PM45 pocket carry - Yes, it can be done.

[Bawanna]

Umbrella's open! I'm scheduling an ice water air drop. Chill baby.

[CJB]

You expressed an opinion with which I disagreed. I offered a counter-point and that's all you can come back with to defend your position?

We now return you to your regularly scheduled program, folks.

With due respect to the Col. and to decorum, I stated the why's, the backup to my belief, and the narrow scope of its implementation.

Maybe I missed it, but why do you disagree? I've not seen one thing to state why, anything to back up your disagreement. Just a inference that my students are somehow the recipient of ill fated knowledge.

Please.... why don't you share with all of us, just how you came to your disagreement?

[LD48750]

At the very least, I'd want a Kydex or some other stiff material to cover the trigger guard and kept the trigger from catching on something. Maybe tie it to a belt loop so that it pops off automatically as soon as the gun is drawn. If it was a revolver I wouldn't be so concerned, but with the Kahr you could have little have little indication the trigger was caught on something until it fired. I can't fit the CM45, and pocket holster into any of my pants pockets, so it's not a big thing with me, but I would still want to be safe about it, if I were able to pocket carry.

Can I ask why you feel a revolver would be safer?
With similar trigger pulls and the common belief that semi-auto's can't be fired from inside pockets .....

[ScottM]

Can I ask why you feel a revolver would be safer?
With similar trigger pulls and the common belief that semi-auto's can't be fired from inside pockets .....

Similar trigger pulls? When's the last time you drew through a DA revolver?

I took my Charter Arms .38 detective special to the range yesterday and was reminded just how long and strong that pull has to be - it really is much different from a striker-fired action pistol.

[ReManG]

Thank you! Ordered two pair of khaki and a pair of shorts. I'll report how they turn out...

Please do, they work for me, but the more opinions the better! I have been impressed with the Trailhiker II's myself...

[JohnR]

What I've gathered (from reading the internet, of course) is that the main danger of pocket carry is when you're putting the gun in your pocket or taking it out, and a holster doesn't automatically eliminate that danger. The other danger is having crap in your pocket that would get in the trigger guard, then obviously a holster will help prevent an ND, so don't keep anything in that pocket with it (holster or not), and unless you have spontaneously generating little gremlins down there what could possibly cause the trigger to pull, that wouldn't pull it within a holster as well? Possibly something outside your pocket could push against it, but Your pocket is basically a holster itself, if it's snug fitting and dedicated only to the gun. I'm not saying to pocket carry without a holster, but with a Kahr I believe the chances of an ND are minimal compared to other trigger types. But don't take my word for it, take the advice of a professional.

[bsmith712]

But don't take my word for it, take the advice of a professional.

John you've added some good points. I typically avoid Internet forums unless I have research I'm working on specifically and will occasionally find a thread that catches my eye like this one. From over 20 years as a law enforcement firearms instructor and owner of a firearms training company for over 11 years I'll offer the following:

The idea of pocket carrying a firearm without a protected trigger is absurd in most instances. A misplaced finger near the trigger while putting it into the pocket is plenty enough reason to never do it but in daily life I run across dozens of things daily to pull that trigger if it were in my pocket unprotected. I suppose each persons daily activities would effect the level of danger they encounter but for myself it would be extremely dangerous. Even for an office worker who could simply have the trigger snag on a chair or table is bad enough. I run another business as well that has me constantly climbing ladders, crawling through attics, on roofs, climbing and crossing fences, cutting and removing trees and limbs, bending and hanging over ledges, carrying heavy equipment, digging trenches, operating heavy equipment...the list goes on and on. In my case I'd be highly likely to have a hole in my leg relatively quickly compared to some but there's still a level of risk in everyone's daily life that makes the practice of pocket carrying in this manner very hazardous. The firearm's trigger pull isn't very strong when it catches on an object that is heavier or will not move.

For the reasons above I cannot tolerate any pocket carry, even when done properly. Most guns of significance are way too big. I've got multiple Kahrs and none are small enough for me to do so. I demonstrate in classes with proper holsters pocket carry with a Ruger Lcp for those who'd want to consider pocket carry and it's way to big. If it's how you carry or are reading this and contemplating this as a carry method go for it. If it works for you great, but please do so in a safe manner!

[LD48750]

John you've added some good points. I typically avoid Internet forums unless I have research I'm working on specifically and will occasionally find a thread that catches my eye like this one. From over 20 years as a law enforcement firearms instructor and owner of a firearms training company for over 11 years I'll offer the following:

The idea of pocket carrying a firearm without a protected trigger is absurd in most instances. A misplaced finger near the trigger while putting it into the pocket is plenty enough reason to never do it but in daily life I run across dozens of things daily to pull that trigger if it were in my pocket unprotected. I suppose each persons daily activities would effect the level of danger they encounter but for myself it would be extremely dangerous. Even for an office worker who could simply have the trigger snag on a chair or table is bad enough. I run another business as well that has me constantly climbing ladders, crawling through attics, on roofs, climbing and crossing fences, cutting and removing trees and limbs, bending and hanging over ledges, carrying heavy equipment, digging trenches, operating heavy equipment...the list goes on and on. In my case I'd be highly likely to have a hole in my leg relatively quickly compared to some but there's still a level of risk in everyone's daily life that makes the practice of pocket carrying in this manner very hazardous. The firearm's trigger pull isn't very strong when it catches on an object that is heavier or will not move.

For the reasons above I cannot tolerate any pocket carry, even when done properly. Most guns of significance are way too big. I've got multiple Kahrs and none are small enough for me to do so. I demonstrate in classes with proper holsters pocket carry with a Ruger Lcp for those who'd want to consider pocket carry and it's way to big. If it's how you carry or are reading this and contemplating this as a carry method go for it. If it works for you great, but please do so in a safe manner!

I'll skip most of this theory and go right to a challenge.

Unload the Kahr pistol of your choice.
Cock it.
Put it in your pocket & carry it until it fires.
Report back & tell us how long it took.

If you are so clumsy that you are constantly bumping into chairs & desks or tables with enough force to pull the trigger on any gun, you need help.
I am sure you rip the pockets out of your pants everyday from what you have said. Must be expensive buying new pants everyday.

Oh... and the "professional" in your example wasn't pocket carrying, the gun was out in his hand while he was playing with the trigger.
Don't pull the trigger & you won't have to worry about a gun (even a Glock) going off.

[bsmith712]

[IMG][/IMG]

Yes indeed. I go through pants at an an alarming rate. To the point it becomes funny to take pictures of them at their deaths. Here's a bunch from the past year. I'll run through 8-10 pairs that will be shredded pretty well every 6 months or so. It wouldn't take long for my gun to go off with all the fences, limbs, ladders, pipes and boards I encounter. It's not a matter of clumsiness its a matter of crawling through attics, crawl spaces, roofs and walls where you can't even see where your legs are. For others maybe it would take a bit longer. Time is truely the only factor with that game of Russian roulette. The fact is...while likely not to occur, guns have gone off in pockets both from fingers and snagging on obstructions period. You aren't likely to get struck by lightning either but you get your butt in the house when it storms don't you? Send me your kahr and I'll run it with yours. I can barely get a pm9 in or out of my pocket so I don't know if the 45 will be able to fit. If it does I'd rather destroy your finish and frame than mine.

[el_presidente]

Please do, they work for me, but the more opinions the better! I have been impressed with the Trailhiker II's myself...

Got the khakis in the mail today. Either the shorts or the pants will work with the PM45 in pocket just fine - the depth and width is excellent. The design of the shorts is just strange, though. Sending them back. Keeping the pants for some concealed carry at work.