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Thread: .40 S&W dead - yes or no

  1. #11
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    That was my experience, too, but I got that Mag-na-ported from our Marketplace and upgraded to the DLC and a ported barrel... works for me. I love the P45, too.

    9mm isn't my favorite, but the P9 is a backup, and I do have Wifey's G43 and a Lonewolf threaded 9mm conversion barrel for the G23C... very accurate. I have plenty of 9mm mags for that, too, not all Glock... even a 33-rd Korean mag that works. I have one for the G23C, too.

    You really have to test those "Asian" mags for function and reliability... bought 20 each 9mm and .40 for resale once, I had to take a razor knife to the retention notch... not pronounced enough... mag would fall out after each shot! All three that I tested, 9mm, had that problem. The .40's were okay.
    USAF Retired '88, NRA Life Member. Wife USAF Retired '96
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    and

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  2. #12
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    My old agency (ICE) is transitioning away from .40 now. It's not that there's anything wrong with .40, just that 9mm technology has enabled that round to sneak up on its bigger brother a bit, while still allowing less experienced shooters to get back on target faster and with more accuracy.

    Most of my pistols for home defense/range work are in .40, and my pistol/carbine duo (Glock 27 and KT Sub2000) is in .40. I love the round, find it fun to shoot, and am confident that it will do the job if need be. In my experience, finding a deal in them at the LGS or on gunbroker is pretty easy.

    p.s. That being said, I'm not a caliber snob, and will usually reach for the gun that fits my wardrobe the best on any given day, and in the summer that is often my Kimber Solo (9mm) or one of my micros in .380. I think I've convinced myself, after a lot of research, that any round that will hit the FBI penetration range with even the smallest amount of expansion will do the trick...even more so if you can put multiple rounds in center mass/cranium, at which point the differences amongst the calibers shrink down to the infinitesimal.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenemoore View Post

    I recall during the Sandy Hook fiasco, .40 was the only ammo on the shelf in many stores.

    -Ken
    That right there is the BEST endorsement for the .40 S&W. I recall before that happened that all the preppers said the best calibers to own when the SHTF is 9mm and .223/5.56 because there was so much available. They were the first rounds to disappear off the shelves followed by .22.

    Another round that was still on the shelves was the .41 mag. Couldn't find .38 special, .357 mag nor .44 mag. To me that proved that having the most popular calibers was not necessarily a good thing.

    Oh, I don't own a 9mm. I don't want one nor need one. I'm more than happy with my K40 and the slightly bigger hole it punches. I REALLY like the .45acp's I have but they are full size 1911's. Not too great for concealed carry. I got my wife a metal framed sub-compact .380 that is a great shooter for concealed carry and she loves it.

    Wait, I guess we do have a 9mm after all!

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by boscobarbell View Post
    My old agency (ICE) is transitioning away from .40 now. It's not that there's anything wrong with .40, just that 9mm technology has enabled that round to sneak up on its bigger brother a bit, while still allowing less experienced shooters to get back on target faster and with more accuracy.

    Most of my pistols for home defense/range work are in .40, and my pistol/carbine duo (Glock 27 and KT Sub2000) is in .40. I love the round, find it fun to shoot, and am confident that it will do the job if need be. In my experience, finding a deal in them at the LGS or on gunbroker is pretty easy.

    p.s. That being said, I'm not a caliber snob, and will usually reach for the gun that fits my wardrobe the best on any given day, and in the summer that is often my Kimber Solo (9mm) or one of my micros in .380. I think I've convinced myself, after a lot of research, that any round that will hit the FBI penetration range with even the smallest amount of expansion will do the trick...even more so if you can put multiple rounds in center mass/cranium, at which point the differences amongst the calibers shrink down to the infinitesimal.
    If I wanted to put multiple shots to the cranium, I'd carry a .22. If I wanted to be super accurate, I'd carry a .22. If I wanted to punch holes in paper for accuracy, I'd carry/shoot a .22. At 5 cents a round, you can shoot at a lot of bulls eyes. At my age, I want them to stop immediately. I realize that there is never a guarantee, but I believe that the larger the caliber, the larger the hole, increases your odds of immediate stoppage. If you can't hit center mass with .40 cal., I wouldn't be so sure that they could do it with 9mm either. I am a caliber snob when it comes to defensive shooting.

  5. #15
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    IMHO 40 S&W is not going anywhere.
    Don't know the numbers, but I'm thinking LE these days is something like 40% 40 S&W, 40% 9mm and the remaining 20% 45ACP/357 Sig.
    Seems like many LE only shoot often enough to qualify.
    So 9mm becomes very appealing.
    Particularly with lower cost and potentially less wear and tear on the gun.
    Also newbies with little shooting experience buy a 40, particularly in a compact carry gun,
    don't shoot it well and dump it.
    Hence the used gun case full of 40 S&W.

    In my hands, with my guns, I actually shoot 40 better than 9.
    And 45 better than 40 (depending on the gun).
    45 is a favorite, but I don't like the reduced capacity in a compact carry gun.
    Home Defense, where size doesn't matter, USP 45 ACP.
    Concealed carry, on a belt, it's 357 Sig or 40 S&W.
    Pocket Carry: Micro 9mm.
    BUG: 38 Special/.380 ACP

    Full Disclosure:
    As previously stated,
    during the last two ammo shortages, of LE Service Calibers,
    only 40 S&W JHP/FMJ was available on the shelf.

  6. #16
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    Remember trooper Mark Coates, .357 vs .22 it's all about shot placement.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Fra...UdZFiUEcaSopEy
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by berettabone View Post
    I realize that there is never a guarantee, but I believe that the larger the caliber, the larger the hole, increases your odds of immediate stoppage.
    No argument here. But I think the difference in real world results is astonishingly tiny if we are talking about anything but one-shot stops.

    Quote Originally Posted by berettabone View Post
    If you can't hit center mass with .40 cal., I wouldn't be so sure that they could do it with 9mm either.
    Thats not quite the argument. The testing they did was multiple hits on the target in rapid succession (which is included in the ICE qualification test, particularly in the close-distance portion (up to 7-yards)). Shooters consistently performed better with the 9 than they did with the 40, which shouldn't be a big surprise. And, given how close these rounds perform ballistically, the argument for going to the 9mm got a lot stronger.

    I think it's important to remember that federal law enforcement has changed in recent years. The typical academy class used to be primarily ex-military and ex-local law enforcement. While that is still a big part of the recruitment pool, FLE is now hiring computer experts, language experts, accountants, attorneys, etc etc. Some of those people will learn to shoot at the academy, and then only burn powder 4 times per year when they have to break leather to qualify and go home.

  8. #18
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    Carry what you shoot the best and am confident with.
    That may come down to a gut check.
    Handguns are underpowered by nature.
    We would all carry a rifle or shotgun, but it's not practical to do so.
    So it's a handgun.
    Some say a handgun is only good to fight your way to your shotgun/rifle.
    At any rate, it makes sense to carry the most powerful,
    highest capacity, gun you are proficient with and are willing to carry.
    Reloads and a BUG come to mind as well (along with edged weapons).
    Fortune favors the prepared

  9. #19
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    Cool Protect me like the President of the United States: 357 Sig

    Quote Originally Posted by boscobarbell View Post
    No argument here. But I think the difference in real world results is astonishingly tiny if we are talking about anything but one-shot stops.



    Thats not quite the argument. The testing they did was multiple hits on the target in rapid succession (which is included in the ICE qualification test, particularly in the close-distance portion (up to 7-yards)). Shooters consistently performed better with the 9 than they did with the 40, which shouldn't be a big surprise. And, given how close these rounds perform ballistically, the argument for going to the 9mm got a lot stronger.

    I think it's important to remember that federal law enforcement has changed in recent years. The typical academy class used to be primarily ex-military and ex-local law enforcement. While that is still a big part of the recruitment pool, FLE is now hiring computer experts, language experts, accountants, attorneys, etc etc. Some of those people will learn to shoot at the academy, and then only burn powder 4 times per year when they have to break leather to qualify and go home.
    My understanding that in the past the FBI had potential agents attempt to qualify with 40 S&W.
    If they failed then they were given a 9mm to qualify with.
    These days FBI has switched to 9mm wholesale.

    Full Disclosure:
    US Secret Service continues to protect the President of the United States with 357 Sig
    I've read that those boys can shoot...

  10. #20
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    Hardly dead, the .40, but declining in popularity for reasons mentioned....more effective 9mm ammunition and the 9 is easier to shoot for most folk, including me. Plus range ammo is much more expensive than 9mm ball.

    I never much took to the .40 in compacts. I do not shoot my G27 well at all. G23, on the other hand, I'm good with but still prefer my 9mm or .45ACP guns in that size range. The last handgun I purchased, however, I bought because it shoots .40....a 10mm/.40 Ruger Blackhawk.
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