Magazine Disconnect Safties???

[MW surveyor]

Man, I gotta stay up later!

I believe tv's statement was partially made in jest and partly the possible result in the antis way of thinking as a way to get rid of civilian gun ownership.

This is all from me. I don't have a dog in this hunt with the exception of how the results of a gun modification could be used against you in a court of law. Remember that the laws are not enforced for justice but whatever interpretation that may happen in a particular case.

[500KV]

I’m not a huge fan of a loaded gun giving a false negative to the shooter. A gun with a round in the chamber and the magazine removed IS still loaded, but unable to fire, but will suddenly become “hot” with the introduction of an empty magazine, or the failure of the disconnect.
There is just no way this feature can be considered good.

[Indigo]

If I had a nickel for every time someone on here passionately tried to convince others their way of doing things was right and changed people's minds then I guess I'd have zero nickels. What you are calling facts are just mere observations subject to personal bias. Watch your step getting off that soapbox.

[CS534]

Magazine safeties to prevent ad's or nd's, or thumb safeties to prevent the same. A heavy trigger pull, or long double action. My friends, my fellow brothers of liberty and freedoms, we are losing sight of the real issues here: training. The first basic rules of handling a firearm, the 4 rules of gun safety, and repetition and practice with your weapon. Those are the safeties that every gun needs to be handled with. Unless one is trained properly and is totally aware of the powers and outcomes of handling firearms, accicents can and will occur.

Each of us have our own feelings about gun control, safeties and such. I know I have mine. But, opinions are just that. They are freedoms to be expressed amongst others. They are shared so others can view your insight. They are that and only that. Once your points are made, and if made with conviction and logic, they deserve respect. I appreciate all of the inputs on this forum. I am confident that I will use each and every one of them to form my own opinion to share with you.

[ripley16]

I'm somewhat neutral on the subject in that I neither need nor want any safety on a firearm other than a drop safety, but use pistols that have these features. The few pistols I have with magazine disconnects annoy me at times when handling them, but the annoyance is easily remmedied by inserting a mag.

Whether a pistol has a disconnect or not shouldn't matter in the case of unintentionally shooting one. If a person is careless enough to not clear a deadly weapon, then IMO, no mechanical safety made is protection from stupidity.

I know many people carry reloads. I don't, so whether the gun will fire with or without a magazine is a moot point in my case. The mag stays in no matter what. If I run out of ammo, then the mag makes the gun that much heavier a club with which to smack an adversary.

I prefer as few safeties as possible. Having said that, I confess I carried a Beretta 84 for many years, and it is loaded with safeties. The Beretta's unbreakable nature and perfect performance overroad my distaste for safety features. Safeties or not, a perfectly competent firearm is the most important feature.

Each person needs to find their own comfort zone and stay within it's boundaries. Proficiency and familiarity with one's choice of firearm are the most important factors in remaining safe, IMHO.

[CJB]

Its somewhat interesting to note - The first US Army "Description, Pistol, Model 1911" (from pre-WWI) fully advocated carrying the pistol cocked, with the safety applied. Later, in the WWII era and later, the US Army advocated carrying the pistol uncocked on a loaded chamber, by lowering the hammer after loading. And now days, the practice of civilian shooters tends to be an increasing number of them carrying cocked, with the safety applied. From horseback to HumVee - things go full circle it seems.

[CJB]

I never recommend semi-autos for use by women.

Eleven years of range duty told me that a good majority of females do not have the strength, or dexterity for certain firearms.

The tip-barrel Beretta automatics, being double action, having a tip barrel, do not require racking the slide, and given proper training, those seemed to do well for females (and some males) with hand strength and dexterity deficiency.

Similarly, I have advocated hammerless, double action only, revolvers for the same group. The problem being, an external hammer revolver, once cocked, must be safely decocked if one intends to not shoot it. Some folks have a real problem with that, and if they do, the exposed hammer revolver is not for them.

The AD/NDs cited, were all ND's. Negligent operation of the mechanism resulted in an unexpected discharge. AD's are more like - holstering discharges, the infamous S&W dirty safety discharge (while dropping hammer with the decocking safety), or while trying to manually lower the hammer on a Browning HP or 1911, that sort of thing. Racking the slide, then removing the (loaded) magazine is not an accident. Its stupidity, idiocy, or at best, a total lapse in the required attention needed when performing a potentially lethal maneuver. In short - those folks has S..T for brains, at least momentarily. No safety will help folks like that. The same group is also prone to the "I though the safety was on" type of ND. How the military, or PD's, deal with the cross segment of the populace, which must include those idiots, as their own membership, is beyond me. No amount of rule making, supervision, or training will totally eliminate the mechanically inept from doing something that has bad consequences.

[O'Dell]

There is no law saying I cant modify my gun as I see fit. Please name me one case where a person was charged with a crime because they used a gun that had been modified in self defense.

Whether the modification was a lighter trigger, disabling safeties, or what-have-you. Please cite one reputable source where the shoot was justified, but the shooter served time because of the modifications he did to his gun.

Maybe, MAYBE, I could understand your point if I did something like modify my glock 17 into a full auto glock 18 without a permit. But any other modification could easily be justified by any half witted lawyer.

Lets take your example of a 2 pound trigger. Say the prosecutor brings to light your ultra easy to use "hair finger kill trigger," the argument against that would be that it doesn't matter if the trigger is 20 pounds or 2; either way it needed to be pulled to kill the bad guy; so ease of pulling it does not matter. Unless he would have been 18 pounds less dead with the heavy trigger or something??

Same with the disconnect. The magazine was going to be in the gun no matter what if the guy was shot dead right (esp if more then one shot was used)? So what should it matter if I disabled a safety that was going to be disabled by default any way when I pulled the trigger and emptied my magazine in his chest?

Face it, you said it yourself, you were a Army man and a LEO, not a judge or a lawyer. You have no idea if those things would put me in a hot spot in court; thats just what you THINK might happen...Unless like I said earlier you can cite me a concrete example of such an incident.

First off I agree with Jocko - it's a "to each his own" issue. Personally, a disconnect safety doesn't bother me except in the case of the Hi-Power I bought 45 years ago and never shoot. I am use to thumb safeties and I actual prefer them if given a choice such as in my M&P, but again, I am used to them. All things considered, I would not eliminate a purchase because of the absence of one.

Second, I am or was a lawyer, but I quit the law twenty years ago. I do not recall a case involving the absence of a safety or a modified gun resulting in a problem for a shooter, but gun cases were much rarer back then. I do recall several ridiculous verdicts involving defense attorneys and prosecutors though. One in California [of course] involved a teenager stealing a motorcycle from a carport. He had never ridden a bike before, and predictably fell off soon after and was badly injured. His lawyer sued Honda and Bell Helmets, then a major player, even though he stole the bike, was inexperienced, and was not wearing a helmet. He won the case against Bell, because the court ruled that Bell should have advised him to wear a helmet. WHAT!!! He also won against Honda, but I don't remember the exact ruling. Fortunately, common sense won out in the end under appeal, but it goes to show what can happen.

[jocko]

O'dell, civil suits as u know are alot different tha criminal. If a ol lady can buy a cup of hot coffee at McDonalds and then spill it in her lap and then sue because it was to hot,, well u get my point.
When I had my motorcycle wreck last sept, I had 3 unsloicited contacts from attorneys I never heard of wanting to talok to me about my accident. To this day I have no idea how they even found out about it as it never even made the papers.

when I sent my M & P into Dasvid Bowie of Bowie tactical, supposably one of the best Smith guru's around, He call ed me and said, u didn't mention in ur instruction about taking out the mag disconnet. AII had not given it any thought, His comment was u don't want that fokking thing in this gun. So I said OK. He did send back all the parts. I have no idea why I told him that either, as I had not had one issue with the disconnect for any reasons, but I went along with the "guru".

Sometimes I think the biggest disconnect is WHAT IS BETWEEN OUR EARS. These gun companies more than likely don't want to put all those safety thingS in their guns but with todays litigators and many people who really should not be owning a gun, they error on the side of caution.

This newer generation of gun owners, like my son will accept these changes, for they know not better, so for them and certainly for women, they probably welcome those features. Most of us are older in lfe and todays technology and kids today are passing us faster than we can fart. Hel lI do good to just work my computer to get on these damn gun forums, where as my son could build a computer. Such is life. I am 67 he is 23, alot of water has went over the damn in my 44 years of living when he was not even thought about. Almost like alot of war stories, just something we don't talk about to the younger generation, for basically THEY JUST DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT... Hell my dad used to tell me about the great depression and how he would go to the landfills and look for discarded old tires that he could fix up and maybe get 50-100 miles out of it before it went sour for good. I found that very hard to understand as I was not a depression eria child.

Now I am beginning to sound like Deitrich, "RAMBLING"

[Bawanna]

We have an attorneys office that has a constant public information request for every accident report we create. Every single one.

They somehow publish this information (sell it) to other ambulance chasers to look for potential cases.

The leader had some health problems apparently and it stopped for a few years but recently it started up again. It's a pain to make copies even though we just do it as we process since we know it's coming.

I'm so ticked I got a supoena to testify in a stolen gun possesion case. Happened once before. I told them I'd never inspect another gun for that purpose. They promised me this time I wouldn't be called. All it is for is to tell them its a functioning firearm. I wrote a detailed report. The defense attorney can read it, the judge can read it. But NOOOOO I gotta drive half an hour and spend a couple hours sitting outside a court room to be called in and say yes it's a working gun. The judge will dimiss me in two minutes and do the drive back to work.

Frontier justice just sounds appealing to me.