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Thread: New cw380 first shots

  1. #11

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    Great replies guys. This has to be a record for me. Everything post was actually very helpful. On the down side now I have too many fixes and have to pick which one to try first.
    Markman’s pin fix sounds the easiest and most important the cheapest to fix if I mess up. I’ll keep racking and cleaning and working it in until I figure out where to start. On the other hand, I could do nothing and just run the ammo it works 100% with.


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  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed M View Post
    Have 2 CW380s and a P380.

    The CW380s ran Fiocchi/Perfecta about 50% reliably, but the P380 wouldn't chamber it at all.

    Did the extractor mods myself, as I couldn't see asking Kahr to fix a problem that didn't exist running the recommended domestic made ammo, and the fact that I was only working on a $15 part.

    Worst case scenario was that I'd have to replace the extractor if I messed something up.

    All three 380s now run 100% with any ammo I feed them. It was worth it to me to do the extractor mods, as I have a pretty large stash of Perfecta 380 ammo on hand.
    Which mod on which part of the extractor did you do?


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  3. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    231

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    If you go this route, just remember what I posted previously. That you can check your extractor tension before you do any mods just to see if it is too much or not. It’s one way to possibly eliminate a suspected problem before you disassemble the pistol. And the best thing, it won't cost you a dime!

    Markman’s pin fix sounds the easiest and most important the cheapest to fix if I mess up.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by markman View Post
    If you go this route, just remember what I posted previously. That you can check your extractor tension before you do any mods just to see if it is too much or not. It’s one way to possibly eliminate a suspected problem before you disassemble the pistol. And the best thing, it won't cost you a dime!
    Wouldn’t I have to pay a gunsmith with the tools to measure it?


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  5. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    134

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    [QUOTE=mpgo4th;394410]Great replies guys. This has to be a record for me. Everything post was actually very helpful. On the down side now I have too many fixes and have to pick which one to try first.
    Markman’s pin fix sounds the easiest and most important the cheapest to fix if I mess up. I’ll keep racking and cleaning and working it in until I figure out where to start. On the other hand, I could do nothing and just run the ammo it works 100% with.


    In another thread I reported on my CW380 experience with the Remingtom green box ammo -- the chamber was too tight to accommodate the ammo, but I have confirmed that Sig V-Crown and Hydra-Shocks run perfectly in my gun (as well as Monarch FMJ!). Tight chambers have been discussed previously in the threads. Rather than starting down the path of modifications that I am not experienced in, I am choosing to continue running the ammo that has proven to work.

    Good Luck with your new CW -- I am pretty happy with mine when using compatible ammo.
    Based on your experience, I will give the Critical Defense a try.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    231

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    No, I just measured it by putting a 1/4" x 2" hex head cap screw head down on my postal scale and zeroed it. Then I slowly pushed a empty case from under the extractor with the slide off the pistol and upside down. It actually should work with any pistol. I hope I explained it well enough, if not let me know and I'll try to post a pic or 2 tomorrow when I get a chance. Like they say, a picture is worth a thousand words!


    Wouldn’t I have to pay a gunsmith with the tools to measure it?

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    759

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    Quote Originally Posted by mpgo4th View Post
    Which mod on which part of the extractor did you do?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    On a Kahr facebook group page, there are several Kahr employees that post frequently (including the Director of Marketing). They report that the 380 feed problems are almost always caused by two things.

    Insufficient extractor to breech face clearance, and a chamber that is a thousandth or two too tight. Not a single mention of extractor tension.

    I did the rounding of the bottom edge of the extractor claw (and polished it) first. It helped, but didn't solve the feed issues completely.

    I then took .004" off the inside of the extractor post, resulting in an overall diameter of .015 on the post. This did the trick for me.

    On all my Kahrs, I polish the entire barrel exterior, and also the chamber entrance and feed ramp.

    Now, I don't have to use the slide release to chamber the first round. I can even ride the slide home, and it doesn't hang up at all. Between my three Kahr 380s, I have several thousand rounds post mods, and they all function slick and flawlessly.

    Best as I can tell, this is what Kahr would do if you sent your 380 in to them for feed issues. The last one I did (P380) took all of 15 minutes to do.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    1,228

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    Quote Originally Posted by mpgo4th View Post
    I picked up my new CW380 today. It was an anniversary present to me from my wife. I’m fully aware of the problems with this 380 but I have other guns to depend on, so I figured I’d give it a shot anyway. Ammo choices are crappy right now. I got 150 rounds of Remington umc fmj and one box of hornady critical defense. Just like everything I’ve seen online, I had many failures today. Failure to go into battery over and over. He UMC failed every two or three rounds. I had magazines that I had to hit the back of the slide every round to load it. I shot fifty rounds and the malfunctions didn’t seem to get better or worse. I loaded up the hornady and tried again. The critical defense ran perfectly. Not one bobble. Overall I’m still glad I bought this gun. I knew what I was getting into. Now my problem is do I keep shooting and only run ammo that I know works, send it to Kahr or try to file the extractor myself? I can’t decide what to do.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Since you have other guns to depend on and don't need it right now for edc, send it in. Let them fix it, don't risk voiding the warranty. My $0.02
    Rest in peace Muggsy

    "Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world." Winston Churchill 1899

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
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    231

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    Insufficient extractor to breech face clearance, and a chamber that is a thousandth or two too tight. Not a single mention of extractor tension.
    Why is there even a spring in the extractor assembly if it doesn't rely on tension? Why even have a spring? Why don't they just have a fixed extractor with the "proper breech face clearance" ? That's what the spring is for, different case tolerance's and to allow the case to slide under the extractor at an angle untill it feeds into the chamber. By removing metal from the inside of the extractor pin to move it forward, you're actually reducing the spring tension. Like I mentioned previously, what happens when you get a case at the other end of the spectrum, an undersized rim. Could you be possibly setting your self up where you have too much breech face clearance? Your extractor should hold a loaded round with enough tension to keep the round in place even if you try it with the slide removed from the pistol. This is true for all pistols, not just Kahrs. I'm sure there has got to be some machinists here. Tolerance stacking, you have at least 5 components in the extractor chain. The slide, rear cover, rear pin, spring and extractor. All of them are manufactured/machined with in a certain tolerance. It is physically impossible to have all the parts the exact same size every time, even today. If many are at the small or large end of the tolerances that where the stacking becomes involved. Just look how people are getting results by just removing small amounts of metal! I would have to believe that's what causes most FTF/ FTX problems (other than a tight chamber). That's why most people don't have problems but some do.

    https://www.brownells.com/aspx/learn...aspx?lid=10261

    FAILURE TO FEED
    In most instances, an extractor that is adjusted too tightly (too much extractor tension) will cause a failure to feed. In this condition, the case head is not allowed to travel up, into the breech face because the rim of the cartridge never becomes fully-seated under the extractor hook.

    Excessive extractor tension can also cause the extractor to dig into the cartridge rim, which is made of brass. This will cause inconsistent feeding or an intermittent feeding problem.

    Refer to View “A”. This illustration shows the end of the extractor as if you were looking at the breech face from the muzzle end but it shows the extractor hook only. You will see on the left what the majority of extractor hooks are machined like. We want to radius the lower portion of the hook as shown in the illustration on the right. This area, when left with a sharp transition, can dig into brass and impede feeding.

    The second problem area, View “B” is a view of the extractor from the same vantage point with the hook removed. You will see a small bevel where the case slides up the extractor face that usually has a sharp intersection. I take a small needle file and radius this intersection to smooth up the transition point.

    When examining your brass you will find small dings on the rim of your brass, this is the area of the extractor that causes it. Similarly with the hook not being radiused you will find small dings in the web of your brass.

    FAILURE TO EXTRACT
    Failures to extract are usually related to an extractor with too little tension. With too little tension, the brass is not held securely long enough in the cycle to be properly ejected. The brass is allowed to loosely float around as the pistol cycles. The brass hits the ejector in a non-uniform manner and ejection is very random. One case may be tossed several feet, another case may just barely clear the edge of the ejection port.
    Last edited by markman; 01-21-2018 at 11:28 AM.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    231

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    On a Kahr facebook group page, there are several Kahr employees that post frequently (including the Director of Marketing). They report that the 380 feed problems are almost always caused by two things.

    Insufficient extractor to breech face clearance, and a chamber that is a thousandth or two too tight. Not a single mention of extractor tension.
    Is it possible the reason some people have to send there pistol back to Kahr multiple times is because maybe there is a different problem. How about the many thousands of Kahr pistols that don't have the "updated extractor" that work just fine. I originally had one of the first MK9's before they even made the polymer pistols. Then when the polymer's came out, I had one of the first PM9's. It also had a FTF problem. It isn't just the 380's with that problem. Properly setting the extractor tension resolved the problem. I also had 2 of the first P9's, no problem with either. Then years ago I sold or traded all of them. Within the last 10 years I picked up a CM9, a CW380 and a CT380. All 3 had a FTF problem. The 380 has a so called "updated extractor" but what about the 9's that people have a problem with. Design flaw, I don't think so, too many of them out there that work just fine, including some of my previous owned ones. All of them cured with proper setting of the extractor tension. Now no offense to any body that works for a living, because that's I do, but I don't tend to get my info from a "Director of Marketing" or a paid employee who has to do what they are told to do. I try to get my info from someone who actually runs the business. Who's knowledge and skills actually keep them and their families fed and earn them a reputation in the business. Through out the years talking to many gunsmiths I have never heard them refer to "proper breech face clearance" for FTF problems until I got here. Every single one pointed to the extractor tension as a place to start first. YMMV

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