CM9 Blown

[Ikeo74]

Looks to me in all the pics I have seen here but best illustrated in this one, that if a case is going to rupture due to defect it will go right at the top of the feed ramp for obvious reasons.

Bad ammo really sucks.

True statement jimsea. Also take note the dipped out area under the feedramp is not on any barrels made by Kahr, thus my claim that all Kahr barrels are supported is proven to be true.

[wyntrout]

My first "possible" case rupture resulted in my PM9's extractor disappearing. I don't recall any other problem than just suddenly it was gone. I think it was my EDC and I had to use my PM45 when I left the range. Kahr sent me a replacement extractor and I bought some for all of my Kahrs, including some springs and pins. I don't shoot any lead reloads... just use the Atlanta Arms & Ammo Inc. factory reloads sold at the range. They make precision ammo.

The first recognized rupture was with my P9 and the side plate blew off, as well as the extractor. At that point I had added a PM9 extractor and its pins and springs to my spare parts, especially for the range. I put the pistol back together with the spare extractor and continued shooting. I put suspect ammo aside... the remainder of a case of 124-gr FMJ "factory reloads" that I had bought a decade ago. The ruptured case had a "A-MERC 9mm" headstamp and I found 5 more of those in the remaining 150 rounds or so. I figured I would shoot them in the K9... more robust barrel, steel frame, and no side plate.

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.p...ht=P9+ruptured

Next range trip I started firing the last 5 rounds of that ammo and #2 blew out the extractor. I said that was enough, tore the bullets apart, fired the primers, and burned the powder... have a video of the powder burn... kind of funny. Did you know that a short piece of unrestrained cannon fuse acts like a rocket?

http://s1134.photobucket.com/albums/...Powder%20Burn/

Anyhow, that was my only experience with "factory reloads"... other than AAA, our range ammo in my Kahrs. That Craig ammo I bought well over a decade ago at a gun show for my K9. I did finally shoot up the rest with no problems using the new G19 and/or K9.

One point, though, the point of rupture was NOT at the feed ramp but possibly upper left... 7 to 11 o'clock. One P9 picture shows the case still in the chamber. That was the case in the two recovered shells.

Wynn

[jocko]

nuttin wrong with kahrs barrels. If one feels unsafe with them, then best go to anutter gun. Why to we tend to blame the guns when it is bad mmo. With the way today they are pouring out new ammo, it is a wonder we don't see more of this blowouts, Percentages are so so so low in the first place , but it is gonna happen..

[higgsjunk]

Let me give a little more information.. I was shooting a box of 50 rounds, 5 at a time. The bad round that caused all this was the 45th out of 50. The 44th round went off, I reacquired the target, pulled the trigger and the round felt just like all the others except a burning feeling on my hand. Looked at the gun and the side cover was gone as well as the extractor.

Obviously some kind of problem with the ammunition caused this but I don't think the round was double charged, deffinatily was not a squib because the bullet exited the barrel and I had to pull the trigger so it was not a slam fire..

The bad case was still in the gun so I field striped the gun and took a wooden dowel rod and knocked the case out of the barrel.

Now according to the members here on the forum, the barrel supports the round just as well if not better than most other manufactures..

I am just having trouble understanding at what point after i pulled the trigger the case blew...

Can someone take me through the process step by step?

Thanks so much for all the comments.. If there is any other information I have left out, please feel free to ask...

[Ikeo74]

This is only an uneducated guess and has no basis of fact.
I think the case rim had a weak spot or crack near the ejector. When the gun fired the extractor started to eject the case, the case rim seperated and the bullet had not exited the barrel yet. This allowed the internal pressure of about 25,000 psi to blow out of the rear of the case (the hole in the split rim) and blow the ejector out of the gun as the case was being pulled out (ejected) about 1/8 inch out of the chamber to be ejected. That is the closest answer I can think of at this time.

[robdnor]

Well, being that it's a Winchester 9mm, I well simply mention that one of my training partners had 2 squibs from Winchester white box 100 cnt a couple Thursday's back. He contacted Winchester who sent him a return label, they (winchester) did mention that there may be a potential of counterfeits as there was no lot number on his box, then again that may be a generic response to cover themselves, as they did say they were planning to send him 500 rounds
So what I am gettin at is if you still have a couple of the rounds left then you may want to contact Winchester in addition to kahr, see what they have to say about it

Also, fully supported chamber and a case blowout, Ruger mark 3 on Sunday, that sure was fun
The rear of the casing blew off completely
Not that it's 9mm but it was also Winchester, super x.. And then the back of casing (head stamped) on a couple other casing looked bulged/rounded
Unfortunately I normally throw my 22 in peanut butter jar in the range bag to secure the ammo better than a box, so bye bye box and lot numbers (yes shame on me) Thankfully after inspection, the gun is fine

This leads me to the assumption that the crazy ammo rush may be to blame?

[higgsjunk]

Ikeo74

That makes the most since of any answer Ive been given thus far.. Thanks

robdnor and others..

I'm sure the quality control has went down the drain during this time of ammo shortage but this ammo was part of an old stock i've had for a few years..

[Bawanna]

This type of thing could easily get past any quality control in the best of times too. Can be one of those hidden things that your just not gonna see until something bad like this happens.

I sure hope the major increase in production doesn't create more of this. I believe in my own head that they are still putting out good quality stuff at least I have very high hopes.

[jocko]

squibbs, blown cases can happen to ammo at any age of mfg. If we knew, it would never happen but it is what it is. there really are not alot of guarantees in life..

I have no idea how the quality control works in the reloading either, as millions are made each day so some type of computer system is desige dto catch this stuff, 99.9999995% of the time. Man sure isn't doing it or we would have a squbb per box. I t4nd to lean tow3ards what the colonel said so, Unlessit happens to you like we have seen n thisf orum, I tend to take alot of stuff pritned as heresay sh!t to. Just to be one of the boys type thing..,Just sayin

[wyntrout]

I would hang onto the Winchester box and the remaining ammo and see what they could do for you. It really sounds like a defective case that ruptured at a weak point as the cartridge fired and the case was expanding. That's usually enough to blow the extractor out and sometimes the side panel. I say sometimes because when my PM9 extractor disappeared, I had no clue about the ammo at that time, but it was probably the same A-MERC cases that I isolated after the P9's incident... and stopped fooling with after the K9 extractor went bye-bye!

I would certainly see if Winchester would step up in some way to help repair your pistol or compensate you a bit.

Wynn