This P9 trigger.

[FreeMe]

I'm baffled here. I've had a K9 since shortly after they arrived on the scene. It's the one handgun I'm most familiar with. Not long ago, I acquired a K9 Elite. The Elite trigger is a surprisingly huge improvement, for such a small difference. That encouraged me to get a P9, with the understanding, confirmed by Kahr CS, that all newer Kahrs come with the Elite trigger. I like the P9, although there are some things about it that I view as inferior to the K9. It does clearly have an advantage in weight and rust resistance (no grip screws).

One thing that I am pretty disappointed about though is the trigger. It is definitely not the same trigger that my K9 Elite has. It's actually a less smooth (though improving with use) version of the original K9 trigger - requiring the trigger to be pulled all the way to the rear before it breaks. I can live with that, but I'd rather not. Kahr CS seems to not believe that this is not an Elite trigger.

What to do? Anyone else here have both the K9 Elite and the P9? If so, are your triggers the same? I'd like to confirm that mine is an anomaly before sending it off for correction.

[ripley16]

IMHO the triggers are the same and Kahr can't fix what isn't broken. The contrast you're detecting is the slight tactile difference between how the two guns are made, that is, polymer versus metal construction. The metal guns have always had a reputation of smother triggers than the polymer guns. I think it may have more to do with the trigger bar travel than the trigger itself. You said it yourself... it's getting smoother. Give it time.

I agree with your comment about the the different K9 triggers. The elite is much nicer than the older standard K9 trigger.

[FreeMe]

Nope. It's not just the difference in smoothness. That is improving, but what does not change is the measurable difference in the distance the trigger moves before the striker breaks. That may be due to the difference in the plastic frame, but I hope not. But if all the P series have this same trigger, that would explain why the Kahr line has not gained more popularity. The difference from my Elite 03 is like night and day. Even my former LEO firearms trainer friend is impressed by the Elite 03, but not so much the P9. This P9 trigger is identical in every way to my original K9, except for the slight grittiness, which is indeed going away.

My reason for this thread is simply to determine whether this is normal for the P9, which doesn't seem logical. Lack of popularity of Kahrs being what it is, I don't currently have access to others to compare.

[Scott321]

I don't have an elite. I do have variants from the C, P, K, TP, and T lines, though. I can't say that I notice a difference in any of the triggers, except with the newer ones that smooth out over time. My K is the oldest, at around 20 years old (purchased new).

Although it shouldn't make a difference going from the K9 to the Elite K9, but I was wondering if you placed a different part of your trigger finger on the trigger of the P9 (thinner grip might have altered your trigger finger placement). This might account for some variance.

Regarding Kahr's popularity, I think the maintenance required for the firearm, the single stack, long reset, and long trigger pull is what many people don't like (most of which I prefer for CCW). A lot of YT reviewers praise the light takeup, wall, and short and audible reset triggers on competitor firearms... all the things that I either don't want, or don't care about.

I don't know if it's true, but some quick Google Fu comes up with comments such as:
-"...sometime in 2001 was when Kahr started using the Elite trigger in all theri handguns, with the exception of the New York model (2005?)"
-"...only a difference of 1/8" of trigger pull lenght."
From Kahrtalk (Post#6): "the NY trigger is 1/2" trigger travel, trigger poundage is the same as the elite trigge rof 3/8" travel. So the only difference is the 1/8" travel. I have it on my K9 and I own a PM9 and I can't tellthe difference."

[FreeMe]

Yep, that 1/8" difference is measurable (which I have done) and does make a difference in how fast I can make follow-up shots. Same goes for the early K9 as the P9. In fact, side by side comparison of those two shows them to be essentially identical triggers. Both my original K9 and my P9 triggers have the same take-up, and the same rearward travel, with the same break just before the stop. They both end up 1/8" closer to the frame than the 03 Elite. Oddly enough, the reset is about the same on all three....maybe about 1/16" farther forward on the Elite 03 (kind of hard to measure that, due to the arc). The 03 also has a shorter take-up.

It's not ambiguous. I've put the scale to it many times now. I've shot them side by side. And yes, my finger goes to the same place.

It's not a huge deal to me. I'm well tuned in to the old Kahr trigger, and still consider it close to ideal. But if I can get this P9 to act more like the Elite 03, I'll be a lot happier. And it also raises a question about current Kahr pistols in general. If my P9 is a typical example, I can better understand why there are still so many complaints about Kahr triggers from people who didn't come from the ranks of DA revolver shooters. If that is the case, I know that I will be more inclined to advise new buyers to look to the steel frames (specifically the Elite 03) for the best performance. Otherwise, maybe mine needs fixing.

[Scott321]

I don't know if you want to do any minor GS work on your firearms, but you might talk to Galloway Precision. They have a flat faced "short stroke" trigger, although supposedly they will make a sear that enhances reduction in trigger travel. The trigger itself has an overtravel stop which might make the difference you are looking for. I think in the Galloway trigger thread someone mentioned using epoxy on the frame and sanding it to spec for a trigger stop, but I don't know if I would trust that on a carry gun. Personally, I have another pistol (FNX9) which I want to put an overtravel stop on, but haven't decided which direction I will go.

Here's a link to one of the Kahrtalk thread discussing it: http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.p...light=galloway

YT Video by Galloway Precision:

[FreeMe]

I've been in contact with Galloway. The flat triggers are currently out of stock. His response back in July wa that he hoped to have them in production in a week. I check the site periodically, but have not seen them available. Haven't talked with him again, so I don;t know what's up. When he gets them in stock, I intend to get one and try it.

As for the overtravel stop - I don't think any of my Kahrs need one, and I'm not a fan of adjustable stops anyway. I want to have a real-time conversation with somebody at Kahr about my trigger, but my plan so far has been to keep running the P9 as-is, get the flat trigger on it when available, and go from there. If the flat trigger doesn't settle things for me, then I'll speak with Kahr about the possibility of a fix........unless I can otherwise confirm that my P9 is just like every other P9.

[cw9 covert]

What an interesting topic
My experience is similar to yours but the other way around.
I own a cw9 and love that revolver like trigger pull.
I later acquired an E9 and kahr assured me that it has the elite trigger
Shooting the E9 was difficult cause that trigger had to go so far back to fire

Comparing the two the E9 trigger is closer to the grip than the cw9

I ended up selling the E9

[ripley16]

An E9 would have come with the longer trigger not the elite trigger.

[cw9 covert]

Kahr checked my serial number and said it has elite trigger

I initially asked for elite trigger parts to upgrade the E9