Low and to the Left

[derAdler]

My PM9 shoots low and to the left. On the CHL renwal proficiency exercise my point of aim was the 'head' in order to place the point of impact consistently in the torso. No Problem with the re-qualification score but an entirely unsatisfactory situation. Had the PM9 checked by a qualified gunsmith. At close range, say 10-15 ft he too placed a 5 shot group two inches low and one inch off center. He suggested an adjustable rear sight to correct the problem. I suggested to return the weapon to Kahr, which I did. Kahr did an 'accuracy' check and said the PM9 checked out OK. Ammunition used - Winchester, 9mm Luger, 115 gr Full Metal Jacket. Am just getting used to the little weapon. Have fired perhaps 500 rounds (generally low and to the left).
Any comments from you out there.
der Adler
PS: With my Glock 17, point of aim is point of impact (usually!) :)

[Dozer]

After you got the results back from Kahr, did they report their own results? Did they get the same "down and to the left" point of impact? Did they inform you as to their criteria to determine that accuracy was "ok"?

[jimmer]

My PM40 also hits low 8”to 10” at 15 yards you can adjust left to right by moving front or rear sight with proper tools but up and down is not adjustable I ordered new trijicon sights today to see if that will help.

[Dragonfly]

I had the same problem with my PM9 until I added the Crimson Trace Laser front mounted model LG-347. I instinctively found myself jerking down and to the left with every squeeze of the trigger. The laser has helped me control that with my shot group much tighter and at point of aim, much like with my XD.

[1911]

When you got the gun back from Kahr, did they include the test target? A friend of mine thought he had an accuracy issue with his CW9 and sent it in to Kahr. they sent it back saying it was OK and included the target. All the holes in the target were in the right place. I shot his gun after and was very impressed with the accuracy. I have been giving my friend serious grief about not his apparent lousy shooting! ;-)

( I hope he doesnt see this post!)

[yankee2500]

It's a common problem in small grip guns with long trigger pulls, and is usually the shooter. You can always check to see if it's the gun by shooting with the gun supported by a sand bag or a block of wood with a towl on it. Try adjusting the way you grip the gun and your finger placement on the trigger.
Someone said up and down were not adjustable and that is correct with the sights you have but a taller or shorter front sight is how you change the up and down point of impact if needed.
John

[Bawanna]

I'm new so don't trust me on anything yet but I concur with 1911 and yankee2500 100 percent. Usually the shooter jerking or milking the trigger when it's low and left. I would not spend a dime on adjustable sights in this application. Just my 2 cents worth.:cool:

[NavJAG06]

Are you right- or left-handed? A common problem for right-handed shooters is trigger jerk which places shots low and left - a 7:00 or 8:00 grouping. Had the same problem when shooting my PM9 the first couple of times. Tried a great deal of dry firing that helped me with my trigger pull and the groupings are more POA than before without sight adjustments.

[PetePM9]

The only thing I can offer is that as a new PM9 owner, GLOCK user otherwise, I was very impressed with the accuracy out of the box at various distances. I have about the same amount of rounds through it and use the same ammo and expect impact to be point of aim. No offense but I have to believe what you are seeing is caused by the user. I would suggest you ask someone else to shoot it and see what happens.

[dollarguy]

Are you right- or left-handed? A common problem for right-handed shooters is trigger jerk which places shots low and left - a 7:00 or 8:00 grouping. Had the same problem when shooting my PM9 the first couple of times. Tried a great deal of dry firing that helped me with my trigger pull and the groupings are more POA than before without sight adjustments.


Same here, my right fore finger pulls my impact down and left. In my last marksmanship class the instructor had me aim and with my finger on the trigger she pressed my finger ever so slowly until it fired. Incredibly the impact was dead center in the 2" diameter target at 15 feet.

My stunned response was we were lucky! Immediately we repeated with the second impact dead center in the next 2" diameter target. It was me, it was me, it was me!

:)

[badge4436]

I have also been impressed with the accuracy of the PM9. I have shot torso sized metal targets at 50 yards consistently. Way beyond a defensive combat distance. I find it as accurate as my Glock 26.

[alnitak]

I will say that my PM9 shoots 2-3" left at 10 yards...but not low. In looking at the sights, they are off center from the factory (in the direction that would cause shooting left). I'm not the only one that has reported the sights from the factory being misaligned. I believe that if my front sites are adjusted to the center, I will be dead on.

And yes, the PM9 is far more accurate than a pocket pistol needs to be. That's part of the reason I bought it rather than a P3AT or a snubbie. If I need to make a head shot at 15 yards in a hostage situation, I have the utmost confidence in the ability of the PM9 to deliver if I do my part.

[ltxi]

Same here, my right fore finger pulls my impact down and left. In my last marksmanship class the instructor had me aim and with my finger on the trigger she pressed my finger ever so slowly until it fired. Incredibly the impact was dead center in the 2" diameter target at 15 feet.

My stunned response was we were lucky! Immediately we repeated with the second impact dead center in the next 2" diameter target. It was me, it was me, it was me!

:)

It's classic.... detach your trigger finger from your grip on the gun...otherwise you may clench and the shot (usually) goes low left. :)

[Tug Brown]

I just went out and fired today. My PM9 shoots where I point it. The biggest factor in hitting where I aim is ME ME ME!!! I anticipate too much. It was especially noticeable using my single action 45 when I tried to fire and the saftey was on. That was so telling...I have learned the truth: I'm a jerk! I mean I jerk when I pull the trigger!

When I squeeze the trigger properly - target beware.

[dollarguy]

I just went out and fired today. My PM9 shoots where I point it. The biggest factor in hitting where I aim is ME ME ME!!! I anticipate too much. It was especially noticeable using my single action 45 when I tried to fire and the saftey was on. That was so telling...I have learned the truth: I'm a jerk! I mean I jerk when I pull the trigger!

When I squeeze the trigger properly - target beware.


Amen, and well said! Presssssss that trigger so slow that you are not exactly sure when the round will fire out the barrel. (not sure an attacker will allow that to happen, but muscle memory may give you a fighting chance in the 1-3 seconds you either live, or die)

:)

[jocko]

low and lefts are right hand shooters trigger discipline errors. I am a lefty and mys hots are low and right,not the gun fellas, just kahrs looooong trigger that takes some getting used to. So typical of a true double action also.

Unlike Glocks and M & P, our kahrs are darn near 100% double action, your pulling 3/8" trigger travel by design but it has its drawbacks also, as the OP talked about.

I would not move that rear sight also without a sight pusher, as kahrs sights are just so hard to actually move with a brass punch. More than likely you will end up damaging the sight. Best advice that was given to me by a excellent shooter when I talked to him about my low and rights, was to just shoot more rounds down range and it will slowly come to you how to shoot a kahr. I didn't listen that well to him, so I bought a sight pusher and yup, moved it left to get where I wanted, then my shooting style improved, had to move it right, then my shooting style got even better, moved it some more, now it is exactly where it was when I originally started to mess with it. :confused:it:confused:

[casecloer44]

Pratice with snap caps. Or a POS pistol with hard pull. (amt backup etc.) It will help about 75% of the "shooter's fault" problem.:D

[jocko]

or better yet, buy about 6 snap caps and just throw themin with a half box of 9mm ammo and then have ur friend load the magazines for you, without your knowledge of if there are any snap caps in that magazine. Trust me,it will make a believer out of you real fast. Had my kahrs had plastic triggers, I probably would have broken then off a long time ago...

[casecloer44]

Very much agreed!

[deadhead1971]

I shoot at about 15 to 20 feet. I tilt the front sight up on the target bullseye (not 6 O'clock hold).

I am right handed.

The first time I shot the PM9, I was hitting center and about 2" to 3" left of point of aim.

The second time shooting, I hit several dead center but most hit about 2 to 3" left.

Looking at the front and rear sights and eyeballing them, I do not notice that they are off.

While dry firing, I noticed a few times I jerked down and left. My problem is recoil anticipation. I need lots of practice.

[jocko]

ur gonna shoot a kahr, one needs to practice alot. The loooong but smooth trigger is there by design, but that being said it is a real bugger to master also. If u were a good wheel gun shooter in double action mode then the kahrs should be a breeze. I never was so my techniques or should I say poor techniques just carried right over to my kahrs. (all3 of them).

I can hold at 10 yards about 8" groups with my PM9 which for meis good enough to do what I bought it for but at the same distacne my G19 will shoot 2' groups with ease. But again two totally different gun, with totally different trigger systems. Nice thing about my PM9 is that it ride sin myfront pocket 24/7 where as my G19 is my home and range gun. I won't dress to carry.

I have seen some awesome kahr group0s on other forums, so if your a shooter, a kahr willnot dissapoint you. Me being a lefty my shooer errors are always low and right, snap caps make me cry, as they show my faults BIG TIME. But they willconvince you that it is also not the guns fault either...

[jimmer]

Well with being said jocko it’s a good thing every store around has .40 ammo, I will learn the kahr trigger and have a lot of fun in the processes.

[jocko]

Well with being said jocko it’s a good thing every store around has .40 ammo, I will learn the kahr trigger and have a lot of fun in the processes.

ur right,my local wal-mart has alot of 40 cal wwb but zero 9mm or 380 in anything. The gal says when the get a 1000 rounds of 9mmin, itis gone by days end and has been that way now for 9 months. I can't find any 380 ammo locally for miles.

when I go into gandermt, I take vaseline with me for I just know they are hosing people with the prices of their ammo... wal-Mart coldhave done the same thing BUT THEY DIDN'T..

[alnitak]

I can hold at 10 yards about 8" groups with my PM9 which for meis good enough to do what I bought it for but at the same distacne my G19 will shoot 2' groups with ease.
Just FYI, I shoot 2"-3" groups off hand at 10 yards with the PM9 (the groups open up if I double-tap or empty the mag fast), and I've seen tests where the PM9 shoots 2" groups at 25 yards from the bench. It's an accurate little gun, even with the short sight radius and "snappy" recoil. As you pointed out, it won't shoot as tight of groups when shooting fast as with a service-type pistol (with longer sight radius, DA/SA trigger, barrel weight to minimize recoil, etc.), but with practice, it will be as accurate as you will ever need in a CC weapon.

[deadhead1971]

This is a follow-up to my post on page 2.

Went out and shot 100 more rds yesterday and was hitting just about dead-center point of aim at about 20-23 feet. (375 rds total through PM9). I am glad I did not mess with the sights after the 1st and 2nd outting where I was hitting left. The 3rd outting yesterday I was "in the zone."

[NavJAG06]

Proof again as I found it the hard way... the shooter ... not the pistol in most cases. Glad you are enjoying the PM9 and its accuracy.