Sabre Red Pepper spray....

[Crusader8207]

Oh man what a day. Today I had the "pleasure" (input sarcasm font) of participating in a LEO Saber Red Instructor Course. Oh Lord Jesus, that stuff is wicked. Before we had the pleasure (sarcasm again) of getting sprayed with that delightful (dang sarcasm) stuff (in 100 degree heat outside mind you), we learned about the different potencies of the different sprays out there. Saber Red, is the only company on the market that employs chemists that confirm each and every batch of their product is a the level they say it is. For our contamination, we used the Level III law enforcement (1.33% Capsaicinoids) which is the highest they produce.

The last time I had been sprayed with pepper spray in training, was in the early 90's when I first became an LEO. I vaguely remember that day, but I remember it sucked. Fast forward 20 something years and man did it suck even more. I can't tell you what brand we had used back then but I don't think it was near as hot as this stuff is. The lead instructor did his best to keep our exposure to a minimum, but we did have to feel the effects as to what it does, specifically if we were to be subpoenaed in court in a use of force case as well as know what our students would go through. He stood about 3 feet away and did a swipe from ear to ear at our eyes with one quick motion. He used the gel product and then hit it with inert to run it into our eye. OH MY GOD!!! That stuff lit me on fire!!! Immediately I could not breathe, my eyes forced closed but they kept telling us to open our eyes (made it even worse), and the mucus membranes started running. I've seen many people get hit with this stuff before but man on man. It truly sucks. To help get us decontaminated, they used a product called Sabre Cleanse and Sabre Soothe. Highly recommended. 8 hours later, I still feel the effects of being sprayed but I think the decontamination products are worth the investment if you carry pepper spray. Oh an I think everyone should carry pepper spray and know where it fits in on the use of force chart (which is between a harsh word and hands on).

[Bawanna]

I got sprayed about 4 years ago, my son who came to watch did it too. Misery loves company I guess.

We didn't have any of the decontaminate, we had a tub of water and fans to blow in our face.

Head on fire instant major runny nose and mucous as you mentioned. Burned clear to the back of the head.

I feel your pain.

In my youth, my mother was a mail man, guess mail carrier is the PC term. I accidentally sprayed myself with dog spray they carried.
That was long long ago but I think that stuff was even worse. Burned something fierce.

[wyntrout]

I've got the one with CS as well. I've been "using" or carrying it for over 20 years. I get new about every 4-7 years. I tried to see if it still worked after about 7 years or more... just spraying it towards the ground... managed to get the barest whiff and a bit of eye action, but not significant, thank goodness... wasn't trying to spray myself... scary!! It has dye as well, visible and UV detectable... good stuff. The range is pretty good, too, 15 to 20 feet, but be observant of the wind!

[gb6491]

Crusader8207, thanks for the report on the effectiveness of Saber Red! Wynn, I appreciate your input on it as well!

I started carrying their gel spray a few years ago, but have not had to use it, so it's good to hear from those with first hand experience.
I like the pouch the gel comes with, but have found it's carries fairly well in the front pockets of cargo shorts.


Bawanna,
As your son shared the misery with you, you might ask him how that compares with the stuff Uncle Sam's Misguided Children has exposed him to.

Regards,
Greg

[AJBert]

I can speak to what the military uses as I've been sprayed numerous times until I retired. The first time is by far the worse. Instantly your face melts off of your skull. Instantly. Then you have to go through a series of "obstacles", read as instructors that you must "disable" using your hands and/or baton. If you keep your eyes closed during any of this you lose, in more ways than one.

At the end of the course there was water to flush your eyes and face. Didn't help get your face back on your skull but felt better than not using it. For the rest of the day it felt like you had the worst sunburn on your face.

Just when things start to feel normal, you go and take a shower and it all starts over again. Water reactivates the stuff. All I know about the spray the military uses is that it is CS. We had to recertify every year. Fun times for sure!

But to be honest, after the first time it doesn't affect you nearly as much mentally. You know you can still perform your duties as required after being sprayed, you can still see and you can still breath. The pain is the same but you know you can get through it.

Detainees in Iraq had their CS delivered via finned paint balls shot out of a paint ball gun on steroids built by FN. Accurate out to 100 meters. Drum magazine with 12-15 rounds. Sure wish I had one, it was a blast to shoot. No, we never had to be the target.

[Bawanna]

Wrong son Greg, this was my older son. We had to do the obstacle thing as described above. Fight a red man, shoot a simunition gun, unlock a car door, get in and key the radio.

My son aced it all but he'd never unlocked a car door before so that was the biggest issue. He dead centered the target with the sim gun.
He said he could still see some. Told him everyone can see some, it's what you do with what you can see.

[Armybrat]

Never have been pepper sprayed, but 30 years ago I did have a ND with my little tear gas cartridge pen gun. Shot myself right in the family jewels while rummaging around in a shoebox full of junk in the walk in closet.

[Crusader8207]

You are welcome. That is the good stuff right there. Just like the gun, it's a good thing to not have had to use it, but comforting to know that you have it. Effective distance on the gel is 12-15 feet. The instructor told us it's important to test the canister periodically as anything mechanical can and will eventually fail. He also recommends weighing the canister when you first get it, re weight it after any test fires, and also weigh it at minimum quarterly. This will show you if there are any issues with the seals. They also said that the product itself really doesn't have a shelf life as it is a food grade product, stored in a sterile canister. The issue at hand with the expiration date is more in line with the seals and the canister itself. He said weather, humidity, and life in general can cause them to fail. They recommend a 5 year replacement.

[Crusader8207]

I can speak to what the military uses as I've been sprayed numerous times until I retired. The first time is by far the worse. Instantly your face melts off of your skull. Instantly. Then you have to go through a series of "obstacles", read as instructors that you must "disable" using your hands and/or baton. If you keep your eyes closed during any of this you lose, in more ways than one.

At the end of the course there was water to flush your eyes and face. Didn't help get your face back on your skull but felt better than not using it. For the rest of the day it felt like you had the worst sunburn on your face.

Just when things start to feel normal, you go and take a shower and it all starts over again. Water reactivates the stuff. All I know about the spray the military uses is that it is CS. We had to recertify every year. Fun times for sure!

But to be honest, after the first time it doesn't affect you nearly as much mentally. You know you can still perform your duties as required after being sprayed, you can still see and you can still breath. The pain is the same but you know you can get through it.

Detainees in Iraq had their CS delivered via finned paint balls shot out of a paint ball gun on steroids built by FN. Accurate out to 100 meters. Drum magazine with 12-15 rounds. Sure wish I had one, it was a blast to shoot. No, we never had to be the target.

Interesting and definitely good to know. I have no intentions of getting sprayed again.

[CPTKILLER]

There are situations where good pepper spray or CS is OK. In others, a concealed carry pistol is ALWAYS necessary as a primary or backup weapon.