Shield vs. PM9

[jocko]

humm, I wonder if my PM9 with 32K and no split mags or recoil failures would kinda offset that shield report??Just sayin.

I have no doubt the shield is going to be an ok gun, Smith made it they don't make junk, they make mistakes but when they do , they correct them. The size and weight IMO is not enough to run me away if I wanted one, but those 3 levers on the left side and that glock type trigger just does not excite me in any way shape or forum. Is that a negative of the shield? Only if u feel like I do and for sure the survery of safetys on guns on this forum anyways would not suck in alot of buyers.

Mag splits seems to be going away to, not reading of them like we did 3 months ago, sure some are still out there but it is going away. Mag springs in backwards, ??What have we read here, maybe 3 owners with that scenario, out of what, maybe 300K + kahrs and proababy 400K+ magazines . Thats not a problem, that is just a happening. I don;'t read other gun forums so does one really think that no other gun maker ever had mag springs in backwards??? I was at a small gun show yesterday and there wasno shields there and tons of other smiths, mostly J frames.

today I am meeting a friend who is going to trade me his PM9 (about 6 years old) with not many rounds through it for my 380 Ruger lcp EVEN UP. He just wants somethig smaller for pocket and I sure don't need another PM9 but for that deal I could not pass it up.l I willdo nothing to this gun in terms of any mods. I doubt if I will even port it, as after making sure it is OK it will be just an addition to my kahr family. and oh yes that fokking butt ugle chariot 7 round magazine is included. I might just get a standard floor plate for it and use it with my K9

[JimC]

No, I don't think your personal experience with one PM9 off sets the reports in any way at all. You have been very fortunate with your pistol.

The link I posted shows that new gun owners fired 9,285 rds thru their new pistols without a single malfunction of any kind. The list will grow I'm sure. I don't expect to ever read a thread about a Kahr model pistol functioning this well.

And...the magazines eject out of the Shield without bending, pinching of any sort!

This from The American Rifleman online on the Shield.

While at Smith & Wesson, I was able to get some time—a lot of time actually—behind the trigger and I have to say I enjoyed every minute of it. I sent approximately 300 rounds downrange without a single malfunction. Expand that to include the nine other writers firing a similar number of rounds and the result is 10 M&P Shields firing 3,000 shots without a single gun-induced stoppage (there were approximately five failures during the two days of shooting, all stemming from the same problem with the ammunition). Needless to say I was impressed, and looking at a range floor completely covered in brass, it is safe to assume my colleagues were as well. The Shield has an excellent natural point, a characteristic demonstrated in some one-hand drills we conducted, and it proved surprisingly accurate even out to 25 yards.

I haved also searched the differen t forums in an attempt to locate threads that were made stickies on how to "prep" the Shield before going to the range...not one. No suggestion to "rack" the slide 500 times prior to firing either.

This from the S&W Forum when I asked about break in for the Shield:

I did not read the entire manual, but I'm assuming there is no mention of a break in period. If there were, I think S&W would have found it important enough to mention that in big letters somewhere in the booklet in the first few pages.
I shot mine right out of the box and everything felt smooth; no "rough edges"...800 rds later, still feels the same.

Like I stated, I like my PM9 and I will keep it for its intended purpose but, I will seek out a Shield this week for a look see.

My curiosity has been peaked.

[Bill K]

As good as the Shield might be... The Shield would not replace my PM9 for pocket carry. It would not replace my Glock 26 for belt carry. Even if it would I've decided that my carry will not have a thumb safety.

I can't believe I've now spent hours reading and researching the Shield, a fine gun it appears but one I'm not going to purchase for myself. I'm now satiated - over and out with respect to the Shield.

[jocko]

oh so that is a total round count of all the posters, not just one gun??/I mis read ur post. My K9 used has been just as reliable with over 5K rounds

I read that section u referred to and al lthe reports were great, that says alot about Smith and Wesson to. 5 failures is no big deal but ammo is usually in the mix of anything that malfunctions in a gun, so do we blame the ammo every time, or does the gun also have to take some responsibilioty?? just asking, and that 3000 round count was with 10 shields..

Kahr never recommends racking the slide 500 times, I did that in my prpe thread. I am not kahr so becuase I put this in print, is it then gospel. that is really strectching the line IMO. I think that prepping thread states "SUGGESTIONS" to

Many kahr owners, don't even kow of kahr talk so this prepping thread is maybe read by such a small percentagte that it is amute point "nation wide". Most kahr owners and most gun owner buy a gun take it home open the box and shoot it like they stole it.

One cold knock the kahr lube chart also, it is needed???NO is it nice to new owners who don't know jack sh!t about guns???It certainly is. IMO these "tips" postes by many here are for owners who miss the obvious, not for veteran gun owners who know how to trouble shoot their own guns and how to properl6 maintain them.

Did we not help an owner here who posted after he cleaned his perfect working kahr and then reclenaed it, that ther slide locked open all the time. Some here knew right off what the issue was, it waqs obvious to those who know where to look, to a new owner he might think the gun is defective and needs to go back/

Not sure gun forums are just orgaized to praise that aker of the guns either. Every gun form has helpful people who have walkied in our footsteps.
Break in period is IMO in the eyes of the beholder. I do think hars needs rounds down range to smooth out better, is this a negative??/not forme, as I am gonna shoot te ew gun anyway, so one call callit what ever he wants. Again I think most kahr owners who don't even know we exist just shoot the gun right ouf of the box and never even read the manual. Hell we have members here wo don't read the manual...

Now if u interpret anything I saidhere as a negative towards the shield, u are dead wrong, I am just clarifying some things. I havenever stated and for most of the members here either have not been overly negative towards the shield. They have stated their thoughs as u have towards the kahrs. that is fair play IMO. 3 levers on the left side stops me dead in my tracks, it is a negative for me but maybe not a negative for the workings of the gun. Some report how thin it is. maybe for Smith it is,, the kahrs are thinner. yet.

I have always felt that owner don't give kahr enough credit for the smallass guns they make either. It seems almost no other gun maker and I am referring to the big name makers, have been able to make a smaller better working gun. Dont sh!t urself, if they could they would have. Not withstandig Rohrbaugh who makes a very smallass 9 at over a grand. the price point of the Shield is good, it will sell, butI think the cm9 and cm40- price points are in the sae ball park. I seen a cm9 yesterda I think it was $365 at the local gun show. Now that for an all stainless steel striker fired gun of qualit6y is very acceptable.

Smith will sell a ton of them because they are smith. Ruger proved that with the lcp, a direct copy of the kel tek but name wise Ruger over Kel tek trumps every day of the week to. I think Ruger has sole over 500K of those littlel ass 380's. They are no ore pleasanbt toshoot t6han the kel teks were but they willgo bang when needed.

[340pd]

I think a lot of all this comes down to trigger preference. Most people have a Glock, XD, or M&P in their collections that get some range time. The Shield has a super trigger which will appeal to those folks that are familiar that setup. I shoot all my revolvers double action only. My PM9, with it's long slow trigger, shoots like a high end revolver with a top quality trigger job. For me it makes the transition from my 340PD to the PM9 a minor one. So now my carry choice is driven down to which of these two I can control my shots better with. In my case the PM9 wins and therefore it is on my belt 90% of the time. Somewhere down the line for $400 I will buy a Shield and if I really don't like it off it will go to a new owner. As a part time RSO and instructor I heard a lot of hype on the Kimber Solo. They came into the range and after a few weeks they could be had by previous owners for a lot less than retail. Waiting makes sense. Something I have a lot of difficulty with when it comes to guns.

[JFootin]

Jocko and I are both lefties. He didn't mention it, but we lefties have another major objection in that the safety is not ambidextrous. It bothers me that most guns don't have ambi slide releases and mag releases. But the left side safety, if engaged when carrying, presents an awkward situation to us lefties in a s.h.t.f. situation.

When I purchase a larger pistol for at home use, I intend to get one that has full ambi controls. In fact, I would go for one with left side ejection (yeah, rotsaruck!). Just saying.

[mser]

For my caliber and type of carry preferences I feel fortunate to own, what are in my opinion, two of the finest sub-compact pistols on the market today; the PM9 and the Shield. If I were a (insert manufacturer here) snob, I'd be missing out on many fine firearms that other manufacturers have to offer.

Looking to the future I've been consulting the crystal ball, tarot cards and a palm reader. Every one of them is able to predict a PM45 will soon be joining my M&P 45C and Kimber Ultra CDP II. I guess you can't fight fate. No such thing as having too many quality firearms.

[itsthelaw]

No Kahr snob here...have owned more M&Ps than Kahrs of any type.

If the Shield people don't want to see the issues they won't. After a quick scan of the M&P site, I found chambering issues that required a barrrel replacement and tight mags. Maybe the spring isn't backwards, but there are issues with mags. Many are also talking about disappointment with regard to the trigger and how to replace parts. If you didn't find any compaints on the S&W Forum, you didn't look too hard.

If they would compare the price of CM rather than the PM, the trigger enhancements will push the cost well into the $500 range. I purchased 2 CM9s after April 12 for $426 OTD. The Shield is NOT cheaper than the CM9.

Many Shield people are saying that the difference in size isn't THAT much. We all know that adding .1-.5 of an inch in more than one dimension to a pocket carry will make a HUGE difference. When the BG is laughing prior to shooting you as you struggle with your snagged Shield, it will be THAT big of a difference.

The Shield is also 35%+ heavier than the CM9. If you don't think that the extra weight makes a difference, put one in your baggy cargo pants (if it fits) and take off running. What is the safest method to save your own life when not directly engaged in a gun fight? Fleeing! Now imagine that you have to pick up a 4 year old child to get them out of the way too. Will the extra weight cause you to adjust the child even when amped up? Maybe. Will you have to put your hand on the pocket to keep it from flopping around? Maybe. The Kahr PM45 is similar in size and lighter with 45 ACP. The G26 is less than an ounce heavier and gives you capacity of 10+. The G36 is an ounce heavier and gives you 45 ACP. The M&P9c is 2 ounces heavier with capacity of 12+. These are all proven guns.

Hats off to the Kahr designers who could build a gun the size of the CM/PM9 and still have not been outdone. If the Shield design team could have done it and made it reliable, they would have done it. The Shield is either an IWB gun with low capacity or a single-stack 9 that is the largest/heaviest in the field and barely fits in a pocket.

I will pick one up for the collection of M&Ps in August for <$325.

[pineappleshooter]

Nope. "First On Race Day"

(I have a turbocharged 99 Mustang DOHC)

Joe

Thought it was F***ed Over Re-built Dodge?!

[TeaQue]

I liked my CM9 but my Shield required no break in or "massaging" to get the mags to feed or drop freely. I also prefer the trigger on the M&P. The only "issue" I had was that the mags were a little hard to insert but that went away after the springs in the mags were broken in (I just left them loaded up for a few days.)

If I could afford it, I'd own both!

Heres my review and some comparison pics.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-w...lots-pics.html