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Thread: Strange P380 Problem--Dead Trigger

  1. #1

    Default Strange P380 Problem--Dead Trigger

    Howdy,

    Even though I have been a member here for many years I had to re register and this may look like my first post. It is not.

    Today I had a very strange failure with my P380. I have never heard of such a failure with any handgun.

    On the third or fourth round of a full mag my trigger went dead. That is, it would move back and forth, but nothing happened. No engagement, no click, no light strike--nothing at all.

    To my great surprise there was a new live round fully seated in the chamber and the slide was in full battery.

    This happened four time with two different mags.

    I've had this pistol for, maybe, ten years and have never had a failure.

    Kahr tech support is closed right now.

    Anybody ever heard of this and/or have any ideas?

    Thanks in advance for the help.
    Last edited by Alphonso; 09-27-2018 at 07:01 PM.

  2. #2

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    What did you find when you took it apart?

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by lee1000 View Post
    What did you find when you took it apart?
    Everything looks normal. I only did a field strip. I can't imagine how:

    1. A round fired and was ejected
    2. A new round got chambered
    3. The trigger did not reset

    I'm no gunsmith, but that doesn't even seem possible to me.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    106

    Default

    Clean your striker channel, and replace your recoil springs. I am on my third set of recoil springs, and am about to order a fourth as a backup because my third set has 800 rounds on it.

    Try this. The next time that happens, pull the slide back a quarter inch to 3/8 inch. Don’t eject the live round. Kinda like you are checking to see if the gun has a round chambered. Make sure you push the slide all the way forward after “checking for a live round”. Then, aim, and pull the trigger. You should hear a bang.

    If that bang happens after doing a “mini-rack” to reset the trigger and pushing the slide forward into battery, you need new recoil springs. This happened to me, and new recoil springs fixed the problem.

    -Wlf

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wlfman13 View Post
    Clean your striker channel, and replace your recoil springs. I am on my third set of recoil springs, and am about to order a fourth as a backup because my third set has 800 rounds on it.

    Try this. The next time that happens, pull the slide back a quarter inch to 3/8 inch. Don’t eject the live round. Kinda like you are checking to see if the gun has a round chambered. Make sure you push the slide all the way forward after “checking for a live round”. Then, aim, and pull the trigger. You should hear a bang.

    If that bang happens after doing a “mini-rack” to reset the trigger and pushing the slide forward into battery, you need new recoil springs. This happened to me, and new recoil springs fixed the problem.

    -Wlf

    Thanks for that. I will order recoil springs tomorrow.

    Can you explain how the gun could cycle (to include chambering a new round) and not reset the trigger? Like I mentioned, I'm not a gunsmith but I just can't imagine how that could happen.

    I know the striker channel is clean because I completely dissembled and cleaned the pistol just 30 or so rounds ago. However, I have never changed the recoil springs. I couldn't even guess at the number of rounds I've shot in the last 8 or 10 years since I got the P380.

    I've carried this little 380 (when I couldn't carry a "real" gun) for a long long time. I've grown fond of it and can't hardly stand the idea that it failed me this afternoon for the first time ever at Fawn's Butt Gun Range.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Near the Gila Mountains in SW AZ.
    Posts
    4,655

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alphonso View Post
    Everything looks normal. I only did a field strip. I can't imagine how:

    1. A round fired and was ejected
    2. A new round got chambered
    3. The trigger did not reset

    I'm no gunsmith, but that doesn't even seem possible to me.
    Though firing a round is dependent on the trigger releasing the striker, ejecting and chambering a new round generally happen with the trigger disconnected.

    I suspect you have a problem with one (or more) of the following:
    Trigger bar spring
    Trigger bar
    slide
    cocking cam

    Some of these are best checked by removing the side plate of the frame, but before doing that try checking the following:
    Remove the slide. Look to see if the trigger bar spring is properly seated in the frame and that the end of it is under the trigger bar.
    The spring in the following photos is correctly seated and positioned. The trigger bar in the photos is correctly positioned by the trigger bar spring. In this condition, pulling the trigger bar should move the cocking cam.


    If the cocking cam moves, let's look at the disconnector.

    Take a small tool (screwdriver, butterknife, etc.) and press the disconnector down until the top of it is below the level of the frame, then release it. It should immediately return to it's full height.
    Now pull and hold the trigger. The disconnector should have moved foward from it's previous position. Now, still holding the trigger to the rear, push the disconnector below the edge of the frame. This should allow the cocking cam to reset (you see and hear this happen) and the disconnector should remain down when you pull your tool away. Now, release the trigger; the disconnector should pop back up in it's original position (see photo). There should be an audible click when this happens. Pulling the trigger should cause the cocking cam to move.

    If everything is good to this point, it might be best to remove the slide plate. Let me what you find while doing the above and we will continue.

    Regards,
    Greg
    [<a href=http://i43.tinypic.com/2n7fnux.gif target=_blank>http://i43.tinypic.com/2n7fnux.gif</a>

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by gb6491 View Post
    Though firing a round is dependent on the trigger releasing the striker, ejecting and chambering a new round generally happen with the trigger disconnected.

    I suspect you have a problem with one (or more) of the following:
    Trigger bar spring
    Trigger bar
    slide
    cocking cam

    Some of these are best checked by removing the side plate of the frame, but before doing that try checking the following:
    Remove the slide. Look to see if the trigger bar spring is properly seated in the frame and that the end of it is under the trigger bar.
    The spring in the following photos is correctly seated and positioned. The trigger bar in the photos is correctly positioned by the trigger bar spring. In this condition, pulling the trigger bar should move the cocking cam.


    If the cocking cam moves, let's look at the disconnector.

    Take a small tool (screwdriver, butterknife, etc.) and press the disconnector down until the top of it is below the level of the frame, then release it. It should immediately return to it's full height.
    Now pull and hold the trigger. The disconnector should have moved foward from it's previous position. Now, still holding the trigger to the rear, push the disconnector below the edge of the frame. This should allow the cocking cam to reset (you see and hear this happen) and the disconnector should remain down when you pull your tool away. Now, release the trigger; the disconnector should pop back up in it's original position (see photo). There should be an audible click when this happens. Pulling the trigger should cause the cocking cam to move.

    If everything is good to this point, it might be best to remove the slide plate. Let me what you find while doing the above and we will continue.

    Regards,
    Greg
    Thanks for the lengthy and excellent answer. I followed your steps one by one. I think everything went as it should:

    1) The spring is properly seated
    2) The cocking cam moves as it should
    3) The disconnector pops back up when released
    4) The cocking cam resets
    5) The disconnector remains down while holding the trigger
    6) The disconnector pops back up when releasing the trigger.

    Again, thanks for the help. I'd appreciate any ideas about what to look at next. I have had the side plate off of a couple of other Kahrs....
    Last edited by Alphonso; 09-28-2018 at 03:47 AM. Reason: typo

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Near the Gila Mountains in SW AZ.
    Posts
    4,655

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alphonso View Post
    Thanks for the lengthy and excellent answer. I followed your steps one by one. I think everything went as it should:

    1) The spring is properly seated
    2) The cocking cam moves as it should
    3) The disconnector pops back up when released
    4) The cocking cam resets
    5) The disconnector remains down while holding the trigger
    6) The disconnector pops back up when releasing the trigger.

    Again, thanks for the help. I'd appreciate any ideas about what to look at next. I have had the side plate off of a couple of other Kahrs....
    One last thing to check before removing the side plate is to see if a magazine is causing any interference with the trigger bar or the trigger bar spring.

    Next, I would look at where the slide and disconnecter interface. On the bottom edge of the slide there is a cutout section that rides directly above the disconnecter when the slide is in battery. This allows the disconnecter to rise to it's full height and engage the trigger bar with the cocking cam. Check this cutout area and the disconnecter for any damage/wear that might interfere with a correct interface/operation of the parts.

    Here's a photo of a slide out of battery that shows the slide cutout. This pistol has a malfunction in that the disconnecter is wedged under the slide. The disconnecter should be riding along the underside of the slide at this point (which would disconnect the trigger bar).


    Also check:
    the side plate for any indication that the trigger bar might be hanging up on it.
    The interface of the trigger bar and cocking cam looking for full engaement


    Might as well give everything a good cleaning everything at this point.

    If you have found nothing amiss, I'd suggest replacing the trigger bar spring.

    Regards,
    Greg
    [<a href=http://i43.tinypic.com/2n7fnux.gif target=_blank>http://i43.tinypic.com/2n7fnux.gif</a>

  9. #9

    Default

    Thanks for the help. I haven't mentioned about a fairly recent change I made to the P380. I didn't think of it until you mentioned mag interference.

    A short while ago I installed the Magguts 6 to 7 +1 kit.

    I fired almost 30 rounds since then, with this "dead trigger" problem only showing up at the very end.

    I read many posts here about the Magguts kit. None mention a problem like mine.

    Wadda you think?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    wisconsin
    Posts
    377

    Default

    If I ever run into this problem I sure hope I can find this post again. What great, clear, and through instructions.

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