual isn't the bible. Also think outside the box or on your own when theres an issue.
I'm totally convinced that these will run now and that the press and myself were not factors in this on going saga. I still take responsibility for the double charge ( a PM45 can handle 13.3 grains of Win 231, its exciting and highly not recommended, no harm came to the gun or the derelict during this test) and the no charge but attribute those to setting up and just not getting the cases back in the right spot as I moved on. Using my last method I don't see that happening again either.
So its a happy day in bawannaville and I can't wait to build some more and go try em.

jeep45238

11-27-2010, 02:50 PM

Always use the gun's barrel as a case gauge, never a manufactured 'gauge' :)

Bawanna, if you've got any issues with the Hornady LNL AP let me know - that's my press of choice.

Tilos

11-27-2010, 02:54 PM

Mr.B:
Sounds like you are getting real close to cranking out ammo.

I would return that case gage if it's new, or put it out of reach on a shelf somewhere.
I never owned one and always use the barrel, after all you're not going to shoot them out of the case gage.:rolleyes:

try this with every barrel you plan to shoot this combo:

With the barrel removed, drop a bullet in the barrel, followed by an as fired case (not resized, not belled).
The case will slide over the bullet and stop when it gets to the step in the chamber.

Carefully remove the bullet and case as an assembly, and measure the OAL, while finger pinching the bullet/case junction to limit any movement.

That OAL measurement represents the MAXimum as the bullet was touching the rifling, and something shorter (-.020") will chamber but needs to be checked for mag function also.
Try it, and good luck.

just sayin'
Tilos

Bawanna

11-27-2010, 03:02 PM

Jeep, the press is awesome, its a super high quality machine. I was all set to go Dillon which is good stuff and well supported also but I believe the LNL is just a solid piece of equipment. I just need to dial it in which I find I did in fine fashion. Just didn't listen to myself. I knew what the issue was but rather than think for myself I wanted to follow the recipe which in this case didn't work.

Ditto Tilos. Your absolutely correct. In fact I've quite often used the barrel as the gauge and I did this time also. I just dropped the loaded cartridge in and turned it over and it fell out. Seemed good. When I forced it in a bit futher the bullet of course hit the rifling and it was game over. Even an old dog can learn a new trick now and then.
The case cage is pretty and shiney and I've had it forever so I won't toss it but maybe I'll hang it someplace just to look at.

Indeed you are also correct in that I'm close to pumping them out again. I need to order some of the FMJ's I was gonna get and never did. Wrote the place down on my desk at work and can't remember it now but I'll get it next week and hopefully get em headed my way before the holiday shipping nightmare begins if it isn't already too late.

Thanks for the help guys. I'm calling this a success.

jeep45238

11-27-2010, 03:03 PM

What Tilos said - also keep in mind that if you run one piece at a time to dial it in, when you start running progressive, OAL will grow by approximately .015"

Hornady has a great drop in unit for the bullet seater die that's a micrometer, so you can measure your OAL, determine the change needed, and the next round will be exactly where you wanted it.

Make sure to keep your seater die clean, and preferably lightly lubricated (I use graphite powder), otherwise your OAL's won't be all that consistant.

When I run slow, deliberate, and meticulous, for match ammo, I can usually keep 100 rounds within +/-.001" varience OAL.

IF THE BULLET STICKS WHEN YOU PUT THUMB PRESSURE ON IT, SHORTEN YOUR OAL. The cartirdge is resting on the rifling when it's being chambered, and will eventually cause some feeding/jamming issues. I had this happen after about my 7,000th .45ACP for the first time at TDI Ohio int he dark house, did a tap rack, got no bang, went out to the light and saw that the bullet was stuck on the rifling, and kept the gun from going into battery. Saved my arse, but if I had seated about .020 shorter, I never would have had an issue.

Bawanna

11-27-2010, 03:10 PM

jeep45238

11-27-2010, 03:14 PM

Bawanna

11-27-2010, 03:21 PM

Has nothing to do with tightening the dies. If you're fully cycling the handle, then your'e fully cycling the handle - you're not going to be able to put enough force through that linkage to force it past the stopping point without bending the handle :) Keep in mind you're essentially running a Dillon 650 for a little less money ;)

You go from running 1 piece of brass to running 5 pieces of brass, all through dies, at the same time. It's just the nature of progressives, and you'll have that be it on a Dillon, Hornady, or Lee.

I guess I'm still confused. If I run the handle all the way down and all the way up (to seat primers) each die is set to the correct place to bell the mouth, seat the bullet criimp etc. What difference is there if I run one case at a time thru the series of if I have the bases loaded. If I get the handle all the way down and all the way up, nothing should change.
It seems you are correct, I'm just trying to grasp why that is so if you follow the flow of my river.

Tilos

11-27-2010, 08:34 PM

Mr.B:

I believe the sizing die takes the most force and can slightly skew the shell plate and ram when sizing.

You set the seating die without a case being sized at the same time.
I think when you go progressive, now you are sizing AND seating and the different pressure can slightly skew the shell plate and change the OAL.

Huh:eek:

just sayin'
Tilos

Bawanna

11-27-2010, 09:09 PM

Maybe so, maybe so. I also thought now that if any of the dies were set slightly too low it would only allow the press stroke to go as far as that die. I don't think I have that issue but it could happen.
The only dies I have touching and then just barely are the sizer/deprimer and the factory crimp die.
I'm hoping to run some tomorrow and I'll see what the seating length does.

OldLincoln

11-27-2010, 10:03 PM

If that's what happens, loading one round would set it shorter than multiples. As someone who doesn't know anything yet, I have to mutter bad design. I get the notion of punching 4 cases vs 1 = more pressure on the die plate and the ram case. BUT, surely the engineers know that and could have designed around it.

Bawanna

11-28-2010, 12:28 AM

I think we're only talking 1000's of an inch here. This press and the Dillons and others are super scoocum. Heavy duty all the way. I'm still swallowing pride and taking the blame for this and I still firmly believe I got a handle on it now and things will go smooth.

I still gotta get the darn van down south and of course now it started snowing again so might not happen again tomorrow. Should have done it today but regardless I won't be test shooting tomorrow I don't think.

Patience weedhopper, all good things in good time. I say open the door I need to practice a little flashlight work anyhow.

jeep45238

11-28-2010, 03:41 AM

Trust me - even if you have two dies 180* apart set to touch the shell plate with no brass, and dial in everything with one piece at a time, then go to progressive, it will still grow about .015".

Just accept it, and move on with life :)

Tilos

11-28-2010, 05:03 AM

I'm with Jeep...accept it.

OL:
As an engineer, you know nothing is perfectly rigid.

When the ram is up, it is the furthest from it's support(press body), that has some clearance (.001"+/-).
I believe, now, with the uneven pressure from the dies, the top of the ram can move slightly, in any direction.

I never adjust dies to touch the shell plate, it's used in directions because it's simple to understand but really pertains to single stage presses.
Commonly, when a variation is experienced, loaders crank the dies down even further.
Touching the shell plate on a progressive just adds unecessary stress to the machine.
The thickness of paper is close enough.

This is a great discussion, but my head is starting to hurt, I'm going for a toot on the scoot when the sun comes up.

just sayin'
Tilos

Bawanna

11-28-2010, 11:50 AM

I'm with ya in thought. I'm not touching but very close and felt the same way, when your ramming 4 dies at once ya don't want to bind things up. I'll run it some this afternoon and see how it does. I think we're good now.

OldLincoln

11-28-2010, 04:52 PM

Oh gosh, I'm gonna be a BAAAAD Boy! I decided to go ahead and order from Midway, then held back thinking I'd save a couple bucks if I add bullets to the list now. So I'm looking but don't know what I'm looking for. It's strictly for target shooting at an indoor range that does allow lead but does NOT allow steel (they check them all with a magnet).

Jfrey says 200 gr. Berry's plated bullets, but I don't see them at Midway. Is Rainier a good equivalent?

I'm trying to save on the overall cost. Is there a place other than Midway with cheaper price and shipping combined?

PS: Too late! I'm getting 200 Rainier LeadSafe Bullets 45 Caliber (451 Diameter) 200 Grain Plated Round Nose for $30. I was reading and others said the brand is good. I can go for better next time.

Bawanna

11-28-2010, 06:56 PM

You did just fine. I've been using Rainier for the last 3000 or so. I'm out and just playing with my free XTP 185's that I got with the press.

There is another place someone here recommended, Dietrich I know has bought them but for the life of me I can't remember the name of the place. They make their own, seems like mostly FMJ but real jackets not plated.
I think you have to order 1000 minimum and they were very reasonable, like 112 bucks per 1000 and the price goes down even more with each additional 1000. I have it written down on my desk I'll get it tomorrow if the Glaciers don't take out my hill.

I know many use and prefer lead bullets but I have no interest in melting my own and just really am not a fan of lead. I do use some in my 45 Colts but I'm switching to jackets there too since most of the ranges around here have banned the lead. They do also check for steel as well which isn't an issue for me anyhow.

It's actually a little warmer and the snow from last night is all gone again so looks like no more snow days for me, at least not tomorrow.

Bawanna

11-28-2010, 07:13 PM

OK, mail me a Brownie button, I remembered. It's Precision Delta. They have 230 gr FMJ for 119 per 1000. You have to order 2000 at a time, theres another discount if you order 6000.

I'm sorry I can't remember which pal here recommended this place but you know who you are.

I'm gonna sweet talk the missus and see if she'll let me get some.

I'm gonna do some pondering and see if maybe we can create a hub where we could order like 6000 and then break it up and send smaller quantites to smaller users like Old LIncoln and Steve$. Probably lots of others.
With repackaging and mail it might not be cost effective.

I'll see what they come like when I order some. I suspect one big huge box full of beautiful bullets.

jfrey

11-28-2010, 08:17 PM

We all have our favorites, and I'm not trying to push mine. Just that I used Rainier first before I found Berry's and got Berry's factory direct a little cheaper. You can get 100, 1000, or 10,000 from Berry's and anything over $50.00 is free shipping. The 200 gr. plated bullets work well for my plinking habit and run around $120.00 or so/1000. The 185's are a dollar or so cheaper. Precision, Montana Gold and a few others make good bullets, it just depends on what configuration you want.
There is a good article in the latest issue of Reloading Magazine on plated bullets and loading for the 9mm. Just thought it might be helpful.

Bawanna, sorry I can't help you with the LNL, I went to the blue side. I read good things about them and hear the customer service is good too. I understand what you said about the difference in OAL. The plate on the SDB sort of floats on a bolt and spring loaded ball assembly. Loading one round will definately change things opposed to a plate full all at the same time. Measure a round with the press full and adjust accordingly.

Bawanna

11-28-2010, 08:33 PM

Sounds like Berry's might be just as good a deal. All I want is practice bullets. I've been using Rainier Plated Hollow Points thinking that in a pinch they could be used for carry although I'm a firm believer in factory fodder for carry.
I'm going with just FMJ round nose now. The Precision Delta is actually copper jacketed and I've heard good things about them too. Now I'm confused again but till I get approval I can "research".

I almost went Blue myself, was ready to go and did some research and just felt the LNL was more me I guess. I like that it advances in half steps instead of full steps. It's plenty scookum for sure. I broke the drive hub very quickly and they sent me a new on and a few other things I wanted free and fast. Also said not to hesitate if I needed anything else so the service is apparently there.

I just now finished loading 50 more and did just what you said, filled the stations and made full strokes and adjusted the seater. All seems well. I mostly was just following the book instead of thinking for myself. Gotta think outside the box or the book sometimes.

Appreciate the help guys. Now I need a short range session before I kick it into full production.

OldLincoln

11-28-2010, 08:56 PM

I had looked for Berry's but didn't get to their site. The pricing is exactly the same for Rainier & Berry's .15 ea. I doubt I got free shipping tho.

Checking out Precision Delta was a kick and I spent a lot of time listening to their music. Anyway, they win the cheap ammo prize at .12 ea and free shipping. So, let's see, I could have saved $6 plus shipping! The big thing is I could have waited given the free shipping.

Wanted to ask about the locking ring wrench for presses. Do you use one?

PS: what do you guys do for ammo boxes for completed rounds?

jeep45238

11-28-2010, 09:01 PM

I use the Hornady rings for dies. I also use Hornady Dies, but will be moving to RCBS X dies when I start reloading rifles again. I'll still use Hornady rings and the corrosponding wrenches.

I use old ammo boxes I dig out of the trash at the range.

Bawanna

11-28-2010, 09:37 PM

I just use Andy Gumps (waterpump pliers) and a crescent wrench. I've acquired alot of the plastic ammo boxes either free or cheap over the years. I prefer the ones where the lid comes all the way off so the lid ain't tormenting you when your trying to grab bullets. Pluse the plastic hinge doesn't wear out ever.
I think MTM makes some, a few others. Midway has lots of choices.
I do what Jeep does too, if I'm short I tell the guys when they go to the range to bring me boxes with the tray rather than toss them. That works well too.
I should start saving the Winchester SXT boxes although we don't go thru many for duty carry. Then when I put my reloads in there and go to range people will think I'm well off.

OldLincoln

11-28-2010, 09:50 PM

Ah HA! The ones with the removable lid. I presume the lids that lift straight up and are deep so they stay on when you want them to. I saw them at Midway today for $3.61 and since I was buying, almost ordered a couple.

http://media.midwayusa.com/ProductImages/Medium/418/418784.jpg

Bawanna

11-28-2010, 10:29 PM

You just want to make sure you get 45ACP and not 44/45. The 45ACP's will drop down in too far and it's a pain to get them back out.

I don't see them near as often and have had to use the plastic hinge type.

Sometimes you wanna put a rubber band around em too if they are riding loose in your range bag. They stay on pretty good though.

Gotta think a little larger though, like 10, not two. Then you can reload every other range session instead of every one.

I just went out (must have had my Geritol this morning) and loaded another 50. I believe we're producing useable and quality ammunition now.
Followed all the suggestions earlier, even cleaned and lightly lubed the seater die. Seems to be staying consistant over all length and the powder charge is running consistant also. Was driving me buggy for awhile.
Another successful day. I was totally beside myself, I lost my Moisin Nagant rifle, it's rough and not much to look at but I couldn't find it. Finally my son and me mounted an all out search and found I'd put it in a different case.
Pop, pop, fizz, fizz, oh what a relief that was, I gotta tell ya.

Guess I'll sign up for a dementia test soon.

Tilos

11-29-2010, 06:36 AM

This thread goes on forever.
Briefly,
Slip Top-yes
Label on the bottom, stored and carried "upside down"
Never an oops that way

just sayin'
Tilos

jfrey

11-29-2010, 09:59 AM

Ammo boxes?????? I use 30 cal. ammo cans. One for 9mm, one for .45 ACP and one for .45LC. Put my .22 ammo in 2# coffee cans. Boxes take up too much time and space. The over flow for the cans is put in quart freezer bags, 300 rounds each and stacked under the bench.

Glad the length thing worked out for you Bawanna. Sometimes the directions don't tell you everything.

earle8888

11-29-2010, 10:14 AM

Yep like the "slip top" boxes. the other kind have the top break-off and the its a pain, rven with a rubber band.
PS have used cotton balls to make a 45LC suitable for 45ACP

OldLincoln

11-29-2010, 01:15 PM

Sometimes I feel like I'm sitting at the feet of the masters! Store slip top upside down, cotton balls to raise the 45ACP. Just occurred to me Jeff, do you ever grab the box and the bottom comes off the top?

OldLincoln

12-01-2010, 03:51 PM

Just an FYI on brass. I asked the range master about collecting brass and he said I can get my own but no other, not even to make up for the ones I don't find. Kind of ticked me off (just a little).

Now I have a formula for coloring brass that's not supposed to be harmful (to brass). Get these colors: Tiffany Green; Verde; Green; Hardware Green (close to John Deere Green); Red; Blue; Blue Black; Black; and Brown. I figure my JD Green casings will stick out enough to claim. Also, may not be so sellable. May be hard to find in grass but I don't shoot on grass.

I did shoot the last lane with a wall to my right again. This time I REALLY squeegeed the brass out there leaving a lot of room for mine. The first round hit the wall just right and flew out front and lost. For the rest, I found if I get far to the right and shoot a little cross lane the angle is right and the casings drop in my area.

I'm still considering a net to catch them. Saw one that looks like a large fishing net stuck into a weighted bottom thing with a brace attached. But they want too much for that, so I'll make one that's better and cheaper.

Just another small adventure. My press mount board is painted JD Green as it is the closest I could get to the old Rockchucker green. Few more coats and it's ready to go.

Bawanna

12-01-2010, 03:58 PM

I haven't seen any in awhile but they used to make a small little net deal that you held in place with your strong hand with a bar or rod that went down the right side grip. Wasn't attached to the gun.
It was like a fish tank net looking thing and if just covered the area of the ejection port. I never tried one but often thought about it.
I guess the only downfall is I don't want to get into a stressfull defense situation and find myself looking around for my fish net to catch my case. Kind of against the practice for the real world.

Bawanna

12-01-2010, 04:02 PM

Amazon.com: Pistol Brass Catcher: Sports & Outdoors (http://www.amazon.com/Graco-Models-Pistol-Brass-Catcher/dp/B002SBBCJC)

Found one so guess they must still be out there. I would think it would be pretty simple to make. A little coat hangar wire, maybe some silk stockings, don't even need the line in the back.

If anyone ask tell em your netting for Angels.

OldLincoln

12-01-2010, 04:40 PM

This one's more of what I have in mind:

http://home.comcast.net/%7Emusicglobalnetwork/IMG_1260.JPG

Bawanna

12-01-2010, 04:52 PM

If santa claus brings me that Dillon Aero that I been wanting I'm gonna get me one just like that. That will hold a lot of brass. I'd probably just bring extra nets and use em to haul the brass home and store till into the tumbler it goes.

Course if he brings the Aero I hope he brings that chest full of large denomination bills so I can feed the thing on a regular basis. Seems like the right thing to do.

OldLincoln

12-01-2010, 05:26 PM

Had to look that one up cause I thought it was a new reloading press. It would be fun to shoot, even if just once. Might get on target in a couple seconds or only a case or two of ammo. But since it's not likely to be under the tree, does that mean you don't really like the idea of the net?

I think your situation is different tho, you said that you get your own plus others give you theirs. After what my range guy said, I didn't even ask another 45 shooter there if I could have his brass. I know they sell brass so I can't fault them for it. If they let me take away brass they pretty much have to let everyone and there goes the revenue. But I'll bet the employees get theirs! Heck, I even looked in the target can for 45 boxes and didn't find any. Lots of 9mm but no 45.

What I'll do is play with what I have. I'll work on the net and try to dye a few casings for fun - IF I can find the chemicals: Iron (ferric) Nitrate (Fe(III)(No.3)3), and Sodium Thiosulfate. Betcha Lowes doesn't carry that!

Bawanna

12-01-2010, 05:41 PM

The rules are pretty much the same here as there. I dont buy bullets and reload to give them the brass. They all end up in a mess on the floor. I sweep a large area around me and the adjoining lanes and any 45 and most other stuff goes into my bag. They have never questioned me. If you see another guy shooting 45 and he says you can have his brass then it's his to give and not the ranges option.
When they tell me I can't pick up brass I'll find someplace else to shoot, it's getting harder and harder but still doable.

I love your colored brass plan. That would be sweet if it's not too much work getting it done. Take the guess work out of whats yours and what ain't.

My only criticism on the your net is it's cumbersome and takes setup and our range is pretty tight, not alot of room behind the shooting stations nor between them. It will undoubtedly work and work well. I just pack so much stuff now it would mean another trip to the car.

OldLincoln

12-01-2010, 06:10 PM

I just simplified my net plan. We have 2 hula hoops about 28" diameter. I can tie wrap that at the bottom and put something light at the top to separate them a bit. Set it on the shelf, lean one to the wall on the right and the other leans toward me. Tie on a a laundry net from Wally and I have me a redneck brass net. Total cost about $3.

Since they fold together for carry it should be easy. I picked up a Harbor Freight tool bag a couple weeks ago for $19 that look a lot like the Midway bag and holds quite a bit. It's 18" long, 9" wide and 12" tall and has lots of pockets, the bottom is strong and rubber on outside, lockable, waterproof, really a good deal.

http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx269/OldLincoln/Misc/P1000869.jpg

http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx269/OldLincoln/Misc/P1000870.jpg

http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx269/OldLincoln/Misc/P1000871.jpg

http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx269/OldLincoln/Misc/P1000872.jpg

http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx269/OldLincoln/Misc/P1000873.jpg

earle8888

12-01-2010, 06:45 PM

Speaking of colors........Us hand loaders had agreed to the different colore of "nail polish" each would use at the primer after loading. simple to sort out whose is whose.

OldLincoln

12-01-2010, 09:21 PM

After checking on chemicals I chickened out and bought a $3 Red Dykem marking pen. I'll try different markings, including the factory stamping on the head. I'll run it through the tumbler to see how it holds up. It's supposed to be permanent but sounds like more of a paint than a true stain. I can always do chemicals later.

Tilos

12-01-2010, 10:11 PM

OL:
Nice bag, I like it, and it doesn't scream gun bag.
Black gun bags suck, it's like looking into a cave when you try to find something.

If you color/paint the undercut at the rim, it most likely will survive tumbling a couple of times.
I just use a marker held on the bench edge and spin the case against it.

I know I'm going to spell this wrong anyways...a sane fish net has very small mesh suitable for a brass catcher, and in most fising dept. in the china-mart stores for $10.
just sayin'
Tilos

Soooooooooo, how did those handloads shoot??
just askin'
Tilos

earle8888

12-02-2010, 11:53 AM

Great! Yep the nail polish thing is done after each reloading. Also used it in stripes of different colors to designate different loadings, Got to write the coding down though, after some time U forget!!!!

OldLincoln

12-02-2010, 12:43 PM

Tilos, those reloads are still in the process. I'm cautious about storing powder and primer and thinking I need to build a storage box before I get them. I have a closet shelf that will work well and I'm fussin over what/how to do.

I know my insurance company would want an approved box, but even then probably have a clause buried in their pages of fine print that I can't store powder and explosives in the house. I intend to only have 1 small can of powder and small quantities of primers but it is what it is.

This article: Smokeless Powder & Primer Storage (http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/60) is the most comprehensive I've seen to date. It was published in 2005 and come across as knowledgeable.

According to it I can store up to 20lbs in the original containers just sitting on a shelf, separate from primers. I tend to overbuild things so still want a box-on-the-shelf storage thing. I'll have the lid just sit on top with room above to vent but not to slip anything out of the box.

I thought I'd find all kinds of approved boxes for sale but Google turned up nary a one. I have learned a lot in a short amount of time however and when out today will look stuff over ant my friendly Lowes.

Bawanna

12-02-2010, 01:00 PM

An old ammo can works just fine for primers and if your only gonna have one can of powder it would work for that too.

I keep primers in a wood cabinet. I have a metal like foot locker that I keep powder in. I keep a couple cans on a shelf above my reloading bench.

I probably have 15 or 20 partial cans of different powders. I have an unopened 8# keg of shotgun powder on a high shelf in my closet.

Just a little bit of caution goes a long ways. It's not like grenades with lose pins tossed all over the place. Really.

Tilos

12-02-2010, 02:31 PM

OL:
Modern powders are vary safe, when you get some put a little in a metal ashtray, take it outside and light it off.
It will just fizzle and burn, no flash, no explossion, just a slow fizzle, very little smoke, until it is consumed.
I think an can of hairspray is a bigger danger.
YMMV
Now, black powder, is a different animal for sure!

And +1 on the ammo cans, get a tall one for powder.

just sayin'
Tilos

Bawanna

12-02-2010, 02:50 PM

Agreed. I'm far more fearful of a can of WD40, that stuff burns like a flame thrower (dont ask how I know this).

Smokeless powder has to be compressed and ignited to explode. You can pour a line down the sidewalk and light it and like Tilos says, it'll just fizzle and burn a little like a sparkler depending on the powder.

Black powder as he also mentioned is a totally different animal (wow, just noticed he used the same term, different animal, I say that alot). and to be treated with respect. Non sparking tools, drop tubes for reloading cartridges, I keep most of that in the detached garage.

Triple7 and Pyrodex are a little safer perhaps but I treat them just the same. I incidently rarely use them either. I like the real stuff although I haven't shot any for way too long.

Put the Tums away, nothing to worry about with a couple cans of powder in the house.

Long as we're learning reloading another good lesson is never ever put powder in another container. Keep it in the original can. If it gets low and you think you'll save space putting it in a baby food jar, just toss it and get a new can. Too easy to forget what it is, get mixed up. I had a guy give me a metal coffee can of 4895 powder. It's labeled inside on paper and outside but I'll most likely never use it, had it for years, should blow something up with it. Oops, I mean dispose of it in a safe and environmentally safe way.

OldLincoln

12-03-2010, 11:54 AM

My homework tells me everything you say is true. My insurance company may strongly disagree so I'm building a concrete lined box that even they would have to say demonstrates my taking adequate precaution. The box will be built into my office closet on one side and primers the other side about 6' away. It's a simple yet effective design with a blow-out top.

The powder box will be about 12"x12"x11" based on the assumption that 1lb canisters are less than 12" tall. Am I right?

Bawanna

12-03-2010, 12:20 PM

Yup your right. I'd say they average around 7 or 8" high, some a little higher but none 12" in the 1 lb size. Some are much shorter, kind of varies.

The Winchester 231 is one of the shorter cans.
Unique and 2400 are probably some of the tallest but still not 12".

OldLincoln

12-03-2010, 01:37 PM

Doing the math, I think I should get a little over 800rds per lb. So 1 lb should be a good starter for me.

I ordered the Lee XL primer tool and the crimping die from Midway this AM (finally in stock).

When the paint dries on my mount board and the box is built I should be ready to proceed. In the meantime need to read some more of the books.

OldLincoln

12-04-2010, 12:58 PM

Yesterday I received an "RCBS Advanced Powder Measure Stand" (looks nice), Lee hand primer case holder, RCBS Die Locking Ring wrench, and 200 Rainier leadsafe bullets. I ordered the Lee XL hand primer tool and the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die, and Dykem Red marking Pen.

The plan is to finish the mounting board (problems!), build the powder and the primer boxes, mount the powder measure stand on the board all before the new stuff arrives the end of next week, AND read more of the reloading books. Once that is done, I can buy primers and powder locally and I'm ready to go.

I am one of those who just do not have the genetic makup to smear paint on anything and have it turn out right. How hard can it be to spray paint from an aerosol can I bought from Lowes? If there's a way to screw it up I can find it and I think maybe I did. The first coat went on ok but didn't cover well, so I dried it using my heat gun carefully to not burn it. It dried quickly so I added the second coat and dried it. The paint wasn't covering like I thought it should so I repeated the above 6 times before stopping for the day.

Yesterday the paint was sticky in places so I let it dry all day hanging in my warm office. Today it's still tacky so I'm going to give it another day. I thought I would be done with this simple paint the board thing 2 days ago. Will it ever totally dry smooth and shiny? I want it smooth and shiny so I can get any powder grains to spill.

I guess today is a good day to read the manuals. I have to laugh because I hadn't intended to move this fast anyway. I thought it would take several months to get the equipment but Bawanna donated the press, powder measure, deburr tools books and other stuff accompanied by lots of encouragement to which you all added greatly. Then my son donates carbide dies and lots of other stuff, so I didn't want to let everybody down - so it's all your fault! Really, once I mounted the press to the board and ran some casings through de-prime/sizing I had to finish the job.

Anyway that's where I am for now.

OldLincoln

12-09-2010, 05:59 PM

This may be more of a blog than forum right now. Anyway, I learned something about painting a couple days ago. Seems you have to let paint dry on it's own before adding more. I put the heat gun on it thinking 2400* ought to dry it in a couple minutes, but all it did was dry the surface sealing in the moisture. The only fix for the board was to take the paint off and start over. So I spent $4 and bought a new board.

I got the rest of my stuff today, the bright red Dykem paint to try, my Lee Auto-Prime XR hand primer and the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die. The board will be ready to drill in a couple days and I will give pics when done.

The paint came in a hazardous materials package and I thought it would not come off easily, but it does. I may be trying the chemical stain route after I get going with this stuff. With only 1 case painted a narrow ring of red in the slop to the head it stands out surprisingly well in a bucket of plain brass. This proves the concept, but unless I'm missing something, if it sticks well, fingernail polish would do the same for less.

OldLincoln

12-11-2010, 10:36 PM

Today I discovered crushed walnut shells and Nu-Finish Polish. I had no idea the walnut shells were crushed so fine, about the size of course ground coffee. I also had decided no more Brasso when my garage smelled like overdue cat litter. So I got Nu-Finish. I put a pint of walnut and a cap of polish in my little tumbler with 30 9mm casings and ran it for 3 hours. The brass looks better than new and the walnut is fine enough to even clean inside the casings - not shiny but clean. So, one more lesson learned.

My new mounting board is ready to drill tomorrow. Instead of painting it, it's covered by vinyl topped aluminum laminated to it. Very nice, it wipes clean with a cloth and can even be washed if needed. My new neighbor has a sign company and had scrap to do it and insisted. I'm taking him to the range and teach him to shoot my PM9 in return. After living here for 35 years he is the first neighbor that has taken an initiative to get to know me. Been friendly with all of them but not friends.

I had a mental block about "the box" then noticed a box our milk comes in from Costco. Lights flashed and bells rang so that immediately follows the board. Much simpler design and I get to return stuff to Lowes which is always a good thing.

Had dinner with son and family tonight and he wants me to include .40 for him once I get my 45 and 9mm going. I think I could learn to like this stuff!

So now I need to know if Winchester 231 or Unique will do 9mm, .40 & .45. I really only want one powder if it will do it. Then primers. I only think I know that primers come in small and large, period. Comparing my 9mm to .45, the .45 is larger than the 9mm. So am I right that I need large primers for .45? May sound like a dumb question, but it's a serious subject and I don't want to learn by trying. What's that old saying... any pilot can land an airplane once!

Bawanna

12-12-2010, 12:15 AM

You got it, the 45 is large primers and the 40 and 9 are small. I've been using alot of Speer Lawman brass 45 which actually takes the small primer, took me a bit to figure that one out, I thought I'd have to ream pockets which wouldn't be worth the effort.

Some primers like CCI have small and large and large and small magnum just to muddy the issues. Winchester says standard or magnum so it don't matter.

Without looking I think Win 231 will work for all those but have to check the book. Unique or 2400 I think will do all also but many here have been using the 231. I use it almost exclusively anymore but I'm only loading 45 for awhile.

Your sounding more and more like a reloader everyday. I think your getting very close.

I'm gonna change out my tumbler media and try the Nu finish polish also. I've just been running it long enough to clean not really make it pretty, but pretty is good and I like shiney stuff.

Tilos

12-12-2010, 06:23 AM

It's good to hear Nu-Finish worked out for you and the cases will size easier "waxed".
Proof that someone actually reads what I post.
Shiney is good, easier to see on the floor/ground.

Unique has been the go to pistol powder for the last century, and is advertised now as "new cleaner burning with less smoke".
Prior to bulk FMJ bullets, most shot lead and never knew Unique smoked and was dirty as that was masked by the bullet lube.
W231 is the newer powder of choice as it meters better, does not smoke, and the gun stays cleaner.
And HP-38 and W231 are identical, made by the same company, as stated on their wesite.

Loading is one of a very few hobbies were you spend hours painstakingly making something you can't wait to blow up!

earle8888

12-12-2010, 09:30 AM

Tilos; I like your last statement!!!!!
OldLincoln, Suggest U read your manuals, write down your pick for each round and second choice. Then compare-- one powder may jump out at you. Also suggest U keep records of what, how many, and loading data including date.
PS enjoy!!!!

OldLincoln

12-12-2010, 07:00 PM

Tilos, Yes, thank you for suggesting Nu-Finish - it doesn't even smell at all that I can tell and puts a shine on them.

I "almost" finished my board today (pic). I need to go to town and get different size bolts tomorrow for the powder stand. Today was mainly get the leaves in before it rains. They become a mess if soaked.

http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx269/OldLincoln/NewReloadingBoard.jpg

MikeyKahr

12-12-2010, 09:01 PM

Nice setup you got going on there, OldLincoln, thanks for sharing the pic. You can even fax while reloading if necessary! As someone who knows very little about reloading, but will most likely get hooked one of these days/years, it's been interesting reading your progression. And yes, the problems of living in California - getting the leaves in before it rains. Man, the problems you have! :rain: And here I am wondering how I'm going to carve my way out of the garage tomorrow after being buried many times over in the white stuff!! :cool:

Bawanna

12-12-2010, 09:14 PM

Thats a real nice powder measure stand, never seen one like that. Mine is similar in layout but different shaped. Makes it real nice to get it up a little so it's convenient to use.

Looking good.

OldLincoln

12-12-2010, 09:29 PM

I know Mikey, I don't complain about rain as we need the water desperately. Sometimes I wish Obama would take the unemployed and stimulus money and put in an East/West canal from one coast to the other. If anybody asks about my reloading shop I can tell them it's about 2 square feet in size.

Bawanna, it is the "advanced" stand made to be able to fill the whole tray at one time. It was the same price as the original so what the heck. It's a nice powder measure on it also. I got it from a friend! Thank you!

I am SO tickled at how well the walnut shell and Nu-Finish clean brass. Just look at this pic - totally untouched. I just took them out of the tubby and this is how they look. See the shine inside as well as outside. Too cool.

http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx269/OldLincoln/Misc/P1000910.jpg

Bawanna

12-12-2010, 11:09 PM

That looks great. I think I'm gonna follow suit and put new stuff in my tumbler too. It's been in there for years and I think it's lost it's mo jo. Probably a little Nu Finish added might help but I think I'll start fresh.

I gotta remember to send a tilos a thank you card for sharing that idea. Definitely new to me and you've proven it seems to work really good.

OldLincoln

12-12-2010, 11:11 PM

Yes it really does. I bought a 25lb bag of walnut for $11.50 from the most expensive place in town. Of course that should last me about 5 years. I'm working on another post asking questions.....

OldLincoln

12-12-2010, 11:17 PM

On to the next step. I finished depriming and started the setup of the expander die. Per instructions, I set the die to just meet the case holder. I then messed with the expander adjustment forever. After nudging it down 100 times I made a leap of faith and ruined 1 case but git the idea of what it does and the general area of setting the expander.

Since I have bullets already, I fiddled until the bullet sets in the case by 1/16". Before I do any more, it this correct????

Also, I got Rainier 200gn FMJ .451 which the charts ignore. They show 200gn semi-wadcutter .452 and 230gn FMJ .451. Guide me here as I don't know what the overall length should be.

The powder looks ok if I go 5.3 on Win 231. The Speer and Hornady books don't agree but this looks safe, at least for a few test loads. Wondering if you normally would 2 or 3 loads the try at once, noting how they shoot. Range time is free but it's a long drive.

Grin.... the one I screwed up is really funny looking now with an hourglass shape and the bullet almost disappears. Me thinks I won't proceed with that one!

Tilos

12-13-2010, 05:13 AM

Resize that funky looking case, edit your post, and no one will know.

Here's another reliable source for W231 load data:
http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

Nice brass, portable bench, good find/price on the walnut media too.

Bawanna

12-13-2010, 09:34 AM

One good reason to have a couple reloading books and a newer one would be beneficial but you got us so not urgent.
You'll never see loads for like Rainier or Precision Delta so you gotta go with whatever is closest.
You were comparing wadcutters versus jacketed. Your Rainiers are plated or closer to jacketed so don't compare lead to that.
You gotta keep lead under around 1000 FPS or you'll lead the barrel.
I know from my loading that 5.3 of 231 will work. I think I'm doing 5.6 or 5.7 so your very safe.

That case that you over belled may or may not feed into your sizing die. If it does, follow tilos, if not I'd write that one off.
I bell just enough so the bullet will stand on it's own, no more than I have to.

Replay13

12-14-2010, 12:53 AM

Since I have bullets already, I fiddled until the bullet sets in the case by 1/16". Before I do any more, it this correct????

Nice setup, looks like your ready to make some good ammo! I would like to make one small suggestion... only expand your cases just enough to get the bullet to start in, and only taper crimp the case enough to just take the bell out.

I have found that I can reload most all bullets without expanding(belling) the case mouth... then I can also skip the taper crimping using a single stage press for reloading. I do this because the case will grip the bullet tighter using this method, and that means less chance for bullet setback.

OK, I would like to explain why now! lol... and I will suggest that you try a simple experment for yourself and you will see for yourself. Just load a two or three dummy rounds (just a case and bullet) each way for testing. 1. Belling the case mouth a lot, then use a lot of taper crimp.
2. Just barley belling the case mouth, then only taper crimping just enough to take the bell out.
3. Then try some without belling and without crimping.
Ok, then hard cycle the dummy rounds through your pistol from the magazine by using your slide release. Cycle them several times till you get a lot of bullet setback. Measure every round after every cycle and keep notes to compare with.
Also you can try different brands of brass and find that differnent brands of brass will hold the bullet with better bullet tension.

Ok, some will say that most all ways will hold a bullet good enough for one cycle and that is enough. But if nothing else it will make you aware that you should keep a close watch on your carry ammo, when you keep loading the same round without firing it. Also I would like to say bullet pressures can rise fast with bullet setback. I'll include a link to some bullet setback and pressure with the .40
CALIBERS -- Why the 180gr Bullet is a Bad Choice for .40 S&W (http://greent.com/40Page/ammo/40/180gr.htm)

Ok, I'm not trying to give a new reloader nightmares, I sure you will do fine! I just wanted to bring up the subject of not over belling and crimping your brass. Some really light belling and crimping just enough to take the bell out is ok too, your simple tests will show you the differences.

James (Replay13)

Tilos

12-14-2010, 08:03 AM

Replay13

12-14-2010, 12:48 PM

Replay13:
OK, this may be a subject for a stand alone thread, but my retention test for auto ammo is usually a push on the edge of the bench.

Most cases have a burr on the inner edge that will shave lead if not belled, or plating in OL's case, if not removed.
The bell limits any burr/bullet contact while seating the bullet.

I believe bullet retention and bullet set back relates more to ammo in the magazine than the chambering of it.
Without a lot of explanation, remaining revolver ammo oal "grows" from recoil and auto ammo "shrinks".
I also do this:
Fill a mag, shoot all but the last 2 rounds, remove the mag, clear the gun, and check the round still in the mag for setback.
For a revolver, load 6 shoot 5 and check the 6th for growth.

I don't load carry ammo and pay the premium price for the extra testing that's done to it, to insure it goes bang.
I have pushed on bullets of premium ammo, in my loading press, and it takes a lot of force to set the bullet back.
I know that's kiss testing and not scientific, but it satisfied me.

just sayin'
Tilos

Hello Tilos,

Yes, bullet setback in the magazine from hard kicking rounds adds to the problem if bullet retention isn't good. With hard kicking revolvers the problem is easily solved by a heavy roll crimp. But as I'm sure that you know we can't use a roll crimp with semi-autos as they headspace on the case mouth.

I havn't found that pushing a bullet into the edge of the bench a good test for bullet retention, but if it works for you thats fine. I have found that bullets that didnt' move by pushing on them would still set back some by a hard cycling pistol. I did a lot of testing on a really light bullet with a .40 that I didn't feel had good bullet retention because of the short bearing surface, then expermented with other bullets and cases to see how they compaired. I also have measured the last few rounds in the magazine, and that is a good idea I'm glad that you mentioned it.

I lightly deburr all my cases the first time I reload them to remove burs. I don't find any bullet shaving with either copper jacketed bullets or the plated bullets the way I reload them ( I use a lot of Berry plated bullets ). Also worth mention is that you can cause bullet shaving by seating and crimping in the same step, mostly with over crimping. The bullet is still going down into the case as the die is squeezing the case mouth in. You can avoid this by backing out your seating/crimping die and seating all your bullets, then backing out your seating steam and crimping as a separate stage. Also over crimping will cause bullet deformation. If crimped to much this can leave a shaved ring on the bullet in front of the case mouth that will add to the case length and make the headspace too long.

Everything I say here can be done here by anyone to see for themselves is all that I'm saying. Pulling the bullet and looking at it will show you any shaving or deformation.

Most everyone uses factory ammo for their self defense rounds. I'm not a lawyer so I can't say if its really true that they will use the specially loaded killer bullets on you or not but I wouldn't put anything past a lawyer! It might even be a big trick from the bullet manufactures to get us to buy way over priced bullets! LOL. Anyways thats a personal decision and probably a good one on your part.

Replay13

getsome

12-22-2010, 05:16 PM

OldLincoln it looks like you are well on your way with the reloading adventure and I know it seems confusing at first but after doing it a while that little light bulb will come on over your head and you will wonder why it seemed so hard at first...Here is my 2 cents worth of ideas that did and didn't work when I first started....First read several different books and compare the load data to get the recepie that works best for your pistol...I like the KISS principle and use only one powder for .38 .357 .44 special/magnum .40 S&W .45 long colt and .45 ACP and that is Universal Clays which is very close to Unique and it works fine for all my loads and meters well...I haven't found much if any difference in primers so I just bought 1000 Winchester large and small pistol and they work just fine...I clean my brass before depriming because I got tired of having to poke corn cobb out of the flash hole and I don't bother to clean the primer pocket before priming but if you want to thats fine I just dont think it matters...To mark my brass I use a red sharpie to color the base and THEN prime...One mistake I made was to use some red model paint over the new primer thinking it would seal it up but it killed most of the primers in that box so I had to pull a bunch of bullets out and do over...You can use your deprimer die to remove a bad primer but if you happen to seat a primer upside down (I have) DOOOH!!! just throw it away and don't be afraid to throw out any brass you might think is suspect to be safe...one other note on brass is I find the nickel plated brass much more difficult to work with and don't even bother picking those up, not sure why and others may disagree but thats how I roll... When at the range I pick up my brass and they dont mind but your net idea would be nice...I have thought of using some sort of netting and thumb tack it over the booth door to keep from having to look far and wide to recover brass...My CW40 tends to throw brass all over the place so a net would sure be nice...I always look in the trash can for boxes and I like the white styrofoam cases and I use these for my loading blocks....I like to do 100 shells at a time and do each stage sizing, belling and priming each one at a time so I don't have to change dies until I get ready to load powder then I concentrate on doing one box of 50...after charging all 50 and looking very close to check tor a double charge I go on to seating 50 bullets (try not to over bell the brass but give it enough so that the bullet sits square on the case and then seat it)....I use a factory round with the same bullet to gauge the OAL using my calipers until I get mine the same as factory and no problems with chambering....I also like to seat bullets and crimp in different operations and it seems to make the finished shells more consistant...SO LOAD ON BROTHER, Take your time and check each step carefully and have fun...Remember it's not a race to see how many rounds you can load in the shortest amount of time, it's about quality and a safe finished product...:cool:

OldLincoln

01-05-2011, 06:05 PM

Today I received my order of 1000 45ACP casings. Silly me, I thought that meant I'd actually receive 1000 45ACP casings, after all that's what it says on the invoice. Well perhaps 959 is pretty close in this business.

But that's not why the post - I'll follow up with the vendor. over 20 are silver in color, and I need to know if I can reload them. I know CCI sells .45ACP Blazer in both aluminum and brass. Of mine, 10 are headstamped Speer or Federal, the rest have a headstamp of R . P. across the top and 45 AUTO across the bottom which I think is Remington. Is there a good way to know which are aluminum?

Hope you guys know this stuff because I sure don't. I googled it and got some hits but the only one with pics was selling a DVD.

Bawanna

01-05-2011, 06:15 PM

It'll all load, anything but aluminum. Alot of carry ammo comes in plated cases. It loads no differently than brass.
I would sort it out by brand or head stamp to some degree and keep it in lots that way. Many dont even bother and perhaps it's a waste of time but I like to keep everything the same much as I can.

1000 is a 1000 and I'd hit em up for the balance. That should last you a good long time so you'll probably forget that outfit by the time you need more.

OldLincoln

01-05-2011, 06:28 PM

After posting it occurred to me to google a different question and I found out that brass casings are 3 times the weight of aluminum. Also aluminum should have NR on the headstamp for "not reloadable" and they use a different primer that has 2 flash holes and needs a different primer tool.

I weighed all mine and while not exactly the same they are close enough to brass to be OK to reload. So, Thanks Bawanna for the quick reply and now on to the next step. I have 50 casings in the Tubby now as they aren't exactly ready to reload.

Bawanna

01-05-2011, 06:52 PM

You will know and easily tell an aluminum case. It's noticebly lighter, kind of dull colored and usually will have CCI on the headstamp. They shoot just fine and work well for breakin but once shot, they are totally worthless. Recyclers don't even like them and pay very little if anything for buckets of them.

OldLincoln

01-05-2011, 07:02 PM

I got lucky in my reading a few days ago. I got a Streichers email selling ammo and their page showed 2 Blazer 45ACP ammo with one cheaper than the other. I read further and they stated the cheap one is aluminum and cannot be reloaded. Good for them for being up front about it.

I went to another site I frequent to compare and they had both with 1 cheaper but no disclosure. It would very easy to buy the aluminum thinking you were getting brass. So buyer beware!! You really need to go to the mfg site to understand it all.

Tilos

01-06-2011, 10:27 AM

OL:
There is some 45 brass with small pistol primer pockets, so I suggest you look at those nickel cases for that too.
I think it's used for "lead free" ammo or some such thing...I forget.
just sayin'
Tilos

Bawanna

01-06-2011, 10:41 AM

The Speer lawman is small primered. I've been using it almost exclusively for the last year since the dept has been using it for training. It works perfectly, just have to use a small primer instead of large.
I was heartbroken when I first noticed this and assumed I'd have to ream the primer pocket or something but someone set me straight and the small primers work just fine.
Just one more thing to sort out. Mine are brass though so there could be brass or plated. Once you see one you can set it aside to compare with as they are sometimes easily missed.
First thing I look for before I feed the press, a large will punch out but not pickup a new primer so at the end of the sequence you get a loaded round with powder spilling all over the place and a big mess. Can you tell I've been there recently.
I have to remind the boys to bring me some more, don't want to run low.

Tilos

01-06-2011, 03:12 PM

Bawanna

01-06-2011, 04:12 PM

B:
Good to know you have reloaded small primer 45 brass.
Now I have someone to ask about it.
Do you hand prime the brass?
Is there a special shell holder with a smaller through hole?
Do the small primers fall sideways if the shell plate has holes for large primers?
just askin'
Tilos

I hand primed when I used my single stage but don't with the Hornady. I just used the small primer plunger and the 45acp shellholder or 45acp shell plate and neither machine has given me a single issue so far.
The small primer plunger I believe keeps things centered up regardless of what the shell holder has. Seems to work no problem.

Tilos

01-06-2011, 04:50 PM

Thanks, I've been gathering up the stuff for 45 as I have a 625 5", full lug I used for bowling pins and someone else loaded for me.
I have some of that brass and if I had a free source, I'd use it too.
I didn't know about speer ammo either, thanks, but I'll probably forget that too.
Thanks again,
Tilos

Bawanna

01-06-2011, 05:06 PM

I've had a 625 on my list for a number of years also. My list is long and ever changing. I sometimes forget whats on it till a suttle reminder lands in my lap. Thanks and my wife thanks you too.

Our budget is in the toilet right now but next range day if they take any of the reloadable stuff I'll make sure to seek the brass's return, in fact I should check there might be a bunch already in the back.

We use an outdoor range so often times it nasty with stuck on clay but it all cleans up and works just fine.

If I come up with a sizeable amount I'll let you guys know and share the wealth so to speak.

Tilos

01-07-2011, 05:34 AM

B:
Thanks for the offer, but it would probably just gather dust with the rest of my 45 brass.
I do have a use for a very small amount of 45 nickle brass though....
My scooter has plastic chrome plugs in all the allen screws that break when you try to remove them and replacements are $2-$3 each.
I'm thinking nice nickle brass of the appropriate caliber slipped over those screws would look darn nice.
Sorry for the drift,
Tilos

Bawanna

01-07-2011, 09:27 AM

Like minds, we're thinking along that line on my kids sportster. I made him a key with a 20mm brass shell, looks way cool and he'll never lose it, I guarantee it.

How big the cases need to be, I get quite an assortment of junk here at work that gets turned in for disposal.

earle8888

01-07-2011, 12:31 PM

another 2 cents worth----
brass vs plated cases-- Plated cases are usually chosen because the offer better extraction coefficients. Brass however offer better/faster chamber sealing. Meaning a chrome /silver plated cases MAY indicate high pressure signs with ever thing being equal than brass. Unless you are approaching max pressure it really doesn't make a bunch of difference.
Regarding primer pocket cleaning--needs to be done for best consistency! Besides cleanliness is next to Godliness!!! Dirty or unsymmetrical primer pockets cause different deformation/ measurements, which affect the internal ballistics. Probably not noticeable in pistoles, but long range or bench rifle are noticeable.
Just for the most fanatical--- to sort your brass cases, after trimming, etc. weight each with case full of water. This will show the differences in material and wall thicknesses etc.
I have used model paint on loaded rounds for further reference and identification without ever having a problem, did use very small fine brush and very little well mixed enamel. Some of mine have three different color stripes.

OldLincoln

01-07-2011, 02:52 PM

I seriously regret not waiting for new brass. My "once fired" is an education for sure but I can tell so much difference in Federal compared to some others. Besides feeling heavier and more solid, they shine better and are clean, inside and out. The primer pocket and inside look new vs caked with soot. They aren't marked up stained and scratched. The one's I'll call cheapo feel like a soda can and dent/scratch/discolor something fierce. I'd toss them except they account for about half of my 1K casings.

More learnings....

Some prefer cleaning before punching primers, not me. I tried both ways and the primer pocket gunk is much cleaner if punched first. Of course these casings are suposed to have been cleaned, rolled and "ready to load" - yeah right!

Even if pretty clean, I'm using the pocket cleaner Bawanna gave me on all that show anything in them. I don't want to get a primer stuck half seated. How in the world do you remove them??

Now that I have half of them prepped, it occurred to me that I need to seat a test round - not only to adjust the OL, but to make sure the flare is right. I flared them just enough to set the bullet on top. I won't be surprised if I have to do them all over. But hey, I'm getting the hang of moving that lever!

That's it for now.

Tilos

01-07-2011, 05:01 PM

B:

I'm thinking any caliber bigger the the screw head could be cut short and necked down with the appropriate die for a press fit over the screw head.
Most brass has an internal taper going into the web/base that might work without any "sizing".
Sell them to the Metric guys for $2 and get $5 from the Harley riders.:p

45 nickle, small primer, speer lawman headstamp, oh yeh:cool:
Or 357...:)
Tilos

Bawanna

01-07-2011, 05:19 PM

Seems like I have alot of 357 nickel cases, not sure what I got if any in 45. The speer lawman I been using is brass, not plated. Let me do a bit of looking.

OldLincoln

01-07-2011, 10:39 PM

Well, this novice needs some kind advice. I decided to set an empty casing with a bullet to match the 1.261 OL of my Federal target ammo. I set the depth of the setting die a little light a although it seemed tougher than other processes, set a bullet. The jacket was peeled and the brass crushed. Thinking I better try another, it didn't peel but did crush the brass.

I checked and the die was set to just meet the ram like the other dies. So I set the flair wider - where the bullet sits into the mouth just a hair. Another crushed casing. Set the flair even wider and it left the bullet in the die. If this keeps up I going to have to read the !#$ manual.

To make matters worse, the licking allen screw doesn't lock on the bullet die any more - Grrrrrr.

Bawanna

01-07-2011, 11:10 PM

The seating die does not screw down to meet the shell holder. I used to put a nickel ontop of the shell holder and screw the die to meet that. Just back the die out, put a belled good case in the holder and raise it to the top of the stroke. Now just screw the die down till you feel resistance or you start to close the bell. I seat a tray at that setting. Then go back and screw the die down till you get the crimp you want or just straighten the bell, then use your factory crimp die to crimp.
Your just set way too far down now thats why your peeling bullets and crushing brass.

Dont sweat the lock screw, I just tighten the lock ring usually.

OldLincoln

01-07-2011, 11:31 PM

Those dang instructions that sit on top of the dies in the die box gotta be read I reckon. First Sentence: "Please read instructions carefully." Boring! I think I got that far the first time. Second sentence: "Do not adjust the seater die against the shell holder as it will distort or crush the case." What do you know! That sounds more interesting. They should have made that the first sentence. I'd saved a bunch of casings bullets and time had I read that far the first time.

Bawanna, thanks. I'm reaching here but guessing you set the bullet to the desired OL. What I don't know is how to determine the desired crimp. I don't see a line or anything to announce that it's good. Lacking that I adjusted the die to where the crimp looks like the factory.

The Rockchucker die instructions state once set (a pain), it will set and crimp in one pass. Is that not a good thing?

Bawanna

01-08-2011, 12:01 AM

I usually seat then come back and crimp. I thought you got a Lee factory crimp die? If you seat then crimp you wanna back off the seater plug and just crimp till it looks right and the bullet holds well if you push against something. The 45 is a taper crimp since the shell headspaces on the rim. You can't do a roll crimp like on a revolver round.
You can do both as you say but I prefer separate operations.

FWIW, I frequently read those directions in the die box after all these years. Just reminders.

OldLincoln

01-08-2011, 01:33 PM

I do have the Lee crimper. I just read the instructions but haven't used it yet. I didn't know if it is used after a full crimp first. I'll dial down the regular crimp to just hold the bullet in place then use the Lee.

I think I read the instructions when I initially got the die set, and even read them through the first two dies but skipped them for the seater die - pretty dumb. I wasn't going to seat a bullet but changed my mind just before flairing another batch out of the Tubby. This is a good reminder to slow down.

Bawanna

01-08-2011, 01:42 PM

With the Lee factory crimp die all you have to do is eliminate the bell with the regular seating die. The factory crimp die keeps everything sized and it wont allow you to over crimp. As I recall you screw it down till it touches then back the shell out and screw it down a 1/2 turn or up to 1 turn depending. Seems like the 1/2 turn is usually enough for what I've done.

OldLincoln

01-08-2011, 04:57 PM

Perhaps all you more experienced ones will ho-hum this, but this is why you look over casings before going too far. This one made it through de-priming and cleaning and I looked it over before flaring and caught it.

http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx269/OldLincoln/Reloading/P1010081.jpg

OldLincoln

01-13-2011, 10:42 PM

Bawanna

01-13-2011, 11:14 PM

Mr. B... If you already crimped it with the seating die, can you still use the Lee Factory die? Does it look the same when done?

I'm ready to shop for powder and primers. I will look for 1lb container of 231 if none, HP-38 (same as 231) if none Unique. Primers I'll try to get CCI large of Winchester large. Does this sound good to you?

I questioned HP-38 being the same as 231 but besides everybody saying it's so, I found this in a post. It's a reply to an email sent to Hodgdon.
----------------
"Win. 231 and HP-38 are exactly the same powder. Any data you see for one you can safely use with the other.

Dave Campbell
Hodgdon/ IMR/ Winchester"
-----------------

I'm guessing here that I should make 3 sets of 7 rounds (mag) of different powder loads. I don't know that OL will be a problem as long as I stay in the 1.26 range. I will note which is which and paint the brass differently for each group. I'll take notes for exceptions but expect them all to shoot just swell. I want something that cycles right and reaches all the way out to 25 yards before falling to the floor.

Sure you can use the Lee crimper after a regular die crimp. I'd just straighten the flare out when you seat the bullet, then do the crimp with the Lee. 1.26 sounds long to me, I'm thinking 1.23 but gotta look at the book. I looked at the book and I was right, most bullets in the Hornady book show 1.23 but a max of 1.275. I had to go 1.20 with my Rainiers to clear the rifling. The main thing is load one and put it in the barrel and push it hard with your finger like your trying to chamber it under slide pressure, then turn the barrel up and see if it just fall out effortlessly. If it doesn't then your probably a bit long and the bullet is hitting the rifling. That's what I did with my first batch thru my progressive.
My book shows a minimium of 5 grs of 231 and 5.7 is max. I've been using 5.5 to 5.6 so far with good results. Stay anywhere in that window and you'll be fine.
The world is watching so don't let us down. We only want to hear good things.

OldLincoln

01-14-2011, 12:22 AM

Sure you can use the Lee crimper after a regular die crimp. I'd just straighten the flare out when you seat the bullet, then do the crimp with the Lee. 1.26 sounds long to me, I'm thinking 1.23 but gotta look at the book. I looked at the book and I was right, most bullets in the Hornady book show 1.23 but a max of 1.275. I had to go 1.20 with my Rainiers to clear the rifling. The main thing is load one and put it in the barrel and push it hard with your finger like your trying to chamber it under slide pressure, then turn the barrel up and see if it just fall out effortlessly. If it doesn't then your probably a bit long and the bullet is hitting the rifling. That's what I did with my first batch thru my progressive.
My book shows a minimium of 5 grs of 231 and 5.7 is max. I've been using 5.5 to 5.6 so far with good results. Stay anywhere in that window and you'll be fine.
The world is watching so don't let us down. We only want to hear good things.Well, I cannot tell a lie, so cross your fingers.

I remain confused by OL. My Federal AE jacketed round nose (JRN) measure 1.263 overall length. My HST carry rounds are shorter (lost measurement) and the chart for 200gn doesn't list a JRN, only a cast LSWC and JHP. The JHP shows 1.155" minimum OL. I did find a 200gn Speer GDHP with 1.2" minimum.

Thing is I know the 1.261" is not too long because I shoot that length in my factory 230gn RN (the American Eagles). But with all this confusion, I pulled the barrel and pushed my dummy round in hard and it just fell out and the factory rounds did too. I expected that but wanted to make sure to cover the bases.

I did notice that round nose run longer than hollow point. I suppose that's for feeding issues, not chambering.

If I can find the 231/HP-38 I'll load 5.3, 5.5, 5.7gn staying below the 5.9 max. I'll take the lowest one that consistently works the gun well to save powder and wear on the gun. Agree?

100percent

01-14-2011, 07:07 AM

old lincoln
If you can find a load for the same bullet at the same length then you are golden. I would make sure that you load from data in a book. It is very easy to mis-type. If you set up at a shorter length be sure to start low and work up.

I have found that my Kahr likes higher loads if it is to stay reliable.

Tilos

01-14-2011, 08:38 AM

OL:
I've been following along and you have gotten some good advise since my last post.

You asked, "Agree?"
So
I just want to say I never do the "least powder to make it function deal" as powder is the least expensive component in loading.
At 7000 grains per pound and loading 5-6 grains, you will spill more than the difference of "least powder loads".
The "consistently works" part...clean gun, dirty gun, warm weather, cold weather, multiple gun use?

If it were me, I'd look at accuracy for the sweet spot, as well as function.
I'm not sure the guns you are loading for but Kahrs are "springed" for defense loads, not puff target loads.
Load, Shoot, Repeat.
just sayin'
Tilos

Bawanna

01-14-2011, 09:21 AM

I agree with both these guys and I've said it before too, check the book don't rely on typed words here but I will confirm that your numbers are right.
Your 5.3 start load is not bad as 5.0 is minimim but I suspect you'll find the 5.5 or 5.6 to be better as 100 percent said, kahrs seem to thrive on warmer loads. Also as he said if you do shorten up for any reason your creating a smaller space and hence more pressure. I don't think you can over pressure with that powder but everytime you change something it effects other things as well, the proverbial snow ball effect.

A FMJ round nose can be longer cause it tapers off at the front. It the should of the bullet "Ogive"? that will hang on the lands if the cartridge is too long. Your probably good to go and if they drop out you know your good to go.

Not trying to scare ya either, it ain't rocket science and your ready to start loading.

earle8888

01-14-2011, 10:10 AM

Bawana-- I believe that other than spitzer bullet ogive is "Technically" elliptical ogive. Really not important-- BUT-- had to say something

Bawanna

01-14-2011, 10:13 AM

I was very much afraid I was using the wrong term when I said Ogive, I suspect your correct. Thanks for pointing out my transgression.

OldLincoln

01-14-2011, 05:36 PM

OK, guys, I now have 1lb of 231 sitting in my brand new (still unpainted) powder box and 1K large pistol primers. Need to ask about brands of primers. I got the last 100 of the Winchester and 900 Remington. I'll paint the casing different to see if i can tell a difference in cleanup. Have any of you noticed a difference in performance or cleanup? What is you favorite brand?

I found out there are only 2 shops left in this metro area of nearly 1M people. I went to my favorite shop but they said there isn't a market for it so they dropped reloading stuff 3 years ago.

Since we were talking I asked about the CA law that stops on-line purchase and requires the buyers info and fingerprint when buying ammo. He said it's the same thing that the feds did for 20 years then dropped. Not 1 case was benefited in all that time and he only had 1 visit to look at his records and that came empty.

Bawanna

01-14-2011, 05:42 PM

I've been using Winchester primers lately but they are hard to find sometimes up here. Prior to that I was using CCI forever. I don't know why I switched to be honest, no good reason that I recall. I still have many CCI.

Lately I've been seeing large primers in Winchester but not small which is what I use in them Speer Lawman cases. Guess I'll use some large primer brass if I can't find some more smalls.

I haven't used Remington but I have a bunch, somebody gave them to me and they are way old, just didn't feel it was worth trying them. I can't throw them away since they might be ok but again they might not, ya know.

OldLincoln

01-14-2011, 05:45 PM

I'm a regular chatterbox today....

I looked around at 9mm dies online and saw Midway has a 4 die set of 9mm dies for $35 that includes the usual 3 plus the factory crimping die and shellholder, powder dipper, load data sheet and flat 4-die plastic container. The 3 die set of RCBS is $49 plus $7 shell holder and $16 Lee Factory Crimper. That's $72 total - TWICE what the Lee costs.

I'm thinking I can slip $40 out of the cookie jar and be set up for 9mm. BUT, is there enough of a difference in the brand to stop me?

Bawanna

01-14-2011, 05:53 PM

Make positive sure that the midway dies are carbide sizer. It's not the end of the world if they aren't but its alot nicer not to have to lube cases and stuff.

I've never loaded for 9, never shot it enough to make it worth while.

Might do a cost comparison on practice 9 versus components and see if it's much of a savings. Course if your doing it for pure pleasure and entertainment or to create the magic perfect 9mm load then carry on and ignore me.

Tilos

01-14-2011, 05:59 PM

The lock ring and the color of the box is the only difference I've found between the 2 dies you mentioned.
Oh, and the price...assuming the cheaper set is Lee.
Oh boy, expanding already.
He's on, set the hook Mr.B
Tilos

OldLincoln

01-14-2011, 06:06 PM

The Lee's are all 4 carbide dies. I looked them up separately and sizer, expander and factory crimper comes to $47. That's without the seater die and shell holder.

Tilos just reminded me of the lock ring issue. I need to add 4 Lyman lock rings. What the heck, I'm all jazzed today so I'll do it.

OldLincoln

01-14-2011, 10:46 PM

Something else I bought today is a RCBS "Primer Pocket Brush Combo". I just finished prepping 1,000 casings using what I thought was a primer pocket cleaner, but is something else, an edged tool the fits into the pocket probably to remove burs or something. Its a tiny little thing and my hand still hurts from rolling it between my finger and thumb.

A few days ago i thought it seems like there would be a tiny wire bristled brush to fit into the pocket and scrub it rather than scrape it. Today I stumbled across it while looking at lots of stuff. So I now have both large and small brushes and handle.

I asked the guy about putting that in a drill and he said sure just keep the speed low. When I got home I set the drill into my new for Christmas "Drill Guide" and scrubbed a dozen or so pockets just to see it work. That would have taken the ouch out of the only part of prep I didn't enjoy. Oh well I have it now.

EDIT: I discovered the bristles fall out easily and when a couple fall they all do. Replaced the brush with the scrapper thingy in the drill and it works swell - just like Bawanna says in the following post! I guess you gotta try things and learn that your mentors were right all along. I'm sure there will be more as I grow.

So, what others joys of reloading are you holding out on me????

I'm thinking through the process and okay up to the powder thing. I have the RCBS "Uniflow Powder Measure" with the plastic mipples that you put the casing up to and pull the handle up and down 3 times right? Just checking to see if you are awake. It seems pretty straight forward - as long as you put the primer in first, right Bawanna? Any tips there other than put a saucer or something to catch any grains that attempt to escape.

I just remembered I need a fire extinguisher. I have one in the garage for garage fires so I'll bring it in to started.

Anything else?

Bawanna

01-14-2011, 11:55 PM

No powder should escape. I do raise the lever to pick up the powder and then I tap it 2 or 3 times on the down stroke and try to do that consistently so each charge is the same. 231 measures pretty nicely so shouldn't be an issue.
I charge a case and then dump the case into the powder measure pan to weigh. That way you can stay consistant in your charge. If you try to drop into your pan you'll do it differently so the powder don't fly out of the pan.
Just keep messing with the screw adjustment until you get the charge right. It will be screwed nearly all the way in as 5 grains isn't much.
Theres a large and a small drum, I believe I put the small drum in as I figured that would work best.
Piece of cake you got this.
I always used the little scraper you mention as the brushes don't last long and I thought the scraper was faster. Has a little tip for getting the primer hole. If the brush on your drill works go for it.

Tilos

01-15-2011, 06:10 AM

OL:
Two things come to mind, but remember I haven't done it old school single stage in a long time now.

1.
Setting the powder measure for light charges can be frustrating and is simplified by throwing 10 charges into a big case (rifle) or directly into the scale pan.
Set your scale at 10x your target weight, then weight the 10 thrown charges and adjust the measure to that.
It averages the error out so you don't chase that last 0.1 grain weighing a single charge.

Wait, I still do that one...even for progressive loading.
This makes more sense once you've done it...still baffles me though.

2.
I'll assume you are using loading trays and removing cases individually and putting it under the powder measure.
This works with charging cases while in the tray too.

With the bullets near by, after you throw the powder into the case, look at it(men always look).
NOW, with the charged case still in hand, place a bullet in the case mouth UPSIDE DOWN, and put it back in the tray.
That bullet means it has powder in it and it's impossible to double charge now.
When you go to seating, with case in hand, remove the upside down bullet, check the powder again(men always look, sometimes twice), put that case in the shell holder and seat the bullet(not upside down though).

Again, sorry for spoon feeding, but I don't even remember this stuff until I'm showing someone or doing it myself.
This is how I do it and may not work for you.

Remind me to tell you of a way to reference the powder measure setting so you can return to any setting, throw only one charge to varify the weight, and start loading.

Questions?

Tilos

100percent

01-15-2011, 06:27 AM

Most of the time I spend no effort on cleaning of the primer pockets. I have the Lee scraper tool but I can not detect any difference when it is done.

Chamfering old military brass is important. but only necessary if the brass has a crimp on the primer pocket.

I don't use pistol dies that have the crimping stage. Lee dies can be set to seat and crimp in one stage. They will make either a taper crimp for semi autos or a roll crimp for wheel guns using rounds that seat at the flange rather than the case mouth.

100percent

01-15-2011, 06:44 AM

I always load the bullet in right after I add the powder then I seat the round. I don't have any brass sitting around that has powder in them.

I measure hand gun powder by volume and never load them too hot. Of course I establish what a particular volume weighs.

Winchester 231 is a good fast pistol powder. It meters well and lights up evenly even when the case only has a small amount in it. I use 231 in 380, 38 special, 9mm, 40sw and 45acp.

Don't go make up 100 rounds until you are sure they are what you want. How I do it is to make up one at first and load it amongst factory rounds. See if it works and feels similar to the generic fmj round. Then make up three and test them. If in doubt compare them to factory for recoil and point of aim. Once past that make a couple of mags full and test them.

We shoot off our patio at our berm so I do a lot of testing.

Tilos

01-15-2011, 08:55 AM

100:
I had that luxary in my youth, shooting from the back porch and we didn't even live far out.
You are a lucky man.
22 rifle across the handlebars of my bike, going to the dump to shoot rats, fun times.

How do you know whether it's testing or just shooting:D
just askin'
Tilos

earle8888

01-15-2011, 01:57 PM

Another 2 cents=== I charge primed, cleaned,trimed,champhered, etc. brass. Stack/set them in loading tray. At 50 rounds I look at the loads under a light to see if any look like a diffrerent height/wrong load. Then I bell set bullet seat and Then 4 40S&W use factory crimp die.

OldLincoln

01-15-2011, 05:30 PM

Another fine mess I'm in, Ollie. I have my casings sitting here primed & charged waiting to be bulletized. I thought, being the careful person I am, to seat another test bullet on a fully prepped casing. I did and carefully examined the case before using the crimping die. I saw a line at the crimp where the jacket was torn. I did another and the bullet wasn't straight and tore the jacket, another tore the jacket.

That isn't going to cut it so I adjusted my flair die to open it up until the jacket just fit inside. Then adjusted the seating die to close the flair much less. Then adjusted the crimping die to crimp perfectly. I ran 6 through the whole process and they looked perfect so I pulled the bullets and they look good with a little crimp "girdle" around the right part.

Now I have 2.5 questions:

1. Can I use the bullets with a torn jacket (it's at the base), and the girdled ones?
2. Can I re-flair casings with a primer and emptied out powder?
2.5 If not how do I do it?

100percent

01-15-2011, 05:45 PM

Are you using plated bullets? The skin on them is very thin.

Yes you need get out your kinetic puller and then re-flare the cases. No need to deprime.

You can use the bullets or send them to the recycle pile. They wont shoot the best but can go bang.

OldLincoln

01-15-2011, 05:49 PM

Yes they are plated all over. OK then to re-flare the cases. Of course I'll pour the powder back into the hopper first. Is there a risk of a powder grain remaining and lighting off when pressing?

100percent

01-15-2011, 05:58 PM

Not really anything to worry about.

I think you could benefit if you took a load of powder say 5 grains and put it on a plate then light it up with a match. Do it outside. I am sure you will be unimpressed and afterword not worry about a granule of powder.

Next take foot of duct tape wad it into a ball and light it up.

Bawanna

01-15-2011, 06:01 PM

Your fine, just dump the powder out and rebell the mouths and start over. Your not gonna deprime again so even if there is a grain of powder left behind, not likely it won't hurt a thing since your gonna bell and then charge with powder again.
While you don't want to over bell just to save case life you want enough that the bullet will start down in and basically stay in place on it's own while your moving it to the press. Sounds like your not opening them up quite enough.

OldLincoln

01-15-2011, 07:53 PM

They are ready to go. I intend to go to the range tomorrow, which I never go on weekends, but can't wait.

Also got the first coat of red on my powder box today. Cloud cover is scheduled to break up a bit around midday tomorrow which may allow a second coat. Wife chastised me a few minutes ago for not caulking the joints. I thought about it but told myself I've already overdone it so call it good. Now she has me thinking again.

Tilos

01-16-2011, 05:34 AM

Two steps forward, one step back is the way it goes when learning.
You are in good hands here, with lots of good advise/help.

I don't recall ever tossing an auto case because of a split from over belling and more is better than not enough.

You now know why seating and crimping is best done seperately, more so with plated bullets and removing that case mouth burr too.
Any crimping while seating will scrape off plating because the bullet is still sliding into the case.
Doing ALL the crimping AFTER the bullet is fully seated will end any shaving.
If you are seeing shavings of plating on a competed round, after applying enough belling, I would back off the body of the seating die another 1/2 turn and readjust the stem for OAL on the dummy.
just sayin'
Tilos

OldLincoln

01-16-2011, 12:01 PM

Ah ha! The light just came on, tilos. I wondered why take 2 steps if one would do it but now I know. It's obvious but I didn't think in terms of the crimp being applied as the bullet was pushed down. That explains why some bullets I pulled had a smile right at the crimp line. Since then, I've backed off the seating die until it just holds the bullet. When I use the crimping die it bumps a bit when hitting the lip of the casing and the crimps look great.

OldLincoln

01-16-2011, 03:14 PM

Just got back from the range where all went well. I shot 3 mags (A,B,C) without a failure of any kind except loosing 1 casing. Mag A = 5.2gn, B = 5.4gn, c = 5.6gn. I expected a difference but non was apparent. Maybe a slight more recoil on C than A but not noticeably so. I suspect one couldn't tell which mag was which from shooting. Mag a had Win primers the other Rem and again they all worked.

All casings are about the same for primer pocket grime, and the gun may show a tad more grit in the barrel than factory but I'm not sure I payed that much attention before.

So, I'm supposing I'll charge with 5.4gn of 231 knowing it's enough and not overdoing it. Also, if the charge in a round fluctuates a decimal point it will still be good.

Hey! I'm an official reloader now!!! Yea!!! My wife is beginning to look at me like she thinks I may like this too much. Hmmm, wait till she sees the charges for the new dies, and I need more bullets (45 AND 9mm), and I need some 9mm casings, and some small primers. Damn, what did you guys do to me anyway????

Bawanna

01-16-2011, 04:27 PM

He's on boys, set the hook. We got him now.

Good for you Old Lincoln, you made us all proud.

OldLincoln

01-16-2011, 04:28 PM

He's on boys, set the hook. We got him now.

Good for you Old Lincoln, you made us all proud.And me poor (well poorer)!

Tilos

01-16-2011, 04:31 PM

Not good to try and crimp a bullet as it goes sliding by the case neck.
A good chamfer on the inside of the case mouth helps a lot too.

Yep, it's going to be hard to use the "I'm saving money" card again.
Remember, a powder charge is weighed as a reference to volume and a 1/2 grain is not much volume difference.
Tell me were you lost that brass, I love picking range mushrooms.

Congrats on yoiur success,
Tilos

OldLincoln

01-16-2011, 04:38 PM

I wondered about a chamfer after seeing a video where it was mentioned. But how many times can you do that before the brass is worn down? That goes along with the stuff on trimming the casing. I've seen equipment on it but don't understand why I'd want to do it. How important is it too have all brass the same? I noticed my OL varried a bit an assume it was related to case length, but it was in the .000 range so I said who cares. I have factory rounds longer and shorter than mine and all shoot the same. So I figure dad's 1911 is very forgiving.

I lost the round somewhere between lane 13 and 15. I was shooting 14 and found brass on the far sides of both. That's another thing, why doesn't brass always go to the same place. What makes it decide to go 10' right then left?

100percent

01-16-2011, 07:02 PM

Straight wall handgun cases hardly ever change length. What I notice is that primer pockets loosen and occasionally there are cracks that develop causing the cases to be retired. Some brands are worse than others.

I like reloading for wheelguns because of brass scatter.

Tilos

01-16-2011, 07:43 PM

Just chamfer once to remove the burr left during manufacture, you'll feel it and know it's there just by looking at it.
The brass is wet "tumbled" with hard media (stone) and that peens the thin edge and leaves a burr inside and outside.
Half a twist of the chamfer tool and it's gone, you have one right(?), another $10 if you don't.
Oh my, you're in trouble again, and you thought you'd save money...sure.

100:
Wheelgun, I'm not sure but that might be a cuss word here:boink:.
We only discuss slab sided, brass chucking scrap-o-matics on the this forum.
I said GP100 once and got away with it though:behindsofa:.
just sayin'
Tilos

OldLincoln

01-16-2011, 08:07 PM

Yes I have Bawanna's magic chamfer tool right here! Do it once, heck even I can do that. I only have 1 more jar of casings to re-flair (or do you call it re-bell?) and then I guess I'll start all over again.

I know one thing I want to modify on Bawanna's rockchucker for sure. I want to put a slot machine arm ball on it to replace that grip. Can't change the angle much with the grip but the ball you can angle as much as you want. Of course if that's been tried and nixed tell me so I can save a lesson.

Bawanna

01-16-2011, 08:16 PM

Nope thats a good idea. The Rockchucker still on my bench has a ball knob on the end. Didn't give it a thought but I recall now that you mention it that the ball is alot nicer feeling.
Maybe a round gear shift knob or something.

OldLincoln

01-16-2011, 08:17 PM

Yeah, then I can either play a slot machine or a muscle car sound with every pull.

Tilos

01-17-2011, 06:58 AM

They make those D shaped shovel type handles that fit too.
I just duct taped a piece of foam pipe insulation around the ball on mine, right were the palm of your hand pushes when seating a primer...wait I have a piggyback progressive on top of my rock, never mind.

OldLincoln

01-17-2011, 02:23 PM

Came across tha answer to another question I've had: "How do you remove a live primer?" The answer is you carefully de-prime it with your normal die. They said smooth and slow is key although the risk is pretty low, and wear safety glasses.

Today is another yucky day. Maybe I'll install a fireplace screen saver on my computer so I can re-bell the remaining 400 casings and start chamfering all 1K of them in front of a fire today. Play my oldies on the PC and think nice thoughts.

recoilguy

01-17-2011, 03:45 PM

I just bought some of new powder yesterday, Blue Dot smokeless magnum shotshell and handgun powder because it was on sale at the LGS. MAN does it take a bunch of powder. 7.1 to7.9g in a 124g 9mm shell 7.9g ...that is almost full. Kind of spooked me out when I saw how full it was....backed off to 7.4 g. I am going to go shoot a couple rounds tomorrow night before I decide to load any more or sell it to someone else and get my regular brand for rolling my own.

I always see Blue Dot around anything I should look for when shooting tomorrow? There is a lot of powder in that casing at 7.4g. I have used other Alliant powders before and liked them. and only needed about say 5 grains of powdwer in the 9mm casing I have not read this entire thread but is there any words of wisdom on Blue Dot?

RCG

Tilos

01-17-2011, 04:05 PM

OL:
I'd take that primed case out into the garage or yard(at night) and fire it off in a gun.
It'll show you the power of a primer.
In the press I'd put a drop of oil in it first, before pushing it out...wear ears plugs any way you do it.

rcguy:
I don't recall any dicussion here about blue dot, but then again, I don't remember why I just walked into this room either.
I have used it for 357 and still have most of that pound left so I must not have been too impressed with it.
I can check my records, yes they are here with me, but my reloading stuff, well, it's all set up, 2600 miles away!
A full case with good velocity and well within pressure limits could be a good thing for 9mm.
Let us know how it works out.
Tilos

OldLincoln

01-17-2011, 04:06 PM

I have not read this entire thread but is there any words of wisdom on Blue Dot?

RCGNot that I recall. We talked powder a bit at the top but I don't recall Blue Dot. I did check the Blue Dot site and confirmed what you saw.

OldLincoln

01-17-2011, 04:14 PM

OL:
I'd take that primed case out into the garage or yard(at night) and fire it off in a gun.
It'll show you the power of a primer.
In the press I'd put a drop of oil in it first, before pushing it out...wear ears plugs any way you do it.
TilosI don't have the issue yet but may someday. The thread was on the 1911.com reloader forum. Oldtimers said they have pushed out many without issue. I would fire it off if it were in straight and not chance a problem with debree flying around.

Bawanna

01-17-2011, 05:12 PM

I like to fill a case as much as I can as long as it's a safe recipe in the book. Just less room for it to move around.

As a side note, I finally had time to load a 100 of my Precision Delta bullets today to try next week before I start mass production.
A Federal FMJ measured about 1.65, I looked in my Hornady book and they listed 2.30 OAL for their FMJ. So I matched the Federal and it stuck a bit in my PM45 chamber. So I shortened to 1.30 and it seemed a tad better but still not a free fall out of the chamber.
On a whim I turned my Lee Factory crimp die down another quarter turn and alas they fall out with ease. So I ended up setting up for about 1.40 OAL.
Everything looks like it's gonna run just fine.
I was so used to my 200 gr Rainier loads that I was stuck on 6.4 to 6.7 grains of 231. I looked at the book for 230 FMJ and it was a full grain less. But it didn't register. I was still in 6 mode. I caught my mental lapse early in the game and got things back into the 5 mode.

Oh I also applied Tilos measure 10 cases and go for average plan and it worked like a million bucks. 10 cases full and I was only off less than half a grain so I'm right in there. That single make em all match does indeed drive me nuts.

You rock Tilos.

Tilos

01-17-2011, 07:10 PM

Glad to help.
I have a big honkin' rifle case that I throw ten charges into, then dump it into the scale pan.
I called it "big honkin'" because I don't know what caliber it is and cannot go look.
Probably a 30-06, anything that will hold 60-80 grains of powder should work.
That heavier bullet should give softer recoil too, an added plus.
We expect a range report after you get to touch some off.
Tilos

Bawanna

01-17-2011, 09:27 PM

I remembered the big honkin case to accept 10 charges but I'm using the powder measure on the progressive and the case actually goes up inside to activate the measure. Had to just use a 45 case and dump it out. I suppose I could dismount the measure and activate it manually but I wanted to keep things consistent.

After range report gauranteed.

Tilos

01-18-2011, 05:44 AM

OH, maybe you could use something like a 45-70 case(long almost straight wall) and just push it up and down into that powder drop thing 10 times.

Maybe a 20 gage or 410 shotgun shell would work, with the crimp part cut off.
Perhaps "assisting" the activation mechanism by hand would help also.
Or a longer bolt in the appropriate pivot could be added to allow hand powder drops.
I'm sure you will come up with something.

If you don't have a micrometer spindle in that powder measure, there's a way to take a reference measurement to allow you to return to that exact setting in seconds.
I will take and post a pic later once it becomes light as my camera does not like floresent light.

Tilos

01-18-2011, 07:37 AM

I don't have a micrometer spindle on any powder measures, so I just measure and record the distance from the end of the adjustment screw to the locking nut.
This is just a reference number and cannot be used for a different powder for the same target weight.
I use a dial caliper (a digital works too) with a feature on the caliper most do not use or know about.
I'll try to post some pics...it's been a while:
The bolt represents the powder measure spindle in the last pic.
Tilos

Tilos

01-18-2011, 08:57 AM

This same method can be used to measure and record the stem setting of the seating die.
And if you don't ever re-adjust the body of the seating die, you can quickly return when changing back and forth to a different bullet type to maintain the exact OAL.

You know, like switching from Precision Delta to Rainier and back;).

If you don't have a caliper (you need one), just knowing the stem thread pitch tells you the value of a half turn, quarter turn of adjustment.

Most reloaders don't switch to different powder charges or bullets because of the tedious, time consuming, adjusting needed for a change over.
Using this method takes the tedium out of a change over.
just sayin'
Tilos

Bawanna

01-18-2011, 09:29 AM

Good stuff Tilos. Thats pretty much why I was setting this machine up for 45 and leaving it alone. I do plan to switch back and forth once in awhile from Hornady's to Rainiers and of course the Precision Deltas.

This old dogs learning many new tricks. I've had the same dial caliper for 20 years and danged if I didn't drop the darn thing a month ago. It still works but it spun the dial so the zero ain't straight up. Darned if I can figure how to put it back. It works its just not the way I'm used to and I hate change.

Once again, thanks for some good info. I'll be noting those dimensions next time I'm in the man cave.

Tilos

01-18-2011, 09:54 AM

There's a tool for that and it's usually in the case, with instructions and illustrations.
Your caliper just skipped a tooth and is easy to reset.
If you don't have the little tool that you stick in behind the dial, try the manufacturer website for direction.
They will explain it better than I ever could.
You can make the tool out of a coke can with scissors, and I've used a small wire paper clip too
Tilos

100percent

01-18-2011, 07:48 PM

I would want to consider that the bullet seating, crimping die is not a problem. It only crimps the end as the bullet is seated to the final depth. It doesn't crimp until the seating is within a fraction of seated.

I use the crimping die on my rifle handloads but havent used them on my handguns.

By adjusting the die properly you set the length and crimp in one step. I usually set the bullet to the length I want leaving the crimp minimal. I then backoff the length setting and slowly adjust the die down until I get the crimp I want. Last step is to turn the bullet seating screw down tight to maintain the length I want.

My bullets fit my guns well and shoot accurately.

On revolvers I turn the die in until I get a roll crimp. On autos I turn the die in only enough to give it a taper crimp.

OldLincoln

01-18-2011, 08:02 PM

About die settings. If you only load one formula, like me, you can put a drop of Locktite Green (penetrating) on the lockring and it'll stay ther (let it dry 24hrs before messing with it). If you need to change it later, dab some acetone on the same spot and it dissolves.

Tilos

01-19-2011, 06:18 AM

OL:
Good tip on the Loctite.
Men love stuff that comes in 1/2 oz. bottles that cost $6.

I've found nail polish works too, and my wife gave me a qt. size ziplock bag full of the 1/2 oz. bottles that women love so much.
Tilos

Bawanna

01-19-2011, 09:37 AM

It's just important to make sure you find the proper shade to avoid clashing with the numerous reloading accessories.

One certainly doesn't want to end up on worlds worst reloading shades does one?

Tilos

01-19-2011, 10:26 AM

Now that OL is a seasoned reloader, I'm thinking this thread is approaching the declining "years" and will be dying of natural causes soon.
We've taken some twists and turns along the way, but it's been a fun journey none the less.
I hope we let it die with dignity and not go the "vacation with Bernie" route.

Just sayin'
Tilos

OldLincoln

01-19-2011, 06:00 PM

Not quite yet Tilos, I've loaded a grand total of 21 rounds to date and have a long way to go. But I'll only hold the thread a little bit, mainly for other new loaders.

I just completed chamfering almost 1,000 rounds of "once fired" brass. About 20% were already chamfered so I'm guessing those werre at least "twice fired". The other 80% was an education tho. Some had a sharpness that peeled off the inside lip others had roughness that flaked off. I was being gentle and careful with the tool but I saw the importance of doing this once for the life of each casing.

I had an issue with my practice seating of a few bullets. They peeled the plating back like an orange. I'm sure I had not belled the mouth enough to begin with, but now I see that I may not need to go as wide as I did, given the chamfer. So chamfer, and use those to set the bell.

Also, I learned that not all brass is equal. Speer, Blazer & Federal feels soft to chamfer, some others feel hard and brittle. I take it that those hard and brittle could become scrap sooner than the soft.

As for other learnings:
1. Plan on bigger than you think you need. I didn't want to reload, but need to in order to shoot. I was hooked pretty early and now wish I had bought a larger tumbler. Mine works great but only does 75 casings at a whack which means a lot of loads for 1K of them. I didn't intend to get that many but it seemed like a good idea at the time. Many components become affordable (per round) in larger quantities so plan for it.

2. If you need a small operation you can put it in a small space. My "bench" is a 20" long 2" x 8" board with the Rockchucker on one end and the powder dispenser the other. It clamps to the desk worktop with 2 4" C-clamps. It will store in the garage when I'm ready. I have a very nice re-enforced box with lid for all accessories. The press and powder measure will fit in it also. Now this won't cut it for a magical 6 stage automatic whats-it so plan accordingly.

3. Ask questions and don't expect to know it all before your punch your first spent primer. Much learning comes as you hit bumps along the way. I've messed with all 1K casings at least 3 times when I had to do it over to make a change. Now I should not have to do that again for the reasons I've learned so far. But it'll be something else for a while.

4. Messing with used brass gets messy. Get a cheap rug, canvas drop cloth, or something you can put down and take up easily, as well as a shop apron or reloading clothes for you. I say take up the rug because you DO NOT want to track it onto the nice flooring. Also, don't get a rug the brass and small parts will get lost in. I have hard flooring under my space and anything that drops bounces at least 3 times taking off in all directions. It's a drag to get down to hunt for it.

5. A good light & glass helps see what you're doing. I had 3 split casings and another 8-10 damaged beyond repair. You need light and magnifying glass to inspect. I only used the glass when something didn't look right and I wanted a closer look.

6. When time to buy powder and bullets, buy something you see in your book. I wasted a lot of time because my bullets aren't to be found in the recipe book. Fortunately I was advised here to buy only Unique or 231 powder and they are listed everywhere. My next bullets will be also. FYI: I didn't see any difference in primers buy others may advise differently.

OK, I'm done. I'll release the thread if you like. Last thing is a huge thanks to Bawanna for getting me started with his gift of a used press and a lot of accessories. Without his generosity I could not have even begun the journey. Many others here and other forums have given generous and patient advice. Even to the point of telling me I'm nuts but then going along with my building a powder box - it really is not necessary.

So thanks to all and we'll see what happens next. I couldn't stop now without lots of counseling and a 12 step program. And it's all your collective fault - thank you sincerely.

recoilguy

01-24-2011, 02:30 PM

I shot the Blue Dot powder.......I could see the muzzle flash in the indoor range and when I took my gun apart to clean it after just 40 rounds it looked like someone had rolled the insides around in a bag of Kingford.......That Blue dot is some dirty powder......back to Bullseye or titegroup . saving a couple bucks isn't worth it on this. I think I will sell this to a buddy who loads shotgun shells....it looks more like shotgun shell powder then I am used too also.

Oh well you don't try you don't know. If I only could use Blue dot I would but as long as there is other choices ........ I will go with other choices.

RCG

MW surveyor

01-24-2011, 03:36 PM

Man, went off to work on the 9th of December, returned last week and discovered we have a new section in the forum! This is great as I also reload for my 9 mm, 38 and 357. Always looking for more information.

Good luck OldLincoln. Seems like you are definately on your way to getting hooked!

Tilos

01-24-2011, 06:34 PM

rcg:
Thanks for the blue dot update/info, I wondered how you made out.
A dollar or three price difference doesn't change the per shot cost very much when a pound makes 1000-2000 reloads. (7000 grains per pound).

But, like a pound of coffee is now 14 oz., powder cans have been shrinking too, look at the weight before you buy.

Tilos

01-24-2011, 09:47 PM

A lot more brass has been ruined by attempted annealing than having it's useful life extended.
It's kind of like reading a major league player discribing the mechanics of hitting a home run...you find it interesting, may even understand it, but when a ball goes by your knees at 100 mph, you tend to forget all you have read.

Surplus 30-06 is left as annealed, not tumbled, and easy to see the discoloration transition from annealing.
Of course that is done mechanically, on a machine, with controlled conditions.
Without the brass turning while aplying the heat, it's near impossible to get the anneal even.
Once you see color, even in a darkened room, you have applied too much heat.
Most reloaders whine about having to trim brass and for me, an open flame is danger, forget about molten metal and casting.
I'd be sitting in the emergency room, eventually.

I'm not sure what your range ports are like but if there is a wall on your right, a cloth can be tacked up high and draped down to the bench top, in the shape of slanted letter J.
Any brass that hits it will fall into the hook part of the J profile.
It cannot be tight against the wall or the brass with bounce off the cloth.

At the open outdoor range I've used a sane(sp?) fishing net (has small openings) held up to height with a cheap camera tripod bought at Goodwill for $2.
The same (sane) net can be used at the indoor range too, with something shorter than the tripod to position it.

just sayin'
Tilos