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View Full Version : How many Lawmen use Kahr for back up or off duty.



Bawanna
05-19-2011, 05:04 PM
I've found myself wondering recently just how many officers, agents, LE folks of all flavors are using Kahr products either as back up on duty guns or off duty primary guns.

Any detectives carrying a Kahr as an on duty primary?

Chowser
05-20-2011, 07:29 AM
I just ordered a CM9 to use as a back-up gun on duty and off duty. I currently carry a Glock 33 as my back-up/off-duty (we are issued the Glock 31).

With summer approaching, I decided I wanted a true pocket gun so I ordered the CM9. I really like all the pocket .380s, but .380 is no longer an approved caliber for off-duty use. We are allowed 9mm, .40, .357, .45.

Longitude Zero
05-20-2011, 04:14 PM
CW45 off duty gun and PM45 on duty and off duty backup.

kb2wji
05-21-2011, 01:46 AM
PM9. Both for on duty backup, and off duty. he he he... duty

ultratec1
05-26-2011, 12:28 AM
CW45 some of the time, the other part of the time is XDM 45.

My on duty is a Sig 229.

Goldstar225
05-27-2011, 07:01 AM
I use my K40 as an off-duty weapon. Around here most officers don't even know that Kahr exists.

Narkcop
06-01-2011, 04:25 AM
I frequently carry a K-40 in my narcotics assignment. I also have a P-40 that I will use once I have a few more rounds thru it.

Knuckler
06-05-2011, 08:27 AM
I carried a PM9 when I did UC work.

bonjorno2
06-05-2011, 08:52 AM
p380 off duty in the pocket and when I get my new cm9 i'll carry that iwb. right now my glock 27/36 is my iwb gun.

jocko
06-05-2011, 09:43 AM
very impressive here guys,
the more that some people larn and see about kahrs I think in time will be even more popular with LEO for off duty carry or BU. I would tend to think most leo depts, lean towards 15-17 round double stack semi's. Probably why kahr is not even more popular. I hope kahrs stays out of the double stack contest to...They shoiuld continue to work hard in making their single stacks reliable, and keep the quality there, and let the double stack boys fight it out some where else..

Bawanna
06-05-2011, 09:48 AM
Kahrs would have no place in a uniformed duty officers holster but they sure make a good off duty or on duty backup gun.
I was mostly curious about plain clothes and detective types that may carry them. Some departments allow more flexiblility to those types.
I just had an officer yesterday ask me to get him a Taurus 738SS, little 380. Couple of the guys have those and they shoot good, but taking one apart friday (the guy threw the manual away of course and couldn't figure it out they are the not great quality level. Not bad but not great.
I think my guy will be getting a CM9, he doesn't know it yet but I can feel it.

jocko
06-05-2011, 10:02 AM
u should not have any problem lureing him away from that taurus to a CM9, just two total quality guns. Do u realize that to date we hv enot have one cm9 that had to go back to kahr and about 2 that even needed some tweeking and smoothing uip alittle. To me speaks highly of what kahr is sticking in the boxes today. I always put the taurus in about the same class as the kel tecs and I have been told that today taurus is now a better gun than kel tec...

Longitude Zero
06-05-2011, 10:26 AM
Bawanna my dept has just under 1200 officers and I am aware of at least 2 dozen plain clothes officers that carry Kahrs as their primary duty weapon.

I agree that a Kahr is woefully inadequate as a on duty uniformed primary weapon. As good as the Kahrs are there are SOOOO many far superior weapons for uniform carry.

jocko you are right. Kahr has a nitch market where they are. They could not hope to successfully compete in the full sized uniform carry market. Glock, Springfield Armory, S&W, SIG have that market locked up tight.

Bawanna
06-05-2011, 10:40 AM
Holy Moly, 1200 officers!:eek: We have 26 ? including 5 sgts, and 3 detectives. 1200, I'd be insane in a week. Course you probably got a ton more office pukes to deal with all the stuff too. That's big!

CS534
06-07-2011, 02:55 PM
just picked up the Cm9 for back up/ off-duty use. If my new holster comes in by Friday I will be using it for my Off-duty security detail

green02crew
06-13-2011, 09:14 AM
I carry my PM9 IWB off duty and in pocket holster as a backup when on duty.

Bawanna
06-13-2011, 09:22 AM
We have two officers with PM9s the DLC. They have had them probably close to 2 years now. Neither officer did any prep, not sure they even cleaned them before they took them up shot a little and did a qual.
Neither has had any mentioned issues. They are carried for on duty backup and off duty.
I'm not sure either has 300 rounds thru it yet. I sometimes worry if they have shot them enough to be reliable but apparently they are confident in them so I try to keep my worries to myself.

Sadly I failed to talk this latest officer out of the Taurus for a CM. He had it in his head thats' what he wants. He's an idiot but also a good friend. I know friends shouldn't let friends do stuff like this but I did the best I could.

deadhead1971
06-13-2011, 10:56 AM
:behindsofa: Well, now I know who the LEOs are on this forum...

A little off-topic, but some of you guys might find this interesting. Even "the best" may not be. http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/02/06/971004/ales-pricey-guns-prove-unreliable.html

Bawanna
06-13-2011, 11:07 AM
:behindsofa: Well, now I know who the LEOs are on this forum...

A little off-topic, but some of you guys might find this interesting. Even "the best" may not be. http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/02/06/971004/ales-pricey-guns-prove-unreliable.html

Hmm, me thinks a little hinky pinky is going on there. Sigs used up in like 5 years? Funny the director didn't have any issues with his Kimber and many bought them even though they were unreliable. Wonder if those were from the old external extractor days that Kimber suffered thru. Might be.

deadhead1971
06-13-2011, 11:24 AM
some of those exact same Kimbers (3" and 4") are at a local shop. I have held one. They are selling for $1,250 plus tax. Ouch. Too much. This particulat shop is not a Kimber dealer. They got the guns in a deal / trade. When I asked them about the history, they had no clue. Also, I asked to see one of the 3" models (ultra), and the guy behind the counter said, which ones are they. I had to point out the ultra. Red flag. I ended up with a Kimber Raptor from another shop. I'll post my review in the appropriate thread maybe later.

OldLincoln
06-13-2011, 11:25 AM
Since others have outed themselves.... I carry a PM9 as my covert weapon. I liked another brand for a long time but M insisted I give it a try. It proved itself when I was jumped by a battalion of hostels and held them off with the 6 round mag M had modified to grow additional rounds until I could activate the rocket pack I carried in my back pocket.

Since then I wouldn't part with my PM9, no matter how hard Moneypenny tries to seduce it away from me.

Lincoln.... Old Lincoln :rolleyes:

Bawanna
06-13-2011, 11:29 AM
Shaken, not stirred.

Sgt01
06-27-2011, 03:21 PM
My PM9 shares off duty time with my M&P 340, IWB or in a pocket, during warmer weather. Mostly carry a Glock 26 or Glock 23 during cooler weather in paddle or belt slide holsters.

DKD
06-27-2011, 04:49 PM
I'm not a LEO, but my brother in law is.....hey that reminds me that I once slept in a Holiday Inn Suites once...
Any way, I try and carry either my PM45 or Kimber Ultra raptor as my promary withmy PM9 in my rt front pcket holster, and somtines either a BU of a Sig 238 or my little NAA "PUG" 22 magnum in my left front pocket. The only problem I have now is keeping my britches up wher they belong.....????
Sooo many fine guns and soooo little time.

Bawanna
06-27-2011, 04:52 PM
Thats the sad thing, you carry one, you wanna carry em all.

I sort of have my own version of no child left behind but you reach a point where its just too much to carry.

JFootin
06-27-2011, 05:09 PM
I'm not a LEO, but my brother in law is.....hey that reminds me that I once slept in a Holiday Inn Suites once...
Any way, I try and carry either my PM45 or Kimber Ultra raptor as my promary withmy PM9 in my rt front pcket holster, and somtines either a BU of a Sig 238 or my little NAA "PUG" 22 magnum in my left front pocket. The only problem I have now is keeping my britches up wher they belong.....????
Sooo many fine guns and soooo little time.

Have you tried suspenders?

BBSky
06-27-2011, 06:01 PM
:behindsofa: Well, now I know who the LEOs are on this forum...

A little off-topic, but some of you guys might find this interesting. Even "the best" may not be. http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/02/06/971004/ales-pricey-guns-prove-unreliable.html

Seeems NC ALE doesn't get it...what just a couple of years ago they suffered all kind of scorn because they had spent a bundle on SIG assualt rifles for every officer when the NC State Patrol didn't even have them.
Now who would you think needs it more...hmmm.

http://www.raleighgawker.com/north-carolina-ale-*******-central

Well the censor got me- replace the ******* above with the common term for a dumb donkey, 7 letters:angel:
Ya'll gotta go read it especially the part about securing their weapons with their handcuffs cause they kept getting stolen out of their unlocked cars....then one shoots himself putting the cuffs on his gun, whereby they were then instructed to unload them first:2eek:

Suthrncop66
07-09-2011, 03:44 AM
pm 40 for off duty carry..had an xdsc but prefer the kahr....carry a sig 238 to back the kahr but thinking of going to a pm9 for a off duty back up

mser
07-09-2011, 08:01 PM
PM9 and/or P380 as backup and off duty.

JFootin
07-09-2011, 08:05 PM
CM9, and you'll have enough money left over to buy an IWB and a pocket holster for it. Plus, 9mm is a much more potent round than 380.

skater4790
07-09-2011, 08:11 PM
I carry a PM9 in a Mitch Rosen OWB holster for off duty.

chovyman
07-19-2011, 07:59 PM
pm 45 daily with two etra mags and a p380 :) good stuff

hotpig
07-20-2011, 09:50 AM
CW 9 off duty, some on duty.

Jackalope33b
07-24-2011, 10:17 AM
Just curious...
I see alot of LEO's are carying .45's and 9's while off duty, and some as back up weapons. To each is own. I would think you would want something smaller and lighter like a .380? Any reason you guys are not carrying the Kahr P380?

jocko
07-24-2011, 10:22 AM
whenI can carrymy PM9 in 95% of the same plceson my body, why go down in caliber. The P38 which I have is small but so is my PM9..

jocko
07-24-2011, 10:22 AM
when I can carry my PM9 in 95% of the same plaeces on my body, why go down in caliber. The P380 which I have is small but so is my PM9..

Longitude Zero
07-24-2011, 10:51 AM
From professional experince I have alway looked at the 380 as what you carry when you don't really want to carry a gun...Many small 9's and 45's are only marginally bigger.

I would not trust my life to a 380. PERIOD A 380 is only margnially useful as a last ditch contact weapon. I have seen WAY too MANY 380s fail to penetrate heavy clothing, heck I know an officer that thankfully had a 380 bounce off his hard head with nary more than a scratch. And it was a direct on frontal hit not a glancing blow.

I cannot slam the 380 as a self defense round enough. Sorry but thats my experience.

jfsjr66
07-28-2011, 06:38 PM
This is ony a portion of the article the rest wouldn't fit
.25ACP-

# of people shot- 68
# of hits- 150
% of hits that were fatal- 25%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 2.2
% of people who were not incapacitated- 35%
One-shot-stop %- 30%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 62%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 49%

.22 (short, long and long rifle)
# of people shot- 154
# of hits- 213
% of hits that were fatal- 34%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 1.38
% of people who were not incapacitated- 31%
One-shot-stop %- 31%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 76%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 60%

.32 (both .32 long and .32 acp)
# of people shot- 25
# of hits- 38
% of hits that were fatal- 21%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 1.52
% of people who were not incapacitated- 40%
One-shot-stop %- 40%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 78%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 72%

.380 ACP
# of people shot- 85
# of hits- 150
% of hits that were fatal- 29%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 1.76
% of people who were not incapacitated- 16%
One-shot-stop %- 44%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 76%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 62%

.38 Special
# of people shot- 199
# of hits- 373
% of hits that were fatal- 29%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 1.87
% of people who were not incapacitated- 17%
One-shot-stop %- 39%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 76%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 55%

9mm Luger
# of people shot- 456
# of hits- 1121
% of hits that were fatal- 24%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 2.45
% of people who were not incapacitated- 13%
One-shot-stop %- 34%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 74%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 47%

.357 (both magnum and Sig)
# of people shot- 105
# of hits- 179
% of hits that were fatal- 34%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 1.7
% of people who were not incapacitated- 9%
One-shot-stop %- 44%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 81%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 61%

.40 S&W
# of people shot- 188
# of hits- 443
% of hits that were fatal- 25%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 2.36
% of people who were not incapacitated- 13%
One-shot-stop %- 45%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 76%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 52%

.45 ACP
# of people shot- 209
# of hits- 436
% of hits that were fatal- 29%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 2.08
% of people who were not incapacitated- 14%
One-shot-stop %- 39%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 85%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 51%

.44 Magnum
# of people shot- 24
# of hits- 41
% of hits that were fatal- 26%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 1.71
% of people who were not incapacitated- 13%
One-shot-stop %- 59%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 88%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 53%

Rifle (all Centerfire)
# of people shot- 126
# of hits- 176
% of hits that were fatal- 68%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 1.4
% of people who were not incapacitated- 9%
One-shot-stop %- 58%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 81%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 80%




Shotgun (All, but 90% of results were 12 gauge)

# of people shot- 146
# of hits- 178
% of hits that were fatal- 65%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 1.22
% of people who were not incapacitated- 12%
One-shot-stop %- 58%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 84%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 86%

Bawanna
07-28-2011, 08:16 PM
Just curious...
I see alot of LEO's are carying .45's and 9's while off duty, and some as back up weapons. To each is own. I would think you would want something smaller and lighter like a .380? Any reason you guys are not carrying the Kahr P380?

Many departments don't allow 380's for back up or off duty. I've heard of a few recently (rumor only) that used to allow them but no longer do.
Mine does allow them. So far we have 3 of the Taurus 380's. A couple PM9's (wonder who recommended that) and the vast majority are using G30's for backup and off duty since our issue 21's mags will interchange.

I got no use for a 380 myself and very little use for a 9 but thats just my personal mindset. Many are perfectly confident with a 9 and that's perfectly fine, confidence in your chosen weapon is what it's all about.

Barth
07-28-2011, 09:07 PM
Many departments don't allow 380's for back up or off duty. I've heard of a few recently (rumor only) that used to allow them but no longer do.
Mine does allow them. So far we have 3 of the Taurus 380's. A couple PM9's (wonder who recommended that) and the vast majority are using G30's for backup and off duty since our issue 21's mags will interchange.

I got no use for a 380 myself and very little use for a 9 but thats just my personal mindset. Many are perfectly confident with a 9 and that's perfectly fine, confidence in your chosen weapon is what it's all about.

I used to train in martial arts with some Hillsborough county sheriffs (Florida).
Some of them used Sig Sauer P232 .380 as back up. But it seemed more common for people to use compact versions of their service weapons in the same caliber. Particularly Glocks where various models could share mags.

Gunthr
07-31-2011, 11:37 AM
Hey fellers, Gunthr checking in here from South Florida. I have the K9 Elite... I really dig this gun, but I had second thoughts about not getting the K40. I figured there'd be a substantial difference in conceal-ability. But I'm good with the K9, fast followupshots, I'm keeping it. My impression is that Kahrs 9mm and above are on the approved list for most agencies down here that require approval in their P & P. For me, the glock 26 and 27's were just a little too blocky .... I was afraid I'd start leaving it home.

echo2011
08-03-2011, 06:16 AM
Glock 35 Duty Weapon

Glock 26/ Kahr CW9 Off-Duty

AJChenMPH
08-04-2011, 09:27 AM
Holy Moly, 1200 officers!:eek: We have 26 ? including 5 sgts, and 3 detectives. 1200, I'd be insane in a week.
You obviously haven't looked up NYPD's strength recently. ;) Try 35,000 officers (give or take).

Friend of mine is a plain-clothes street cop in NYPD, and he carries a K9 on duty -- except he was grandfathered in, NYPD no longer authorizes any Kahr pistol (that I'm aware of) for on- or off-duty carry.

Bawanna
08-04-2011, 09:34 AM
You obviously haven't looked up NYPD's strength recently. ;) Try 35,000 officers (give or take).

Friend of mine is a plain-clothes street cop in NYPD, and he carries a K9 on duty -- except he was grandfathered in, NYPD no longer authorizes any Kahr pistol (that I'm aware of) for on- or off-duty carry.

I have a hard time remembering the names of my 30 guys. I wonder how many precincts those 35,000 officers are spread out in, still has to be a lot of guys in each one.
Course NYPD probably has 1000 guys like me to deal with their needs and clean up after them. Gotta be tough working with that many guys, course they are probably broken down into groups where they know many of the others at least. I would hope.
I laughed at a Sgt at a nearby city, his wife works here, he said when you see a guy in a uniform getting into a police car (with a key) that you've not met or don't know, you know the dept is getting too big.
Guess he's never been to New York either........

SGT45
09-12-2011, 08:05 PM
Glock 37 on duty

PM9 off duty

josp
09-23-2011, 08:37 PM
Plainclothes. G37 and PM9 on duty, usually just the mini off duty, but I've been known to carry both depending on where I'm going.

Narkcop
11-13-2011, 06:03 AM
From professional experince I have alway looked at the 380 as what you carry when you don't really want to carry a gun...Many small 9's and 45's are only marginally bigger.

I would not trust my life to a 380. PERIOD A 380 is only margnially useful as a last ditch contact weapon. I have seen WAY too MANY 380s fail to penetrate heavy clothing, heck I know an officer that thankfully had a 380 bounce off his hard head with nary more than a scratch. And it was a direct on frontal hit not a glancing blow.

I cannot slam the 380 as a self defense round enough. Sorry but thats my experience.

A .380 bounced off a hard head. :rolleyes:

KoBear
11-14-2011, 10:40 PM
Springfield xd .45 on duty

Kahr pm9 off duty

NJ

MikeyKahr
11-14-2011, 11:08 PM
A .380 bounced off a hard head. :rolleyes:

Hey that's the face I made when I read that too!

Sent using Tapatalk

LonChaney
12-24-2011, 10:45 PM
CW9 Covert as a backup on duty and K9 off duty.

WPPD574
01-09-2012, 11:35 PM
On Duty: Glock 22, CW9 in my vest and a P30 in my cargo pocket

Off Duty; CW9 and 2 Mags, P380 and 1 mag

Never less than 2 guns on me!

kayl
01-10-2012, 11:15 AM
On Duty: P229, no backups allowed :(

Off Duty: CM9 or 442

I'm starting a new job this spring, then on duty will be S&W M&P .40, back up will be M&P.40c :)

Of course I'll still carry the CM9 off duty!

dirtkicker
01-11-2012, 02:59 PM
On duty Glock23. No backups allowed.
Off duty Glock26 switching to CM9. Both w/CT.

DeaconKC
02-07-2012, 08:41 PM
PF9 for off duty, Parole Agent in Illinois.
Glock 23 on duty.

Sgt01
02-09-2012, 09:17 PM
PM9 for off-duty carry.

Retops
02-10-2012, 09:27 PM
I work with police as a consultant now that I am retired. Recently worked with a detective in a small Oklahoma department that carried an MK9 on and off duty. Another detective, in a different department was carrying a K40 on duty and an MK9 off duty.

CJB
02-11-2012, 07:59 AM
Bawanna my dept has just under 1200 officers and I am aware of at least 2 dozen plain clothes officers that carry Kahrs as their primary duty weapon.

Just catchin' up on all this...

Thinking about it some, Bawanna. My dad carried a blue Chiefs as his ISSUE handgun, for Suffolk County, for over 20 years. That was a long while ago - he retired in 1975 after 25 years service, about 23 of them plain clothes (if you call it that).

I can't see any reason not to carry a Kahr in that same function. Certainly the .40 or .45 PM models have an advantage over any .38 Special, and the PM9 is certainly no worse. None of them that much difference in size from the Chief's, even an Airweight Chiefs has no distinct weight advantage.

Total agreement for uniformed carry too, there are much better alternatives out there for open carry on a standard gunbelt - Glock, and Smith M&P seem to be the dominant players for the right reasons - technical, logistical, and political.

CJB
02-11-2012, 08:06 AM
Still reading....

I see some departments don't allow back up while on duty? Whats the premise for that? Its got to be political....

And, reading even more, I can't find the reason NYPD has disallowed ANY Kahr pistols from being used as backup. Whats goin on with that?

JFootin
02-11-2012, 09:40 AM
Still reading....

I see some departments don't allow back up while on duty? Whats the premise for that? Its got to be political....

And, reading even more, I can't find the reason NYPD has disallowed ANY Kahr pistols from being used as backup. Whats goin on with that?

Yeah really! :mad: The Glock trigger isn't as safe as the Kahr.

TriggerMan
02-11-2012, 09:55 AM
We have two officers with PM9s the DLC. They have had them probably close to 2 years now. Neither officer did any prep, not sure they even cleaned them before they took them up shot a little and did a qual.
Neither has had any mentioned issues. They are carried for on duty backup and off duty.
I'm not sure either has 300 rounds thru it yet. I sometimes worry if they have shot them enough to be reliable but apparently they are confident in them so I try to keep my worries to myself.

Sadly I failed to talk this latest officer out of the Taurus for a CM. He had it in his head thats' what he wants. He's an idiot but also a good friend. I know friends shouldn't let friends do stuff like this but I did the best I could.
My brand new Taurus .22 PLY is perfectly fabulous! It's Yellow & Black and makes me feel witty and gay!:o Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Seriously, I wouldn't use any Taurus for any thing critical. With discounts LEOs get, I'm surprised one wouldn't stick to a major American, German or Austrian brand.

Retlawman590
02-11-2012, 10:58 AM
Around here only a few. They mostly always buy Glocks and Kel-tecs (:der:). A few buy Sigs and some older cops have J frame revolvers.

Cokeman
02-11-2012, 11:08 AM
My brand new Taurus .22 PLY is perfectly fabulous! It's Yellow & Black and makes me feel witty and gay!:o Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Seriously, I wouldn't use any Taurus for any thing critical. With discounts LEOs get, I'm surprised one wouldn't stick to a major American, German or Austrian brand.

It does?

Retlawman590
02-11-2012, 11:09 AM
From professional experince I have alway looked at the 380 as what you carry when you don't really want to carry a gun...Many small 9's and 45's are only marginally bigger.

I would not trust my life to a 380. PERIOD A 380 is only margnially useful as a last ditch contact weapon. I have seen WAY too MANY 380s fail to penetrate heavy clothing, heck I know an officer that thankfully had a 380 bounce off his hard head with nary more than a scratch. And it was a direct on frontal hit not a glancing blow.

I cannot slam the 380 as a self defense round enough. Sorry but thats my experience.

I agree, plenty of LEO carry the Kel Tec P3AT here off duty, even in the winter. I remember years ago I carried a J frame .38 with heavy loaded +P, a spare speedloader and always felt under-gunned. I guess its different around here (Metro NY), where most LEO have never even touched a gun until the academy. I went through firearms training as a nuclear plant security guard before LEO and that was my first time. Guys seem to pack heavy heat when they first get on the job though, but as the years go by, the guns get smaller.:)

Longitude Zero
02-11-2012, 12:05 PM
Still reading....

I see some departments don't allow back up while on duty? Whats the premise for that? Its got to be political....

I too have never understood that. When I hired on my dept required your backup to be the exact same weapon as your primary issue. That was a model 65 so where was I going to stuff a second model 65. Fortunately after a new chief came in that changed quickly. However my dept has ALWAYS banned 1911 cocked and locked an still does. Even for off duty carry.

In fact after Glock hit it big many other depts in my area banned cocked and locked 1911 carry.

Bawanna
02-11-2012, 12:17 PM
In our area 1911's were pretty much universally not allowed. In the last year or two they are being accepted more and more. We aren't allowed them for uniform duty but detectives carry them and we have at least one officer carrying a 1911 in a vest holster.

Many of the county deputies have gone 1911 after they were approved.

It used to be a lot of public perception, the hammer back was intimidating (ya think) I think also everyone wants to do what LA Swat does so they gotta be good. Police copy military in most areas too.

jlottmc
02-11-2012, 01:17 PM
You have no problem with a 1911 on a belt for an officer, what about a T/TP series especially a TP45? I wouldn't feel at all disadvantaged with one on my hip. There are several departments around here that don't care what you carry on duty or off as long as it is .380 or bigger. I would have no problem carrying a Kahr that I know to be reliable in any fashion, I know that there are also some security types that allow Kahrs to be on their belts (Bell Helicopters comes to mind).

Sap
02-19-2012, 04:55 PM
K9 off duty
Sig 226 .40 on duty

I know a few guys that carry kahrs off duty

Bawanna
02-19-2012, 06:59 PM
We now have 4 PM9's in the dept for off duty and/or backup and my PM45 that no one knows about. A detective just got a PM9 last week.

Another is talking a CM9 but so far he hasn't went for it.

SGT405
03-07-2012, 05:45 PM
CW40 for backup.

CinBrandon
03-07-2012, 08:56 PM
I have no LE experience. But my brother-in-law is a federal special agent with department of state. He's qualified with the PM9 and carries it as Back-up and off duty.

Also, I bought my PM9 from a sheriff deputy. it was his BUG. He was just trading up to PM40 to match his free ammo from his department.

SGT405
03-11-2012, 01:08 PM
Just added a PM9 to go a little smaller.

bulldog62
05-20-2012, 07:22 PM
PM9 or CW40 off duty

Dogman
05-28-2012, 05:18 PM
Since I'm off duty every day (retired) I carry my PM9 more than all my other guns put together. I know a couple of the officers in the area have gotten PM9's for back up and off duty.

sas PM9
05-29-2012, 08:20 AM
PM9 off duty now; with 147gr Ranger Bonded or "T"'s.
Star Firestar 40S&W previously; with 180gr HP's.
Charter Arms SS 2" snubby previous to that; with 158gr fmj.
Charter Arms 3" Bulldog 44S&W originally; with 240gr SWC.

Most accurate for me is the PM9 with the Bulldog close behind.

-steve

Motor51
07-05-2012, 07:06 PM
I'm new to the forum and actually joined due to purchasing a PM9 for off duty carry.

jocko
07-05-2012, 07:10 PM
if u haven't shot it yet,m indeed go to the kahr tech section abd hit on two good stickyjs

#1 lahr lube chart

#23 propper prepping of ur kahr.


welcome aboard, prep it right and it will never let you donw. IMO u bought the best.

Motor51
07-05-2012, 07:52 PM
if u haven't shot it yet,m indeed go to the kahr tech section abd hit on two good stickyjs

#1 lahr lube chart

#23 propper prepping of ur kahr.


welcome aboard, prep it right and it will never let you donw. IMO u bought the best.

Thanks man, I have already took the necessary steps and shot the heck out of it. It has been flawless so far and feels right at home in my pocket.

Redstate
07-22-2012, 09:19 AM
A detective buddy of mine carries the K9 that I sold to him about 3 or so years ago. I regret selling it, and when i see him with it on his hip. I want it back. He won't sell it back to me.

chovyman
08-21-2012, 10:48 PM
Pm 45 back-up off duty p380 for pocket gun. Light accurate reliable!

QasoSwat
09-09-2012, 11:07 AM
I just purchased a PM 45 to carry off-duty, but the PM45 and I are still working the kinks out.

golddot
10-22-2012, 03:23 PM
Hi fellas, I just purchased mine, (CW9) and really like it, i would like to have a nice melt job and some polishing done, but i dont want teh down time of shipping it back to factory..(13 yrs on the job now in NE Texas)

pudge
10-26-2012, 04:48 PM
It's been a while since I've carried both a handgun and a badge, but I did so for many years. I don't carry a badge these days. I'm old enough that the issue sidearm was a revolver in those days. I realize that Kahr is probably not in a position to supply the number of firearms necessary to compete in the "take the lowest bid" market for most issue firearms these days. Sadly, the lowest cost has dictated issue weapons in far too many cases, instead of what would really be the best one for the job at hand. Not always, of course, but in some.

I will tell you that I personally would have absolutely no problem with the P45 or the larger framed TP45 as a full time uniform duty weapon. I've not fired the larger one, but have quite a bit of experience with the P45. I have found no reason at all to feel that I'd be inadequately or less than excellently armed with the P45. Then again, I managed to get by nicely without lights mounted on handguns and other such things. I'm not sayin those things are bad or are not of much value in some situtations. I'm just sayin' that day in and day out, they are not necessarily necessary. I can say that I wish I'd had the option of carrying the polymer Kahr (or some other polymer framed lighter weight weapon) around all day long every day. My P45 is easier to handle and fire than any steel framed revolver I ever carried, and easier than some of the lightweight ones available then and now. And another thing on a personal note, .... I know they work and work pretty well, but I wouldn't trade my Kahrs for a pickup load of Glocks and a few other striker fired handguns. Just my opinion ...

Bawanna
10-26-2012, 04:53 PM
Don't take this in any kind of mano mano way you understand, but I think I love you pudge.

Sometimes old school is the best school and I don't say that just cause it's the only school I ever went to. Still ain't graduated but I'm working on it.

I did graduate high school but that diploma wasn't worth the paper it was wrote on.

I was class VP in the school of hard knocks though for what tiny little bit that might be worth.

1R26
10-28-2012, 06:52 PM
I just purchased a CM9 for off-duty carry. It's my first Kahr and I've run a couple of hundred rounds thru it and so far its been great. I've carried a 3PAT for several years and it too is a good little gun...never a hicup. I just wanted a little more umph. I also just ordered a PJ holster after a recomendation from a fellow member and am going to install night sights. I have been carrying a 38 body guard as a backup but may switch to the Kahr. It's really a great feeling and great shooting little peice!

nyc71
10-29-2012, 08:01 PM
Off duty:
CM9, M&P 45c, & around the house LCP.

dp509
12-15-2012, 02:05 AM
I have a CW9 for sale. :D

No issues, great gun, just thinning the herd.

I carry a PM9 in a Galco ankle holster on duty and in a Uncle Mike's pocket holster off duty. I carry a spare 7 round magazine in my weak side pocket on duty and off duty.

I went from a S & W 442 to the PM9.

The S & W is available for sale also. :D

Guns will not be shipped.

I have owned several Kahr's over the years and have had excellent serivce out of all of them.

The most accurate was a P40. I outshot our top shooter at 25 yards with it. He was using a Kimber 1911. Boy were we suprised. :eek:

RRP
12-15-2012, 02:21 AM
I have a CW9 for sale. :D
~
The S & W is available for sale also. :D

Guns will not be shipped.
~

It might be helpful if you gave some hint of your location, if you are unwilling to ship. State?

eireguy
12-15-2012, 07:51 AM
Looked through his post's, if i'm not mistaken he is in Alabama

WMac19
02-01-2013, 09:53 AM
When I left the NYPD a couple of years ago, I'd only known a handful of guys using a Kahr for a back-up. But the reason is two-fold. One, NYPD officers were only approved to carry .38 and 9mm, on or off-duty Second, Kahr was removed from the department's recommended firearms list.

I never did hear of an official answer as to why but two different dept instructor buddies theorized that the department didn't trust officers following the recommended break-in. Although it's vital practice to break-in any pistol, the manufacturer's clear statement along with the accepted fact that most city cops would not do it, may have been the reason.

I can't tell you how many buddies take their new pistol out of the box and onto their person without ever firing a round down range. Just at a friend's wake yesterday, two recently retired guys admitted to just that with what they were carrying ( LCP and Bodyguard .380).

I never did dig too deep so if anyone knows a different reason, I'd be interested to hear it.

jocko
02-01-2013, 10:20 AM
I also was told that NYPFD told kahr they wanted a 13" strker and kahr said no, More political than anything as the gun has been approved for years with the NYPD trigger and now they wanted to up the striker spring to be I guess what ever glocks are, I might beoff on that, it could have been uped to 11#, but eihter way I was told kahr said NO and that was it... Probably somewhere between what WMac19 is saying and what I am stating is the truth. Our local Police was carrying reloads up until about ayear ago when concerned citizens foud out about it and then pooled some money for them to have good stuff, For me if ur gonna tell me to carry reloads or thatis all the dept cvan afford, then surely if I was a cop and felt like I wante dthe best I could cough up enough bucks to buy at leat a box of defense stuff to carry. Its my life not the chiefs who is behid the desk eating krispy creams or dunkin donuts.. Just sayin

Bawanna
02-01-2013, 10:23 AM
I too can attest to this. I have several officer who's new gun goes straight from box to where ever they carry it.

They do have to do a minimal qualification that's far too easy and only about a a dozen rounds to be officially blessed. But many carry them prior to the official ok.

Totally foreign to me. Can't imagine carrying a gun that I don't even know if it works.

Again, most officers are not gun guys. It's a just a tool they are required to wear like a carpenters hammer.

Longitude Zero
02-01-2013, 10:43 AM
I never carried any weapon, CCW, duty, backup, deep cover before I get at least 500 rounds thru it. The last 250 had better be trouble free or no go.

jocko
02-01-2013, 10:57 AM
but u also have some brains to. there is a difference IMO

Bawanna
02-01-2013, 11:01 AM
I never carried any weapon, CCW, duty, backup, deep cover before I get at least 500 rounds thru it. The last 250 had better be trouble free or no go.

That's me to a T as well with any gun I ever plan to carry. It's been increasing difficult with ammo expensive and hard to find.
Many of my guns have never had factory ammo thru them except for the factory carry stuff. If I get 500 perfect without failure on my reloads and 4 to 6 boxes of the carry stuff with no issue, I consider it good to go.

jocko
02-01-2013, 11:09 AM
u mean u can actually reload 45's???? Wow what next???

JFootin
02-01-2013, 11:13 AM
I also was told that NYPFD told kahr they wanted a 13" strker and kahr said no, More political than anything as the gun has been approved for years with the NYPD trigger and now they wanted to up the striker spring to be I guess what ever glocks are, I might beoff on that, it could have been uped to 11#, but eihter way I was told kahr said NO and that was it... Probably somewhere between what WMac19 is saying and what I am stating is the truth... Just sayin

You know, I've seen many stories and videos of accidental and negligent discharges and they always seem to happen with Glocks. I cannot remember ever seeing anything involving a Kahr. Just sayin'.

SGT5711
08-13-2013, 04:32 PM
Glock 17 Gen 4 on duty

Off duty - K9 or P380. Previously I had a Glock 26 and Ruger LCP, but I sold both of those once I found Kahr Arms.

JimC
08-14-2013, 05:50 AM
You know, I've seen many stories and videos of accidental and negligent discharges and they always seem to happen with Glocks. I cannot remember ever seeing anything involving a Kahr. Just sayin'.

One reason is that there are far more Glock pistols in use in LE than Kahr.

ADs or NDs with Glock pistols for the most part in LE are due to poor or improper training and LEOs that fail to pay attention to what they are taught.

When I was with my old PD, we put 10's of thousands of rounds downrange thru our G19s w/o a single mishap. I believe they still have that kind of excellent safety record.

tedk
09-25-2014, 09:44 AM
I carry either my CW380 or PM9 depending on uniform as my backup gun. When working plain clothes details I carry my P9 more often than my duty gun. Just bought a CT9 that I keep in the car all have been flawless at the range.

EvanLee
11-04-2014, 09:44 PM
I am a police officer on a 2 year college campus. We don't have a ton of activity, but we do have our share of crimes.

On duty, I carry the department issue Glock 22. But whenever the campus is closed, like for all the various holidays, spring break, fall break, Thanksgiving (3 days) and Christmas break (2 weeks) I carry my Kahr CT45 in a Desantis Yaqui slide holster along with a spare mag and cuffs in a Bianchi model 45 mag/cuff paddle.


My Kahr CW380 rides in my right front pocket whenever I am vertical.

Bawanna
11-04-2014, 11:19 PM
CT 45? Why doesn't that sound right to me?

EvanLee
11-05-2014, 07:08 AM
CT 45? Why doesn't that sound right to me?

What doesn't sound right about it? I've always been a big fan of the .45ACP cartridge.

berettabone
11-05-2014, 07:41 AM
They should have called it the FP45............................................fl ying plates:)

EvanLee
11-05-2014, 07:56 AM
They should have called it the FP45............................................fl ying plates:)

I still don't get it. Mine is dead nuts reliable and more accurate than I am.

Why all the derogatory comments and mud slinging? :confused:

Bawanna
11-05-2014, 09:05 AM
Not derogatory comments at all, I am a 45 guy through and through. I guess I just wasn't aware that they made the CT in 45.

I think I had T series in my head and they only make those in 9 and 40?

I'd love a T 45 and a K45 and a MK45.

CT is a tupperware T right? Full size. Why didn't I know that.

Bawanna
11-05-2014, 09:09 AM
You don't mean a TP 45 by chance do ya? I still don't see a CT 45.

BEARDOG
11-05-2014, 11:27 AM
You don't mean a TP 45 by chance do ya? I still don't see a CT 45.

Here it is Col B.
Dang Kahrs are getting like Glocks trying to keep all the models straight LOL .It is the value model of the TP45.
http://www.kahr.com/Pistols/Kahr-CT45.asp

EvanLee
11-05-2014, 11:52 AM
Yeah, on a cop's salary, I can't afford a TP45.

But this CT45 is all kinds of awesome!

Bawanna
11-05-2014, 11:56 AM
That's good info. On my cop office puke salary I can't afford a TP neither.

This model slipped in on me without notice, funny I didn't see it on the web site when I looked, hence the confused what the heck attitude which really wasn't an attitude really, more just confusion on my part.

I still want a T45 but I no doubt can't afford that either.

EvanLee
11-05-2014, 02:50 PM
That's good info. On my cop office puke salary I can't afford a TP neither.

This model slipped in on me without notice, funny I didn't see it on the web site when I looked, hence the confused what the heck attitude which really wasn't an attitude really, more just confusion on my part.

I still want a T45 but I no doubt can't afford that either.

Nah! No worries. No harm no foul. :biggrin1:

Yeah, whenever you get the means, you really should pick up one of these CT45s. She's a goodun! :cheer2:

CPL88
11-30-2014, 09:06 AM
I carry either my Kahr PM9, MK9 or K9 off duty.

I carry a Seecamp 32acp On duty/Off duty as a BUG

Sheepdog689
11-30-2014, 07:19 PM
My CM9 is my summer/warm weather off duty carry. I carry my Glock 38 whenever I wear a jacket or coat. Used to carry a Ruger LCP or Glock 39 in warm weather - that was until I got the CM9.

Antarius
12-02-2014, 01:44 AM
I do. For both.

HAP1978
12-11-2014, 09:12 PM
It's nice to see officers carrying Kahr's on and off duty. I've owned multiple brands since I was the ripe young age of 21 and Kahr's are one of my favorites. Glocks are good guns but could never get used to holding the 2x4.

Bawanna, are you an officer?

GA_Sheepdog
02-10-2015, 05:47 PM
I used a Kahr CW45 back before I sold it. I didn't actually use it as a back up on my body. I would put it in my patrol car and mainly used it in case someone was to approach me while I was sitting in my car and wasn't able to get out. It was a lot easier to pull out of my duty bag then try and pull my duty weapon out of my holster while seated.


I purchased a CW380 yesterday but have to qualify with it before I can carry on duty again.

CeltKnight
03-06-2015, 12:40 PM
My first Kahr (K-40 Covert) was bought as a BUG/OD piece. Served me well but I wanted lighter. So, after much deliberation and experimentation I bought a PM-40. I carried it both OD and as a BUG until I retired just over a year ago. A local tiny town talked me into working for them part time on their 6-man police force and I joined part-time. I carry that PM-40, usually in an outside pocket of my body armor (we wear external vests there ... BLOODY hot in South AL!). I recently bought a CW380 (wife had me pick out my Anniversary present :D ). I carry it as an "Always Gun" and it will likely be my hot-weather BUG at least for court and whatnot.

My current "ready-to-go" pistols are all three of the above mentioned Kahrs, a Glock 26 (bedside gun with a 19 round mag for things that may go bump in the night), and a "Commander" size 1911.

I made a kydex-on-leather pocket holster for my CW380 and had an old front-pocket card wallet which holds two spare 6-rounds mags and my AL Retired LEO Permit, qualification card, copy of DL, and a charge card (I sometimes forget my wallet great goober that I can be sometimes). No, I may not "NEED" 12 spare rounds, but mags fail, mags get dropped during reloading, stuff happens, and ... well since I'm an LEO again (part-time is still 100% sworn with all that whole "duty to respond" thing) one just never knows. One Active Shooter class will convince most folks to have at least one spare mag (even the training guns' mags can break).

Whatever else I may wear (often it's the K-40 Covert or PM-40 in DeSantis pancake holster or Kydex IWB holster I made), I have that CW380 ready to go.

Bawanna
03-06-2015, 02:51 PM
It's nice to see officers carrying Kahr's on and off duty. I've owned multiple brands since I was the ripe young age of 21 and Kahr's are one of my favorites. Glocks are good guns but could never get used to holding the 2x4.

Bawanna, are you an officer?

I missed this post Hap, sorry dude. No sir I'm not an officer, I'm just a dept office puke and armorer. Mostly I drive a computer all day which I hate very much. The armorer gig doesn't take much time and can be equally frustrating when dealing with officer neglect but still better than hanging with the violets.

I do get to do some of the training etc that the officers get, so far they won't allow me to ride with them.

They think I'm trigger happy or something but I'm really just good at stopping repeat offenders.

Kahr_Lovin_LEO_CA
07-08-2015, 11:18 PM
I'm new to the profession but I've been carrying a CW9 off duty and finally had time to qualify with it as an on-duty secondary very recently.

Funnest little gun I've ever owned! Looking forward to adding a CM9 and a K40 really soon!

Indian127
01-02-2017, 09:37 PM
I just recently bought a TP-45 and have started carrying it off-duty. So far I love it! It's easier to conceal than the Glock 21 that we are issued and lighter and smaller than my full size Sig 1911. Only issue I've had is finding a left-handed concealment holster for it.

dp509
08-04-2018, 01:51 PM
I carry a Kahr PM9 for a back up gun.

i carry either the PM9 or a P9 off duty.

i carry extra magazines when carrying either one.

I have Night Sights on both guns.

Duty weapon is a issued Glock 23, 4th Generation with Tru Glo TFX Night Sights.

gale155
08-06-2018, 03:01 PM
I'm a retired LEO with a total of 30 years, and 10 years in armed data center security for a medical IT company after that. For the vast majority of those years, I was forced to lug around an issued Glock G22. Glocks simply work, and my last duty Gen 3 G22 (given to me by the PD when I retired) is my nightstand gun. However, I'm just tired of the damned things, and I guess I'm looking for a little bling in my old age. I live in and frequent areas with very little crime, and my every day pocket carry is now either my CW380 or Seecamp LWS32. If I have to go to a dicey area, I'll strap on my S&W Shield 9mm. And if for some reason I have to travel to the hood in Kansas City, I've got my trusty G22 to take with me.

Now that I've experienced Kahr with my new-to-me CW380, I'm thinking about selling the Shield and replacing it with either a K9 or MK9.

CM9
10-27-2018, 05:55 PM
You might also give some strong consideration to the little CM9. I keep one in my right hand jeans pocket at all times---very comforting.

kenemoore
10-28-2018, 07:40 AM
I'm old school. While I admit the new polymer frames are lighter, and do reduce felt recoil. I LOVE old school all metal firearms. Guess that's why I still carry a 1911 as my EDC.
Anyway, I have a K9 and love it. I also have a PM9 and it's great for pocket carry. You can't go wrong with any Kahr.

TheGreatGonzo
01-05-2019, 06:04 PM
I carried a Kahr K9 as my back-up, strapped to my vest. Then I went to an agency that restricts on-duty carry to issued Glocks, but they do issue a G27 for back-up, so I try not to complain.

Ohsheepdog
01-11-2019, 06:59 PM
PM9 is my on duty back up in a Renegade ankle holster. I've never found a 9mm as small that's also 100% reliable and as accurate as the PM9.

It's also been my occasional off duty as well. After a recent incident off duty, however, I'm carrying a compact double stack and probably will on a permanent basis.

AIRret
01-16-2019, 01:49 PM
Can you share the incident that made you change to a double stack??
It not that's ok.

Coroner01
02-17-2019, 02:57 PM
I'm a Deputy Coroner and my carry gun will be the CT45 once I can get in to the range officer. AL
'

Mike_usn_ret
02-23-2019, 08:06 PM
I think the Glock 43x might get some attention in the back up weapon search for LEOs. Lighter than a Kahr a small or smaller and 10+1 capacity

Bawanna
02-23-2019, 08:50 PM
We have a few 43's already riding in vest and 1 or 2 of the Sig 365's now too.

dao
02-23-2019, 10:37 PM
I saw my first 43X and 48 yesterday. I was surprised, and impressed, especially with the 43X. If I was still into SA striker fired I'd be sorely tempted to pick one up. As it is it looks like something that will give the P365 a run for its money.