My First Concealed Carry Incident

[NavJAG06]

+1 JustinN. Your advice is both practically and legally sound. Additionally, a common scenario that may occur had dollarguy pulled his weapon and "brandished" it, is as follows: the construction guys would have called law enforcement and reported that they were minding their business when an inpatient motorist pointed a gun at them in a threatening manner. Law enforcement would have had to investigate and dollarguy could have been arrested. In some states brandishing in a threatening manner can result in a mandatory sentence. First rule of engagement... if you can safely remove yourself from a potentially or actual threatening situation, do so. NRA has a couple of excellent publications regarding self-defense inside and outside of one's residence. A good starter. Practical training with a qualified instructor along with a good primer in the law is also strongly recommended.

[johnh]

I agree, fantastic post Justin! A lot of good information in a very informative thread. I don't have any examples to post myself. I have been lucky and am glad of it. I suppose a lot of that in my experience comes from just not placing myself in places where anything is likely to happen. I am too old and slow to be in bars, out late at night, hanging around with bikers...



(lets see if the other mods notice that last comment--inside joke....)

John

[Cappy]

Dollarguy, you made the right choice, and Justin's points are very sound. When it comes to guns even when you shoot to protect yourself, you can end up in a real legal battle. When a person gets shot your world will change. I have a friend that returned fire to protect himself, and shot the guy in the chest with one shot. His world was turned up-side down for more than two years. So, if you are not a LEO - the systems will tear your story every which way until they are sure there was no other choice. In other words, the system does not assume you are properly trained to make the right decision, as they do with a LEO. So in my opinion, don't pull that gun until there is absolutely no choice. My comments are based on watching what my friend went through for more than two years, after returning fire upon a drug dealer that started shooting at him in the dark. My friends mistake, stopping his car in Detroit after dark and stepping out of his car. The wrong place at the wrong time!

[.45mac.40]

johnH ..... Ahhhhhh Maaaannnnnnnnn !

Ridin' with my BIKER friends, hanging out in bars with tha' bar girls, and staying out late at night .... that's the only way to go .... THE REST of my time ... IS WASTED !
Mac :33:

[deadhead1971]

Cappy--

Stories like yours make me think why even bother carry. If something happens and you don't carry, you die. If you do carry, you'll end up in jail, broke, and run through the system.

Did the DA file charges for political reasons?

[Cappy]

Cappy--

Stories like yours make me think why even bother carry. If something happens and you don't carry, you die. If you do carry, you'll end up in jail, broke, and run through the system.

Did the DA file charges for political reasons?

It is a long story, but yes my understanding is the DA's office went after this White, Bald, Biker who shot a man of color. My friend had a rather poor attorney in the beginning, which cost him a lot of time and money. But, to be fair, I have to say my friend goofed up too. He left the scene before getting in touch with the police. My understanding is the police still said it was self-defense from the beginning, but I understood that the DA's office said he was a “white racist” that was out on a mission to kill people of color that night. For the third trial, they finely got all the evidence admitted, which proved my friend had been telling the truth from the beginning. He shot back in self defense of the man shooting at him! I was told my friend shot one 9mm, and there were several 38 special bullets shot at my friend by the Drug Dealer. This evidence and the powder residue results off the clothing of the Drug Dealer, were never admitted as evidence until the third trial. The whole incident woke my eyes to how the system can totally destroy your life. Sorry for the long – short version. I guess the morel here is, if you shoot, make sure you do everything by the book. Immediately call the police from the scene, stay in that dark street even if there are more perpetrators there, and make sure your gun is on the ground before the police get there. My friend left because he was afraid of more druggies being in the dark that would further attack him. That was maybe his biggest mistake in the whole incident!

[paul0660]

I would have opened a window and asked the guys what the holdup was. It seems they were already pissed at the OP for some reason however. Maybe things are different in Shawnee Mission, but I don't think we got the whole story. Not shooting people who were showing the middle finger and making noise was a good idea.

[hoot]

My First Concealed/Carry Incident:

I compose this in my little personal way to relieve the stress and fear I encountered in my first concealed/carry incident. I ask no one to agree with me, but I would like to hear how you might have handled it better.

All happened going home from work last Tuesday afternoon around 6:30PM.

My license arrived in June 2009. My first encounter with pistols came last February with the arrival of an XDM 9mm. My Kahr PM9 was delivered a month ago. At work, I wear business attire with a tie, often without a coat during warm weather, I have not settled upon an IWB holster yet. Consequently, my PM 9 is between my legs in the car in a seat holster. The XDM is in a gun pouch underneath the passenger front seat, easily reachable in need if I have any thoughts of possible danger. If I am wearing a jacket, I often will put the PM9 in a pocket when I exit the car. If not it stays in the car, slid under the driver’s seat and well hidden.

I turned into a mixed apartment/town home complex about a mile from my home. Although the complex is only about 50% complete, there is around a 20% occupancy by residents of the 50% completed. Consequently, construction workers have residential traffic as well as construction traffic during the work day.

The road was completely blocked by a pickup/trailer headed as I was in my car. A very large tractor was directed at me along side of the pickup with both drivers deep in conversation. They looked at me but continued their conversation, totally blocking my access on a residential street. Around three minutes of wait time, I closed from 75 feet to 35 feet, and now received the middle finger salute from both workers. I waited another minute and now finally the tractor began to move toward me. The tractor driver did not salute again, and when he cleared, I moved forward to pass the pickup. Just as I came to about 10 feet from him, he saluted me again and took steps half way to my car.

Here I am, with 19 rounds in the XDM, but under the passenger seat. My PM9 is between my legs with 6 rounds, one chambered for action. With fear sweat breaking out on my face, my hand is on the grip but he can not see that I have a weapon. Around 5 feet away in front of the car but not blocking my progress forward, he continues saluting and telling me off. Slowly I stare ahead not making eye contact but always in sight of his stance to see if he will hit my car. As I move past him, he continues saluting me as I watch in the rear view mirror, his jaws flapping.

I am feeling a little nauseous, and more than a little shaky. As I park in the garage of my home, I sit there, thinking about what happened, and even more about what could have happened.

What if he had hit my car? He could have grabbed a hammer out of his truck very easily. The car can be fixed, and I hopefully could have gunned the gas and escaped. I am not sure if I could have kept my CC license if I had shot/killed a man bashing on my windshield. Possibly if his tool had breached my window, I would have been in real danger for my life and not been prosecuted for killing the construction worker. I do not CC for the killing of anyone. I do it only to have a chance against an aggressor. Most often, I have heard of an incident where a gun was either displayed or actually drawn and aimed, causing the aggressor(s) to flee with no rounds fired. I pray this will always happen for me.

I truly appreciate your reading this far.

I ask again, what would you have done?

…dollarguy

run away to play another day

[henryher]

I can tell you from a guy in Florida where we have a stand your ground law that you did the right thing. People call Florida the wild west because we have laws to protect law abiding citizens that have to use a gun to protect themselves. However, I have found that Florida also has many laws in the books that tell you exactly when, were and how you can shoot. We also have a three year mandatory jail sentence without probation if you brandish a gun during a an argument. The gun doesn't have to be loaded or even functional. In Florida you can stand your ground if you are in your vehicle. However, the attacker has to be in the process of trying to enter to harm you or physically trying to remove you or a passenger from the car to do bodily harm. Also if you have the ability to drive away the courts will take it into consideration also. I think you acted properly under the circumstances. What I would have done additional if possible is file a complaint first with the developer that owns the subdivision or apartment complex. Then with the contractor that hired those guys or main contractor that sub contracted them. The last thing the developer wants is the contractor's workers intimidating or in any way harrassing their tenants. This can get our to prospective buyers and kill sales of the units. In these times when the housing market is down the toilet they can't afford any problems that will discourage buyers.

[Colossal Uprising]

I have been in many fights/arguements and none of them would I consider drawing on. There are those that rush to display their weapon. I only display mine if I feel my life or the life of someone else is in danger.

I will give you an example. 2 a.m., my house is without electricity- I won't go into why. I hear the back window of my house near the pool slide open. I go back and there is a guy climbing through the window - obviously figuring noone was home because of how dark the house is.

I had a laser sight on my weapon, I brought it acrossed his eyes and onto his chest. He froze, I held him there, called the cops, and the rest is history.

Even an armed robbery for me is not necessarily time to draw my weapon - it depends on if I feel the robber is likely to use his weapon.

In my opinion, while I am sure you were nervous, you need to be aware of where your weapons is at all times, obviously, but you were too intent on it.