From Glock to Kahr: How to get used to the Kahr?

[intargc]

I have recently purchased a Kahr P9. I have been shooting Glocks for a year and train quite often in groups and private training for concealed carry and tactical training. I have always used my Glock 19. I am quite used to Glock and firing the Kahr has proven to be difficult for accurate and quick follow up shots.

I carried the 19 for a while, but after a while it became more of a hassle than I could cope with and given I'm 5'9 and 165 lbs, it prints like a mofo on me. So I went with the Kahr. The Kahr carries wonderfully! However, it is just very difficult to shoot for me. Add the fact that all of my training is done with Glocks, coming back to the Kahr just makes me feel like I'm having to relearn again and again.

For those that train regularly with Glocks and have owned or do own a kahr. Does it get easier as time goes on? I get that if you don't train tactically and regularly, this isn't that big of a deal as anyone can shoot a paper target in a standard range... But keeping muscle memory for me is a big deal. That, however, is matched with the strong desire to have a firearm that conceals well and is somewhat tolerable.

My main issues is the trigger of the Kahr. I love how smooth it is, but the really long pull and reset on it make things very difficult to get straight shots and quick follow ups without taking my time and pulling the trigger very slowly. The other issue I have is keeping a firm grip on the small frame... With the Glock, it's thick enough to where keeping a firm grip requires very little attention for me... but with smaller framed pistols, my hands feel as if they're wrapping around too much and therefore I guess my hands tend to naturally ease up on the grip to compensate... if that makes sense. But primarily, it's the trigger.

I'm quite sure that if I stopped shooting Glock all together and focused in on the Kahr, I would be fine. However, I don't think that I would want to carry the Kahr for anything other than concealed carry in the city due to the lack of capacity.

Any opinions from those in a similar situation are welcome. Any tips on getting used to the Kahr trigger are very welcome... and particularly from those that train tactically and swap back and forth between the Kahr and Glock.

[jlottmc]

My thoughts look like this: Train with the Kahr, shoot the heck out of it, then do the Glock the same way. One thing that will also help is just to handle the Kahr, dry runs etc. soon it will feel like it was made in your hand. Repetition and rounds are the best way I know of to get where you want to be.

[hsart]

I have recently purchased a Kahr P9. I have been shooting Glocks for a year and train quite often in groups and private training for concealed carry and tactical training. I have always used my Glock 19. I am quite used to Glock and firing the Kahr has proven to be difficult for accurate and quick follow up shots.

I carried the 19 for a while, but after a while it became more of a hassle than I could cope with and given I'm 5'9 and 165 lbs, it prints like a mofo on me. So I went with the Kahr. The Kahr carries wonderfully! However, it is just very difficult to shoot for me. Add the fact that all of my training is done with Glocks, coming back to the Kahr just makes me feel like I'm having to relearn again and again.

For those that train regularly with Glocks and have owned or do own a kahr. Does it get easier as time goes on? I get that if you don't train tactically and regularly, this isn't that big of a deal as anyone can shoot a paper target in a standard range... But keeping muscle memory for me is a big deal. That, however, is matched with the strong desire to have a firearm that conceals well and is somewhat tolerable.

My main issues is the trigger of the Kahr. I love how smooth it is, but the really long pull and reset on it make things very difficult to get straight shots and quick follow ups without taking my time and pulling the trigger very slowly. The other issue I have is keeping a firm grip on the small frame... With the Glock, it's thick enough to where keeping a firm grip requires very little attention for me... but with smaller framed pistols, my hands feel as if they're wrapping around too much and therefore I guess my hands tend to naturally ease up on the grip to compensate... if that makes sense. But primarily, it's the trigger.

I'm quite sure that if I stopped shooting Glock all together and focused in on the Kahr, I would be fine. However, I don't think that I would want to carry the Kahr for anything other than concealed carry in the city due to the lack of capacity.

Any opinions from those in a similar situation are welcome. Any tips on getting used to the Kahr trigger are very welcome... and particularly from those that train tactically and swap back and forth between the Kahr and Glock.

I have a Glock 19 as my primary for home protection, and have trained with it tactically. I have a Kahr PM45 for carry. A P9 should be as close to a G19 as Kahr can get, and personally I am more accurate with the PM45 now because I mostly train with it. Your P9 should be more accurate than my PM45 all things considered since it has less recoil and a longer barrel. I do need to get in more dry practice with the G19 to even out my accuracy between the two. The main difference for you, IMO, is the trigger (not to mention magazine capacity). I miss the very short reset that the Glocks have but with enough practice and training with the Kahr I do not consider this a big issue. I actually like the Kahr trigger better. All I can say is the practice as much as you can with your Kahr since it is your carry weapon. 10 rounds assuming you carry a spare mag should be enough.

[intargc]

10 rounds assuming you carry a spare mag should be enough.

It's funny cause this was a big issue for me and so I started asking around and got a really good answer about capacity from my instructor that has been in many gun fights in his life time as a Marine and an Atlanta, GA officer as well as a couple as a civilian.

He said to me that most assailants travel in packs. It's very rarely 1 person confronting you. In his experience as an officer, he found it was typically 2-4 assailants against 1 person. If you have at least 8 rounds before a reload, you can give everyone a round and then everyone gets seconds.

I found that to be pretty sound advice and very in line with how I train. If there are multiple assailants, everyone gets a round and then you come back around and give everyone seconds... So, considering the P9 has 7+1 and an extra 8 round mag, this makes good sense.

[JodyH]

If there are multiple assailants, everyone gets a round and then you come back around and give everyone seconds...

Good in theory, sucks in practice.
Get yourself into a good "force on force" class and you'll find that "boarding house rules" just does not work in a dynamic situation.
First, as soon as the gun comes out, most people start moving.
By the time you shoot BG#1, BG#2 and BG#3 aren't just standing around waiting for their serving of lead, they are either running away or attacking.
Then there's the fact that handgun rounds suck at killing people.
You shoot BG#1 and start looking around for his accomplices (who jumped aside when you started shooting), while you're trying to draw a bead on BG#2 who's bum rushing you from the side, BG#1 decides he's not ready to die today from one bullet and punches you in the side of your head. BG#3 meanwhile ran off 5 yards and has drawn his gat and is ready to blast in your direction as soon as he assumes the proper gangsta grip.

A better plan when facing multiples is shoot your way out of the situation.
What that means is shoot whatever is between you and the exit as many times as possible, as quickly as possible, while moving towards that exit.

[intargc]

Good in theory, sucks in practice.
Get yourself into a good "force on force" class and you'll find that "boarding house rules" just does not work in a dynamic situation.
First, as soon as the gun comes out, most people start moving.
By the time you shoot BG#1, BG#2 and BG#3 aren't just standing around waiting for their serving of lead, they are either running away or attacking.
Then there's the fact that handgun rounds suck at killing people.
You shoot BG#1 and start looking around for his accomplices (who jumped aside when you started shooting), while you're trying to draw a bead on BG#2 who's bum rushing you from the side, BG#1 decides he's not ready to die today from one bullet and punches you in the side of your head. BG#3 meanwhile ran off 5 yards and has drawn his gat and is ready to blast in your direction as soon as he assumes the proper gangsta grip.

A better plan when facing multiples is shoot your way out of the situation.
What that means is shoot whatever is between you and the exit as many times as possible, as quickly as possible, while moving towards that exit.

Possibly... But he did give us a few police case examples of where a guy was being attacked by multiple assaliants with guns and in those cases the person was shot by the second or third assaliant by the time he got to them.

It's debatable, of course. But I like how my instructor has been in many hand-to-hand and gun fight situations and can pull from his own experience as well as his investigative experience as a police officer...

[hsart]

I have a couple of thoughts here... every 'situation' is different. I do not believe that any situational training can cover anything but rudimentary awareness and some potential responses. What I believe is important are two areas - one is absolute knowledge of your hardware from sight alignment and trigger control to emergency reloads and clearing basic malfunctions. Dry and wet practice as much as possible and continually get 'expert trainers' tune-ups from time to time to get you aware of your bad habits. The second is knowing how you would react in adrenaline inducing situations; tactical training from various sources; learn how to get in a combat mindset and stay there. Know your strengths, work on your weaknesses. Ultimately it is not the weapon but the person behind it. Anyway just a few thoughts.

[deadhead1971]

You mentioned 2-4 assailants. That's why I stopped carrying the Ruger LCP.

Where are your hits on the target with the P9? If you are right handed, you may be hitting left of point of aim or low and left.

My groups at first were about 3 to 4" left of point of aim. I was sure the sights were off but I hung in there and practiced, and now my groups are more centered and tighter together.

I don't have a P9; I have a PM9 which is great for pocket carry.

Here is a history of my shooting. Compare the target photos on the first page to the 3rd page.

http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistol...uracy-pm9.html

[jocko]

tWO different trigger systems. Glocks are easier to shoot more accurately, that being said the kahrs are very accurate , just takes more time to get to know the gun and its looooong trigger system.

I can shoot the eyes out of things with my tuned G19, best gun I have ever shot for accuracy. I can't do that with my PM9. IO shoot it good at 10 yards and under but nothing like I can do with my g19, but the PM9 is with me 24/7. that is the big difference for me between the two guns.

You keep shooting that kahr and ur groups will tighten up, just IMO don't expect the total accuracy that your glock gives you, unless u are one hell of a double action shooter for truly that is what kahrs are..

[DKD]

Intargc,

Before I got my two kahrs I was a 1911 kind of guy for many years, so my learning curve was even steeper than your transitioning from a Glock to a kahr.

Like all the boys here said, you'll get alot better after a while...just treat the Kahr like a smoothed out revolver and you'll do just fine. With a little more range time and dry fire practice you will learn to take up the slack or travel in the kahr trigger then press the trigger to touch the rounds off and get off the trigger just like a revolver. With a little practice it becomes second nature and quick follow up shots can be delivered with no problems.