will Kahr ever make a double stack?

[charczard]

I remember reading somewhere that kahr signed some agreement with glock that in exchange for using part of their design that they would never manufacture a double stack handgun. I'm just wondering 1) if this is real info, and 2) is it ever going to expire.


I recently acquired a p365, and have noticed that most of the 'magic' that people associate with the magazines capacity is actually a result of the polymer in the handle being super skinny. the p365 magazine is the exact same width as a cz75 magazine. Sig used a short follower, combined with a telescoping spring (things that magguts has been doing for quite a while) to lower the length of the magazine a bit, but in my opinion the only REAL novelty that the p365 brang to the market is the proof that the polymer in the handle does not need to be as thick as other companies have historically thought it must be (the jury is still out on this though because the gun hasnt been out long enough to see if the frames will crack or not).


Will kahr (or any other gun company for that matter) ever start manufacturing guns with thin polymer in the grip, taking sigs innovation to make a double stack with the footprint of a single stack? Or is this still uncharted territory that companies are scared to venture into?

[berettabone]

I can't comment on any "agreement" that was had or not had, but I don't think you'll see any in the near future, just my HO...…………….I believe that they use other manufacturers as guinea pigs to see what works/sells and what doesn't. I can say, that in my neck of the woods, they're (Sigs) being sold by their owners as much as they are being purchased. I see many for sale used, with hardly any mileage. The reasons for this I am sure are debatable…………...

[187911]

I can't comment on any "agreement" that was had or not had, but I don't think you'll see any in the near future, just my HO...…………….I believe that they use other manufacturers as guinea pigs to see what works/sells and what doesn't. I can say, that in my neck of the woods, they're (Sigs) being sold by their owners as much as they are being purchased. I see many for sale used, with hardly any mileage. The reasons for this I am sure are debatable…………...

Most probably in 40s&w...

[King Rat]

Certainly nothing I am interested in. Kahr already makes some fine 9mm's. Could care less about added rounds. Too much over hyped as it is for small carry guns.

[berettabone]

Most probably in 40s&w...

I was speaking about the P365...…………..

[Ed M]

I live about an hour away from Kahr.

No gun shops here in the 3rd largest metropolitan area in Pennsylvania want anything to do with Kahr products.

Sig P365's continue to sell like hot cakes, and seeing a used one for sale for more than a day or two is rare.

Lots of used Glock 43s and M&P Shields, as many are switching over to the P365 now that the initial teething problems are pretty much over with.

As far as frames cracking on the P365 - you can buy a whole new frame for $39 (was initially $20), pop out one pin, and remove the whole FCU.

Swapping out a frame takes about 30 seconds. The serialized part of the gun is the FCU, not the frame. You can now buy the P365XL grip module, and swap it out for the standard P365 grip module. It'd be like being able to buy the PM9 covert frame for $39 and using your PM9 upper. You can't do this with a Kahr, because the frame is the serialized part.

Sig is reaping the rewards of the modularity of their polymer frame guns.

Another example of the usefulness of the P365 design:

I can go to the range and shoot several hundred rounds - get the gun really filthy. I go home, pop out one pin, and remove the entire fire control unit (FCU). Spray the FCU with non-chlorinated brake cleaner, hose out the empty grip, then re-lube the pivot/contact points on the FCU. Whole process takes about 2 minutes to do, and it's as clean and well lubed as new. The upper is about as easy as cleaning a Kahr, but the rear slide plate is super easy to remove and clean out the striker channel on the Sig.

I always thought Kahrs were easy to clean, but the P365 is even easier.

[Scott321]

Unfortunately, my opinion is usually with only a small minority. One of the reasons I dove back into Kahr was because the trigger was similar to my DA revolvers (except much smoother and lighter)... this includes the long reset. Almost every review I read (many of which are joe-blows on YT) say they don't like the trigger and the long reset. Almost every striker fire firearm tries to be like the Glock trigger (which is fine), but that is another reason why I went with the CM9 instead of the G43 (and now the CW45).

Additionally, the P365 I handled had a very short trigger which I don't want on my SD firearm (again, my opinion is usually with only a small minority). I think that Kahr fills a niche with it's combo of trigger, single stack slimness, and SS options. I would, however, like to see a double stack 9 option that used a grip no wider than the 45 models (or K9 width). A 10 round P9 would very likely find it's way into my holster.

[charczard]

Unfortunately, my opinion is usually with only a small minority. One of the reasons I dove back into Kahr was because the trigger was similar to my DA revolvers (except much smoother and lighter)... this includes the long reset. Almost every review I read (many of which are joe-blows on YT) say they don't like the trigger and the long reset. Almost every striker fire firearm tries to be like the Glock trigger (which is fine), but that is another reason why I went with the CM9 instead of the G43 (and now the CW45).

Additionally, the P365 I handled had a very short trigger which I don't want on my SD firearm (again, my opinion is usually with only a small minority). I think that Kahr fills a niche with it's combo of trigger, single stack slimness, and SS options. I would, however, like to see a double stack 9 option that used a grip no wider than the 45 models (or K9 width). A 10 round P9 would very likely find it's way into my holster.

I would like to see this as well. what sig has proven with the 365 is that the polymer in the grips of most 9mm handguns is about 3-4x thicker than it needs to be. If you took say a Pm9 and hollowed out the inside of the grip to make the polymer thinner, you'd now have a gun that is basically able to accept double stack magazines.

[Ed M]

As impressive as the P365 is in regards to round capacity, King Rat brings up a very good point (as he always does).

At what point is enough enough? There's a price to be paid for carrying all this extra lead, and that's weight.

Good situational awareness, and avoiding trouble areas solve a multitude of problems.

Kahr mags are easier to carry than P365 mags, or double stack mags.

Personally, I still feel well armed with my CM/PM/MK micro 9's and a spare 7 round mag. I like the P365 trigger, but feel more comfortable with the Kahr trigger for self defense.

Higher capacity is all the rage nowadays, but Kahr got the whole concept of small conceal carry guns right a long time ago....

[charczard]

I also prefer the kahr trigger. My ultimate 9mm ccw gun would be a pm9 with the p365 frame footprint. People definitely get too caught up with capacity I can agree with that. I (like you) can also agree that 10-12 rounds is a good solid number for a ccw setup. I'd just prefer that they all be in the same magazine than in separate mags, taking up less space on my person.