Old Lincoln I agree 100% with all you posted. A F/A is to protect people NOT property.
Old Lincoln I agree 100% with all you posted. A F/A is to protect people NOT property.
Wake Up...Grow Up...Show Up...Sit Up...Shut Up...Listen Up
Absolutely true. Unless you are present when the aggressor approaches somebody you know well enough to go to jail for, you better leave well enough alone.
A classic case in carry classes is a man apparently roughing up a woman who is screaming for help. Instinctively we think the man is the bad guy, but in this case it was an undercover cop and he was trying to arrest a wanted felon who had a weapon that wasn't apparent to the observer. Getting involved is obstruction of justice, assaulting an officer, and whatever else they charge.
Witnessing a robbery is just as tricky. If you interject yourself and the robber then hurts the clerk, it could well be argued in civil court that you didn't know if the robber would further harm the clerk or not when you got involved and are responsible for the injuries.
The only time you can justify your actions is if the bad guy points a gun in your direction. Then you report that and say he had motive, opportunity, and intent based on your observation.
Carrying does not make you a police officer and you will not become a fellow protector of the people. The law at least in CA is that you cannot come to the aid of a police office unless he asks for it. That may have some flexibility however but at a risk.
Recently a uniformed officer was taken to the ground by an experienced perp and a civi jump in and held the guys legs down giving the cop position and allowed him to cuff the guy. That turned out well for the cop and the civi, but had the civi pulled a gun and shot the guy he would be in prison where the guy's buddies live. Assisting and shooting are two different things.
•"Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end." - O. L.
• "America's not at war; her military is. America's at the mall."
Oh don't pay any attention to Jocko. What can a guy with less than 400 posts know anyway????
Mmmmm.... boiled horse head, good stuff! :hungry:
PS: Just kidding Don Jocko, just kidding!
•"Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end." - O. L.
• "America's not at war; her military is. America's at the mall."
That reminds me of a situation I was in the other night. We all know what I'm doing in my spare time, and while I don't have a commission yet, I still won't let some things (felonies) go. I also have been doing some building maintenance at a church I know well, and have been doing it really late because of my schedule. I was coming home from that and came across three guys and a girl in a bike trail/creek/park kind of thing that is on my home. That looked exactly like what you think it did, and not good for the girl. Long story short, I stopped lit the scene with my headlights, and pulled my pistol, while separating everyone. I also had dispatch on the line. When an officer I know got there, I was still being used as cover (not the bullet resistant kind). After a few minutes of his investigation, it turns out the whole thing was really consensual. Thankfully, I knew the responding officer, but still, it could have come out much worse.
Attitude: it takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile...and 3 for proper trigger squeeze.
The olive branch is considered a symbol of peace, and good will. Last time I checked, it's still a switch.
Take your time deciding if you will carry, its important to be comfortable with the risks.
I carry everyday and IMP that's the way to go. BUT, if you get your CCW you have the choice to only carry if your anticipating being in a vulnerable situation. For instance there is a riot going on and you have to drive your Father to the hospital because he is having a heart attack. I know that may be far fetched, but a CCW would allow you to be a little safer. Bottom line; do the research and make your choice.
Good Luck
In the news today: 20 years for firing a warning shot.
(CNN) -- Saying he had no discretion under state law, a judge sentenced a Jacksonville, Florida, woman to 20 years in prison Friday for firing a warning shot in an effort to scare off her abusive husband.
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Yes it is apparently for real, and likely very unjust. People need to realize ours is NOT a system of justice, but a system of laws. How many times do you read about an obviously guilty person let off on a technically or plea bargain. You can be entirely just in defending yourself but if you violate a law in doing so you can be charged for it.
In the case above, if she had done almost anything without a gun involved she may not even have been charged. But fire a gun and a different set of rules apply. It's probably the gun phobia at work here but it is what it is.
I carry everywhere I can but will not draw unless I am threatened, and will not shoot unless in eminent danger. It's the knowledge and understanding you must to be in the position to defend your life without the need to defend yourself in court.
•"Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end." - O. L.
• "America's not at war; her military is. America's at the mall."
WOW!!!!!!!! You should have heard my husband when I read him your post!
It is not a justice system, it's a legal system.
Another concern for people with CCW's is the medical use of marijuana. We have a friend who's Wife is fighting cancer for the third time and she won't take medical marijuana during her chemo because her husband would have to give up his CPL.
Exactly. Good thoughts OL. I have had my CHL for months but have yet to carry. I keep coming up with these scenarios and can't convince myself that I would handle it correctly. Sticking to defending only yourself or your family is the safest way to go, but what would I really do in some of these situations where you have to decide in an instant? That's what I really have to make sure of before I would carry. Don't really want to have to spend $$$ on lawyers or end up locked up for good intentions but bad judgement.
lots of responsibility when one sticks a gun in his pocket. Just sayin. Actually WM36,IMO it is good that you think about it alot.
I bet George Zimmerman wishs he could take that one night back.
. My PM9 has over 40,000+ rounds through it, and runs much better than an illegal trying to get across our border
NRA BENEFACTOR MEMBER
MAY GOD BLESS MUGGSY
You have to remember you're not a cop, not a security guard, not a vigilante, and you sure as hell aren't a super hero all of a sudden. Learn to take lip and ignore it. Avoid the "monkey dance" at all costs (someone picking a fight with you to show off in front of his friends or for whatever reason). Go to the USCCA website and do some reading, they have some good info there. Read anything you can regarding use of deadly force by Masaad Ayoob, and other authors that teach self defense. If you have a bad temper, lose it or don't get the CC permit. Check with your homeowners insurance to see if you are covered in case you have to use your gun, I went ahead and got the USCCA Shield which will pay for a lawyer in an SD situation, both criminal and civil courts. Some CC class teachers say you should have a $100K available very quickly in case you have to use your weapon and need a lawyer. There are many things to think about, and it's a great responsibility. As someone pointed out earlier, either in this thread or another, it's not a system of justice, but a system of laws and bottom feeding lawyers. If you see a situation and not sure what exactly is going on, call 911 and observe, don't just jump in the middle of it to defend some woman or something, how many times have husbands and wives fought only to turn on the cop that shows up to break it up.
Now if I saw a group of people beating up an old person, I might have to get involved, but I'd certainly have 911 on the phone and be explaining what is going on and let the people know the cops were on the way without showing my weapon, I might possibly allude to the fact I was armed by sweeping my jacket back or something, but wouldn't draw unless they turned on me and I feared for my life. Even that could possibly get me in trouble, but I don't think I could just stand by and let something like that happen. Use your head, and trust your gut and always call the cops if you can. Once you pull your gun out, things may and probably will begin to spiral out of control, and you just don't know what will happen. Remember that no good deed goes unpunished.
I personally like to stay in well lit areas at night, and blend into crowds when I can, and make myself as inconspicuous as possible. I never stare at anyone unless they obviously are putting on a good natured show for people, I don't wear flashy jewelry or watches or anything someone might be tempted to grab. I am extra nice to people, hold doors open for people and do things like that, just so no one has any reason to mess with me. If someone bumps into me in a store or somewhere crowded, I say excuse me and go on without looking back (and check my wallet and see if it's still there). Acting the tough guy is liable to escalate into something you don't want.
I also don't go to places that are known trouble spots. Sometimes I'm on my bike and some guys wearing colors will come into the place I'm at. Usually if you ignore them they will ignore you. A polite nod in passing is all that needs to be said usually.
Who was it? Robert Heinlein I think that said an "armed society is a polite society".
Tom
Live today, tomorrow may not come!
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