Learning Curve

[OldLincoln]

I remember when my son was in his late 20's and we were discussing something he was about to do. He sought my advice and I gave it without any strings to pull should he choose the other path. A few days later he told me he chose the other path, saying he thinks he would regret not giving it a shot. But the line I remember most is this: "I know you have learned a lot from your mistakes and want to protect me from making the same ones, but sometimes I have to learn the same way you did."

Now that he's approaching 40, I'm amazed at hearing him parrot so many lines that I've given him over the years. It's satisfying to know he really was listening after all. Even more so is his wife cracking up at somthing I say saying "He is SO much like you it sounds like him talking!"

Like my son, I have strayed from advice from mentors here and am returning to the chosen path.

First, I said I intended to punch primers before cleaning. That was when my only experience was the first brass I bought that was "cleaned and roll sized". They were clean enough to do that. Since then I bought some untouched brass that has changed my story. Now I can say I clean before putting them in my dies. I don't even handle them before cleaning, but scoop them out of the bucket and into the tumbler with a coffee can.

Second, included in Bawanna's gift basket (thank you always!) was a little box with a doubled ended primer pocket scrapper - one end large the other small. I scraped 1K casings rolling that tiny thing in my fingers and thought there has to be a better way.

So I discovered they make a metal brush thing I could put in the drill and that makes primer pockets all shiny. Bawanna said he doesn't like the brush because it falls apart and prefers the scraper. Sure enough the brushes fell apart before very long. Let a couple of the wires fall out and they all fall out. So I finished my batch with the scraper thing in the drill and like it better.

So, all my mentors, keep talking because I AM listening. I'll try harder to take what you say and use it. To be clear, I've not strayed about powder and reloading itself. I have a very healthy respect for the process and intend to stay on the sidewalk at least until I'm a seasoned reloader.

Thank you for your patience and keep the advice flowing.

[Bawanna]

I see the very exact same thing with my son. He always wants to buck the system at first but usually comes around. Sometimes his ideas are sound and I learn from him also. Our problem is he is very patient, I'm a get er done kind of guy so we butt heads frequently.
It's the most frustrating thing for me to watch somebody do something that I used to do all the time that I can no longer do, even down to changing a light bulb, simple stuff like wash the lamp shade while you got it down. The list goes on and on. I often times wish I could have legs and my old energy and about 6 months to get things back in shape and then back to the chair. I keep hoping, so far it ain't happened but I'm still hoping.

A very wise man once told me when ever you take up a new hobby, in that particular case I was getting into archery. He said find a guy you know and trust who is doing it. Do exactly what he does, match him to a T.
Then as you go along modify it to fit your own needs. Works in all things, it really does.

I learn an awful lot from everyone here, sometimes a little tweak here or there that just smacks you in the forehead and you go why the heck didn't I think of that.

Guess we never stop learning and sharing our experiences thank goodness.

[MW surveyor]

OldLincoln - we all learn the way we learn (some people however, never learn)

I consider myself a newbie reloader even though I've been reloading since May/June of last year when I was gifted a Lee anniverery kit. Read and joined a lot of forums that have reloading sections. Learned a whole bunch from them. Most of the forums have pretty good people that take the time to help and the majority of the advice is the result of thier experiences.

Like you, I thought that the primer pocket brush was the way to go. Chucked it in the drill press and went to town. After having to buy a couple of them after they fell apart, went back to the scraper type. Now however, I don't clean the primer pockets at all for my pistol rounds. This was "learned" from other forums. I do check the primer holes after depriming and also before priming. (If I was shooting competition, I'd go back to reaming the primer pockets, but have not had one failure to fire since I stopped cleaning the primer pockets.)

Really thought about getting a universal deprime die and then cleaning the brass. Thought about it and decided that running cleaned brass through the deprime/resize die was better/more efficient. I deprime after cleaning, inspect the primer area and hole and tap the case to remove any walnut media. I look again at the primer pocket before priming either on the press or the hand primer.

If you don't have a hand primer, try to get one. I've found that it is a good time saver for the reloading operations as you can prime the empties while watching tv or listening to the radio when you have nothing better to do. Sure you can prime on the press and I have done so before I had the hand primer but for me it seems to work out for the best using the hand primer. I think that you also get a better "feel" for setting the primers using the hand primer.

My reload bench looks nothing like when I started last year. The single stage press has been moved over to make more room for the turret. I now have a dedicated spot for the scale. Supplies have been moved around for more efficiency. Added/moved lighting.

Enough for now. Enjoy your new hobby. I know that I do.

Jim

[OldLincoln]

I've been to the same forums where they poo-poo cleaning pistol primer pockets. Last night I noticed just how clean most casings were, so I set 2 butter cups in front of me and as part of the inspection routine put them in the clean or good 'nuf cups. Surprised to find 2/3d's wer good nuf, saving a lot of time. I figure this is a healthy compromise. If the pocket is clear to seat I won't fret over some soot, but if the pocket wall is sooty I'll clean it. I fear having a primer that refuses to seat. It's like I'm on probation here and being careful.

[MW surveyor]

Being careful is part of the process of reloading. Don't want to hurt yourself, someone next to you or your gun.

The hand primer that I mentioned gives you the tactial feel/feedback when setting. I've found a few pockets that passed a visual but didn't feel right and needed to be cleaned that way.

Heck, talk about anal retentive. When I first started reloading I chucked a bore brush in the drill press and cleaned out every case with the brush after tumbling!

[OldLincoln]

I have only used the Lee hand primer. Some press in easily and others take a good squeeze. I did stick a used primer in the little do-dad on the Rockchucker and seated it during the punching process. There was no feel to it but it did seat nicely.

I considered a brush for the inside but my walnut media cleans them very well. I did play around trying to clean them with dishwasher detergent and other stuff just to see what would happen and it didn't do anything. I don't see how the sonic cleaner would get them shiny bright in 15 minutes like they advertise. someday when I think of it I'll put on a pot of the detergent to boil and drop in a wire basket full of casings and shake it around a lot to see if heat makes a difference. This just to find out what it really takes.

[MW surveyor]

I bought the Lee hand primer ( earlier this month) also and I like it better than using the press as I have been doing since I started.

I think that you are supposed to use lemon scented dishwash soap. Or something that contains citric acid. If you wash, then you have to dry. I'll stick with throwing the cases into the vibratory cleaner with the walnut media (from Petsmart) and nu finish. Nice and shiney and dry.

My evil reloading shop has really been pushing the sonic cleaner that they have. Some people like them but hey for the price they better be good.

[OldLincoln]

My little Tubby will handle about 100 9mm casings. With 3300 of them that's 33 batches at 4 hours each or a bunch of hours on the poor little thing. I'm beginning to think in terms of a big cast iron cauldron over a fire in the back yard boiling some magic brew cleaning 3300 casings to a spotless condition inside and out in a few minutes.

From what I've read the sonic cleaner will clean most of the crud off but not make brass shiny.

[OldLincoln]

Another question, always one more huh?

I've come across a few casings that don't want to punch with the punch hitting the bottom of the casing but there's no flash hole there. Looking as best I can see there's a two or three tiny flash holes around the center of the primer. The stamp reads "P S" on top and "1952" on the bottom.

I hope they are okay because I've just driven the punch on through making a new flass hole like a proctologist. When you youngsters out there mature a bit you'll know what I'm talkin about!!

[MW surveyor]

Those are old european military cases that were Berdan primed. From what I've read its better to toss them. This is kind of wierd because Berdan was American and Boxer was european. The US (and most of europe) now use the Boxer type primer.

[Bawanna]

Toss em. Not worth the effort or the worry. Most aluminum case Blazer ammo is that way also.

[wyntrout]

They CAN be loaded. The Berdan primer pockets need to be drilled and reamed, though. The top of the pocket is crimped in, I believe. And I've seen the aluminum cases reloaded as well. Unless I was hurting for BRASS, I wouldn't bother, though. I guess those aluminum ones could be reloaded for disposable use... leave 'em on the floor at an indoor range with no pick up policy, or don't worry about recovering them when you're practicing cowboy shooting riding through the woods on your horse... or ATV. :D

Some people just can't throw stuff away!

Wynn:D

[100percent]

You don't want to reload Berdan primed ammo. The anvil that the primer strikes is part of the brass rather than the primer itself. The internal shape of the primer pocket is wrong.

I think many foreign manufacturers do that to prevent their subjects (not citizens) from reloading ammo, it is about control.

[OldLincoln]

So I can but shouldn't, right? I've already punched and reamed 8-10 and those are mixed in with the 800. Thank goodness they don't shine up like the other!

Thanks guys.

[Bawanna]

So I can but shouldn't, right? I've already punched and reamed 8-10 and those are mixed in with the 800. Thank goodness they don't shine up like the other!

Thanks guys.

I'd get ya a bucket or those plastic coffee cans with the replaceable lids work good too. Anytime you got anything that's questionable, split, ruined whatever, toss it in the can. I have numerous cans and buckets of questionable cases, loaded rounds that people give me that I ain't gonna shoot.
Something to sort thru if the time ever presents itself........................

My rule of thumb is when in doubt it's bad until proven otherwise..

[MW surveyor]

I've run into a few out of the range pickups. I just toss em. Not worth the hassel. Heck I got all the others for free anyway.

[OldLincoln]

Yeah, I already dug out the dozen or so in my batch of 800. I did a bad thing however in the process and hope I don't get in trouble for it. Rather than give each casing the same treatment, I profiled - yup, guilty! The bad guys have a bronzed dull look to the case, so I put one in each group I poured onto a paper towel for comparison. I could eliminate the nickle and the shiny yellow ones immediately, leaving only a few to review (interview?). The dead give away was looking down the throat they are so dark you can't see anything but the big hole I punched and 1 of the tiny holes there originally. I know them when punching so they will be easy to pick out going forward.

PS: Anything else I should know about?

[Bawanna]

You could easily pick them out later as you load also. I look over each case before I feed the press. Check for a clear primer hole, debri, etc. Sort brass enough I hate to do it anymore than I have to.

[MW surveyor]

It is not unacceptable to "profile" empty cases! There are no PC rules on this. In fact, I'm guilty of this myself. If it isn't semi-shiny yellow it gets either tossed or not selected during the initial cull. Sometimes I get fooled on size. Man I hate it when some of the 40s and 380s sneak in and then get tossed in the vibrator. Hard to separate the 9 mm and 380s from the 40s when they lock up. If they don't come apart right away....toss em.

Mr. B - (easier to write than BAWANNA45CAL) I separate all my cases by mfg. especially with the 38s and 357s. Seems like each mfg has a sligtly different COL and when mixed plays havoc on getting the crimp in just the right spot.

[Bawanna]

I also sort by brand pretty much. I used to sort our dept brass and still do pretty much. We used to trade it in for credit for new ammo or stuff at a local sporting good store.

I hated the mixtures of 9, 40, 45, 223, shotgun hulls, and occasional 380 or 38's and the mountains of aluminum cases to boot.

[OldLincoln]

Just got back from my local reloading supply store with 1K CCI small primers for $37.90. While there, I looked at bullets and they sell copper plated bullets for about 25% less than Berry's. Too bad I just bought from Berry's, but I'll be trying this store next time.

Also, looking at their powder, they are getting low on 231 and the guy said Winchester told them they won't get any more for about a year as they landed a big military contract that gets it all. They do carry Unique - and yes the bottle will fit my powder box.

[MW surveyor]

OL

I guess the $37.90 is a good price for CA. Here in TX I pay $29.00. Depending on where I go, I can get Federals for 27.50.

What's the price on the copper plated bullets if you don't mind. If they are not much more than the price I pay for my hard cast, may be worth looking into.

HP38 is the same as W231 and both are made by Hodgens. If you look at Hodgens web site, you will see that the loads are identical.

I started out with Unique and moved on to Bullseye and HP38 for the target loads in the 38, 357 and 9 mm. Still use the Unique for mid range 357 magnum. Unique is good for a whole bunch of different types of loads/calibers but it is somewhat case position sensitive and does not burn completly in low grain weight loads in high volume cases.

Jim

[OldLincoln]

Another tidbit I learned again today. I was loading my 115gn Berry's and every chart I have listed a 115 9mm bullet, but none listed that bullet AND 321 powder. Grrr. Finally read that the bullets are soft lead covered in hard but thin coat of copper, and we should use the lead loading for them.

Well, I loaded 100 9mm and another 100 45, cleaned off my bench and put it away for awhile. I accomplished a lot in a short time, spent a lot (to me) of money and learned a bunch, but it's time to get the taxes done and finish getting the leaves up.

I'm not going anywhere but have to stop bleeding money for awhile.

[Bawanna]

This is why you should always check a book or reference. I think you mean 231 powder, not 321. Just wanted you to know I try to pay attention when you share your thoughts.

[OldLincoln]

I checked both books you gave me, the Hodgdon site, the Berry's site, and the load data in the Lee die set. NONE of them had 115gn RN plated bullets with 231 powder. It was only on a forum asking the same questions did I see the statement.

But another learning.... I intended to find one and only one combination for a 9mm and one of a 45 load. I learned today that almost anything can change your setup, even different batches of the same brand same item. I guess that leaves my loctite idea out. I though I'd set the dies and never change them. Not exactly... However, I also learned through experience that changing the setup is not a big deal.

The way I built my loading setup allows me to put it up and down in less than 5 minutes. I still have about half pound of powder, 150 bullets in each flavor, many primers, thousands of casings, so I can still do some now and then, I just can't spend my entire days in the arms of this mistress. I'll shoot in the next day or so and try out my third prototype of brass catcher while there.

[Tilos]

I think I posted here, somewhere, about using the back of a dial caliper to set seater dies and powder measures for quick return to known settings.

In my experience, that different combo talk is more related to rifle cartridge reloading and has little affect on handgun ammo used at short distances.
Although I'm anal about most things I do, mixing components to shoot out of scrap-o-matics, is not one of them.
Loading is a great passtime/hobbie in that you can put it away when your life gets in the way, and return to rekindle the love:blushing:.

Yup, no battery to go dead, tires to go flat, gas to gunk up, nothing becomes out dated, no tee times needed, no foresome, no waiting for the people in front of you, etc.

Tilos