Stopping the slide/bolt from going back in special circumstances: Good/bad/ugly?

[Scoundrel]

I do not yet have a Ruger 10/22, so I can't test this. I figured I should ask the question first anyway.

I've seen YouTube videos indicating that if you hold the slide firmly in place with your off hand while you fire a semi-automatic pistol, it does not hurt you or damage the gun. The slide simply stays put, and then you can manually rack it.

Now, I see little or no point to doing this with a hand-sides semi-auto pistol. I mention it only as a reference leading up to my question.

2nd supporting reference: I have heard it said that bolt action rifles can be more accurate than semi-auto rifles, because there is no "extra" movement within the gun. There is no bolt slamming backward and round being ejected, which can twitch the rifle ever so slightly and change the POI.

So here is the question:
If one is using a bench rest of bipod, so the off hand is free, could someone place that hand firmly behind the cocking handle of a 10/22, to help steady the gun and prevent that handle from moving backward while it is being fired?

I watched some YouTube vids and it looks like the cocking handle does move when it is fired (unlike the charging handle on an AR-style M&P 15/22, which stays put).

Would stopping this motion be likely to help any, or cause more of a twitch because of the force of the bolt attempting to move backward and being blocked?

Would this be likely to damage the gun?

In the case of having a suppressor attached, would it eliminate the noise of the action cycling?

It doesn't seem likely that a .22LR would have enough energy to damage someone's hand while attempting to do this.

What do you think?

[gb6491]

I think I'd go with an aftermarket device to accomplish that:
http://www.colossic.com/defenseproductboltlock.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-dKSs7ADFo
Not sure if this one is still being made:
http://www.silencerresearch.com/jg_bolt_lock.htm
Regards,
Greg

[Scoundrel]

Originally Posted by gb6491

I think I'd go with an aftermarket device to accomplish that:
http://www.colossic.com/defenseproductboltlock.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-dKSs7ADFo
Not sure if this one is still being made:
http://www.silencerresearch.com/jg_bolt_lock.htm
Regards,
Greg

Got the Colossic bolt lock. Discovered that it actually _reduces_ accuracy by a pretty large amount, at least on a Ruger Charger pistol with an 8" or 10" barrel.

I ran a bunch of tests with different barrel twists and ammo weights/velocities, and the problem was consistent across the board. I submitted my findings to Colossic, and they are considering putting a disclaimer on the website regarding short barrels. They think that the bolt being locked might increase pressure, causing stability issues in short barrels.

They also gave me an RMA number and will be refunding me for it. Great customer service!

I can post the pictures of my range testing if anyone's interested.

[CJB]

The 10/22 will never be as accurate as a bolt gun.

However, the 10/22 can be made into a fairly accurate rifle.

There are two main problems with the 10/22. One is the barrel attachment, the other is the way it can be bed to the stock. Even the most elaborate 10/22 bedding is a rather marginal affair. Somebody used to make a 10/22 receiver with a rear lug setup, I haven't seen those for a while (but neither have I looked). The threaded barrel receivers are much better too, because the barrel will remain square to the bolt.

I'm not sure what you can get in terms of accuracy from the 10/22. I've got a Kimber of Oregon "All American Match" that came with a 50yd test target with a less than .250" group. I really dont think that you'll get that sort of group from a 10/22.

I cant imagine the bolt locking affair to be more than icing on the cake - after barrel attachment, bedding, chamber, trigger, stock... etc etc. Thats where your accuracy come from (chamber especially, and then bedding/barrel attachment).

For my own 10/22, I'll be using stainless dust and AccraGlass gel to bond the action to the barrel. Its got a cleanout hole in the receiver, and the barrel will be removable IF NEEDED via application of heat from a hot air gun. Bedding... I'm not sure yet. Then again, its not going to be a real target rifle, only a fun little rifle that shoots better than average.

(some reading later) Bolt locks to deaden sound on silenced guns? That works for me!

[Scoundrel]

Originally Posted by CJB

I'll be using stainless dust and AccraGlass gel to bond the action to the barrel. Its got a cleanout hole in the receiver, and the barrel will be removable IF NEEDED via application of heat from a hot air gun. Bedding... I'm not sure yet.

I was reading about how Ruger has been gluing the barrels lately. One guy did a write-up with photos using a propane torch (said to strip it first so it's down to the receiver and barrel). I'm handy with a wrench and propane torch, but I'm a little nervous about this. I will need to swap the barrel because I've ordered a Green Mountain threaded barrel with a 1:9 twist so I can properly shoot the Aguila Sniper 60gr subsonic stuff with a suppressor on it.

I guess I can try this, being VERY careful with the flame. I don't have a heat gun. I do have a hair dryer. I guess I could go buy a heat gun, but I've never needed one before.

I don't think I'll glue the threaded barrel in because, depending how hard it is to swap them, I might want to put the stock one back on sometimes. I've heard that putting average .22LR (1235 fps, 36 grain) with a 1:9 barrel causes the bullet to spin itself apart and accuracy goes to hell. True/False?

[Scoundrel]

Thanks for the links! Interesting to find out how much the sound reduction is and that someone actually makes a product to get there.

Hmm. 10db reduction.

Sound energy goes on a logarithmic scale, so when it's already low, it's a diminishing effect. Reducing from 100db to 90db = BIG change. Reducing from 35db to 25db = barely noticeable.

Price for the product: $85 + $9 shipping.

Hmm. I may just do this. I mean, if I'm already shelling out the dough for a suppressor and tax stamp, threaded barrel to attach it to, a gun with a relatively quiet action to stick all of that onto, and a replacement hammer to lighten up the trigger pull, what's another $100 to go "all the way" and improve accuracy and reduce the noise at the same time?

[CJB]

False on the spin apart.

1:9 not the best for general accuracy, but not terrible. Stick to 40g bullets, as the 1:9 is made for the 60g projectile.

Hadn't heard that Ruger was gluing in barrels! I plan on a slurry of micro particles and AG. Very interesting indeed.

Harbor Freight has their $15 hot air gun for $8 right now..... I got one!

[Scoundrel]

Originally Posted by CJB

False on the spin apart.

1:9 not the best for general accuracy, but not terrible. Stick to 40g bullets, as the 1:9 is made for the 60g projectile.

Hadn't heard that Ruger was gluing in barrels! I plan on a slurry of micro particles and AG. Very interesting indeed.

Harbor Freight has their $15 hot air gun for $8 right now..... I got one!

I specifically want to shoot the 60gr. I have a bunch of them, and want to be able to spin them properly. Anyway, the threaded barrel comes with the 1:9, not a lot of choice from that vendor, but I was cool with it so I went for it. I also have 40gr sub-sonics so I will try them both out in the 1:9 barrel.

I'm not sure I understood you properly. So...

The 1:9 twist does not in fact mangle or overspin lighter, higher velocity bullets, reducing their accuracy?

Remember the info about Ruger gluing in the barrels was just something some dude wrote on the internet, and all of his pictures were broken links, so...

But I'll swing on over to HF and see about picking up one of them heat guns anyway. there have been times when I wanted to use one, ended up using propane instead and it worked OK, but...

[Scoundrel]

Originally Posted by Scoundrel

I specifically want to shoot the 60gr. I have a bunch of them, and want to be able to spin them properly. Anyway, the threaded barrel comes with the 1:9, not a lot of choice from that vendor, but I was cool with it so I went for it. I also have 40gr sub-sonics so I will try them both out in the 1:9 barrel.

I'm not sure I understood you properly. So...

The 1:9 twist does not in fact mangle or overspin lighter, higher velocity bullets, reducing their accuracy?

Remember the info about Ruger gluing in the barrels was just something some dude wrote on the internet, and all of his pictures were broken links, so...

But I'll swing on over to HF and see about picking up one of them heat guns anyway. there have been times when I wanted to use one, ended up using propane instead and it worked OK, but...

Update: My Charger pistol barrel was not glued in, unless you count where the paint from the receiver overlapped onto the very back of the barrel just a little bit.

Anyway, I just removed the two screws that go through the v-block and hold the barrel in, and then twisted while pulling. It didn't take a lot of force to break it loose, and then the barrel slid right out.

It looks like there was some factory oil in there, but it could have been CLP. It definitely was not glued. I don't think I'll glue the match barrel in place. Mainly what I want from that barrel is the threading, and the 1:9 twist. I don't need glue and bedding - I suspect the limiting factor on its accuracy will be ME.

I like the idea of being able to easily remove the barrel for cleaning.

[Scoundrel]

Originally Posted by Scoundrel

I specifically want to shoot the 60gr. I have a bunch of them, and want to be able to spin them properly. Anyway, the threaded barrel comes with the 1:9, not a lot of choice from that vendor, but I was cool with it so I went for it. I also have 40gr sub-sonics so I will try them both out in the 1:9 barrel.

I'm not sure I understood you properly. So...

The 1:9 twist does not in fact mangle or overspin lighter, higher velocity bullets, reducing their accuracy?

Remember the info about Ruger gluing in the barrels was just something some dude wrote on the internet, and all of his pictures were broken links, so...

But I'll swing on over to HF and see about picking up one of them heat guns anyway. there have been times when I wanted to use one, ended up using propane instead and it worked OK, but...

OK, so the GM barrel with the 1:9 twist arrived, and I took it to the range.

I get pretty good accuracy with the 40 grain sub-sonics. I am pretty sure the limiting factor is me, and I have some work to do, mainly in holding the gun steady.

But I found that the 60 grain Aguila rounds still tumble and make keyholes at 25 yards. I suspect it's because the barrel is only 8 inches. I suspect that in order to stabilize those 60 grain rounds, you need a 1:9 twist AND a full length barrel. Bummer, that.

So now I am considering what to do next.

The main reason I bought the GM barrel was because it is threaded, so I can put a suppressor on it later. I know I could have gotten the stock barrel threaded, but did not want to be without a barrel in the meantime.

The ability to shoot the 60 grain stuff was a secondary objective, and an optional one.

The GM barrel is heavier, which is good from a recoil perspective.
The GM barrel is 2 inches shorter than the stock barrel, which is bad from an accuracy perspective.

I think the next thing to do is work on shooting a lot of the 4-grain sub-sonics through both barrels, to determine which one shoots them better. Then if I find that the 1:16 10-inch barrel shoots the 40 grain sub-sonic just as well as the 1:9 8-inch barrel, I might just send the stock barrel off to be threaded.

Who does decent quality, inexpensive barrel threading?
I called a local gunsmith, but the conversation did not inspire confidence.

Or, who makes a 10-12 inch 10/22 blue threaded barrel for less than $150?