Kahr polymer framed guns not firing when cold *UPDATED* Kahr fixed it.

[jocko]

no it is not. the only metal part that is in the gu is the front two long slide rails which is a one peace unit. The rest of the gun is pure polymer, no internal frame structure..

[gb6491]

no it is not. the only metal part that is in the gu is the front two long slide rails which is a one peace unit. The rest of the gun is pure polymer, no internal frame structure..

Say man, you forgot the rear rails insert groove thang

[jocko]

I knew that after I posted it to. ur right. I guess I was really trying to answer the trigger pin thing to him..

[richholland]

Thanks all.

Yes, I'm not going to tell them about the freezer, since that was only a test after the problem came up in the "real world."

I initially noticed it after I retrieved my gun from the trunk of my car and wanted to have some practice on the trigger with snap caps.

The bottom line is that below about 37 degrees, the gun does not function.

[gb6491]

...The bottom line is that below about 37 degrees, the gun does not function.

That's talking your particular gun correct?

When you say "There is typically a long delay (more than 1 second) before the striker falls; and the delay can sometimes be reduced by exerting extra pressure on the trigger after it is pulled completely to the rear.". are you saying the delay occurs when the trigger is pulled and released or pulled and held back? Though not knowing which, I thought I'd contribute to your data base by seeing if my triggers operated normally, so I stuck my two "CW" series pistols in the freezer and promptly forgot about them for about three hours. Once I remembered they were in there (OK, I was looking for a frozen fruit bar), I tried the trigger on both and they worked without issue (both launched a Bic pen skyward).

However, I did notice that the slide on the CW 45 felt a little sluggish when cycling it. I'll not name the lube I used because I haven't had reason to test it further until today, though I will say I use it on my Remington 11-48 and noticed it was sluggish several weeks ago when temps were down on an early morning quail hunt. This leads me to believe that lube type or cleanliness shouldn't be ruled out just yet.
In regards to:
Dirty gun - others conducting this experiment have performed it with a clean gun.
Gummed-up lubricant - others conducting this experiment have removed all lubricant and run it dry
Dirty / improperly lubed striker channel - others conducting this experiment have disassembled and thoroughly cleaned the striker channel. Results are the same.
Did any of these folks remove the side plate? Perhaps there is gunk under it that inhibits the trigger bar when cold, maybe there's a clearance issue?
I'd like to suggest removing the side plate and repeating the test.
Regards,
Greg

[richholland]

That's talking your particular gun correct?

When you say "There is typically a long delay (more than 1 second) before the striker falls; and the delay can sometimes be reduced by exerting extra pressure on the trigger after it is pulled completely to the rear.". are you saying the delay occurs when the trigger is pulled and released or pulled and held back? Though not knowing which, I thought I'd contribute to your data base by seeing if my triggers operated normally, so I stuck my two "CW" series pistols in the freezer and promptly forgot about them for about three hours. Once I remembered they were in there (OK, I was looking for a frozen fruit bar), I tried the trigger on both and they worked without issue (both launched a Bic pen skyward).

However, I did notice that the slide on the CW 45 felt a little sluggish when cycling it. I'll not name the lube I used because I haven't had reason to test it further until today, though I will say I use it on my Remington 11-48 and noticed it was sluggish several weeks ago when temps were down on an early morning quail hunt. This leads me to believe that lube type or cleanliness shouldn't be ruled out just yet.
In regards to:
Dirty gun - others conducting this experiment have performed it with a clean gun.
Gummed-up lubricant - others conducting this experiment have removed all lubricant and run it dry
Dirty / improperly lubed striker channel - others conducting this experiment have disassembled and thoroughly cleaned the striker channel. Results are the same.
Did any of these folks remove the side plate? Perhaps there is gunk under it that inhibits the trigger bar when cold, maybe there's a clearance issue?
I'd like to suggest removing the side plate and repeating the test.
Regards,
Greg

Thanks, Greg.

Yes, I'm talking about my gun . . . although a guy in the other thread described exactly the same thing, and another guy described the same symptoms, but did not go into details about how/when/why.

I pull the trigger all the way to the rear and hold it; there is a delay; and then the striker falls. It seems to me that the harder I pull on the trigger after it is all the way back, the shorter the delay. But since I have no way to get hard data on this, and since the trigger does not actually move any further when I am pulling harder, this part of it might just be in my mind.

When the gun is room temperature, there is a slight over travel to the trigger - meaning, the "cocking cam" (as Kahr calls it) continues to rotate after it releases the striker. It is possible that when the gun is cold, there is something hampering the movement of the cam; such that the trigger and bar move through their normal motion, but the mechanism binds and prevents the cam from moving through its normal range of motion. Then at some point, the stress on the system from the trigger being pulled and held overcomes the binding on the cam that allows it to move through the remainder of its normal rotation.

This theory is supported by the fact that I do feel a slight binding/resistance near the final portion of the trigger travel when the gun is cold.

Of course, as you suggest, the binding might be taking place on the trigger bar itself, underneath the side plate.

I have not removed the side plate - this is the only thing I have not disassembled. What size Torx is that? I'll do it and see what happens. However, I suspect that since there are three of us on the forum that have the identical problem, gunk is most likely not the issue.

[jocko]

I think it is a #6 torx harbor freight sells a cheapo set that also included the #5 torx which fits the P380.

jSo that side plate screw is either a 5 or a 6 Torx for sure.

[richholland]

I think it is a #6 torx harbor freight sells a cheapo set that also included the #5 torx which fits the P380.

jSo that side plate screw is either a 5 or a 6 Torx for sure.

It's a #5.

[Flincher]

I live in North Dakota and shoot outdoors all year. If the sun is shining and the wind aint blowin, even 0 degrees is decent. I've never had a gun issue the I could say was weather related due to temps. However, just as you use thinner oil in you car in the winter, maybe the use of grease could be a culprit. When it's real cold, I'll use thinner oil like Rem-oil.

[jocko]

My buddy's semi auto shotgun frooze up one hard winter while waterfowl hunting in the blowing snow. It can happen,not sure anything is fool proof. Lubricants today play a big part of propper or impropper reliability.

I choose not to put my PMJ9 through all the enduraced type tests.I have carried it for over 5years and all I can assume is that when I need it, that it will not let me down.

hujmm , I wonder why engine heaters areso so popular in canada????? Just sayin