CW9: Broken In, Sighted In, Un-Ratted, Dependable, But Not Pocket Size

**LampShadeActual** · 06-14-2012, 03:16 PM

This is just a short follow up to my other posts and my bottom line conclusion that the CW9 I bought is not really a pocket size pistol. It may be in two frames if the size limit cuts it off.

Original Problem: After more than 30 years of carrying S&W J frame .38/.357 revolvers in pants/shorts/cargo pants/dress pants/holstered/Baramimi hipgripped, I wanted something that could be practiced with using full power ammo and be more tactically useful than a 5 shot J frame and slow reloads. I looked at Ruger LC9s, fired a brand new KelTec PF9 a total of 3 shots before it died a sudden death, tried several little .380 autos, and liked none of them even if they had worked. Which they did not reliably. Neither did I care for the two finger grip mini-9s made by Kahr.

One Solution Tried: I bought a Kahr CW9 along with 6 magazines, a custom pants pocket holster by the maker of my J frame holsters, and several kinds of ammo. The pistol was broken in with WW115FMJRN, sighted in with Hornady 115 Critical Defense, and tested to my satisfaction for a zero and for function. After break in and sight in, it was fired another 700 rounds for testing magazines and for un-ratting foul ups. After that, I started using it in summer carry pants/shorts pockets. The problems and successes encountered in that process are summarized below with the thread info attached.

Conclusion: My conclusion is that after I un-ratted it, the Kahr CW9 was dependable for function, sufficiently accurate for 0-15 yard evil doer shooting, and I had "mastered" the learning curve sufficient to make it a reasonable choice for a small 9mm auto. I could hammer away for 100 rounds of 9mm and be unhurt. The three finger grip was controlable. The trigger, while long and long to reset, was manageable if you just kept pulling. Practice with the J frame has to be with light handloads. 7+1 is always nicer than 5.

However, the CW9 is not a pocket gun as hoped for. I have decided that it was an inappropriate choice for a S&W J frame replacement. If you take my S&W M&P 340, my S&W M60, and the Kahr CW9 and place them stacked on top of each other, they appear to be the same height and length. The Kahr is thinner and flatter, both of which are good.

The problem is that where the J frames have a barrel and cylinder and grip, the area of the J frame hammer is rounded. The Kahr CW9 is square and has a lot of metal in that area where the J frames have nothing making them more triangular than rectangular.

The result of those differences is that the Kahr is flatter, but sticks up farther and to the left if in a right front pants/shorts pocket. It is not bad walking around, but if you sit, in every clothing combination I can find, the rear of the slide of the Kahr is sticking you in the privates, family jewels, and making putting on a seat belt in a car about impossible to be comfortable.

In comparison, I just completed a 1000 mile car trip with the M&P 340 in my pocket all the way quite comfortably. There was seat belt clearance and room for other things more personal. You could ride comfortably with it.

In counter point, I used the Kahr today for a 40 mile shopping here there and everywhere trip and all it did was dig in and make misery.
The extra two inches of slide/frame/rear sight in that area makes it uncomfortable if you are sitting. Standing, the extra weight of the Kahr and magazine is noticeable. Combined with a loaded 7 round magazine in the other front pocket, it becomes too heavy compared to the Scandium alloy J frame M&P 340 and an extra speed strip in the other pocket. Same holster maker and design.

Not being able to sit down and be comfortable is a deal killer for the Kahr. The weight I could have learned to live with.

Alternative: You could say that the smaller 6 shot magazine Kahrs would be a better small fit. But they leave one finger hanging off the grip and the easy control is gone. The M&P 340 grip is a wood custom one that puts three fingers onto a minimum of length, but with enough wood to soak up recoil. It has a design that replicates a grip adapter in place with wood a little below the frame.

**LampShadeActual** · 06-14-2012, 03:17 PM

The other threads in this forum are with a few highlights:

CW9 Thread Disappeared
http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=12967

Things it took to make it 100% reliable:
*the rounded top front of trigger turning down cut my finger on first magazine. I removed metal, reprofiled the part that acts as a trigger stop in the forward motion, smoothed the part that rotates down away from the frame when you pull the trigger. If you have large hands, it rotates down and cuts your finger. A Kahr person on the phone said the worst that happens when you remove the trigger forward motion stop part of the trigger is that the free pull lengthens slightly. No harm by changing it.
*inside of trigger guard was rough cast plastic where your finger rubs as you pull to the rear. Polished the plastic so as not to retard my finger coming to the rear.
*disconnector was eating plastic in rear where upside down U is located for slide contact. Harbor Freight Mini-Dremel did its magic removing burrs from the stamped disconnector/trigger bar part. Burring stopped.
*magazines would not drop free when mag catch released them. Mini-Dremel removed burrs from the trigger bar reduced dragging on the magazines. Helped, not the full answer. They would mostly fall free.
*barrel had burrs all over from factory machining. Mini-Dremel neatly smoothed the sharp feathers and polished corners for smooth operation.
*striker tang-firing pin "sear" burred on bottom making a catchy draggy pull. Polished it with 600 grit paper backed with a flat stone. Much improved pull without a late in stroke catch.
*hand cycled the action 200 times just to loosen up the system and identify spots that rubbed.
*fired 200 rounds of WallyWorld WW115FMJ perfectly. Zero malfunctions. Every time, I loaded 7+1 to stress it as much as possible. Worked perfect. (Except for mags dropped out 2 or 3 times for unknown reason at the time. Worried me, but it never did it again. Remember this for later.) Thought gun was good to go. Time to test hollow points. Wrongie when I switched to hollow points.
*Where the barrel hood meets the chamber at top, there was a machined ledge about 1/32" tall under the hood upon which every brand of hollow point would catch and not enter chamber 3-4 shots out of each 8. Speer Gold Dot, Federal HydraShok, Winchester PD something, EVEN Hornady Critical Defense would hang up on it. Solution equaled you guessed it. Mini-Dremel away the L_ of the ledge and made it into a /_ if you get the idea. Polished and deburred the entire rear end of the barrel and hood in any place where a bullet could possibly come in contact. In Colt .45ACP terms, it was throated and polished. Also polished the feed ramp and rounded the bottom corners where they were getting burred on something.
*result equaled perfect function with any hollow point. Since the ledge was reshaped, it has now eaten perfectly, feed/fire/eject, about 500 rounds since the above fixes. When the ledge went away, no more catching bullet noses, the thing works perfectly.
*magazines dropping free when the mag catch was pushed were problematic. Found feathers from casting the plastic frame hanging inside of plastic handle holding mags in. Defeathered handle inside and mags drop free.
*finger grip extensions were an extra lump in my pocket in a pocket holster and felt funny under my finger firing??user concern, not defect. I reshaped each magazine so as to eliminate the little finger hook. Just enough to match the slope of the plastic above the little hook. Not a radical reshaping, just enough to get rid of the projection and blend the profile into the magazine tube and bottom plate. It felt better firing and stuck out less carried.
*sighting in was a trip and a half. Rear sight destroyed a couple expensive brass drifts. It was simply too tight for any gun sight. Finally had to shape a steel punch to move the rear sight without hurting anything before the rear sight broke loose for proper adjustment. To move one you have to put the slide on a firm but non maring surface, use a steel drift, and wack it a good one. Not precise, but I got it perfect.
*the CW9 is now zeroed for Hornady Critical Defense 115 FTX ammo. It shoots about 1" high at 15 yards. Same sight position works with 115 WW FMJ. Same sight position works with 4.1 Bullseye, Hornady 115 FMJRN reloads. All three loads shoot to same zero. This is the factory ammo sight height selections which have to use 115 grain ammo for an elevation zero.
*heavier and heavier bullets shoot more and more to the left and up. Hornady's Critical Duty 135 grain 9mm is close to the three loads above because it is kinda slow for a 135 grain 9mm. Standard 147 9mm loads move left and up quickly. Never shot any +P as no need with the Hornady Critical Defense ammo expanding and holding together to penetrate well.
*so having 500 rounds through it with zero failures since all the fixes were done, I thought I was finally good to go.
*then I ran accross a "warning" about the magazine follower internally disconnecting the magazine catch as there were 4 rounds remaining and/or again when there were 3 rounds remaining in the magazine. The follower goes by the mag catch slot in the magazine and in going by pushes the mag catch out of its slot in the mag. This is aggravated by the twisting effect of the finger grip extension floor plates. I read this note and said, Naw, not mine. Wrong again.
*follower problem details: See: http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1612 I stripped my six magazines and found the four original ones I bought at purchase chewed up with plastic sticking here and there. The two newer ones were beginning the process of self destruction.
*There is a simple fix there. I sanded and polished away the chewing making a 45 degree bevel sort of rounding and hope that stops the chewing. Pretty much on the order of the pictures in the site thread referenced above. It at least removes plastic material sticking out into the mag catch slot. The chewing up of the follower in two spots seems a constant process until the follower no longer contacts the mag catch. Something to watch for in the future as I clean magazines. I had no interest in grinding away any more than it took to uniformily smooth the chewed up places and round the areas as in the referenced site. Test firing reveals no problems in do this.
*the finger grip hook on all my mags is gone now so as not to contribute to the inadvertent release of magazines by twisting or by pulling down on the hook. I like them better that way anyhow. Some people like the little hooks.

CW9: Correct Slide Stop Spring Analysis & How To Help Prevent Inadvertent Catching
http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=13012

The slide stop was too easy to put on by accident and I developed a good fix for that.

CW9 Mag Catch self Released Mag In Pocket Holster
http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=13132

The magazine came uncatched in my pocket one day. It has not replicated that problem after I reversed the stick spring that makes it work.

**Sage** · 06-14-2012, 05:06 PM

After 30 years of carrying a shrouded j frame I can see where switching to a CW would be a bit challenging. I went from a j frame to a PM9. While it is a little different and the back of the slide sets a little higher and more forward in my pocket it does not dig into me or feel uncomfortable in any way. Maybe my build is just different but I have no problems when I pocket carry. However I usually carry in an OWB holster at 4 o'clock with a baggy shirt. I hope you can work it out. Kahrs are very reliable SD weapons.

**LampShadeActual** · 06-14-2012, 05:34 PM

I like the gun. I can shoot it accurately. It seems to be working just fine after the above described work. It is a good idea to practice with full house carry power loads. I can shoot a 100 of them just fine at a time. I think I can shoot it fast too. Most of my shooting was at sets of 6" by 11" steel plates set side by side by side to make you transition from target to target, not just shoot a set position. The sights are adequate for old eyes to see. In effect, the plates are an IPSC A zone. The gun don't miss them.

With the gun, 5 $40 magazines, $150 worth of Hornady 115 Critical Defense ammo, an expensive holster, a pile of other hollow points, and a bunch of WW115FMJ and 4.1 Bullseye 115 FMJRN reloads, I have spent a fortune on it. It pains my wallet to tenatively decide I picked the wrong thing for a pocket gun replacement.

It would be very neat disappearing in a, say, DeSantic Mini-Slide holster. But I can put about anything into the same holster and it would be OK. Anything else in a belt holster would be a Glock of whatever size I felt like. I wanted a pocket gun. It isn't.

Its not like I am small. 6'3", 210, 38 waist in shorts/trousers, gives a lot of loseness, and yet if I sit or bend, that part of the slide uses up all the slack. A seat belt becomes so tight it forces the leg of the shorts/pants up towards your body and makes it even worse than just in a chair.

Spring, Summer, Fall, shorts and a Tshirt tucked in usually make me a good dress code. One time I showed up at a daughter's with a Tshirt out and she took one look and asked if I got a holstered gun because it was lumpy. An invisible gun is a surprise to the evil doer's. Looking like you are armed gives them back the edge.

The point of the exercise above is to say that if you think a CW9 is a useful general pocket pistol, you might want to study the matter a good bit before spending that much cash.

**TucsonMTB** · 06-14-2012, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by LampShadeActual

I like the gun.. . . .

I wanted a pocket gun. It isn't.

The point of the exercise above is to say that if you think a CW9 is a useful general pocket pistol, you might want to study the matter a good bit before spending that much cash.

Yep! That may be why Kahr introduced the CM9.

It is about the same size as the PM40 that I pocket carry most of the time.

**jocko** · 06-15-2012, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by LampShadeActual

I like the gun. I can shoot it accurately. It seems to be working just fine after the above described work. It is a good idea to practice with full house carry power loads. I can shoot a 100 of them just fine at a time. I think I can shoot it fast too. Most of my shooting was at sets of 6" by 11" steel plates set side by side by side to make you transition from target to target, not just shoot a set position. The sights are adequate for old eyes to see. In effect, the plates are an IPSC A zone. The gun don't miss them.

With the gun, 5 $40 magazines, $150 worth of Hornady 115 Critical Defense ammo, an expensive holster, a pile of other hollow points, and a bunch of WW115FMJ and 4.1 Bullseye 115 FMJRN reloads, I have spent a fortune on it. It pains my wallet to tenatively decide I picked the wrong thing for a pocket gun replacement.

It would be very neat disappearing in a, say, DeSantic Mini-Slide holster. But I can put about anything into the same holster and it would be OK. Anything else in a belt holster would be a Glock of whatever size I felt like. I wanted a pocket gun. It isn't.

Its not like I am small. 6'3", 210, 38 waist in shorts/trousers, gives a lot of loseness, and yet if I sit or bend, that part of the slide uses up all the slack. A seat belt becomes so tight it forces the leg of the shorts/pants up towards your body and makes it even worse than just in a chair.

Spring, Summer, Fall, shorts and a Tshirt tucked in usually make me a good dress code. One time I showed up at a daughter's with a Tshirt out and she took one look and asked if I got a holstered gun because it was lumpy. An invisible gun is a surprise to the evil doer's. Looking like you are armed gives them back the edge.

The point of the exercise above is to say that if you think a CW9 is a useful general pocket pistol, you might want to study the matter a good bit before spending that much cash.

since u have put in so much time on getting ur cw right where u want it, do a covert mod on it and then be so damn near close to the cm9 in size and weight that one will never notice that small difference. Alot of 4um members hav e done it and it seems to work out great 4 everyone who has dne the mod to. Just sayin.

**Manzanita** · 06-15-2012, 09:42 AM

This begs the question: Couldn't you tell before you bought the CW9 that it probably wouldn't make that great a pocket gun? That seems kind of obvious. If I were shopping for a pocket gun, I'd know right away looking at the thing in a gun shop that it wouldn't be what I was looking for.