Help with unusual holster need please?

[Willieboy]

Guy's as i mentioned in my very first post here on KahrTalk, I am a member of my church's security team. The weather here in south Texas is beginning to heat up and soon, covering an IWB with a suit or sport coat will no longer be practical. So, I'm working on a solution.

Last week I purchased a single stack nine (PM9) as an alternative to the double stack G26 and P11. However, I still haven't found the ideal holster. I've tried the MTAC and the tuckable part with the P11 is a real challenge and once accomplished, the gun is not very concealable.

What I think would be ideal is a tuckable crossdraw holster. I could easily tuck and pull my shirt out with my left hand and access the gun with my right hand. Given the PM9's short length, I can sit comfortably. I know this because I've carried the gun, Mex style in this poistion. AN obvious drawback would be having the pistol find its way down my left pants leg. (That would be embarassing.)

Sliebl introduced me to the Remora holster and I think it may be a possibility but I thought I'd challenge you guys as well. Any ideas? Anyone have experience with the Remora?

Thanks in advance,

Bill

[JohnR]

I've carried my PF9 crossdraw in a regular IWB tuckable Ace Case holster. The only reason I don't do it regularly is strong side eliminates the possibility of muzzle sweep when drawing. Under stress, if I pull it out crossdraw, I could sweep across 90 degrees of azimuth with my finger too close to the trigger.

[jlottmc]

I was going to say that I use one of those for my P45, and others. The one for 380's should fit pretty well for that little gun. It fits my P45 like a glove. The leather is very thin, which is good and bad. It's good because it weighs little, but doesn't hold a shape for re-holstering, and allows sweat through pretty easily. Good thing Kahrs are now stainless steel; between that and a little oil, your good to go. Uncle Mikes has a tuckable, but I'm not overly impressed with many of their current offerings. If you carry strong side, practice, practice, practice, and you'll figure out how not to sweep everything.

[Willieboy]

Good point John. I know crossdraw is not ideal and would prefer behind the right hip carry. Maybe I need to forget I'm so old and and untrendy and just wear my shirt out of my pants, even to church.

[jlottmc]

Those Ace Case holsters work well. I have three that carry a multitude of weapons, I tuck, and they disappear. Pull the shirt tail out just a hair to give a little more room, and that over hang hides the tab completely, put the clip under the belt and they disappear. I have only two pistols that I don't carry in one of those, my 1911, and my GP100. Both are huge, I could get a holster for the 1911, but I prefer not to with the carbon steel slide. I carry mine about 430 ish, sometimes as far back as 6 o'clock. Never had a problem with them that way. FYI Cheaper Than Dirt has them for about a ten dollar bill. http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ZAA826-1.html That should do it.

[Bawanna]

While I don't like the position as a primary weapon you might consider an ankle rig. I doubt you do much running in church and it will certainly go unoticed with any kind of pants.
Don't give into this young trend of dressing like a slob and wearing your hat backwards. Things are bad enough, don't contribute and give in.

[ripley16]

If you're carrying a PM9 then Pocket carry or an ankle holster should do the trick. No coat needed for either method.

[Willieboy]

Don't give into this young trend of dressing like a slob and wearing your hat backwards. Things are bad enough, don't contribute and give in.

Not much chance of this happening, in fact, none at all.

Thanks for all the suggestions guys.

[pappy42]

+1 for pocket carry

[onegun]

I just returned from church a couple of hours ago. Our security team primarily carries small .380s in the pocket. Bad choice in my opinion. One always belt carries a medium automatic but that requires a jacket. Tonight we were having an informal meeting/supper. I wore jeans, boots and a long sleeve shirt tucked in (all fairly snug). I also carried a K9 in a Kangaroo Carry standard holster I had for my J frame. It fit perfectly, could not be seen, and the weight of the stainless gun actually made it carry better than my 340 M&P. Carried the spare mag in my jeans pocket. The shirt was open collar and I know I could get it out much quicker than something in my pocket or on the ankle, especially seated. It's very comfortable, inexpensive, and very concealable. My only concern would be for when it get's really hot but I wipe down my pistols every time I remove them from it. Just another option.
http://www.kangaroocarry.com/standard-holster

[Willieboy]

I'll check it out Onegun. Thanks for the tip. I agree .380s fall short of the need. Barrels are too short for accuracy, in my hands anyway. In my assigned position, the ranges could be up to 20 yards or so. Others would have shorter distances with which to contend.

[joshh]

the pm9 carries great in the fromt pocket with a desantis superfly. it has a removable/adjustable flap that eliminates any print and helps ensure the pistol draws without the holster on it. i didnt think i'd like this myself and bought this holster for a great price at a local show and it has become my preferred method of carry.

[pm9fan]

I really like the Remora holsters but they are not tuckable.

I might suggest a Smart Carry (A.K.A. Thunder Ware) that works with almost any type of pants. Different draw but very easy to conceal a PM9.
http://www.smartcarry.com/

Another very easy, and cheap, option is the ZACK minimum holster from Dale Fricke (have to email Mr. Fricke to get one made). Similar to the MIC holster for Glocks. Just a kydex trigger guard with a hole for a nylon lanyard. Great for PM9 sized guns and tuckable (appendix, 2-5 o'clock, cross draw) but not a novice holster. Check the thread http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=4700&highlight=mic.

Hope you find a good solution.

[Willieboy]

Thanks for all your input guys. I've decided to try the Remora as a start. Seems to me I could simply open a button or two on my shirt and slip the holster into my waistband. While not technically tuckable, I hope the result will be the same. If that doesn't work out, you guys have given me a number of options and they all look promising and, fortunately, are not too expensive.

By the way, I ordered the Remora yesterday (Sunday) afternoon and received notification from PayPal the order had shipped a short time later. Shipped on a Sunday, the same day the order was placed. This is my kind of vendor.

[Sliebl]

As PM9Fan said, the Remora isn't really tuckable. You will be shocked how it stays put in your waistband with no clip. I ordered mine with the "reinforced" rim that allows for easy, one handed, reholstering. I believe these holsters ship out of Florida, so I'm sure it will only be a day or two and you'll have it.
Make sure you give us an update!

-Steve

[Willieboy]

As PM9Fan said, the Remora isn't really tuckable. You will be shocked how it stays put in your waistband with no clip. I ordered mine with the "reinforced" rim that allows for easy, one handed, reholstering. I believe these holsters ship out of Florida, so I'm sure it will only be a day or two and you'll have it.
Make sure you give us an update!

-Steve

I'll do that Steve. I plan to open a button or two on my dress shirt and slip the holster into my waistband under my shirt. Button up and I should be good to go. That should take care of the church carry issue. I ordered a Comp-Tac Infidel today. I have a handful of Comp-Tac's holsters and have always been pleased with the quality.

[Bawanna]

Another option that just popped into my head and one that I got from Jocko hisself is the 511 holster shirt. That would fill your needs perfectly. You can get them at the NRA store about as cheap as anyplace.
Its like a T shirt but has built in pockets under each armpit. There room for a Desert Eagle in there with room to spare.
They are reinforced enough that the gun don't beat ya up while moving and stuff. White or black. Seems like around 40 or 50 bucks but good stuff. Order it in a snug size, its made of that moisture wicking material so even when it's warm it should be tolerable till you get to the swimming hole to cool off.

[Willieboy]

That sounds like another good idea. A buddy of mine had a 511 sport shirt with an opening on a seam that gave access to a hidden holster. He carried a P11 in there and it was invisible.

[PaiN]

Armed "church security team".....I'm sorry to go off topic but bare with me as I am shocked to read such a thing.
Tell me about these teams....

[Bawanna]

Armed "church security team".....I'm sorry to go off topic but bare with me as I am shocked to read such a thing.
Tell me about these teams....

You make me so proud Pain. I said the same thing back on page 1. Perhaps Willie will elaborate a little bit more.
I understand it as it's an ugly world we live in lately. I'm glad they are recognizing the possiblites and taking some precautions.

[MikeyKahr]

PaiN and Bawanna45cal, Willieboy's not the only one involved. There's more than one would think and for very good reason. Churches have unfortunately been a favorite target of madmen. Google "church" and "shooting" and you'll find countless accounts of attacks on leaders and congregants. When I took my CCW and advanced shooting classes, the instructor asked if anyone in the class was a pastor or church leader. A handful of hands were raised. The instructor said he's not surprised at all and it's definitely a sign of the times, as the last half-dozen classes the instructor has taught has had at least one church leader in it seeking training for self-defense and to defend their families and congregations.

[ripley16]

Our church has a security group too. Sad reflection of the times. I've been asked to join but it's not my calling. There are scads of well armed, well trained, FBI, Marine Corps and Homeland Security types they can recruit. There have been a couple threats against the base here, Quantico, and I guess the concern has carried over into those places where lots of people gather.

[PaiN]

Sorry Bawanna..I didn't see you had asked the same question.
I understand why...I was just shocked to see "church security group" tossed nonchalantly around as if having an organized armed guard unit in your place of worship is no 'thing" at all.
It is slight shockers like this that reinforce for me how degraded our situation has become....for all of us.

[mr surveyor]

I don't know what state these guys are in that have organized armed church security teams, but I do know there are major legal issues with that here in Texas. At my church, particularly my sunday school running bunch, there are quite a few of us that never go unarmed...and would react to a "situation". The official designation, or organization of a security team would be a bit touchy.

As to the subject of carry during the "hot months".... I've been boot carrying for years. For a long time I too carried a small 380 in a clip type IWB holster, clipped into the top of my boot. When I decided the tiny 380, with it's non-existent sight radius could be a major disadvantage, I started carrying a KT PF9, then a couple years ago started stuffing the CW9 in the boot. The CW is a bit much for my boots (size 8-1/2), but I am looking forward to the CM9 as my boot gun.

The holster Tee shirt has also been on my mind for the last 5-6 years. Even to the point I was considering removing the top 2-3 buttons from my dress shirts, dummie sewing them to the button hole, and attaching velcro closures under the buttons.... fast draw action. I never did get around to that experiment.

surv

[jlottmc]

Ahh Surv, we can do just that as long as the team does not present itself as professional security, and the church doesn't post. I asked a pastor at mine years ago (my church has never posted), and he said it might well surprise you as to how many guns would be out there. I have no problems with it either. Then again, I carry there too, and if we ever put together something like that would probably be recruited. No worries.

[Kahrcw9]

Our church has a security group too. Sad reflection of the times. I've been asked to join but it's not my calling. There are scads of well armed, well trained, FBI, Marine Corps and Homeland Security types they can recruit. There have been a couple threats against the base here, Quantico, and I guess the concern has carried over into those places where lots of people gather.


Ahh Quantico.. I worked there as a contractor for 4.5 years... I worked for MCOTEA.. Marine Corps Operational Test Activity.. One of the coolest jobs you could ever ask for.. Travel got old though.. I liked the Quantico area, but there are some crazies down there as well.. Seems like lots of the marines that are in church there would be armed anyway though..

[mr surveyor]

jlottmc, I'll have to go back to the Texas CHL forum and read the discussions from a couple of years ago. We have a number of lawyers and LEO's that contribute to the discussions in Texas related firearms issues. The church things come up a lot, particularly the illinformed notion that churches were still statutorily off limits (still being perpetuated by a few instructors). The discussions on the TX forum tend to center around the legal and liability issues of having an organized group for "security" that is armed. There are a few laws on the books that can 'git ya'. I'm not a lawyer, don't want to be one.... I just read the links posted to the laws some of those folks have at their finger tips. There are quite a few church pastors and other church leaders that participate on the TexasCHL forum, and some have posted the outlines for their organized church security teams. I've been wrestling with the idea of having an organized security team at my church, but the way I understand the laws concerning firearms in the mix, I would have to opt out as I would rather be armed.

That's just my take on it with what little research I've done the last few years.


surv

[Bawanna]

Sorry Bawanna..I didn't see you had asked the same question.
I understand why...I was just shocked to see "church security group" tossed nonchalantly around as if having an organized armed guard unit in your place of worship is no 'thing" at all.
It is slight shockers like this that reinforce for me how degraded our situation has become....for all of us.

I felt exactly the same shock. Kind of a WTF moment indeed.

I would not think twice about carrying in a church but the thought of an organized security team was a surprise. They'd probably want to disarm everyone not on the team which would of course defeat the whole purpose in the first place.

Incidently I gave up church attendance when they began spending more time talking about the collection basket than church related matters.
I still read the good book of course and figure it doesn't matter if I'm in my house or his.

I have a sercurity team in my house too and it is me.

[jlottmc]

I see where you're at now surv. That's kinda why I'm glad my church never posted, and really hasn't put any effort into organizing a team. I still carry, and soon it looks like I'll be able to at work too. When that law passes, I'll give all of you a good run down on my el cheapo tuckables and a durability test to boot.

[Willieboy]

I guess it's time for me to chime in again. Let me stress first that our group of security people is entirely informal. It is not a recognized or official part of the church at this time. Church officials are looking into changing this by speaking with the appropriate government officials, insurance companies, etc.

I've been attending this church for a relatively short time and the security team was there when I got there. I learned about quite by accident. The need for it was reinforced when the son, a policeman, of one of the team members came to speak with a group concerned with church security, about attacks on Christian churches around the country. I had no idea such things were happening, but thought it not beyond the realm of possibility given the terrible things happening in the world today.

The attacks the LEO spoke of were being committed by Islamists and the focus of the attacks were the children present in the church. The LEO had, if I recall correctly, connections to anti-terrorism. I think he served on an anti-terrorism task force, but I don't really remember. In any event, he had details of these attacks.

It occurred to me I was among to a bunch of wannabe cops or people with CC licenses looking for a reason to carry their guns and feel "official" in some way. That said, I don't believe the LEO was lying to us about these incidents. I don't know where in the United States they occurred or with what frequency. I do believe our lax immigration policies and the flood of illegals coming across the border enhance our exposure. I also believe it is better to plan for what we know and prepare for what we don't know.

I would be carrying my gun to church whether there was a security team or not so, I reasoned, why not seat myself in an area of the church where I could help if the need arose.

A comment on geography and attitudes might be useful as well. I am living in the heart of the bible belt and in a very conservative part of a very conservative state. Many of the blue states hate guns, gun owners, would rather die than fight, etc. That is not the case here. These folks take these issues very seriously.

[jlottmc]

Yes we do. I have no problem carrying my weapon at church, and there is even scripture to back me on this. One thing about it since I started doing some of the maintenance there, and on what passes for my Saturday, I am especially mindful to carry when I do this. The church also has a preschool that runs through the week as well. My daughter is enrolled there, and it just happens that she is there when I'm doing my work. I figure if nothing else that is a a double whammy with it being run like a private school, and it allows me to keep a better eye on things. I hope nothing happens, but hope and prayer are not sound tactics.

[newpm9er]

I pocket carry in a Pocket concealment or hiddenholster or smart carry in the warmer weather and works quite well for me.

[Sliebl]

Willieboy,
So... what do you think of the Remora? Grippy aren't they?!

[Willieboy]

For the money I think the Remora is okay. It certainly is grippy and the pistol can be withdrawn without removing the holster from my waistband. I have also beeb able to use it in a tucked position but unbuttoning a couple of buttons on a dress shirt, inserting the holster and then rebuttoning.

I can never seem to get along with only one holster per gun and I'm glad to have the Remora as an alternative.

Thanks for the tip Sliebl.