New cw380 first shots

[markman]

Great pictures and description Marksman. If I ever run into trouble I will certainly try this.

I'd appreciate if anyone with a proper feeding pistol would take the time to measure and post there tension readings. It might be helpful for me and others for that valuable info just to compare. Like I'm try to stress, this may not be the only issue, but it cured the problem in all 3 of mine. Thanks in advance.

[mpgo4th]

This has been an interesting thread, to say the least.

Thanks to some fine detective work by markman, the root cause of many Kahr 380 feed problems may have been identified.

It'd be a lot easier to identify "problem" guns during the assembly process by simply measuring the extractor tension.

Kahr could easily set up a measuring system, and use it for both the initial assembly process, and also for their repair system process.

Certainly would be easier to modify the rear pin, than messing with extractor dimensions.

Perhaps Kahr should be made aware of this information - it might save a lot of headaches for both customers and Kahr themselves.

Kahr is aware. I spoke with Rob in customer service about repairing this issue myself instead of sending it in. He told me that they have relayed this information to the engineers multiple times and they are waiting for a design change to come along. I was told that extractor clearance and chamber tolerances are the main problems with the 380's. CW and P series.

[mpgo4th]

I'd appreciate if anyone with a proper feeding pistol would take the time to measure and post there tension readings. It might be helpful for me and others for that valuable info just to compare. Like I'm try to stress, this may not be the only issue, but it cured the problem in all 3 of mine. Thanks in advance.

Done. I performed the adjustment just like you did in the photos. Before disassembly I was getting 2 pounds 2 ounces to 2 pounds 4 ounces tension on the extractor assembly. This gun wouldn't chamber Remington using the slide release. I removed the back cover and the rear extractor pin. I measured the length a 0.438 inches. I used a flat file layed on my desk and my fingers holding the pin to rub back and forth on the file. Every three or four passes I rotated the pin to keep it as true to flat as I could. I removed .020 of an inch for a new overall length of 0.418 on the rear pin. While apart I used 240 grit sand paper to knock the point off the extractor bottom itself. Very little was done to the extractor, just shaped up the point. I reassembled to check it. Now on the scale I get 1 pound 11 ounces to 1 pound 12 ounces tension. I loaded a mag of the Remington problem ammo. I can now hand rack and eject the whole mag with easy. I haven't got to live fire yet but the chambering is so much improved that I'm sure it can't be any worse. Thanks to all that help and Markman your details and pictures made the difference.

[markman]

Kahr is aware. I spoke with Rob in customer service about repairing this issue myself instead of sending it in. He told me that they have relayed this information to the engineers multiple times and they are waiting for a design change to come along. I was told that extractor clearance and chamber tolerances are the main problems with the 380's. CW and P series.

That's the problem, it's not extractor clearance like they keep saying, it's extractor tension. Two entirely different things! They're relaying the wrong info. Oh well.

[mpgo4th]

Update. I just went out and shot 112 rounds through my CW 380. All ammo function 100% including 50 rounds of the Remington UMC that was jamming horribly my first time out. I appreciate all the help on this repair and I’m very glad I tried to fix it myself instead of sending it back to the factory. I will continue to shoot and update but in my opinion this firearm is fixed


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[erichard]

That's the problem, it's not extractor clearance like they keep saying, it's extractor tension. Two entirely different things! They're relaying the wrong info. Oh well.

Would be good to pin this down (so to speak), which it is, or do either accomplish a similar goal albeit from different strategies. Shortening the rear extractor pin would be preferable as it is easier to do and not make a mistake. Also cheaper to replace I imagine. I did modify my extractor, and it does now work, but I could see how I could just as easily have buggered it up by changing the geometry, taking off too much etc. I was venturing a bit far off my reservation doing that one. Plus if all Kahr has to do is install shorter rear pins, it should be a very low cost fix for them to implement.

It might be interesting to do a blind trial on problem ammo, same gun but using a modified extractor with normal rear pin, and then secondly a modified rear pin with a normal extractor. See which one produced the most failures to feed. The problem with the experiment however is that there is no real standardized way to modify the extractor, especially if you're not a machinist/gunsmith.

In the end, though, if the shortened rear pin works 100% for everybody's problem gun, then clearly that is good enough. Probably won't get that result universally but maybe in large numbers.

[mpgo4th]

Just wanted to update the forum on my repair. I have fired another 50 rounds of ammo through this cw380. This time it was my carry mag of critical defense and a box of federal American eagle fmj. All fired and ejected 100%. I now have 162 trouble free rounds through this gun since adjusting the extractor tension. Love this little gun.


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[500c]

in my case (p380), 4yrs old, 1700 rounds, $1500 invested in ammo, range time, and gun, and three trips to the factory, Kahr is now claiming that i (and my wife) are allowing 'too much muzzle fli/rise) when shooting. so it's now 'blame the shooter' (you can see more of this in another thread).

this is possibly true, because the 2 vids they sent me has an employee successfully firing one, and his form has almost zero muzzle flip.

otoh, it's implausible because i have 45 yrs of experience, my wife 20, with over a dozen guns (some v tight, eg a les baer premier iI, of course it's a 45) and never ever a single one with these problems. nada.

anyway, i asked them to tell me in writing that their guns (at least 380's) will NOT function properly if one allows 'too much muzzle jump' (however much that is). try to imagine being in a 'situation' with this EDC and having to ask the bad guy to stand still while you check your grip etc...right?

bottom line after all the time and money and frustration: if this is actually true of this gun, i would never have gone down this road. not.

[dustnchips]

500c, I have trouble believing the muzzle flip explanation Kahr gave you since you are an experienced shooter. If you are curious about the truth of it you could have a couple of other shooters try it. For the amount of effort it would take to shorten the pin that presses against the extractor spring I would certainly give it a try. You are so far into the gun that it would be worth it. If it cures the problem and you still won't trust the gun you can at least sell it as a functioning gun and recoup a bit of your investment without feeling you cheated someone. I have a CW380 that gave me some problems the first 100 rounds and has now been 100% for over 2000 rounds. They are a great size for a pocket. Good luck.

[500c]

thanks dust i too have a hard time with kahr's 'explanation', thus my sarcasm, my wife, also an experienced shooter, has had the same probs with it.

as for the pin, my reluctance stems from the fact that they have changed so much, including the extractor twice, and they see the myriad compaints, and service them extensively (daily, hundreds overall)..it's just so hard to believe that they have overlooked something so simplle. follow?

i hear your reasoing though and it surely makes some sense. i'll consider it before sending it back again.