(Updated 2nd Repoost) 1st Range Report (P380) - Nosedives

[Snidely Whiplash]

My sister ordered two new mags for her new CM9 and had problems with both of them. Somewhere on Kahrtalk.com she read that some new mags had their springs in backwards - not upside down - backwards. The mag that came with the gun worked perfectly. She disassembled all three, carefully noting which was the good mag and compared them. In the two newer mags, the springs were reversed. She turned them around, reassembled them all, and went back to the range the following day. All three mags worked flawlessly. That's all it took.

[jocko]

she read it in the propper prepping thread, which some people think is a needless waste of print.. But certainlly ur sister knows better.

Nice trouble shooting by her to to pursue the issue to its end result...

[JFootin]

This reversed mag spring thing is getting rediculous!

[jocko]

This reversed mag spring thing is getting rediculous!

that is fixable, look into the mirror, that is riduculous. U can't fix that

Just sayin.

[itsthelaw]

Here is the info from the second 200 rounds...

Prior to the trip, I completed the following steps.

1. Checked mag springs - OK
2. Cleaned gun and inspected - OK
3. Checked to make sure loaded mag isn't hitting slide stop - OK
4. Checked the followers for snaggin - Suspect, so I sanded mags as suggested very lightly.
5. Polished the feed ramp
6. Checked slide lock screw - OK

I purchased 200 rounds of WWB and Federal from Wal-Mart and went to the range. I shot 50 rounds at a time Federal, WWB, WWB, Federal. I shot the mags in sequence of 6 rd, 7rd, 6 rd, 7rd, etc. In each 50 rounds, I would shoot 24 rounds out of the 6 rd mag and 26 rounds from the 7rd mag, ending with 5 rounds in the 7rd mag. I did this for the first 150 rounds out of 200.

Results...

The 40th round (2nd round in mag) of the first 50 round box prematurely locked back on the 6 round mag.
The 40th round (2nd round in mag) of the second 50 round box prematurely locked back on the 6 round mag.
The 41st round (3rd round in mag) of the 3rd 50 round box prematurely locked back on the 6rd mag.
On the 4th and final 50 round box, I shot one more 7rd mag and then 6rd mags only, since the 6rd mag was the only one with failures.
Of the final 43 rounds, every 2nd or 3rd round out of the 6rd mag locked back.
Every failure was a locked back slide. I dropped the mag, put the mag back in and dropped the slide lock or sling shotted the round into battery. Each time the round loaded and fired and the rest of the rounds were fine.

The 7rd mag was flawless over at least 85 rounds. I am comfortable with it at this point. Unfortunately, I would rather carry a 6rd, but at least it seems to be down to the mag.

I am not comfortable with the 6rd mag at all. I made sure that my thumbs were nowhere near the slide lock. I am planning to take off a bunch of the material on the follower of the 6rd where it seems to show signs of rubbing after this session. The rubbing seems heavier on the skirt of the follower.

Questions...

I will be ordering a couple 6rd mags. Should I ask kahr for a new mag?
Is it worth messing with this mag at all?
Can I be confident that it is very likely just this single mag?
Why would the 6rd mag get worse as I got to rounds 150-200?
How does a follower catching on the mag release cause premature slide locking?
Could it be the spring and not just the follower?

This little gun is a super shooter. I love it! Thanks to the EXTREMELY helpful and detailed help of all those that took the time to help a non-mechanical newb like me feel comfortable with all the prep and mods. I certainly know the gun better now. I would thank you by forum name, but would leave out someone. I will say that Jocko's typing makes it hard to search threads for keywords...just saying!

I feel confident that I will feel great about carrying this gun soon.

[Deano]

Here is the info from the second 200 rounds...

Prior to the trip, I completed the following steps.

1. Checked mag springs - OK
2. Cleaned gun and inspected - OK
3. Checked to make sure loaded mag isn't hitting slide stop - OK
4. Checked the followers for snaggin - Suspect, so I sanded mags as suggested very lightly.
5. Polished the feed ramp
6. Checked slide lock screw - OK

I purchased 200 rounds of WWB and Federal from Wal-Mart and went to the range. I shot 50 rounds at a time Federal, WWB, WWB, Federal. I shot the mags in sequence of 6 rd, 7rd, 6 rd, 7rd, etc. In each 50 rounds, I would shoot 24 rounds out of the 6 rd mag and 26 rounds from the 7rd mag, ending with 5 rounds in the 7rd mag. I did this for the first 150 rounds out of 200.

Results...

The 40th round (2nd round in mag) of the first 50 round box prematurely locked back on the 6 round mag.
The 40th round (2nd round in mag) of the second 50 round box prematurely locked back on the 6 round mag.
The 41st round (3rd round in mag) of the 3rd 50 round box prematurely locked back on the 6rd mag.
On the 4th and final 50 round box, I shot one more 7rd mag and then 6rd mags only, since the 6rd mag was the only one with failures.
Of the final 43 rounds, every 2nd or 3rd round out of the 6rd mag locked back.
Every failure was a locked back slide. I dropped the mag, put the mag back in and dropped the slide lock or sling shotted the round into battery. Each time the round loaded and fired and the rest of the rounds were fine.

The 7rd mag was flawless over at least 85 rounds. I am comfortable with it at this point. Unfortunately, I would rather carry a 6rd, but at least it seems to be down to the mag.

I am not comfortable with the 6rd mag at all. I made sure that my thumbs were nowhere near the slide lock. I am planning to take off a bunch of the material on the follower of the 6rd where it seems to show signs of rubbing after this session. The rubbing seems heavier on the skirt of the follower.

Questions...

I will be ordering a couple 6rd mags. Should I ask kahr for a new mag?
Is it worth messing with this mag at all?
Can I be confident that it is very likely just this single mag?
Why would the 6rd mag get worse as I got to rounds 150-200?
How does a follower catching on the mag release cause premature slide locking?
Could it be the spring and not just the follower?

This little gun is a super shooter. I love it! Thanks to the EXTREMELY helpful and detailed help of all those that took the time to help a non-mechanical newb like me feel comfortable with all the prep and mods. I certainly know the gun better now. I would thank you by forum name, but would leave out someone. I will say that Jocko's typing makes it hard to search threads for keywords...just saying!

I feel confident that I will feel great about carrying this gun soon.

Again, I would suggest the slingshot follower mod. The link is here: http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=6943&page=2

Also may need to grind a small amount off of the slide lock pin. If the next round in the mag slides forward enough, it puts the wider base of the bullet where it will hit the slide lock lever pin and lock the slide back. Here is the link to that mod: http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t...lock+lever+mod

Just take a dremmel and grind enough off the pin to keep the rounds from hitting it. Don't take too much off, or the pin won't engage the metal pin on the follower and lock the slide back when the mag is empty.

These two mods completely fixed my mag problems.

[jocko]

ur right, the follower IMO has nothinbg to do with premature slide locking back. That is it was grabbing should produce feed issues. There is in the propper prepping thread a thread on how to check to see if by chance rounds arehitting on the inside of the slide lock lever and causing this. U could indeed have an out of spec slide lock lever. easy to check to. I don;'t think ur causing it either, u are conscious of wha tto look for etc. I would though ask if u shot maybe a couple of mags lefthanded tosee if it duplicated the issues. That could tall u something.

U could every easy have that slide lock spring on the left side out of whack. There is a photo tutorial by GB6491` called CW45 fixes and I think why also posted photos on what it should look like if it is not bend etc. It can be tweeked if it is bent. but read te tutorial. It can help u alot. It certaihly sounds also that u have a 6 rund mag that is not right. I would send this email to kahr in care of Jay and ask him if u send the 6 round back to them would they exc hance it for another new mag. They will indeed do so. I wouldonly buy a new mag if u want t6o, but they will take care of this mag for u, I am certain of that, especially after they ead your comments on what u have done etc.

Would not be the first mag that isnot right, . check to see if rounds are hitting the inside of the slide swtop if so, tell kahr this and they wlls end u a new one also, then andonly then would I suggest u file ouff a tad bit at a time that nub on the slide stop that is hitting the rounds inside. Once u get clearance, stop and retest. If u take to much off, u willnot get engagement of the mag follower to lock open the slide.

deano has posted 3 good threads u should look at , and decide what road u want to travel. I think it is fixable in house but if you feel different about that, insist kahr pick up your gun on their dime ad fix it..

[Deano]

...Also may need to grind a small amount off of the slide lock pin. If the next round in the mag slides forward enough, it puts the wider base of the bullet where it will hit the slide lock lever pin and lock the slide back. Here is the link to that mod: http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t...lock+lever+mod

Just take a dremmel and grind enough off the pin to keep the rounds from hitting it. Don't take too much off, or the pin won't engage the metal pin on the follower and lock the slide back when the mag is empty.

These two mods completely fixed my mag problems.

By the way, this is easy to check. Take the slide off of the frame. Re-insert the slide lock lever pin into the frame (without the slide on). Now take a full mag and manually eject the first round. Normally the next round will slide forward a little bit. Now without adjusting the position of the next round, put that mag into the frame. Now visually inspect the space between the bullet and the slide pin. This will tell you if this is the problem, and how much you need to take off.

[itsthelaw]

I will check how the second round sits in the mag after the first is taken out. I will also check how it is in relation to the slide lock pin. BUT...I am not going to start taking off metal from the pin, because i still think it might just be the mag. If all of my failures were with the 6rd mag and the 7rd mag had no failures in 85 rounds, I think it might be the mag that is allowing the 2nd round to mover too far forward and engage the pin.

Does this make sense?

If anyone would like to PM jay's direct email, I would be grateful. It seems that he could send me a mag AND send me a new pin after making sure that the pin is in spec.

Thanks!

[Deano]

I agree, it is the mag. Oddly enough it was my 6 round cm9 mag that functioned perfectly, and my 7 rounders that had the problems. Grinding the slide lock pin is an easy fix, and it gives me more peace of mind carrying the cm9 for a PD weapon knowing that no matter what, a round isn't going to hit the pin and cause the slide to lock back. It's a cheap part too. Screw it up and you're out $5. What you decide to do is up to you. Just telling you what has worked for me and many others here.

Have you checked to see if the bullets are scraping the pin yet?