I think Kahr is done

[340pd]

Kahr is fine and they offer a totally different trigger system which is a great alternative to the usual striker fired offerings and replicates the feel of our loved revolvers.
A good point was made about high capacity mags and I envision changes in laws which will at best make owning anything over 10 round capacity troublesome.
I for one, own one ten round mag for every gun that I no longer own.

[guido4198]

I bought my CM9 in 2013 when NONE of these newer Hi-cap. 9mm carry pistols were available. IF I were starting from scratch today... I doubt the CM9 would be my choice. I have "capacity concerns" which is why I have upgraded the magazines for the CM9 and carry a spare upgraded magazine in my pocket. I have pretty much quit carrying my sweet little S&W 642 altogether. The CM9 is a really great EDC option, there's no question. In my lifetime ( I'm 71) I've pretty much always carried a firearm on my person, legally or otherwise. This topic is not something new to me.
The CM9 is the first one that I've found easy to have on me everyday, all the time and not "feel it" weighing on me, being in the way...or anything like that. As a result..it's on me everyday everywhere I go. THAT is the true test. The baddest hi-capacity handgun made is worthless to you in a drawer. My CM9 is never left in a drawer. Unfortunately for Kahr, that appreciation isn't immediately obvious when a new customer is evaluating their options in 2021.

[MMyers1970]

To me it’s not really a question of whether Kahr’s poly 9s are adequate or good enough. It’s that the market has moved and left Kahr behind.

All of us on here like or even love our Kahrs. I simply don’t believe that Kahr offers a competitive product in today’s poly 9 market and although I don’t have the data to prove that point, I think sales data for the last three years would show that. With the new offerings from Smith and Ruger I think the next three years will be even worse.

Long term that doesn’t bode well.

THANK YOU! Finally someone who understands the issue at hand. It's not "Oh I love my Kahrs as they are I don't want to change anything who needs that many rounds blah blah blah"----it's that in a market where 10 round pistols which are easily concealable and within millimeters of the size of a CM9 exist, NEW buyers aren't going to opt for 6 instead of 10.

It's like we're in the 1980s and Kahr is till trying to sell full sized single stack 9mms while everybody else has 17 round Wondernines. They are behind the times, and before long they won't sell anything.

[MMyers1970]

Make that two! I am perfectly happy with my PM9 and even happier with the MK40N. The CM45 and CW45 are fine too. I have no desire or need for a double stack. If I can't defend myself with six or seven rounds, I'm not in a defensive position, I'm in a war.

Again---you are looking at things from the position of someone who already owns a PM9. But you're not the customer Kahr needs to grab. They need to worry about the NEW buyer, the person who's buying their very first CCW. This person is going to walk into a gun store and see a P365, a Hellcat, a Max 9, and a Shield Plus, all of which are not only comparable in size to a P9, but comparable in size to a PM9. That person is NOT going to choose to carry 7 rounds when they can carry 11.

Your argument is the exact one old guys gave when they were questioned about carrying J frames or Detective Specials----"I have six rounds, why would I need 8?"

The defensive nature of some of the folks in this thread is exactly why Kahr is going to fail.

[MMyers1970]

I bought my CM9 in 2013 when NONE of these newer Hi-cap. 9mm carry pistols were available. IF I were starting from scratch today... I doubt the CM9 would be my choice. I have "capacity concerns" which is why I have upgraded the magazines for the CM9 and carry a spare upgraded magazine in my pocket. I have pretty much quit carrying my sweet little S&W 642 altogether. The CM9 is a really great EDC option, there's no question. In my lifetime ( I'm 71) I've pretty much always carried a firearm on my person, legally or otherwise. This topic is not something new to me.
The CM9 is the first one that I've found easy to have on me everyday, all the time and not "feel it" weighing on me, being in the way...or anything like that. As a result..it's on me everyday everywhere I go. THAT is the true test. The baddest hi-capacity handgun made is worthless to you in a drawer. My CM9 is never left in a drawer. Unfortunately for Kahr, that appreciation isn't immediately obvious when a new customer is evaluating their options in 2021.

More capacity in a similar sized platform is a no-brainer. I've seen some folks in this thread talk about weight being the reason they wouldn't choose the additional capacity---but these same folks wouldn't say anything about someone carrying an MK9, which is a heavy little lump.

Kahr has to stay with the times to get NEW customers. They can't depend on people like this group, who buy multiple Kahrs. And if they think the future is going to be supported by customers buying the unique things ONLY Kahr makes(the K, MK, and T lines), they're sadly mistaken.

[MMyers1970]

Kahr is fine and they offer a totally different trigger system which is a great alternative to the usual striker fired offerings and replicates the feel of our loved revolvers.
A good point was made about high capacity mags and I envision changes in laws which will at best make owning anything over 10 round capacity troublesome.
I for one, own one ten round mag for every gun that I no longer own.

You just made the point----IF a law is passed restricting mag capacity to 10 rounds, then the obvious choice will be buying a 10 round pistol. When the AWB was in effect, companies looked to the CCW market as a place to make money. That's when Smith and Wesson brought out all their excellent singlestack compact carry pistols, SIG brought out the P239, etc.

In a world of tiny 10 round pistols, a 6 round pistol won't sell.

[JohnR]

I don’t think the market shifted, it expanded. S&W and Ruger still sell a lot of 5 shot revolvers. They sell small 10+ round 9mm semis too, so they cover the bases.

Look at Rock Island Armory , almost all they do is 1911s. No micro PocketMax 360Cats there. They also don’t have a forum for customers to complain, either.

[berettabone]

Again---you are looking at things from the position of someone who already owns a PM9. But you're not the customer Kahr needs to grab. They need to worry about the NEW buyer, the person who's buying their very first CCW. This person is going to walk into a gun store and see a P365, a Hellcat, a Max 9, and a Shield Plus, all of which are not only comparable in size to a P9, but comparable in size to a PM9. That person is NOT going to choose to carry 7 rounds when they can carry 11.
argument is the exact one old guys gave when they were questioned about carrying J frames or Detective Specials----"I have six rounds, why would I need 8?"
The defensive nature of some of the folks in this thread is exactly why Kahr is going to fail.

People are too hung up on capacity. Kahr's have enough capacity. They have a nice trigger. That's all they've got. I guarantee you that if you ever have to unload your high capacity firearm for self protection, the attorney's will have a field day with you. They will hang you out to dry. I switched to a revolver. Holds as many shots as a Kahr and is basically trouble free. Trigger is as good if not better. From what I have seen and experienced, most people would be shooting in to thin air. They carry these high capacity firearms and can't hit the broad side of a barn at 30 ft. A pretty dangerous thing to have someone walking around with a high capacity gun and can't use it. You have to think about the innocent sheep standing around when using these high cap guns.

[King Rat]

More capacity in a similar sized platform is a no-brainer. I've seen some folks in this thread talk about weight being the reason they wouldn't choose the additional capacity---but these same folks wouldn't say anything about someone carrying an MK9, which is a heavy little lump.

Kahr has to stay with the times to get NEW customers. They can't depend on people like this group, who buy multiple Kahrs. And if they think the future is going to be supported by customers buying the unique things ONLY Kahr makes(the K, MK, and T lines), they're sadly mistaken.

Got news for ya, many people that advocate for smaller guns lighter weight HAVE very well voiced against the MK9 as a carry gun because of weight, I have no idea where you have been. I would love to have one, but not for carry. I have many guns to include heavier guns. I just do not carry them. To say that weight does not matter is preposterous. A ounce of weight is significant in the EDC world. You seem to think that the only thing that matters in choosing a firearm is capacity. That Kahr will never survive. Where do you get your information? Please post this for us. For Gosh sake, many people buy 5 round snubbies, many people buy ALL kinds of guns including 1911's that are NOT high capacity. Are all the manufactures doomed just because a internet poster thinks high capacity in a carry gun is the only criteria a person chooses a firearm?
Your remark that people that do not buy a higher capcity gun in a similar platform is what you call a no Brainer. Let me tell you about a few no brainers at my Club. We have a small group of about 5 people, very experienced shooters that put money in a pot and will test out new guns. We did this with the Sig 365 for a thousand rounds. I will not go into full detail, but it was not the stellar shooter of some single stacks for sure. No one of the group ran out and bought one other than lady of the group, and she has since sold the gun. Nothing against the gun other that to say it is not their cup of tea for various reasons and no one gave a flying fig about the extra couple of rounds.Ironically right after that test, I bought yet a second Kahr CM9.
No one buys a 6 round gun any more according to you. LOL, When The Ruger LCP debuted in 2009, they sold MILLIONS and they still do. And regardless of your views on the cartridge, millions of People continue to buy the LCP and other small 380's. And there IS a reason for that. I will post about that later. Maybe size and weight or less weight DO MATTER.
Choosing a gun for EDC has many factors and NOT just capacity. And that is a NO BRAINER. I will talk about weight later.

PS by the way, if money were no object and their no ammo shortage, I would damn sure love to have a MK. but know, not my personal choice for EDC. I would also love to have a Kimber K6 but again not for EDC. And EDC means every day carry. I am not saying I would never carry it. A lot of times I carry a Snubbiie. I love the Ruger LCR9mm but carry the Smith 642 because of less weight. I actually love my Beretta Nano and APX Carry for their fine smooth shooting of any of the small guns I have shot, but carry the Kahr EDC. And that darn CM 9 beats every thing in the entire line up for EDC. Yes I want more Kahrs in all sizes. I have shot many and love them.

[MMyers1970]

Got news for ya, many people that advocate for smaller guns lighter weight HAVE very well voiced against the MK9 as a carry gun because of weight, I have no idea where you have been. I would love to have one, but not for carry. I have many guns to include heavier guns. I just do not carry them. To say that weight does not matter is preposterous. A ounce of weight is significant in the EDC world. You seem to think that the only thing that matters in choosing a firearm is capacity. That Kahr will never survive. Where do you get your information? Please post this for us. For Gosh sake, many people buy 5 round snubbies, many people buy ALL kinds of guns including 1911's that are NOT high capacity. Are all the manufactures doomed just because a internet poster thinks high capacity in a carry gun is the only criteria a person chooses a firearm?
Your remark that people that do not buy a higher capcity gun in a similar platform is what you call a no Brainer. Let me tell you about a few no brainers at my Club. We have a small group of about 5 people, very experienced shooters that put money in a pot and will test out new guns. We did this with the Sig 365 for a thousand rounds. I will not go into full detail, but it was not the stellar shooter of some single stacks for sure. No one of the group ran out and bought one other than lady of the group, and she has since sold the gun. Nothing against the gun other that to say it is not their cup of tea for various reasons and no one gave a flying fig about the extra couple of rounds.Ironically right after that test, I bought yet a second Kahr CM9.
No one buys a 6 round gun any more according to you. LOL, When The Ruger LCP debuted in 2009, they sold MILLIONS and they still do. And regardless of your views on the cartridge, millions of People continue to buy the LCP and other small 380's. And there IS a reason for that. I will post about that later.
Choosing a gun for EDC has many factors and NOT just capacity. And that is a NO BRAINER. I will talk about weight later.

None of what you said addresses the direction of the market. You are too close to this issue, and you keep missing the point.

The LCP is a different market than a main EDC ultracompact 9mm.

As are J frames.