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Thread: P380 inital impressions - shoots low and odd bullet debris in breech area

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    California
    Posts
    4

    Default P380 inital impressions - shoots low and odd bullet debris in breech area

    Hi Folks,

    Iíve been thinking of getting a p380, but have been a little leery given the amount of issues Iíve seen while lurking on this forum. Anyway, the other day I saw a p380 at the local store that had been imported into California by someone who moved here so didnít have the mag disconnect (yaaa) nor the LCI (double yaaa) and had a nice set of trijicon night sites. It was supposedly unfired, so I decided to take the plunge.

    Today was my first time to get to the range with it. I took it apart, cleaned out the red grease stuff that was presumably from the factory, and oiled it up nicely. Anyway at the range I gave it 100 rounds of PMC bronze without a single malfunction. So considering what Iíve seen in these forums I should count myself lucky. However I do have a couple of questions for the experts.
    Firstly, I noticed what looks like little gold specks in the breach area after I fire a mag. I assume that this material is bits of the copper jacket on the bullet, but what would be doing that? I chambered a round, then ejected it and didnít see any scrapes on the bullet. Maybe it happens when the slide recoils and passes over the round in the mag. I guess it doesnít matter, but Iím worried some part is going to break eventually.

    Secondly, the p380 shoots about 6 inches low at 7 yards. It is incredibly precise; if I hold my aim at the same spot nearly all the holes are in about a 2 inch ring, but 6 inches below the point of aim. I also have a PM9 (which is awesome BTW) that shoots exactly where I point it if my grip is good. I have a glock 35, glock 27, and S&W 642 that all shoot exactly where I point them. I can even shoot an 8 to 10 inch group right on target with my 642 at 25 yards. So I donít think it is my grip or trigger control although with such a small gun the grip is tricky, but I was very careful and smooth and still the thing shoots low. After figuring out that if I hold the bottom of the front sight dot aligned with the top of the back sight dots, then the thing shoots exactly where I point it. Maybe thatís no big deal but I donít like having one pistol that requires a very different sight picture to all my others.

    Do others have this issue with their p380s? Any advice other than to change the sights? I guess I should feel good that it shot without malfunction, but Iím greedyÖ.

    Thanks for your comments!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    63

    Default

    The gold flakes are likely fine chips of the brass case from extraction/ejection; nothing to to worry about. They will mostly disappear as the sharp edges of the parts wear down.

    The sights shooting 6" low at 7 yds sounds like more than low power ammo. Have you measured the sights? Possibly someone with a P380 could compare front and rear heights for you.
    Bad decisions make good stories...

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Deep South Texas
    Posts
    131

    Default

    Muy bueno compadre!!!!!!! Good pistola ya got there.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utah
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    1,165

    Default

    Your not flinching, right? Or pulling the front of the gun down with your trigger finger?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    2,200

    Default

    Welcome to the forum!

    Is it possible that Trijicon messed up with a mismatched set of sights for the P380 sold to the previous owner? Can you get a P380 from Kahr with those sights factory installed? If so then maybe call Kahr and they can give you some specs to check?
    "I hate quotations. Tell me what you know."
    Ralph Waldo Emerson

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    1,167

    Default

    Sights must be misaligned. Check out this thread. Might need a factory fix.

    http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=24855
    Rest in peace Muggsy

    "Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world." Winston Churchill 1899

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    4,887

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by caen1944 View Post
    Hi Folks,

    Iíve been thinking of getting a p380, but have been a little leery given the amount of issues Iíve seen while lurking on this forum. Anyway, the other day I saw a p380 at the local store that had been imported into California by someone who moved here so didnít have the mag disconnect (yaaa) nor the LCI (double yaaa) and had a nice set of trijicon night sites. It was supposedly unfired, so I decided to take the plunge.

    Today was my first time to get to the range with it. I took it apart, cleaned out the red grease stuff that was presumably from the factory, and oiled it up nicely. Anyway at the range I gave it 100 rounds of PMC bronze without a single malfunction. So considering what Iíve seen in these forums I should count myself lucky. However I do have a couple of questions for the experts.
    Firstly, I noticed what looks like little gold specks in the breach area after I fire a mag. I assume that this material is bits of the copper jacket on the bullet, but what would be doing that? I chambered a round, then ejected it and didnít see any scrapes on the bullet. Maybe it happens when the slide recoils and passes over the round in the mag. I guess it doesnít matter, but Iím worried some part is going to break eventually.

    Secondly, the p380 shoots about 6 inches low at 7 yards. It is incredibly precise; if I hold my aim at the same spot nearly all the holes are in about a 2 inch ring, but 6 inches below the point of aim. I also have a PM9 (which is awesome BTW) that shoots exactly where I point it if my grip is good. I have a glock 35, glock 27, and S&W 642 that all shoot exactly where I point them. I can even shoot an 8 to 10 inch group right on target with my 642 at 25 yards. So I donít think it is my grip or trigger control although with such a small gun the grip is tricky, but I was very careful and smooth and still the thing shoots low. After figuring out that if I hold the bottom of the front sight dot aligned with the top of the back sight dots, then the thing shoots exactly where I point it. Maybe thatís no big deal but I donít like having one pistol that requires a very different sight picture to all my others.

    Do others have this issue with their p380s? Any advice other than to change the sights? I guess I should feel good that it shot without malfunction, but Iím greedyÖ.

    Thanks for your comments!
    Sounds like the sights are fine to me........................if you wanted a clone of your other firearms, maybe you should have bought the same firearm again............................................. .

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    California
    Posts
    4

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    Thank you all for the prompt replies, and finding that other thread in particular!

    I don't think that I am flinching. I don't flinch with my 642 and +p ammo, although 50 rounds of practice is plenty from that baby. Comparatively, the PM9 and p380 are like shooting a pillow, just really comfortable and fun. Also, I used to flinch more when I started shooting pistols years ago and it really caused the groups to open up as well as move location.

    Now that you guys mentioned it, looking at the sights it seems that front sight post actually has a little bit of space between it and the slide, like it rides a little high. I can easily stick my thumbnail in there. It's not as much distance as I need to apply for my kentucky elevation correction, but it does make me wonder if the right sights are on there, maybe a mismatched front and back. I will send a message to Kahr and see if they can send me the specs. I don't know any other p380 owners locally, and they don't seem to be a very popular pistol around here, maybe because the california compliant version is so annoying and that CCW's are somewhat hard to get.

    Regardless, if the pistol continues to function perfectly like it did in the first 100 rounds I will be quite happy even if I can't fix up the accuracy. As others have said, this isn't a target pistol. As long as I can qualify at 15 yards, I can't imagine a real world situation where I'd be taking the time to line up the sights.

    I'll let you all know what I find out, in case it helps any other p380 owner.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    63

    Default

    There will be a slight space visible between the blade and slide on a dovetailed sight. It keeps the blade from marring the top of the slide on the way to center.
    Measure your sight heights. The front should be about .010" taller than the rear (my best guess for the P380).
    The adjustment for 6" low on a 3.8" sight radius at 7 yds will be .090". If you have ruled out poor grip and sight picture; have let another shooter verify the low impact and; don't find a large difference in sight height, then something else is wrong and a discussion with Kahr would be in order.
    Bad decisions make good stories...

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    California
    Posts
    4

    Default

    Thank you TennSCN. You might be on to something. Measuring with my caliper, the front sight is ~0.1715" above the slide, and the rear sight is ~0.1210" above the slide, so a difference of about 0.05". Until I hear back from Kahr, I don't know what these are supposed to be but after looking at a bunch of pictures on the internet of p380s, it seems that most photos (including the one on Kahr's website best I can tell) show a lower profile front sight than mine has. My front sight has exactly the same profile as the front sight on my PM9 including rise above the slide, however my PM9 rear sight (neither are night sights) sits much higher than my p380 rear sight. In fact it sits at almost exactly the same rise above the slide as the front sight. Since the gun had a previous owner, maybe the sights om my p380 aren't what came on the gun. I'll see what Kahr customer service says and let you all know. Thanks!

    Edit: On more websurfing, I think that this might be it. I didn't think anything of it, but my the tritium dots on my rear sight have a little white circle around them, but there is no such circle on around the tritium tube on my front sight. I found this post:

    http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.p...ghts-my-review

    where the white circle is clearly visible on his front sight. So unless that white paint fell out, it seems likely that my sights are not part of the same set.

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