Sarcasm often tends to serve the purpose of illustration most clearly.
Re: Thoughts on the CM9 feed issues
Here in the south, we have a different word for it... Nosediving is, evidently, a problem across kahr's entire product line. For me, it was the ridge on the follower that forced the nose of the round down, after the hump. Funny, those POS Promag magazines, work flawlessly.
Last edited by codegeek; 08-05-2013 at 07:14 AM.
Reason: need to learn to spell "kahr" dear gawd....
" You say you have a 6th round feeding issue? But you're describing a 2nd round feeding issue. Some clarity please!~
You're mistaken about the Kahr ramp, and here's how you can see for yourself. Take the pistol apart. Mount the barrel to the frame using the slide stop pin. No slide on the frame of course..... Now take a magazine with one round in it, and seat the magazine. Push the barrel all the way backward and down. Thats how it sits at the beginning of the feeding cycle. See the releationship of the top round to the chamber? "
No, I said I have a feeding issue with the FIRST round, if FULLY loading the magazine. To make it simple for you.....the FIRST round. Got it ?
No, I'm not "mistaken". Anecdotal crap, such as "look at this, it seems like that", such as you said in your second paragraph (quoted above) proves nothing - and in fact, amounts to nothing - just empty blather.
I'll make it SIMPLE for you. The top round in the magazine, IF a full magazine, is held too tightly against the magazine lips, because the mag spring is too long in it's standard form (the coils close completely, or almost completely, before the last round is in). This causes the TOP round (again, IF from a FULL magazine) to strip from the mag at the wrong angle, thus nosing into the feed ramp. The feed ramp is so steep that said round is unable to slide up the ramp....and free itself. So, the round jams against the feed ramp and the force of the recoil spring, trying to close the slide, only makes it worse.
This happens with MY CM9, EVERY TIME NO MATTER the bullet shape used (I've tested everything EXCEPT a semi- wadcurtter, which logic tells me probably wouldn't be a good choice). IF however, I wrap my little finger UNDER the magazine and apply upward pressure as I release the slide or rack it, then the magazine moves up in the well, when the slide is open, just enough to prevent the jam - and the gun feeds just fine.
The feed jam problem, I'll say for the LAST time, ONLY occurs with the TOP round in the mag - IF the mag is FULLY loaded (6 rounds). That is further evidence that the spring pressure on the top round in the mag is too great.
" D78, it is NOT supposed to work like that.
The first thing I would do is get a couple of boxes of factory ammo and see what that does. You should NOT be carrying reloads anyway, both for legal liability reasons (they tried to hang Zimmerman for his "hair trigger" and "extra round in the chamber" on his Keltec) because if you ever use it they will say you made "super loads" to kill people, and for reliability, because a shootout would be a really bad time to have a case split or a squib or a not fully seated primer.
No comment on your reloading prowess, just speaking common sense.
That being said, if factory ball or JHP feeds properly, you have an issue with your rounds. There is very little space inside a Kahr, and a little off on the OAL or shape of the bullet makes all the difference in the world.
Again, it should and must feed off the top of the mag. If factory ammo won't feed, send it to Kahr to be fixed. Your issue is unacceptable on a defense gun. What if it jams or you get a dud, and you need to do a clearing drill? You won't be able to get the gun back into service. NO GOOD. "
First of all, all of the blather about "you'll get in legal trouble with reloads" is internet paranoid CONJECTURE. I've heard more than enough of it - so do me a favor and stow it someplace else, OK ? Thanks for your concern, if that's what it is - but I don't need the lecture.
Howis it that you somehow think that "factory" ammo will feed any better than reloads ? Not a reloader, are you ? Evidently not, as you don't seem to understand that a reloader can duplicate ANY factory ammo, with the right components. "Factory ball" ??? Simply round nosed, jacketed bullets. I have already tested (as I've already stated) every bullet shape available for 9mm, except the notoriously difficult to feed semi-wadcutter. So, I am WAY past your point, OK ?
The reason the TOP round in the mag won't feed, IF the mag is fully loaded....is for reasons stated in my previous post, period. "Factory ball" ammo or not, is NOT the point.
Well, you're the genius, and I'm just a guy who reads just a little better than Crayon Martins girl friend.
Originally Posted by D78999
By cutting the magazine spring, you've only kicked the can down the road.
I find it amusing once again where a person will come on board, describe and issue inconsistantly, say how they've modified the pistol, pick apart the design, make direct or indirect reference to using questionable ammunition, etc etc and then ask for advice - after they're already stated their own case for the situtations conclusion.
Do you realize there are threads on this forum quite litereally making light parody of such situations. And ... I can see why.
And where does this all end up? First - there still exists an unresolved problem. Second - Kahr will say the gun was altered, possibly voiding their excellent warranty. Third - the person who had a problem goes away mad because of the undoing of their own devise. And, Fourth - said person goes on to spew the outrageousness of Kahr and how their firearms will suck until the end of time, all over the internet.
What have I missed here?
" Let me give this for you to consider. Consider how little the breach face moves backward in its cycle, beyond that point which will allow a cartridge to rise up to the feeding point at the lips of the magazine. The slid overtravel, as well as the speed of the slide, combine to determine how much time the cartridge has to rise. If the cartridge rises too slowly, then there are problems... as its not in place when the slide strips it into the chamber."
Do you know ANYTHING about springs ? Anything at all.....except that they are "springy" ? I doubt it. You are what we refer to as an "anecdotal engineer" (one who thinks he has it all figured out, just by looking at something....and deciding that it "seems" this way or that). Not scientific, not proper engineering practice, not even common sense. Just DUMB.
A linear wound spring, which is the type found in the magazines in question, compresses and extends at EXACTLY the SAME rate, in both time and force, whether it varies in length by one coil or not, unless other forces acting upon it change in some way (such as a change in friction of the follower against the mag tube, for example). I certainly understand what you are getting at, better than YOU do in fact, but you are WRONG. The standard spring length in the "9-6" magazine, is too long, thus jamming up the top round. It is what it is - and your not believing it, or more likely not understanding it, changes NOTHING.
" Sarcasm often tends to serve the purpose of illustration most clearly."
Illustration of WHAT ?....... that you are an IDIOT ?
oh well... i guess i just have all wrong albert. You can cut your own spring as much as you want.
I am a *******. An illiterate one at that.
I did miss something. Character assasination.
Please continue, but do so without my advice, as you already know it all. I'm done with this thread. I'd rather go hang on the parody of this situation.
" By cutting the magazine spring, you've only kicked the can down the road.
I find it amusing once again where a person will come on board, describe and issue inconsistantly, say how they've modified the pistol, pick apart the design, make direct or indirect reference to using questionable ammunition, etc etc and then ask for advice - after they're already stated their own case for the situtations conclusion."
No, what I've done is make MY CM9 function BETTER, as evidenced by the 170 rounds I went through today, with ZERO failures.
Your second paragraph, as quoted above, doesn't even rate a reply - so I'll ignore it - as further ravings of an idiot.
By the way, everything I've posted on this forum, since joining a couple of days ago, was posted merely to share information. I never once asked anyone's advice. I have never said ONE word that disparages Kahr in any way - that is a figment of your imagination. In fact, I've said that I LIKE the pistol.....and that it is "a keeper". I've also alluded to it being a quality gun.
Your reading skills, CJB, are VERY suspect.
Finally, I must say that my coming here has been, up to now, a pleasant experience. Obviously, there is an A-HOLE (CJB, in this case) in every crowd.
But, that shouldn't change my opinion of the whole group - and it doesn't.
" I did miss something. Character assasination."
YOU are the one who started with the insults, twerp......I only "returned fire".