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Thread: New Magnum Research 429 Desert Eagle Cartridge

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
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    MrBlackCat

    Thanks for your time and for putting the results of your.429 testing and evaluation up so quickly.

    I have contacted my DE importer to get an eta on the new .429DE 6” barrel.

    Unhappy to hear that the 10” barrels are being discontinued. Are the 44mag 10” barrels still available?

    What kind of 50AE mags do you have to be a 10+ capacity?
    Maybe it’s just a simple magazine base extension?
    What mag loader do you use?

    I see you have the same problems with rounds hitting your forehead/glasses and was surprised to hear a simple wipe of the springs and rails eliminated the problem.

    Have a great weekend!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkippyDP View Post
    MrBlackCat

    Thanks for your time and for putting the results of your.429 testing and evaluation up so quickly.
    You are welcome.

    Quote Originally Posted by SkippyDP View Post
    Unhappy to hear that the 10” barrels are being discontinued. Are the 44mag 10” barrels still available?
    No... 10" barrels in all calibers are discontinued. If any are listed (I think they have already been pulled) they are a VERY small existing stock. Most internet sellers drop shipped Magnum Research barrels in my experience, so even if listed elsewhere it is unlikely they actually have them. I was told that no 10" barrels are being produced. I was told they had a few 10" left, but only with special finishes (chrome and nickle maybe) left a few days ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by SkippyDP View Post
    What kind of 50AE mags do you have to be a 10+ capacity?
    Maybe it’s just a simple magazine base extension?
    What mag loader do you use?
    Sorry if I wasn't clear. I meant loading ten or more magazines at a time, not like ten round magazines. I only have 7 round factory magazines, and loading ten of them in a row makes me appreciate a simple load assistant. I have come across a couple of those 10 round for 44 and 50, but they didn't function really at all... I could never get through a full magazine without a failure of some kind with them.
    I don't know what brand this magazine loader is... I will see if it has a name on it, but I think it is 3D printed. It is just one of those simple push-down types. I got it with some things I bought a while back, used, so I don't remember a brand.
    The loader I use... is hard to read, it was sold to me with in a lot I bought with other things, but this must be where it came from...
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/RAE-Industr...8AAOSwKQFbtWnK
    Here is mine...



    Quote Originally Posted by SkippyDP View Post
    I see you have the same problems with rounds hitting your forehead/glasses and was surprised to hear a simple wipe of the springs and rails eliminated the problem.

    (Not specifically about the 429, but a general post I often repeat)
    There are several things that can cause flat ejections (over the slide). Yes, sometimes it is because the gun is allowed to rotate too much effectively making the top of the gun face your face, so the guns up is not straight back... mostly that gets repeated on the internet by keyboard warriors though, just like limp-wristing causing "most issues", also mostly BS for another thread, but back to topic... the flat ejections I received, and the failures to return to battery were caused by the slide not being able to move freely. Drag on the slide causes more delay, and then too much of the gas impulse is absorbed getting the slide started. Then, in the later part of the slide acceleration, the slide movement in this case is kind of half hearted, even if it makes it far enough back to get another round from the magazine. Ideally, you want it to JUST barely bottom out, for a full run forward for the momentum to get that bolt rotated in hard. So called "limp wristing" is simply a multiplier for an issues like excess friction (from powder residue) and a couple more issues I was able to eliminate from my Desert Eagles.

    One characteristic of this slightly necked cartridge is that it can wobble a bit more going up the ramp and may end up popping into the chamber ahead of the extractor claw, if the slide isn't very smooth. Then, the energy it takes to defeat the extractor claw spring, to pop it over the rim of the case is quite high. This is the most common issue I have found (in all calibers) that causes failure to return to battery. To test this, just ease your slide down on top of a chambered round and you can see this in action.
    Further, imagine that the bolt lugs are trying to rotate into place behind the receiver lugs and the front of the extractor claw is hitting the shell. Not only does the claw need to rotate against the brass, it need to be forced outward over the rim of the cartridge during this rotation. Polishing the claw and a very tiny modification I do to mine eliminate this to the point of a really dirty slide and springs. All that grit of powder debris can really slow down a slide... and more lubricant just makes it gummier. I run all of mine with very little lubricants.

    With all of this said, my 429 case ejections were not consistent as with all other calibers, but I also polish and de-burr most barrels. I will do a close inspection of the 429DE barrel today and see if I can improve this a bit. In my experience, ejection consistency should be correctable. This 429DE ammo must be hand loaded as it is the most consistent I have ever put across my chronograph... probably the most expensive also. The point being that if any ammo is able to pile its brass well, it should be this.

    I will try to add pictures later.

    MrBlackCat
    Last edited by MrBlackCat; 11-24-2018 at 11:42 AM.

  3. #13
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    Dec 2017
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    Thanks for your time and detailed answers to my questions. I appreciate the detailed replies especially as it really helps when trying to identify any problems.

    The mag loader you pictured is definitely 3D printed. If it works, then all is good, I need a similar item as I know what you mean about loading a few mags at once. The other eBay one might be worth a try....

    I will try honing the chamber and ramp, make your claw mod and see if the .357 runs better. The feed ramp is rough and FTF is not uncommon. The .44 is polished and runs fine with good hand loads.

    Do you video in slow motion from the side and see how the slide reciprocates?

    If the 10” & 14” barrel options are discontinued now, they will become default collector items.







    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. #14
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    Nov 2017
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    I think MRI is missing the boat on this one. Published velocities are around 1600 fps, which MrBlackCat was kind enough to validate. One goes to this type of cartridge to gain velocity. The .440 Corbon gave a published velocity on a 240 gr. bullet of closer to 1800 fps. That would be a good enough reason to go to the bother and expense of getting a different barrel/cartridge/etc.

    The only problem here is that we can already get pretty darned close to 1600 fps. with a 240 gr. bullet in a Desert Eagle with a .44 Magnum. Offering the .429 in a ported barrel helps with recoil management, but also gives you effectively only a 5" barrel to work with.

    In the past I have chronographed Federal 240 gr. JHP out of a 10" DE at 1550 fps. And I expect I can do as well with a standard 6" barrel (actually, mine is a 7.5" barrel. I had the 10" tube cut back and threaded for a silencer several years ago). I was trying to prove this today, using a book load of H110 with a 240 gr. XTP. Unfortunately, it was extremely overcast and a bit drizzly. I got out and tried shooting, but it was not light enough for my chronograph to get good readings. In 7 or 8 rounds, I only got one reading in the DE, which was 1465 fps. I also brought along a 10" T/C Contender, which I was able to get a single reading of 1621 fps.

    I also have some other loads using Li'l Gun powder, which I'll try the next chance I get. I expect to get slightly higher velocities from that one.

    So the question is whether the minimal gains provided by the .429DE are worth it as compared to the .44 Mag. Seems like going back to a 10" barrel would give the same results, with less effort.

    Or maybe once this thing takes off, we will get some of the bullet & powder manufacturers running pressure test barrels and come up with some safe loads that produce velocities in the 1700-1800 fps. range.

    I'm hopeful, anyway.

    Of coures, just getting something because it's new or different is sometimes all the excuse we need.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by GarrettJ View Post
    I think MRI is missing the boat on this one. Published velocities are around 1600 fps, which MrBlackCat was kind enough to validate. One goes to this type of cartridge to gain velocity. The .440 Corbon gave a published velocity on a 240 gr. bullet of closer to 1800 fps. That would be a good enough reason to go to the bother and expense of getting a different barrel/cartridge/etc.
    I agree with this... this wasn't my reason for getting the new caliber however.
    Just the numbers... you ever shoot Buffalo Bore ammo in any caliber? They generally lean toward heavy bullets for energy of course. While I have never tried their 44 Magnum, I have shot their 357 Magnum, and WOW does it do exactly what they say it will. It was obviously far and above anything else I have put through my Desert Eagle in 357 Magnum.
    The point? Buffalo Bore has a jacketed 44 Mag round with a 270gr bullet making 1460fps/1,260 ft-lbs. So to me, we are not at the potential of this round with this case. Of course this is the first and only loadings right now... I don't see Buffalo Bore picking up an obscure ammo like this any time soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by GarrettJ View Post
    The only problem here is that we can already get pretty darned close to 1600 fps. with a 240 gr. bullet in a Desert Eagle with a .44 Magnum. Offering the .429 in a ported barrel helps with recoil management, but also gives you effectively only a 5" barrel to work with.
    This is where it kind of breaks down for me... I don't reload of course, but help me understand this. How does a 50AE get a 300gr bullet out of the same length barrel at 1430? I don't have the chronograph records in my phone, but I am positive I have put some 50AE 300's out a good bit over 1500 from a 6" barrel. (Underwood maybe?) I DO have this one I just shot from a 10" DE... Samson 300gr JHP at 1641fps/1794.13ft-lbs.
    The point? Shouldn't that super-light 240gr (comparatively!) easily make WAY over the 300gr 50AE's 1500+fps?

    Quote Originally Posted by GarrettJ View Post
    So the question is whether the minimal gains provided by the .429DE are worth it as compared to the .44 Mag. Seems like going back to a 10" barrel would give the same results, with less effort.
    This is what I thought as well, when thinking in the context of extremely expensive rounds... if you are going to spend that much on ammunition (as a non-reloader) then just use something like Buffalo Bore and a 10" barrel.

    Quote Originally Posted by GarrettJ View Post
    Or maybe once this thing takes off, we will get some of the bullet & powder manufacturers running pressure test barrels and come up with some safe loads that produce velocities in the 1700-1800 fps. range.

    I'm hopeful, anyway.
    On a virtual "wildcat" round like this, would this be expected? I don't know much about how that works. How much of this can be safely done with math vs real world? I have read some on the subject of load development, but that is the "How it should be world" vs the "How it is world".

    I will remain hopeful someone comes up with some "serious" rounds for this caliber. While it isn't a slouch, a new caliber for a Desert Eagle is going to need to be more than "just because" as you stated above.

    I am for developing a new line of Desert Eagles with new magnum rounds all spec'd to 60,000+ PSI... higher pressures is what makes the 454, 460 and 500 so powerful.
    /BS On
    Can you imagine the advertisement for that? "Got a Zombie Apocalypse, a Terminator from the future, or a Dinosaur from the past bearing down on you? Need a little more than your old Desert Eagle? WELL WE HAVE THE GUN FOR YOU! The all new Desert Eagle Ultra-Magnum Line! Forget the 50 Cal! Ultra-Magnums feature all new Ultra-Magnum (trademark) calibers that make the 50AE feel like a "9"! Pick up yours, with both hands, TODAY!"
    /BS Off

    Anyway, lets wait and see what comes out for this thing in the coming months. I will have a chamber reamer made for the .429 if I can't get one from Magnum Research in the next few months. Then I will see what we can get from a 10" barrel.

    Thank you GarrettJ for your cents as a loader and a Desert Eagle guy... I always look forward to your posts.

    Happy Shootin'
    MrBlackCat

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
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    Austin, Texas
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    Please don't get me wrong. I like some non standard calibers. My grail caliber has been a 38 Super. Ammo is always a little hard to find but is available.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by CPTKILLER View Post
    Please don't get me wrong. I like some non standard calibers. My grail caliber has been a 38 Super. Ammo is always a little hard to find but is available.
    I have read a little about that chambering before... several changes and variants of the rim and headspace issues over the years. I am guessing all of that is more stable in modern times and the firearms that shoot it.

    Kimber makes some precision stuff for sure... if anyone was going to make a non-standard caliber work reliably, it would be them.

    MrBlackCat

  8. #18

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    Update:
    Over the holidays I found a great price on 429DE Magnum ammo, and bought enough to matter finally.


    One CON I forgot to mention before is the front sight is "wrong". Not sure what the deal is, but it shoots crazy low... like "I just shot my chronograph" low. The front blade sight that came on my 429DE barrel is 0.325" (8.26mm) high. The height of my other front sights across 13 barrels is around ranges from 0.240" (6.09mm) to 0.272" (6.91mm) depending on design. So at about 25 ft it shoots 3~4 inches low or so. Very uncharacteristic for a Desert Eagle. I did a few shots by "point shooting" and got the same result. To verify this, I pointed the gun several times, then looked down the sights and the front blade was about .100" higher than the rear site every time. Not sure what is going on with that.

    One PRO... this bore has about the highest polish I have seen in a Desert Eagle Barrel. I have polished my barrels bores before, and get this result over time, but this barrel was like this new.

    One issue I noted my first time shooting the 429DE, was irregular ejections. Mostly low, and it will throw them left or right, sometimes center. Not very good or consistent, but working. So I did a standard polish of the chamber and ramp between then and now to see if that changed anything. No improvement of consistency, but ejection strength/distance did increase. I did polish the chamber a bit for easier extraction, which seems to have worked.


    So I ran another set through the chronograph I shot a while back, then through the new chronograph and got almost identical results... (guess the old one will be ok after all!)
    DE429 6"
    210gr JHP 1697.69mv
    240gr JSP 1568.45mv
    Pretty fun to shoot and less punishing than 50EA.


    Then I just shot some things with it... like lumber, firewood, targets, and some water jugs. Shooting gallon water jugs with the 429DE in 210's is closer to shooting them with 454 Casull than with 50AE. Just noting that, but not a huge difference in any of these magnum calibers vs water jugs.


    I will swap the front sight out for a more standard height one, but the height that came with this 429DE barrel is really crazy tall. Still puzzled about that one. When the second 429DE Barrel gets here in a few days, I will come back here and post if the sight is the same height or not.


    I will leave you with a picture... this is a bag of happiness for those who enjoy the conversion of gunpowder and lead into smiles.


    Happy Shootin'!


    MrBlackCat
    Last edited by MrBlackCat; 01-06-2019 at 06:37 PM.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    Near the Gila Mountains in SW AZ.
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    Nice photos MrBlackCat!

    On the front sight thing, it kind of reminds me of my Ruger Vaqueros in .45Colt. They had tall front sights, but that allowed me to file them down for a load I liked at a particular distance. I've often wondered if Ruger does that on purpose

    Regards,
    Greg
    [<a href=http://i43.tinypic.com/2n7fnux.gif target=_blank>http://i43.tinypic.com/2n7fnux.gif</a>

  10. #20

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    Ok... so I got a second 429DE Magnum barrel, and it has the same tall sight on it... and also shoots very low.
    Hmm... wonder what happened with that?

    Does anyone else have a 429DE with the same sights and P.O.I. results that I am getting?

    Here is an image of the 429's next to two 50AE barrels with equal height sights. As I stated before, all of my 6" barrels sights vary by about 30 thousandths of an inch... and these are 50 to 80 thousandths of an inch taller than all other sights.
    I can't help but wonder if these sights were intended for adjustable rear sights.




    EDIT: Look at the barrels listed here on the Magnum Research site...

    (source: https://www.magnumresearch.com/429-desert-eagle/# )
    All of the sights are the "normal" type (height) except the one with the internal muzzle brake. The ones on my two 429DE barrels look like the internal muzzle brake versions in height/profile. If you look at the linked source page, at the top photo, the stainless gun with muzzle brake barrel and the two part black barrel next to the gun have the tall sights like mine.

    MrBlackCat
    Last edited by MrBlackCat; 01-14-2019 at 06:37 PM.

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