CW45/P45: Flush fit magazine - UPDATED

[wyntrout]

When you use the Kahr follower, you give up a round of capacity. That's why I'm trying to use the Kahr tube and a minimal metal follower. I just wish Kahr made a metal floor plate for the .45's.
I should get my Colt Officer's Model 6-round SS magazine to play with Monday. I don't have many real metal-working tools... just saws, files, and my DLT... Dremel-Like Tool. Not too many things will work with that tough stainless steel.
I think the Colt follower looks like picture#1. The Wilson follower seems hollow... maybe metal. I hope I can get these parts to work together and give me a fairly flush fitting 6-round magazine for the PM. I'll have to wait and see.

Looking at the Colt magazine picture, it looks like it is a 7-rounder... there's 5 holes and then it looks like enough space for two more rounds...?

Wynn

[Mr. Zero]

Here's my RANGE TEST:

I took the CMC Match grade officers 7 round flush fit mag I altered to the range today. Unlike my bench test, it failed to lock back the slide on the last round, it functioned flawlessly otherwise.

When I returned from the range, I took the CMC mag apart and noticed that the bottom tab that activates the slide stop, was all chewed up on the tip where it had been hitting the bottom edge of the feed ramp. Not acceptable.

I have exchanged some information with someone on the boards here, who told me that they use stock Wilson 47D mags in his PM45 without a problem. So while I was at the range with my friend, I borrowed one of his Wilson magazines. It slid in and locked into place without problem, it even clears the bottom of the slide (no grinding required). However, it would not lock back the slide either, not even on the bench, and when I loaded them to shoot, the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds jammed every time. The loaded round would pop up and drive the nose of the bullet into the top of the chamber and lock up the gun. After that, it functioned fine (except for no lock back).

Seven rounds would be great, but flush fit is the goal, so I may look back to the beginning of the thread and try what the OP had done.
Or I may be sticking with stock Kahr magazines until someone smarter than me gets this thing figured out.

On the good side, other than the mag experimental issues, the gun ran great, this thing is a real shooter. And the A-Grip makes it into a new gun, absolutely, incredibly comfortable and controllable.

[gb6491]

... I didn't have any luck with the Chip McCormick Officers 7 round magazine. On the last round the follower would move up and forward of the mag a little higher than the chamber, causing a mis-feed. I had forgot about this being the reason CMC magazines were not recommended for use in aluminum frame 1911...

When I returned from the range, I took the CMC mag apart and noticed that the bottom tab that activates the slide stop, was all chewed up on the tip where it had been hitting the bottom edge of the feed ramp. Not acceptable.

These replies seem to support my reasoning for trying the Metalform magazine or, more precisely, the Metalform nylon follower. I have seen the Devel/McCormick style follower issue (moving out of the magazine/frame damage) before in alloy frame guns. I wanted to avoid this with the poly frame. The nylon Metalform follower is of a style that is less likely to move out of the magazine or damage the frame. However, while it feeds fine, it will not lock the slide back.

Seven rounds would be great, but flush fit is the goal, so I may look back to the beginning of the thread and try what the OP had done.

I totally agree. A reliable, flush fit magazine was my original goal with this modification. To that end, I am using a Kahr follower and spring in my modified magazine. The combo is still a six round magazine, but the follower will not damage the frame, it feeds without issue, locks the slide back, and achieves a nearly flush fit in the pistol. It's what I carry in my CW45 now with some OEM mags as reloads.
Regards,
Greg

[OldLincoln]

Have you guys looked into the Check-Mate patented follower? Unlike the MCC is has a front shroud that keeps it from sliding forward and hitting the ramp. I should have already received the 3 7rd I ordered a couple weeks ago for my Colt.

Tip: On one of the 1911 forums, they said to order it with the extra strength spring which you can only get from the factory @ $22. Since, I discovered you can buy them at Top-Gun for $17 and it looks like they carry them all. If you want to pursue them, you probably want either the 7rd Compact Check-Mate Follower Hybrid lips in Blued ($22) or Stainless ($24).

[Mr. Zero]

[QUOTE I totally agree. A reliable, flush fit magazine was my original goal with this modification. To that end, I am using a Kahr follower and spring in my modified magazine. The combo is still a six round magazine, but the follower will not damage the frame, it feeds without issue, locks the slide back, and achieves a nearly flush fit in the pistol. It's what I carry in my CW45 now with some OEM mags as reloads.
Regards,
Greg[/QUOTE]

It's funny, when I put the Kahr spring and follower in my modified CMC mag, it only holds 5 rounds.

I may try trimming the top end of the CMC spring so it can be used with the Kahr follower and see if it is spring coils taking up too much space or the follower legs. If that doesn't work, I am thinking about trimming the legs on the stock follower to see if I can get the mag to hold 6 rounds.

If I could get the modified mag I have to hold 6 rounds that would be great, I only need ONE for carry. I would love to find a full length 1911 mag that I could use for back up with the Kahr, AND for my 1911. After talking with a member here, who uses Wilson 47D's in that mannor, I had high hopes. But after trying them in my gun and having feeding issues, I am back to the drawing board.

I am also interested to know if anyone has tried the Cobra mags.


-Zero-

[wyntrout]

I just used the follower and spring from the Colt Offer's Model SS 6-round magazine and got 6 rounds into the Kahr 5-round (K5), and the Wilson Kit in the COM to insert seven rounds and take up less space than the 6-round Kahr 6G model.
Link:

http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistol...html#post36945

Wynn

[Mr. Zero]

I just used the follower and spring from the Colt Offer's Model SS 6-round magazine and got 6 rounds into the Kahr 5-round (K5), and the Wilson Kit in the COM to insert seven rounds and take up less space than the 6-round Kahr 6G model.
Link:

http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistol...html#post36945

Wynn

Wynn,

Thanks for the experiment and post. Since you have not range tested your combo let me issue a warning: The followers your using have no front skirt, just like the CMC shooting star followers. When I did the same experiment you have just preformed using the CMC mag and follower I had the same bench results - a 7 rounds flush fit mag for my P45 that cycled and activated the slide stop. However, when I went to the range, the slide would NOT lock back, and after 6 or 7 magazines of shooting I noticed the bottom / front portion of the follower had been slamming into the bottom of the feed ramp, deforming it.

I have decided that any modified mag needs to have a follower that cannot move forward under recoil (i.e. full skirted magazine follower).

[Bawanna]

Here's my RANGE TEST:

I took the CMC Match grade officers 7 round flush fit mag I altered to the range today. Unlike my bench test, it failed to lock back the slide on the last round, it functioned flawlessly otherwise.

When I returned from the range, I took the CMC mag apart and noticed that the bottom tab that activates the slide stop, was all chewed up on the tip where it had been hitting the bottom edge of the feed ramp. Not acceptable.

I have exchanged some information with someone on the boards here, who told me that they use stock Wilson 47D mags in his PM45 without a problem. So while I was at the range with my friend, I borrowed one of his Wilson magazines. It slid in and locked into place without problem, it even clears the bottom of the slide (no grinding required). However, it would not lock back the slide either, not even on the bench, and when I loaded them to shoot, the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds jammed every time. The loaded round would pop up and drive the nose of the bullet into the top of the chamber and lock up the gun. After that, it functioned fine (except for no lock back).

Seven rounds would be great, but flush fit is the goal, so I may look back to the beginning of the thread and try what the OP had done.
Or I may be sticking with stock Kahr magazines until someone smarter than me gets this thing figured out.

On the good side, other than the mag experimental issues, the gun ran great, this thing is a real shooter. And the A-Grip makes it into a new gun, absolutely, incredibly comfortable and controllable.

Ok, I'll stand before the world and fess up to being the culprit you exchanged info with. I'm totally blown over with your results. I used 4 different Wilson mags, used interchangeably with my Para and my PM45. I ran the whole 8 rounds without a hiccup and the slide locked open probably 9 times on empty and failed once. Other than that, I had no issues. I haven't tried my officer model size Wilson mags but I honestly gotta believe they will give the same results. I'm glad you didn't buy a Wilson mag just to have it not work. I would have felt real bad about that. I'll try to remember to try my officer size mags next trip and see how they run.

[wyntrout]

I included pix of the follower and mated spring from the COM6. The springs must be designed to hold the followers in place. All of the different mag springs were mated to their individual followers. If the spring fills the tube from front to back, it can hold the follower in place, if designed correctly. The COM6 spring/follower seems pretty stable, but I haven't range tested it.
It takes a combination of that and something that will work with the Kahr magazine lips. It's a PITA trying out all of the combos I did with the welded base tube.
Wynn

[gb6491]

It's funny, when I put the Kahr spring and follower in my modified CMC mag, it only holds 5 rounds.
-Zero-

I wonder at the dynamics of that. I have no problem getting six into a modified Metalform Officer's magazine using a Kahr follower and Kahr spring.
YouTube - Kahr CW45: flush fit, six round magazine.
What is so different in the CMC mag body that would prevent it from doing the same? Could it be the follower didn't properly seat on the spring? I'd really like to know what is going on with this.
FWIW: I just tried a different Kahr follower and spring (from an OEM seven round magazine) in my modified magazine and again had no problem loading six in it.

Have you guys looked into the Check-Mate patented follower? Unlike the MCC is has a front shroud that keeps it from sliding forward and hitting the ramp.

Thanks for that info OldLincoln. I think I need to try one of those followers

Wynn,
That's sure some experiment you have going on there. I look forward to reading your range report.

Regards to all,
Greg