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Thread: IDPA Rule

  1. #11

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    IDPA guy here ready to chime in, how can I help ?

  2. #12
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    Upstate NY - (nothing like NYC). In remote country with thousands of acres of hunting.
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    As I understand it, IDPA was designed to compete with the gun you carry, which is what I do. I've told my buddy, who is very competitive in IDPA, that his use of a larger stock Glock 35 for competition is kind of like "gameing" but this is an insulting word to use in this case, because if the handgun "fits in the box" used to measure handguns that qualify, then it is considered a legal competition handgun for IDPA. There are other requirements as well. Like a vast number of IDPA competitors who do not carry their competition gun, my buddy does not carry his 35....he carries his 27. He feels his 35 shoots exactly like his 27. I ask him why he does not compete with his 27 if this is true. The reality is that the shorter sight plane on the 27 will drop his scores. Bottom line is that the longer barrel and longer sight plane improves scores. I've been shooting my PM40 and my scores are lower than the gaming guns, but my scores continue to improve. This is my purpose with IDPA and proves to me that competing with my carry gun is making me better with it. However, I am quite certain that using my PM40 for competition will keep me from being a top shooter for a long time. As long as use other guys scores as targets to achieve and shoot for, I will keep improving with my carry gun. In this way, the IDPA is serving to improve my gun handling and accuracy with my carry gun.... and it's a lot of fun. To compete with subcompact carry guns, you can not get too wrapped up with your scores, other than to use them as references for your own improvement. Do your best and ignore the rest.
    My Sword - PM4044N/CTL/Talons
    - "One should diligently train at all times." Miyamoto Musashi
    - "Train in technique until it requires no thought - no mind and just happens." Takan Soho
    - "The truth beyond the technique....Here's where we stop thinking and start shooting." Brian Enos
    - "A single sword against the cold sky." Yamaoka Tesshu
    - "You must concentrate upon and consecrate yourself wholly to each day, as though a fire were raging in your hair."
    Taisen Deshimaru
    - "Know your sword!"

  3. #13

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    This thread is quite old, but I thought I'd add something just the same. IDPA is a game in the sense that we hope everyone abides by the rule book, shoots their best, displays good sportsmanship and safety and has a good time.

    There's nothing wrong, to my mind, in doing anything and everything you can, within both the spirit and the rules, to win a match...if that's exciting and fun for you. It's a competition, and it's the right place for highly-competitive people and not-so-competitive folks, as well.

    There's also nothing wrong with simply using IDPA matches to develop and sharpen skills that you might feel are good skills to have--for self defense or just for fun. So, in this case it may be far more important to you to shoot your carry weapon even if it isn't so competitive at the game.

    I do both. I mostly shoot a very-much non-carry 40SW in ESP division because it's simply a lot of fun to shoot and I do well with it. From time to time, I take my compact 45 and shoot CDP division, where I don't do quite so well. But I go into that match simply wanting to do as good as I can with my carry gun--not take the win in CDP.

    What's nice is that I find that my scores improve when I keep focused and don't do dumb things. I think learning to shoot quickly while staying focused and avoiding dumb things is useful in personal defense as well.
    “If I had to live my life again, I'd make the same mistakes, only sooner.” T Bankhead
    NRA Patron Member
    US Air Force 1975-1996

  4. #14
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    Upstate NY - (nothing like NYC). In remote country with thousands of acres of hunting.
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    I totally agree with you Bongo Boy. I've been using my PM40 but progress is slow and the gun has some handicaps (low capacity with a number of mag changes to slow me down; short sight radius making longer distances less accurate; looooong trigger pull; etc... I continue to make progress but sometimes question recommendations that I would make quicker progress with scores using a longer slide gun. Soooo, I took the advice and just purchased a 5" barrel gun with fiber optic front sight, a different trigger and etc... I may even carry it at times. It will allow me to compete AND go back and forth with my CCW to see how much my scores improve by working out some BUGS I have in myself.

    I think learning to shoot quickly while staying focused and avoiding dumb things is useful in personal defense as well.
    I could not agree with you more. I am trying to get rid of some dumb things so my personal defense is improved. Dumb things about me and not my PM40. Right now it is hard to tell the differenct, but I think a competition gun will sort this out quickly. Thanks for the input.
    My Sword - PM4044N/CTL/Talons
    - "One should diligently train at all times." Miyamoto Musashi
    - "Train in technique until it requires no thought - no mind and just happens." Takan Soho
    - "The truth beyond the technique....Here's where we stop thinking and start shooting." Brian Enos
    - "A single sword against the cold sky." Yamaoka Tesshu
    - "You must concentrate upon and consecrate yourself wholly to each day, as though a fire were raging in your hair."
    Taisen Deshimaru
    - "Know your sword!"

  5. #15

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    You get what you want out of IDPA. If you want to have a high score, most will have to use a gun that maxes out the rules. If you want to practice with your real carry gun good for you and I hope some of the other shooters notice. At my local matches out of 50 shooters probably 5 at most are using their carry gun.
    Personally, I don't think that the PM/CM guns are the best choices for the types of scenarios that are in an IDPA match (multiple targets, multiple rounds each, can't retreat, etc). But I think that my CM9 is the best pocket carry gun I've had...

  6. #16

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    There may be some subtle and even unimportant distinctions here, but I believe the IDPA rulebook includes some language that attempts to explain the philosophy and some of the practical decisionmaking issues that the founders ran into early on.

    Porting is specifically mentioned in this context--that is, there's a very brief comment or two in there somewhere that I interpret to mean they had to pick some point as an arbitrary 'cut off' for modifications. My impression is that they are acknowledging that their decisions were not all easy, nor were they necessarily much more than reaching a point where they had to 'call it', one way or the other.

    Some comments here sort of suggest there are 'carry' guns and 'gaming' guns in IDPA, and the IDPA would strongly disagree, I think. While they may allow guns most of us would not choose to carry, they specifically disallow gear that is considered designed specifically for competition. Now, that's a pretty broad stroke there--but it does express the philosophy. You will not see any gear in IDPA that cannot or would not be carried concealed and is not concealable.

    While few would fit a self-defense concealed carry gun with a mag well, the allowed mag well is at least restricted to something not intended to assist with an engine oil change.

    I'd expect that, if a large portion of commonly available handguns were offered stock with ported barrels, then one day ported barrels would be allowed in IDPA. While they represent a relatively expensive modification offering a sensible shooter advantage, they will not be allowed I expect. The idea, as mentioned above, was to get away from the gear race.

    Following the rules in both the letter and the spirit is not gaming, IMO. Even when we try to find 'IDPA' loads to reduce time to target recovery, so long as we keep the power factor above the floor, we're not 'gaming' anything. We have chosen to play a game rather than emphasize 'practical', but again, the IDPA wanted to ensure everyone could play with factory stock gear, guns and ammo.

    As APSKahr said, you get what you want out of this game and I think that's okay. Local USPSA and not-so-local IDPA matches are the only opportunity I have to shoot on the move, shoot from behind cover, and shoot under stress. Those factors make it valuable to me far in excess of where I end up on the scoreboard. But, I sure as hell have no plans to end up at the bottom of the scoreboard, either.

    Shooting accurately and quickly puts me exactly where I want to be: taking good shots with less hesitation, unimpeded by distraction, and with a keen eye out for what I'm going to hit when I press the trigger. Surprisingly, this gets me into the upper 20% of the pack, generally, regardless of what I'm shooting. I forget to take a target, forget to use my sights, forget to take cover--I get pinged for it. What's not to like?

    I kinda like it because in many cases it's a bunch of folks from 14 to 84 out there trying to learn to use their weapons better than they do, and I think just about all of them learn something. The equipment rules are almost inconsequential to the value this game can provide for 93% of all shooters.

    APSKahr has encouraged me to seriously consider taking 150 rds or real ammo to my next match, using the holster I really carry, and wearing the clothing I really wear. How many times do you draw your carry gun from under your sweater and winter coat? Is there a less painful way to find out it takes you 3 seconds to draw your gun in reality, instead of the bogus times you get when you practice in the basement with your skin tight sport shirt or maybe your shoot-me-first vest?

    IDPA might be the perfect place to take a lower score as your only penalty for discovering you can't even get your gun out of your real carry holster.
    “If I had to live my life again, I'd make the same mistakes, only sooner.” T Bankhead
    NRA Patron Member
    US Air Force 1975-1996

  7. #17

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    Very good points Bongo. I kind of wish, but understand why they don't, allow pocket carry in IDPA matches since that's how I usually carry. The BUG stages that some clubs have are probably closer to the types of scenarios that most CCW would encounter. No biggie, I have IDPA targets and stands, a timer, and setup my own scenarios at the range.
    Check out the IDPA journal 2012 Nationals write up. You can see the number/type of guns used by the competitors and what people say they actually carry.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    Upstate NY - (nothing like NYC). In remote country with thousands of acres of hunting.
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    Excellent points BongoBoy. I understand what you are saying and agree totally. I inappropriately made the distinction between carry and gaming and did not really mean it that way. In fact, I recently purchased another gun to be more competitive (score) and to help me develop my shooting skills which I hope will translate to improved shooting with my carry gun. I am simply going to have fun with the IDPA game and enjoy the progress and set backs along the way. Thanks for your excellent comments.
    My Sword - PM4044N/CTL/Talons
    - "One should diligently train at all times." Miyamoto Musashi
    - "Train in technique until it requires no thought - no mind and just happens." Takan Soho
    - "The truth beyond the technique....Here's where we stop thinking and start shooting." Brian Enos
    - "A single sword against the cold sky." Yamaoka Tesshu
    - "You must concentrate upon and consecrate yourself wholly to each day, as though a fire were raging in your hair."
    Taisen Deshimaru
    - "Know your sword!"

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    42

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    Keep in mind that although IDPA is believed to be about shooting what you carry and tactical, the facts are it was invented, and is owned by, one of the greatest IPSC shooters ever (even before USPSA), and that is Bill Wilson. He and his buddies cooked up the rules way back in 1997, and they are pretty much just opposite of USPSA rules today. Here is a great read.

    http://www.frontsightmagazine.org/ar...6featuresm.pdf

    If you want to shoot your every carry gun, like in my case a G19 from an IWB holster under a t shirt, I can only do so well as opposed to shooting my G34 from an OWB holster and a photographers vest

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by garyb View Post
    ...I recently purchased another gun to be more competitive (score) and to help me develop my shooting skills which I hope will translate to improved shooting with my carry gun. I am simply going to have fun with the IDPA game and enjoy the progress and set backs along the way.
    Good for you. It IS fun, but at the same time it's pretty good at transforming the way you think about shooting, and the way you shoot. IDPA scoring attempts to penalize sloppy shooting, yet it definitely rewards speed. This is good--you MUST hit your target, but there's no Brownie Points for the 'x-ring'. There's a stiff penalty for spraying and praying, and no reward at all for standing around and lining up perfect shots. Actually, there's quite a penalty for 'standing around'.

    It's useful, and an absolute blast.
    “If I had to live my life again, I'd make the same mistakes, only sooner.” T Bankhead
    NRA Patron Member
    US Air Force 1975-1996

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