The curse of the guide rod...

[dao]

No that's not always the issue. With the slide held upside down, when you try to angle the guide rod into the hole in the lug it's a tight squeeze to get the forward end of the rod to go into the hole because the angle is pushing it down against what would be the top edge of the hole if the slide was right side up. With everything assembled the diameter of the hole is only a very small fraction of an inch larger than the diamter of the rod. When the rod is still at an angle during reassembly that difference is even closer. That's why a bevel is needed on the forward end of the rod. This is why I usually find it necessary to pull the forward end of the guiderod away from the barrel while trying to get it into the hole.

[Ralph III]

No that's not always the issue. With the slide held upside down, when you try to angle the guide rod into the hole in the lug it's a tight squeeze to get the forward end of the rod to go into the hole because the angle is pushing it down against what would be the top edge of the hole if the slide was right side up. With everything assembled the diameter of the hole is only a very small fraction of an inch larger than the diamter of the rod. When the rod is still at an angle during reassembly that difference is even closer. That's why a bevel is needed on the forward end of the rod. This is why I usually find it necessary to pull the forward end of the guiderod away from the barrel while trying to get it into the hole.

Hey DAO. It's as Old No 7 stated. It's not the guide rod that is the issue but instead the "circular" spring end. You're supposed to have the circular end of the spring toward the back of the pistol and not the front, as Kahr depicts and states in their instructions HERE and as some demonstrate on YouTube. Go to 2.40 minute mark HERE.

The circular spring end causes the guide rod to kick off to one side or another. This can make it nearly impossible to get it into the hole of the slide and irrespective of the angle. You can in fact insert the guide rod without the barrel and you may still find it difficult even though the guide rod is perfectly straight. It's because the circular spring end is kicking the guide rod off to one side and hindering insertion. You can make it work this way by rotating or manipulating the spring but again, this is not the proper orientation according to Kahr instructions. Consequently, I don't think it would ever be necessary to grind the end of the guide rod. It did after all come assembled to you from Kahr.

God Bless,
Ralph

[dao]

The Kahr guide rods that I have which are not captive all have beveled, or chamfered ends. It's not much, just enough to provide the clearance needed to make it past the hole in the spring lug while the rod is still at an angle during re-assembly. And not every one of the non-captive springs I've had on my various Kahrs have an open end on one end of the spring. I do agree that on those that do have an open end, that end goes to the front and you have to be careful of how you orient it in the lug in order to keep it from actually going thru the hole and keeping the rod's end from doing so. But even on those I've found it necessary to lift the rod a bit to help it find its home.
I have not owned every Kahr model, or even every gen/variant of any one model but I have or have had thirteen of them over the years and have had to use this technique on a number of them. I still own eight of them and clean and/or lube them regularly.

[Ralph III]

The Kahr guide rods that I have which are not captive all have beveled, or chamfered ends. It's not much, just enough to provide the clearance needed to make it past the hole in the spring lug while the rod is still at an angle during re-assembly. And not every one of the non-captive springs I've had on my various Kahrs have an open end on one end of the spring. I do agree that on those that do have an open end, that end goes to the front and you have to be careful of how you orient it in the lug in order to keep it from actually going thru the hole and keeping the rod's end from doing so. But even on those I've found it necessary to lift the rod a bit to help it find its home.
I have not owned every Kahr model, or even every gen/variant of any one model but I have or have had thirteen of them over the years and have had to use this technique on a number of them. I still own eight of them and clean and/or lube them regularly.

Hey DAO. The point of my post is so folks do not make unnecessary modifications to their firearms. I think the vast majority that have an issue with re-assembly is simply due to their not orienting the guide rod spring properly. Most Kahrs use a non-captive spring that has both an open and closed end. The instructions show this and state to be sure to orient the spring properly during re-assembly.

I do however see that some of the replacement springs offered on their website has both closed ends. If you notice however, none of the guide rods offered have a beveled end with exception of CW380 and P380's.

Anyhow, if folks are having trouble with reassembly they should first be sure that they are orienting the spring correctly. If it's still difficult then they should attempt to manipulate the spring slightly as you suggest. Otherwise, it may well be necessary to add a slight polished bevel to the very end of the guide rod.

Take care,
Ralph

[dao]

I agree with you Ralph, and I wouldn't suggest anyone do a mod such as that either. But the guiderods that I have on those Kahrs I have or had have without a captive spring have a very slight chamfer on the forward end. It could probably even be called a relief it is so minute. I'd say it's only about 1/32". I even bought one from ssguiderods recently that is beveled on that end. Very slightly.

I also agree with you on orienting the spring correctly, because if it makes it through the hole first the rod is not going there. So, the only thing I was trying to add was that it is also important to orient the rod itself, by pulling it away from the slide and barrel while compressing the spring, so as to get the very tip of it away from the edge of the hole that is closest to the barrel and slide. If you look closely at one of yours assembled guns you will see just how little clearance there is between the circumference of the rod and the hole that it passes through. And that is with the rod resting in parallel with the barrel. When you're trying to fit it thru that hole with it at an angle before it clears the locking lug on the barrel the tolerance there is even tighter.

So, I think we're on the same page. Alignment and placement is important. Small gun. Small tolerances. Tight fit.

[kjorg]

Many thanks for replying, John. My guide rod is beveled like the one in the photo.

I sent in my CT45 to be reassembled. Kahr says there are no issues. Apparently I'm the issue. Now I am regrettably looking to sell.

kjorg,
Is the end of your guide rod beveled as shown in this photo: https://www.personaldefenseworld.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2014/11/kahr-ct45-barrel.jpg or is squared off?
IMO, being squared off makes installation much more difficult.

Regards,
Greg

[kjorg]

Dao, would you be able to offer any tip for preventing the open end of the spring from "going through the hole" of the lug as you say?

Some weeks ago now---days before posting here---I asked for help on Kahr's official reassembly video, and one guy whose native tongue is not English urged me not to let my Recoil Guide go through the hole (being that of the lug) --- or something to this effect. But I didn't understand what he was describing or how I might avoid it. You are urging something similar. Is there any further explanation you could give?

Before sending in my CT45, I tried many an orientation of the open end of the Recoil Spring. I did try lifting my Recoil Guide upwards, but I could not lift it off and away from the Recoil Spring, into which it was driven.

[dao]

I've only always had to spin the open end of the coil around 180º before retrying when it wants to poke out the hole. If memory serves having that end at the top of the lug usually does the trick. If yours keeps escaping it could be that your spring has a kink in it somewhere along its length? Or that you're not keeping tension on it and aligned with the barrel throughout the process of setting the rod?
I also always grab the rod such that my index finger is on the end that will eventually seat against the barrel lug while squeezing the rod and spring between my thumb on one side and my ring and pinkie on the other, in order to make sure the forward end of the rod clears the hole in the lug. When you say upwards I'm assuming that the slide and barrel are underneath the spring and rod. That is the position I keep mine. You only need to lift it away from the barrel by a tiny fraction to clear that hole. Trying to lift it more than that will probably result in you hitting the other side of the hole with the end of the rod. It's a tight squeeze for sure, and very hard to do with a new spring but it does get easier with practice and as the spring sets. Also, using your fingers and thumb helps to make sure the rod feeds correctly into the coils. Keep the rod and spring in alignment with the barrel during the entire process. This helps to keep the forward end of the spring from migrating away from the side of the lug and moving into the hole.
If Kahr had it, they would have experienced any issue that would prevent it from going together so if they didn't it probably does come down to technique and finger strength.
Just be sure to keep it aimed away from anything breakable. I darn near put a window out not too long ago with one of mine. Even with lots of practice over the years and springs that are well set, once in awhile I'll have more trouble than usual getting one back together and have launched one a couple/few times. So don't get discouraged, it can be tough on even the most experienced. It just doesn't happen as often as you develop technique and muscle memory. Also, if you try a couple of times with no success, give your hands a rest before trying again. These are tough little beasts and this process requires fresh hands and fingers.

The Sig Armorer, Robert Burke makes a tool that can be used to seat guide rods, and is reviewed by The Sig Guy. I have one, and also made another for other sized rod ends. Watch this video to see how the tool works. I haven't tried it but once on a Kahr and while it didn't work as easily as it does on a Sig, it has potential. With practice on a Kahr I feel it could be as easy as he shows it on a Sig.

I used a cutoff I had from a cutting board that I used a portion of for something else to make the one I want to use on other makes and models with smaller rod ends.

Start at 7:15 of the video to see the function of the tool I'm speaking of.

Video here

edit: As an aside, the reason this is so tough on a Kahr is because in addition to the strength of the spring, the shortness of the distance between the barrel lug and the slide lug means the angle is steeper with very little tolerance to "adjust" the angle of the rod in order to clear the hole. Once you master this on your CT you could find that doing the same on a smaller Kahr is even harder. Or would be if you didn't learn first on the larger Kahr. It's the nature and a byproduct of making and using very small firearms with stiff springs and tight tolerances.

[Bawanna]

Do I recall a person using a dowel through the hole and into the spring to help guide the guide rod properly into the hole.

Seems like it would work. I've never had an issue myself, so must be a technique?

[dao]

I tried the dowel once but always felt like I needed another hand for it as well as one for the slide and another for the spring/rod. I think you're right Colonel, it is a matter of technique. For both the dowel and the dowel-less methods.