Mitch Rosen   Tommy Gun Shop   Tommy Gun   Crimsontrace
Page 2 of 19 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 190

Thread: Chambering the first round, a slingshot modification

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Near the Gila Mountains in SW AZ.
    Posts
    5,468

    Default

    OK folks, here's how I did it (it's not a "how to do it", so proceed with caution and at your own risk if decide to attempt something similar)
    Note!: While I'm very pleased with the results of these mods, some folks have tried modifying the follower (though not exactly as I did) and not had the same results (to varying degrees). It could be that I just encountered a "perfect storm" with this mod and my particular gun. If you attempt something similar please keep this in mind and be sure to read their posts.

    First off I want to give some credit where it is due. Iím sure many here have seen this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPa3MtWkias
    Basically, the maker of it suggests the use of a ProMag magazine to facilitate loading the first round from a magazine.

    I finally acquired a ProMag (thanks Jim) for a little hands on research. ProMag has something of a less than stellar reputation on the internet. Iím not going to try and change that because, after seeing this magazine, I believe itís warranted. I do need to mention that this magazine was used, so read the following with that in mind. My ProMag is a ten round magazine; I found the spring is totally inadequate for that configuration. To compound this, the follower is rough and oversize. The magazine would only feed two rounds before a nose dive stoppage on the third round. However, it did feed the first round easily; now is that because of the loose spring tension (my Kahr will usually feed without issue from a downloaded magazine) or something else. After a little comparison, I decided to eliminate the magazine tube from the equation and opted to try the ProMag follower in a Kahr magazine. My first thought here was use the Kahr spring, but it will not work with the follower unless the follower is modified to accept it. Speaking of modifications, the follower needs to sanded on it sides and rear to function without binding in the Kahr tube. I tried installing the follower with the ProMag spring and was able to fit it all in the Kahr magazine tube. This combination allowed for a capacity of 7 rounds (just like a complete Kahr unit). It also put the rounds under much more spring tension. Bench testing confirmed that the top round still fed easily and that the follower would lock the slide back. Testing in the field, the magazine functioned without issue. If the ProMag spring will hold up, I believe this is a viable modification as is.

    Here's the ProMag follower/spring in a Kahr tube at work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYYZrSqGTdk

    Iím not inclined to trust that spring; beside that, Iím not sure where to find a replacement if need should arise.
    As it did put comparable (to an OEM magazine) pressure on the top round, I decided that the follower is the reason this all works. Now, I probably could modify the follower to work with the Kahr spring and be done with it, but after some study thought I could modify the Kahr follower to work and eliminate the need to buy extra parts.

    What I did to the Kahr follower requires a pencil and some sand paper.

    There is a transition point on the Kahr follower where the front portion of the feed surface slopes downward from the rear section. I decided this needs to be reduced and moved forward. I did this by wrapping the pencil in sandpaper and sanding along the rear plane of the follower maintaining it original angle. This did not totally solve the feeding issue, but perhaps it might if you took it further than I did. Then again, you risk sanding through the top of the follower. Next, I sanded the top of the follower, reducing the two ridges there. I did this by laying the sandpaper on a flat surface and sanding the top by moving the follower (again maintaining the existing angle). Now weíre cooking! Bench testing results were great as the top round feeds much easier than the stock configuration and there is no change to how the slide locks back. My previous video shows how it works, but here's another where I somewhat ride the slide home:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogM036r016M

    How to sand:

    How much to sand with the pencil backed sandpaper:

    How much to sand using a flat surface (remove just under .06"). I suggest repeated testing as material is removed to preclude manufacturing tolerances causing any issues) :

    Finished:

    For comparison:


    Update - I had an interesting development:
    "... I had both mags apart yesterday and upon reassembly, both required brisk manipulation to feed hollow point (no more riding the slide). I was dumbfounded by this development, but figured it had to be something I had done. A quick checked showed that everything looked good (parts were clean and installed correctly with the springs properly orientated). I decided to flip ends of the springs and was back in business after doing this. While this worked, I've no clue why other than there is the slightest difference between ends of the springs (and on both springs). The end that seems to have a less steep angle on the last coil needed to be at the follower. I'm going to follow this up when the new springs arrive."

    So for now, I'm pleased with my modified mags, but want to do more testing. (as of 5-27, make that "very pleased" )
    Regards,
    Greg
    Last edited by gb6491; 05-02-2020 at 10:43 PM.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,374

    Default

    So you used all Kahr parts for the modification or a mix of Kahr and ProMag?

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Near the Gila Mountains in SW AZ.
    Posts
    5,468

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71 View Post
    So you used all Kahr parts for the modification or a mix of Kahr and ProMag?
    My apologies for not being clearer. There are actually two possible modifications described in my post:
    The first involves a Kahr magazine tube with a ProMag follower and magazine. This is pretty much just a parts swap (the exception being that the follower made need some fitting).

    Everything (text, photos, and link) found below where I wrote in bold "What I did to the Kahr follower requires a pencil and some sand paper." describes a mod using only Kahr parts. This mod does require work be done to the Kahr follower.

    Regards,
    Greg

  4. #14
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    N. CA
    Posts
    20

    Default

    Greg thank you for taking the time to post this. Thank you also for not being satisfied with things as they were, despite the fact that some almost seem to disapprove of such dissatisfaction.

    What you have done sounds like just the sort of thing that ought to already have happened long ago in a conscientiously engineered product. Being able to chamber a round by racking the slide is crucial to speed in malfunction clearance and speed is everything in a gunfight.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    275

    Default

    Thanks for the effeort that went into giving us this - It looks like it would be worth doing and the maximum "risk" is only a follower!

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,374

    Default

    Thanks for the clarification... Any idea if this works for the 6 round magazine as well, it seems your first video shows the 6 round failing followed by samples using a 7 round magazine.

  7. #17

    Default

    I have no problem feeding a live round with my K9 by racking the slide even when brand new. Just make sure to pull the slide all the way back until it can go back no further. You can hear the noise of the barrel hit the cam surface. One of the easiest ways to rack it is to grasp the slide with the thumb and forefinger of the nonshooting hand. Push the shooting hand forward as far as possible and release the slide to chamber a cartridge. Because of the heavy recoil spring, it is easier to work the slide by pushing forward on the frame than by pulling back on the slide.
    BTW, my K9 no longer has issue with premature slide lock and the recoil is softer with new slide stop, and recoil spring that Kahr sent me.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Near the Gila Mountains in SW AZ.
    Posts
    5,468

    Default

    Thanks folks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71 View Post
    Thanks for the clarification... Any idea if this works for the 6 round magazine as well, it seems your first video shows the 6 round failing followed by samples using a 7 round magazine.
    I see no reason that it should not work for the 6 round magazine. In regards to the video, the first magazine in the sequence is a 7 rounder with a metal base plate. It is also unmodified. I included it to show what the issue is. Sorry for any confusion that caused.

    In the little bit I've carried these magazines with modified followers, I've not had any issues with the top round dislodging. While I don't have enough experience with them to be convinced they will solve the lost round issue some have experienced, I'm convinced they hold the round better than the stock follower does.
    Regards,
    Greg

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,374

    Default

    Sorry for all the questions, but in your honest opinion - which option do you think is best, the modified Kahr follower or using the ProMag parts?

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Near the Gila Mountains in SW AZ.
    Posts
    5,468

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71 View Post
    Sorry for all the questions, but in your honest opinion - which option do you think is best, the modified Kahr follower or using the ProMag parts?
    I'm not enamored with the ProMag spring and I like that the Kahr follower has a metal insert on the slide stop shelf. There is risk to modifying the Kahr follower (you could ruin it) and you can avoid that by using the ProMag parts.
    All that said, I've went with the modified Kahr follower and all Kahr parts for my magazines. That's not meant to discount the ProMag /Kahr setup as it did function without issue.
    Regards,
    Greg
    Last edited by gb6491; 05-22-2011 at 12:01 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Xssights   Kahr Shop   CrossBreed Holsters   Magnum Research new