MK9 v. MK40 <> (?)

[Monadnock]

Good info guys but it seems I'm still on the fence.. I shot some Underwood .40 the other day with HST in the same mag. It was day and night, the difference between them but still I think it might even be more dramatic with the 9mm and even more worthwhile with the extra bu-lets capacity..

I agree about just getting the K9 but I'm really looking for a swap out for a Baby Glock.. With the right stiff leather pocket carry holster, I think an MK can be carried easily.. I pocket my G27 and it's just a little lighter, both are perfect for waist.

[finpro]

In a defensive situation, you'll probably have to shoot just once with a .40. I don't find the recoil much different than 9mm. With the Kahr triggers, you're not going to be doing double taps any time soon. This crud about not being able to get back on target fast enough is a wheel barrel full of baloney. You'll have plenty of time to get back on target, especially with that trigger.

Re: "In a defensive situation, you'll probably have to shoot just once with a .40." That is true, unless you miss or have a poor hit or unless the hit is insufficient for any reason or unless there are more than a single attacker or whatever... Increasingly the modern belief is that a modern defensive 9mm is essentially as effective as a .40. Even in larger, heavier service pistols, police departments find better marksmanship scores with 9mms. You are right that Kahrs are, by design, not super fast shooters, but 9mms can be shot faster than comparable .40s, especially in Kahr-sized pistols. With practice, Kahrs can be shot with reasonably speed, certainly as fast as a revolver. I think for any defensive application, there it an optimal setup for each individual. Regarding the 9mm vs. .40, in smaller, lighter pistols, especially those too small to accommodate a four finger grip, I think this mostly favors a 9mm, as long as quality defensive ammunition is used.

[Bawanna]

About 80% of the conversation lately is about 380's. Give me the 9 over the 40 in a compact Kahr any day.

That is if I ever decide to give up my 45 which I don't anticipate any time in the remainder of my life time or the next 2 or 3 lifetimes.

It's a vicious circle these caliber wars. I spent years getting the department issued 45's. Now the talk is this better accuracy and more capacity with a 9. Now the optical sights and MOS Glocks are quite the topic.
Of course in usual fashion, none of the new toys are available for anything but 9's. I sense completing the circle and having a bunch of mouse guns back in officer holsters. No matter really, they frown on them shooting folks and never shot anybody anyhow so maybe they are onto something.

I also see 9mm sub guns (MP5's) are back in vogue. Glad they didn't trade off the two we got, when it's popular again they'll want to have them on hand.

I think I'm allergic to meaningless trends. Do you think I need an evaluation?

[yqtszhj]

I think I'm allergic to meaningless trends. Do you think I need an evaluation?

I can totally relate to that. Popular opinion sends me running the oposite direction because it changes like the wind.

I figure carry what I shoot good and shoot good what I carry. Everything else is for range fun or backup.

That being said I want a CZ Scorpion with a stock (think SBR) but don't want to deal with the form 1 and everything that goes with it. When are they going to repeal the NFA??? Not holding my breath.

[berettabone]

Call me crazy, but I'll take .40 or .45 over any other caliber, as a first choice. I don't shoot .40 out of my Kahr. I shoot .40 out of firearms that I believe handle the caliber much more fluidly. But I would never dissuade anyone from shooting .40 out of a Kahr, it's not anything that's not handle able. Crazier things have happened.

[finpro]

This is perfectly sensible for ballistic performance prior to the last decade or so, or if modern defensive ammunition cannot be used. FMJ and older hollow point 9mm ammo did not do as well in fast incapacitation compared to larger calibers. Defensive ammo design improvements make this considerably less significant now. I think everyone agrees on this basic fact, though it may not sway their opinion of what to carry. Also, I would not disagree as much if discussing heavier and larger pistols or use against dangerous animals. This discussion is about smallish Kahrs, with short grips, for defense against human aggression. Civilian defensive shootings are usually at close range, with 2 to 4 rounds fired very quickly. This suggests speed, accuracy and shot placement are more likely to be decisive than smallish ballistic advantages. This is the increasing consensus of experts, most obviously in the FBI, which basically invented the .40 S&W to improve on 9mm performance three decades ago. Now, in their infinite wisdom, the G-Men are returning to 9mms. They found the larger caliber advantages to have shrunk in pistols of the size they want to issue, which are larger than Kahrs.
I am happy we mostly have the freedom to shoot what we prefer. Stay safe and good luck with whatever you choose. Yea USA!

[Bawanna]

Actually the FBI invented the 10mm only to find that guns of the era couldn't hold up to it and most agents couldn't handle it either. So it was de-tuned and called a 40.

[finpro]

You are absolutely right! The 10mm came first. As you mentioned, it was too hot for many agents and guns to handle and, due to its .45 ACP cartridge length, the pistols were larger than was comfortable for many agents, especially women, to carry concealed. After de-tuning their 10mm ammo to .40 S&W levels, they decided it would be better to just go with a shorter, 9mm length round and specify smaller pistols.

[Monadnock]

I do like my K40. Just shot 100 rounds today at lunch. I did some up close, fast fire drills, emptying a few mags into an envelope- the ones the credit card applications came in. At 15 feet I was able to rapid fire, as fast as I could get the gun back on target and was pleased with the results. 7 rounds, 7 holes but I think it would be a different result in the MK40, at least until I got used to it..I'd like to be all on one caliber but got such a good deal on the K40e, 5 mags, 2 holsters, that I bought it, in part maybe to keep my other .40 company, when in truth I was looking more for a K9. Now I have the K40 and really really really like it, I'm conflicted. Such are the troubles of modern life. We should all be so lucky.

[finpro]

Enjoy your K40. Though I do not like .40 S&W pistols generally, I have always had some interest in a K40, though I have never fired one. The K40's full grip, low bore axis and reasonable weight make it as small a pistol as I would ever like have in .40. In my experience, steel Kahrs shoot better than polymer Kahrs, though my polymer Kahrs are much older than my K9, so this comparison may no longer be valid. Polymer Kahrs carry better, however.