Kahr CW.380 XTP or Hydrashock?

[Ed M]

Cynthia - Perfecta ammo gave my Kahr 380s fits until i did the extractor modification found on this forum. It's made in Italy, and does not comply with SAAMI specs.

Fiocchi Extrema is made here in the US, and functioned fine in my Kahr 380s even before I did the extractor mod on them. Best part is that it's relatively inexpensive as well.

You likely missed out on Shooting the Bull's last video on the 380 Ammo Quest series. There's a new winner. Several of us here use the Underwood loading of Lehigh Defense's latest bullet design with good results.

Not cheap, but it's likely the best self defense round you can buy for a 380. https://www.underwoodammo.com/collec...=7865927761977

[gale155]

I know this is an old thread, but that seems appropriate to my question. A lot of years have pasted since the Shooting the Bull review that gave very good marks to Precision One XTP ammo for the P380. Does anyone have a comment on any possible changes in the production practices of Precision One or the reliability of the reviewed ammo? Any new reviews that might conflict with the Shooting Bull review?

I'm also a little confused by what seems conflicting info on Hornady HPs. The Shooting Bull review had Hornady CD pretty low in his review, and Hornady XTP pretty much at the top. But somewhere I read that the only difference in the 2 hornadys was that one had a polymer insert in the hollow. This doesn't seem right.

Final concern. The last post in this thread suggested that one use Fiocchi Extrema... . But I recall when I was researching my CT380, that Fiocchi Perfecta was a brand that caused feed problems because they were Italian made and didn't meet US standards of rim thickness. Are the Extrema... OK now in Kahr 380s?

Thanks all, Cynthia

I don't have chronographs, gel or any of that stuff...I do all of my testing out in the back yard using heavy metal coffee cans or heavy plastic jugs filled with water. I then ask myself if I would want to be shot with it, and if I were would it stop me from doing what I was doing (which is why we shoot in self-defense). Based on my research and my back yard testing, I carry Hornady XTP in my .380's. It has been totally reliable in my RM380 and my new-to-me CW380.

I did a little shooting this afternoon with my CW380, and feel compelled to comment about Ruger ARX 56gr ammo. I've not carried it, but I've put a box through both of my .380's. It's the only ammo I've fired that absolutely blew-up my targets...I mean blew them up. I don't know if it's the increased velocity or what, but it's been impressive to me. My RM380 will eat any ammo, but as you know the CW380 can be finicky. Mine has cycled the ARX reliably without a single malfunction of any kind. I'm not totally convinced yet, but I'm starting to think about ARX for carry.

[Cynthia S]

Hi Ed. Yes, I looked up Lehigh after I posted the thread above. It looks really good, but I would prefer not to have the extra penetration of the Underwood, so am considering the Lehigh XP. At a buck fifty a shoot (assuming I find it locally), how many rounds in my CT380 would you consider enough to prove out reliability? I figure I can afford to shoot up a magazine a month to stay familiar with the ammo.

Hi Gale. I'm thinking the extra speed of your ARX most likely means lots more penetration. Extra penetration beyond good penetration seems like more to worry about well out beyond the bad guy. Don't think I need that.

Cynthia

[DavidR]

I've watched all the ARX gel tests on YouTube and the 380 round never over penetrates. In fact, it seems to barely make the FBI minimum 12 inches. Ruger no longer makes the round, Inceptor does and the bullet shape is a little different. The flutes are not as deep as the ARX rounds were. This may actually help it to penetrate further than 12 inches.

The picture below from left to right is Inceptor ARX, Lehigh Xtreme Defense and Black Hills Honey Badger (Lehigh made bullet). The ARX and Xtreme Defense run fine in my CT380 but 1 round out of 20 with the Honey Badger jammed on the feed ramp (likely because the round is long and square at the nose). Lehigh's Xtreme Penetrator (not pictured) also cycles fine.

If you can run a box of 20 through with no issues I would say you're good.

[Ed M]

Hi Cynthia - I live less than 30 minutes away from Lehigh Defense. I wanted nickle plated cases, and they suggested Underwood, as they partner with them.

I was advised to only buy one box to run through my gun to see if it fed OK. I was also advised to use the Xtreme Defender bullet as opposed to the Xtreme Penetrator.

The XD has less penetration than the XP, but a larger wound channel. I also use the +P version to insure enough penetration, especially in winter time with heavier clothes. The XD has functioned perfectly in every 380 I've tried it in.

The +P version is a stout load - 1400 fps and 283 ft lbs of energy. The non +P is plenty potent enough at 1300 fps and 244 ft lbs of energy.

I prefer nickle plated cases for my carry ammo for durability reasons, and I also feel they're a bit slicker for smoother feeding. Nothing wrong with the Lehigh loading of these bullets, but Underwood uses Starline cases (the best), CCI primers (my favorite) and low flash powder. Best quality components money can buy.

[Cynthia S]

Well, there you go. I was not aware that there were more bullets with fluting than just the Lehigh(Underwood) XP. I guess I need to do some more research on the new candidates.

Cynthia

[SlowBurn]

FWIW Ventura Munitions sells .380 ARX in 250 round bulk boxes. Cost shipped works out about the same as buying regular FMJ ammo by the box Price allows me to use it for range and carry. Works great. It’s also light weight which is nice in a pocket pistol.
ventura-tactical-380-acp-56gr-fragmenting-fluted-rn-new-ammo-250-rounds

I've watched all the ARX gel tests on YouTube and the 380 round never over penetrates. In fact, it seems to barely make the FBI minimum 12 inches. Ruger no longer makes the round, Inceptor does and the bullet shape is a little different. The flutes are not as deep as the ARX rounds were. This may actually help it to penetrate further than 12 inches.

The picture below from left to right is Inceptor ARX, Lehigh Xtreme Defense and Black Hills Honey Badger (Lehigh made bullet). The ARX and Xtreme Defense run fine in my CT380 but 1 round out of 20 with the Honey Badger jammed on the feed ramp (likely because the round is long and square at the nose). Lehigh's Xtreme Penetrator (not pictured) also cycles fine.

If you can run a box of 20 through with no issues I would say you're good.

[gale155]

David - Ruger ARX ammo is (was?) made for Ruger by Polycase, and was simply a rebranded version of their Inceptor ARX round. Other than the name on the box the two are identical from what I can tell.

Cynthia - I'm not a big fan of ARX (yet), but I've been impressed with my limited, unscientific backyard results. The increased velocity results mainly from the lighter weight bullet. Based on the tests and reviews I've seen online, over-penetration is certainly not an issue. I don't know about the original Polycase Inceptor, but one cool thing about the Ruger version is there's 25 rounds per box, as opposed to the usual 20.

[DavidR]

David - Ruger ARX ammo is (was?) made for Ruger by Polycase, and was simply a rebranded version of their Inceptor ARX round. Other than the name on the box the two are identical from what I can tell.

Cynthia - I'm not a big fan of ARX (yet), but I've been impressed with my limited, unscientific backyard results. The increased velocity results mainly from the lighter weight bullet. Based on the tests and reviews I've seen online, over-penetration is certainly not an issue. I don't know about the original Polycase Inceptor, but one cool thing about the Ruger version is there's 25 rounds per box, as opposed to the usual 20.

If you compare the picture of the Inceptor ARX round I posted to a picture of the original Polycase or Ruger you will see that the bullet has changed.

Still 25 round boxes.

[lantern]

FWIW Ventura Munitions sells .380 ARX in 250 round bulk boxes. Cost shipped works out about the same as buying regular FMJ ammo by the box Price allows me to use it for range and carry. Works great. It’s also light weight which is nice in a pocket pistol.
ventura-tactical-380-acp-56gr-fragmenting-fluted-rn-new-ammo-250-rounds

Thank you VERY much. Ordered.